ReadMeLattice

@EmeraldGirl, wow, she was actually quite pretty.

Jenelle came off as far nicer in this episode. Fuck Nathan for ignoring Jace. Leah, the producers didn't *make* you look like a druggie...

Christina is a class act, honestly. Gary grew on me, he used to have some issues with passive aggression and he seemed very immature. I also didn't like that he flirted with Amber after getting with Christina. Disrespectful. But I think she's had a good influence on him.

I used to be Mormon. I don't think Mykelti or Maddie is lying. The Mormon Church is obsessed above all with appearances and publicity. They've excommunicated people before who openly criticized the church while keeping people who committed crimes like rape and child abuse because it wasn't as public. The polygamy is not truly the issue, it's the TV polygamy. The church doesn't want to be associated with popular polygamists.

I think that's true sometimes but I also try to consider their background. All of them are somehow related to each other. The reason they're all so thrilled about Maddie's fiance is that he is essentially already in their family. That's how this brand of polygamy works. I can't stand Tony but the Browns seem to dislike him mostly because he's not somehow related to them. While this is weird, I don't know if it was nearly *as* weird for the likes of Kody and co as it would be for the less incestuous general population.

Exactly @Emmierose! I hate Farrah but her porn career is not one of the reasons. I don't shame sex workers but regardless of your opinions on porn/sex work, Farrah was making money perfectly legally and not in the vicinity of her daughter. Many moms have to make money stripping, etc. That is not in any way comparable to abandoning your daughter because you went to jail after being on drugs for her ENTIRE life, neglecting her to the point of criminal neglect, and beating her dad. Who do Cate and Amber think they are when they make those kinds of comments? I'm sorry, are you so fucking high and mighty? What the hell have you done? At least Farrah and Maci have associates degrees and SOME form of paid work besides MTV.

Yes. Regardless of what the girls would do, he is hugely embarrassing. He is an embarrassment to mental health care. I feel sad that some people might watch him and think he's a professional. He gives such horrible advice, it's basically an abuse of his profession. He's a reality star, not a doctor, educator, academic, etc. I really do think Cate has some unresolved major trauma (well, we do know she was abused multiple times for a fact) and is actually depressed. That doesn't excuse her behavior, at this point I can't stand her and I'm still angry at her for increasing the stigma against mental illnesses AND adoption. I'm really sorry to say this and I know it's just my unfounded opinion, but Amber, I don't believe it for a second. She does not have BPD or bipolar disorder. She's just an awful person.

@AirQuotes I was with Dr. Drew for a couple of things but then he always descends into crazy. He was actually encouraging Cate & Ty to have ANOTHER child. What the hell?!?! I hate him even more than the girls. They're very dim witted. He is supposedly educated and experienced. What a douchebag.

I enjoyed Amber calling out Farrah but she 100% ruined it for me when she couldn't even be mildly accountable for factual, inarguable things she does. Honestly she reminds me of my narcissistic parent. Every conversation with Amber is the same: Someone enters into a normal human dialogue with her about normal human things. Gary wasn't saying a single insulting word. He specifically said he knew she was depressed and he understood she couldn't be there for Leah. Ok, fine. But until you get that more under control enough to spend more time with your daughter and be reliable, I can't just give you 50% custody. I mean, I don't understand what Amber wanted. For him to just say on the stage right then, you know what, just take primary custody, you are a perfect angel? ...? Then Amber hears a FACT about herself she doesn't like. She doesn't always pick Leah up when it's her time, for instance. Cue the IMMEDIATE emotional meltdown, threats, rage, and victimized performance. She was asked multiple times why she was upset. No rational answer. Not even an irrational one. Just "I'm done." Honestly like my hormonal meltdowns as an anxiety ridden 13-14 year old, but from a 26 year old self righteous mother. And on national television. And in response to zero provocation. Zero. Then she comes back and treats Christina condescendingly (also, shut the fuck up Dr. Drew with your "mom to mom" bs, you are not only an actively awful therapist but offer deeply harmful advice), shoving it in her face that she was with him before and somehow "knows" he doesn't help the poor dear and insinuating that that's why she's trying to take the burden off of Christina's shoulders. Thereby insulting Christina as an intelligent person and her husband as well. What. The. Fuck. Manipulative as hell. Second delusion of the night was Cate thinking B&T don't want Carly around them not because their father is a woman beater and addict, they openly talk shit about them on TV and break the adoption agreement rules regularly, and still discuss Carly like she's their daughter, but because Carly might love them more because she idolizes them and that just be "hard for B&T as parents." No, sweetie. No. Oh. And we got the answer on whether they understood the Bethany adoption agreement. Yes, they did, and they were not manipulated in any way. Came straight from their mouths. They didn't even sign up for in person visits. That was just extra kindness from B&T.

