ReadMeLattice

I totally agree. Debra was always enormously abusive and just holds it back now because Farrah pays for her plastic surgery. I'll never forget in 16&P when Debra screamed at Farrah that she had an Antichrist attitude before smacking her on national TV. Because assault is Christian. #crazyeyes

It's such a good point that she makes her $ off of Cate. Same thing with any parent on here who's bitchy to their kid. Really? Where does your paycheck come from?

Mic drop

I never understand these girls writing these love notes like their love is something incredible. Aren't they just sort of together like tons of other couples? Taylor isn't even all that nice and had to be coaxed into marrying her. I'm sure you care about each other but this isn't the love story of the ages.

Omg amazing. No, it's legal.

Catelynn did apologize to Farrah for the things she said, which was a little better I guess. Amber never said anything except that with her life, she really can't judge. She has her moments. I totally agree about Maci's validation addiction. She's not smart enough to recognize hypocrisy, but she knew that if she made some fakey "stance" she could be rewarded with validation of her moral "superiority" from her fans.

I actually don't think Tyler is gay. I saw a smile on his face in that strip club scene I've never seen him have elsewhere. I think he secretly probably watches porn and is into stereotypical "hot" chicks but knows it would've made him look shitty to leave Catelynn for one. I think he just seems gay because he's so in love with himself and isn't very "macho." In a different cultural context, he'd likely have been an emo kid or a preppy narcissist.

I actually thought Dr. Jenn's pieces of advice themselves were good. No one will deal with someone who acts that aggressive and insane. But it's also pretty messed up, as she said, to sort of insinuate you have a future together, which he's doing by even entertaining the ring thing or discussing its price, if you have no intention of doing so. If this was a random couple not in a sequined jumpsuit and not with that level of ugly cry, I'd say that advice wasn't the worst. But what makes it totally ridiculous is that their entire relationship is obviously a joke or an act for the cameras, or some sort of two sided arrangement, and Dr. Jenn is entertaining it as if it's some actual thing. She is so not an actual therapist.

Kristina is really pretty. I hadn't paid much attention before but she is really naturally beautiful.

"Get your ass up"-- says Tyler. Ugh. So you can what? Whine about Carly's parents for the cameras some more? Doesn't understand depression but also doesn't WANT to understand. And like others said, what is he-- a go-getter? He admits fully he doesn't really help with Nova, then claims that Cate is lazy. So what does that make him?! What a selfish, lame-ass kid. Can't stand his self righteous mom, either. Lol at Maci's insistence that her family would be appalled by a courthouse wedding. Yes, you're OH so traditional, Maci. And Taylor is such a good working man. So sick of her trying to uphold these archetypes.

I know. The only time I've ever come close to that was when I was seriously depressed, and even then I always worked full time and saw friends. Holy shit, what if you did that much nothing *on purpose?* Don't they only film for like 2 weeks though?

Yeah, I feel for Kail and Cate in that they did the same thing and it's REALLY hard not to trust your mother (as someone who had an abusive parent I totally understand the deep desire to trust and never give up), but when you're involving your kids you have to somehow put that child who longs not to be abused or disappointed again aside and put your own kids first.

I also don't necessarily feel sympathy for Farrah. I just believe Debra was brandishing a knife and threatening people with it, and committed a crime.

Sure, but she was a lot younger then. Farrah is crazy, but that doesn't make Debra less of an abuser. I thought she was an abuser since the first episode of 16& Pregnant. She hit Farrah on television and was all crazy-eyed with the hyper-Christian emotional abuse (while clearly not actually being a Christian). Both of them are deeply damaged. I think Farrah likely has some kind of personality disorder like BPD but I've always thought Debra had BPD or NPD as well. That's the usual way of things. I don't think someone being an abuser means their victim is perfect or not crazy, not abusive themselves, etc. It just means they're an abuser. It doesn't absolve anybody else of anything. And Debra is one by all accounts. I think she'd abuse anyone around her and I think she's an addict. That doesn't say anything about Farrah being good.