I have a mental illness (PTSD). It is a legitimate medical issue. I'm honestly tired of selfish, trashy assholes like Amber using things like BPD, a very painful mental health disorder usually resulting from childhood sexual trauma, to excuse their disgusting behavior and outbursts. It hurts the many actually suffering people with these disorders, the vast majority of whom are victims of others' cruelty, not abusers and horrible parents. And I hate Drew 10x more for not only enabling and perpetuating but actually instigating that crap.

@Kellyee, wait, which one wants to follow them into polygamy? Mariah used to say she wanted to but now she says absolutely not. Is there another one?

They devoted quite a bit of an episode or two to their relationship, so he must not hate the filming all that much. They talked about the move in and no one was at all perturbed...I think there was quite a stark disparity. Kody even said they shouldn't get engaged yet and didn't say anything about chastity at all. Certainly didn't take them aside and lecture them about where they could touch. I know Logan isn't Mormon, but I'm not sure why their religion has much to do with it. If it's in Tony's and Mykelti's personal belief system not to have sex, that's their business to uphold, not Kody's.

The audacity of "you need to wait to have sex with my daughter" is matched only by its sexism. Logan has a live in girlfriend and is traveling Europe with her. They are serious but have been together for years with no talks of engagement before moving in. They both said they wanted to take it slow and aren't at all religious in ANY religion. Not once did any Brown family member indicate worry about this, concern about Michelle's reputation, etc. It's clear that Kody thinks he owns women's sexuality. It's in his religion. His son can do anything, but his daughters *belong* to him. The difference in attitudes is astounding. This isn't a little added protectiveness or tenderness with a daughter. This is literally "do whatever the fuck you want, you're a guy" vs. "I will dictate where and when you can touch my adult daughter, when you marry her, and the religious attitude of the family you create together." Ew.

@Kath94, not AS threatening, yeah. But not care at all that his wife literally told another man she was deeply, madly in love with him, planning to leave him and not satisfied with him sexually? Having phone sex with him and planning dates and to get out of her marriage? Deciding to run away together? I don't know any men who wouldn't be devastated by that unless they didn't care about the woman. I know my husband would be. I don't think Kody cares, or at least his ego won't allow him to think there was anything at all he did to encourage the distance between them.

Hopefully your mother didn't raise you in a cult, have a public affair and then deny it, though, lol. What drives me nuts about this is that Kody seems like it's just fine because no sex actually happened, even though they sexted, planned sex, planned a relationship and had phone sex. In addition to saying "I love you" repeatedly and planning secret rendezvous. So basically because this "dude" didn't have literal intercourse with his "wife" or impregnate her--just, you know, made her fall in love and plan to leave her marriage--Kody doesn't mind? Shows what he thinks about marriage, honestly. And it's not pretty.

@notnowimbusy, that's what confuses me too. Maybe it was humiliating her and she was hoping Meri would stop before it messed up her marriage and her place in the family? This was also when the show wasn't filming so maybe she hoped it would stop before the photos and tweets became public. Meri was already out of favor. Only one kid, older, clearly not super happy with polygamy, dramatic...I can't imagine that she wanted to fall even lower on the totem pole.