Yeah, again, I don't like her. I just truly cannot stand Maci. She grates on me to no end. I don't think I'll be able to watch her wedding. #yikes @Tatum, it haunts my nightmares. aaahhhh

TMI but I'd assume Jenelle likes to get roughed up in bed. That photo posted of Adam a while back suggested that Adam prefers a woman with some, uh...dominant tendencies..... Yeah, I don't think Amber is a good mom at all, she's awful. I guess I just see her statements like that as more of a defense mechanism whereas Maci truly buys her own bullshit. I do give her props for choosing prison, I actually think that deserves some degree of respect instead of the fakey rehabs they all go to. Like, Amber is a POS but I actually believe she sort of knows it, and she has openly talked about what a huge drug addict she was. Matt is sort of stumping her growth and enabling her now. She was on a better path before. It's really not about liking Amber, I just really really really can't with Maci. Especially after this season and the horrible fake surprise at the ultrasound. Ugh. The " I'm just a lil ol respectable Southern girl y'all!!!" act just grates on me. Everyone's irritated by something different but Maci just pushes my buttons.

Yeah, if I organized them by parenting, Amber would definitely be way below Maci, that's for sure. But I have seen Amber take responsibility for her addiction on multiple occasions in ways that Maci never will for having multiple kids out of wedlock while making money preaching abstinence and birth control to teens, and for drinking heavily while pregnant and asking us to believe she was an innocent girl who had no idea. It's hard to parse, but personally I just really can't stand Maci. The self righteous holier-than-thou act personally irritates me more than people who play the victim. Amber clearly has low self-esteem while Maci thinks VERY highly of herself for no reason.

Yeah, I really can't stand Maci. Farrah and Amber are trashy and bitchy but at least Farrah didn't have another kid and makes her own money, and Amber went to prison and seems somewhat accountable for some of her actions. Maci, to me, is a huge hypocrite and very self-righteous. She's also highly dishonest. Keeps herself "above" the others while being anything but. That's a pet peeve for me. Both Farrah and Amber also get fewer hate points simply because they seem to be able to keep a fucking IUD inside themselves for more than an hour. I'd way rather someone shove their butt in my face or just be like "yep I was a drug addict" than faux-whine about their grandma/their respectability and becoming an "honest woman" while faking that she didn't know she was pregnant so she could drink, and pushing an unwilling partner into marriage. Way trashier imo. Taylor would be around the same level. Adam is a sociopath just like Jenelle. They'd actually make a good couple. Like Harley Quinn and the Joker.

Yeah, but that doesn't make Debra less crazy or less of an alcoholic. I have no doubt she really had a knife out when the police came. Her excuse was "she was cooking"-- yeahhhh ok.

True. I wonder why, exactly. Because she exposed him for who he was, maybe? I've got to say, Adam is pretty high up there on my list of TM hates, which is something like this: Adam/Jenelle/Nathan Maci/Tyler/Matt/Dr Drew (quite a close second) Kail/Farrah/Javi/Amber/Leah Cate/Corey Chelsea/Cole

I think the animal abuse might get to me the most. The vast majority of people have watched porn. The way I see it, if you or anyone you've dated has watched porn and you've had no issue with it, you also can't have a problem with someone being in it, since there wouldn't be jobs for those folks without you/your partner. Which ends up meaning the vast majority of people who bitch and moan about "sluts" in porn are hypocrites. Really, Maci, Taylor doesn't watch porn? Riiiight.

Neither Cate nor Tyler is exceptionally bright, but Cate is very caring (could have been an aide, a daycare worker etc) and Tyler could have learned some sort of remodeling skill-- tiling, whatever--and had a business. Either one could have worked retail. It's not easy to get those jobs, though, especially in Michigan where the economy has tanked. You've got to have some sort of degree or skill/experience to stand out.

I don't care what Debra says, she clearly has some kind of domestic violence problem. She hit Farrah when she knew for a fact she was on camera...come on, we're really supposed to believe she didn't do worse off camera?

To be fair, I don't think he was a prophet, just projecting :P He was right about Jenelle and the others but damn, way to describe yourself, dude!

Matt is a Lifetime movie in motion.