That's the part I really don't get about this show. It is so achingly clear that while the kids might be close, the other parents do NOT see the other kids as truly their own, and the wives do not have close relationships. So if those are two of the major polygamy perks...what's left?

@notnowimbusy, I get the sense the older kids and Kody don't have much of a relationship.

I agree. She's very immature. But if it was my mother, I'd tell my mother to get in touch when she was ready to quit overtly lying to me and the world. It would insult me to have someone involve me and then embarrassingly lie over and over, not just to me but on TV.

I agree on some level but if Meri would be at all real with her, she might be. Meri wasn't decent to her when she dragged her into her affair (remember that Mariah was on the trip where Meri was trying to meet Sam), brainwashed her into thinking polygamy was the only true way to live, and played the victim afterward instead of owning up to the fact that she fell in love and was about to leave and doesn't want to do this anymore. If Meri expects emotional maturity and accountability from a 21 year old, she should at least give a little herself.

@FakeJoshDuggar, exactly. In their religion, Kody is a literal future God of his own planet, and his wives the chosen ones of God and the prophets. It was hard enough to realize my parents were humans with flaws. I can't imagine the horror if I found out that not only was that untrue, but the people I was raised (without siblings to temper the influence, and while going to an FLDS school throughout most of high school) to believe were basically deities were complete idiots. Also, of course she doesn't blame Kody. She's had a lifetime of brainwashing telling her FLDS patriarchs are perfect divine beings.

I don't agree about Mariah. She's not the most likable person, but why would *she* have to be the one to "understand" the situation when her parents don't? She was basically raised by a single mom who was more friend than mom--because she relied unfairly on Mariah for the partnership and emotional support she should have gotten from her spouse -- and who fed her daily lies about polygamy and religion. (Only way to be happy, only way to go to heaven, only way to find real love, etc.) And a dude who came around once in a while who did the same thing. She's on a literal show, that her parents put her on as a teen, that's supposed to be about how great polygamy is. Her mother is a public figure who did this VERY publicly, and embarrassingly, while being repeatedly warned by Mariah that it was happening. Now are they admitting, hey, we had major issues because of polygamy, Meri wants monogamy and Kody doesn't, and we sort of sold you a bill of goods, and this often happens in arrangements like this? Nope. Back to the show and the Supreme Court cases defending their marriage and the TV appearances about being polygamists. So is Mariah emotionally immature and whiny? Yes, but certainly no more than her parents actually involved in the incident. And she was unfairly pulled into the affair, because Meri did this publicly, while Mariah was at home, and because they were already public figures. I don't like Mariah much but if she's entitled and spoiled, Kody and Meri seem far more so in this scenario.

Maybe they want their own show?

Thoughts this episode: I was so distracted by Nova's misery and how deeply dirty and unattractive Cate and Tyler looked. Wtf was with that purple thing in Cate's hair, and why was it a rat's nest? And why is Tyler trying to look like a 50s greaser? Why don't they seem to notice how unhappy their child is? Watching them made me need a shower. The Farrah/Deb thing is so confusing to me. Does Farrah pay her personally, besides the show $$? Wtf is their relationship? Or does she still owe her money she's paying back? I couldn't follow whatever conflict they were having because it was so annoying. I agree with whoever said Deb seems guilty about Farrah's childhood, whatever that involved (high conflict/alcoholism, I assume), and Farrah is milking it for all it's worth. I almost feel exploitative watching their scenes because of the dysfunction and mental illness. I do have a special place in my heart for Simon. He just swoops in sometimes to have sex with Farrah and tell her she's the worst. It's really funny. While Amber is clueless as a parent and makes Leah's custody all about her, I did feel for her this episode as it seems once in a while it really does hit her what her actions have caused. Most of the time she seems like she's swimming in delusions, but when she does "come to" for a minute about what she's lost (like when Gary invited them over), it's very, very sad to watch. Maci, meh. Distracted by her forehead. Never seemed to stop her before! Lol.

I'm happy for her. Hope she makes it. :( I doubt it though.