profdanglais

The answers are yes, yes, yes, and your questions are pointless.

Looking back at the series as a whole (minus S7 because I didn't watch it) this is the retcon that infuriates me the most, with eggnapping and the stupid evil flower thing a very close second and third respectively. Hook killing his father I actually don't have a problem with. It fits in with his pre-redemption character, his quick, violent temper, his wanting vengeance. But the absurd gymnastics that were necessary to shoehorn the whole thing into the timeline in a way that would allow Regina to be part of it (and how the hell does Regina even know about Hook's father? What connects random bartender Brennan Jones to Captain Hook, whose real name had been lost for centuries at that point?) is just a bridge too far. If they wanted a patricide for Hook, it should have taken place in at a reasonable point in the timeline, either before he became Hook or on one of his early cake runs. It could have shown how far he'd fallen from the upright lieutenant, or something. Anything but the infuriatingly lazy way they actually did it.

I think a lot of this is a result of the rigid and cutthroat nature of American network television. Every show has to have 20 odd episodes, regardless of how many they need to tell their story, and they have to hold on to their viewers or they risk cancellation. This encourages both the plot-irrelevant filler episodes and the kind of "OMG twist!" attitude to writing that caused so many problems on this show. It also means that successful shows have to keep their lead actors happy and busy to justify their salaries and the fact that they are basically held captive for eight months of the year, unable to take on other projects. Hence, we get Rumple and Regina in every.single.flashback. In the UK, shows tend to have a lot fewer episodes, and the whole series will be planned, written, and filmed way before it airs. TBH, I like that system a lot better, it makes for tighter and more consistent storytelling and characterisation, and means that you usually don't have to watch a show you once loved slowly mutate into a twisted shadow of its former self (there are exceptions of course, see: Sherlock). I sometimes wonder if OUAT's concept wouldn't have been better as a shorter, tighter, UK-style show with more of an ensemble cast.

And yet, still not as horrible as the one he had later. The quickest, most effective way to make attractive people less attractive is to give them bad hair.

It really was cruel of Regina to force people who don't care for each other into "marriage" and sex. Of course, we see that she has no real understanding of consent with what she did to Graham, but still, it's gross. Plus, she seemed really touched that Katherine wanted ti be her friend, yet she still forces her to sleep with someone she doesn't love. Does Regina know about Frederick? Is he in Storybrooke? I can't remember if we ever got resolution for that. This, this, this. I would have loved to see David have prince lessons. They give him this backstory and then it has no effect on him at all, other than that he sometimes mentions that he was once a shepherd. I suppose he just learned all the royal protocol by osmosis?

Another episode reminding me of how I used to really like Charming (David not so much) and that he used to be pretty awesome. The trick with the dragon was great. It was a good way to show that he was brave and heroic despite not being raised to it, and does kind of establish the idea that in OUAT-world core traits are what they are regardless of nurture, kind of like what we see later with Which then makes it even more disappointing when we later "discover" that Poor Graham. And poor Emma. And poor Graham again.

This episode is still as meh as I remember it being. The rescue was pretty great, but everything else, meh. Yep, I could see it there. Not if I hadn't been looking for it, mind you, but ... Agree with everyone saying that the EF was never great for heroes, and the whole "villains don't get happy endings" BS was and always will be BS. I like this more nuanced version of good and evil and really wish

Sooo... I've never really been that into fanfic, but then someone posted a link to one in another thread, and I was missing OUAT so I decided to have a look--and I loved it. It was exactly what I had never known I wanted 3B to be. So I read another, and then another, and long story short I've now written my own. https://archiveofourown.org/works/14913686/chapters/34544675 It's basically about Killian/Hook and how I imagine his life went, before all the retcons in later seasons. I'm a fanfic virgin so please go easy on me, but I'd love to know what you think.

Yep. I remember thinking that both Cinderella and particularly her prince looked to modern for the fairybacks. Thomas in particular just looks like a frat boy. I just don't buy him in a leather doublet. This episode frustrated me the first time I saw it because I was disappointed that there was no progression of Snowing after Snow Falls. But on the rewatch I like it a lot better. I liked seeing Rumplestiltskin trying to get the baby-- and I loved Emma calling Gold's bluff. You could see the wheels turning as he realised she had the better of him, and though it is frustrating that he still managed to turn the situation to his advantage, I think that's the first time we saw Rumple/Gold on the back foot. There was genuine chemistry between Emma and Graham. I really did think that was going someplace.

Count me as another one who fell in love with the show because of this episode. This is the one that hooked me on Snowing and kept me tuning in to see what would happen with them. Several others have remarked on this, and I think I did as well in the Ep1 thread, but the aesthetic both of Storybrooke and the Enchanted Forest is so different in the first season. I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I notice it particularly in Mary Margaret's loft (soft lighting, vintage decor) and at the Troll Bridge, with the mist, it really did seem magical. I wish I knew what changed in the later seasons, did they just stop caring or paying attention to those details? I mean, I don't think the loft changed but somehow it seemed different? Also agree that MM's wardrobe was so great in this season, as was her hair, and I can't understand Charming was also pretty badass in this ep, I had forgotten he used to be able to do stuff. I really wish Finally, and I'd be genuinely interested to hear people's take on this,

Well, to be fair, OUAT's Hook was the reason I stayed with the show in the long run...

I love this too. Then she goes into the inn and it’s covered in cobwebs and Granny’s reaction makes it clear that they never have guests. So creepy, but in a good way.

Emma is intelligent and street-smart, but she's not really book smart. Some of those connections are plain enough but others are a bit obscure. It doesn't really surprise me that Emma wouldn't pick up on them, at least not straight away.

Rumple's powers just needed to be defined, full stop. The Dark One was just too powerful in the end, like all the villains really, they had this strong magic and seemingly no limits on how they used it. so why did they just wait around for the heroes to foil their plans instead of just killing them? It's like they took lessons from the Batman villains. The name thing was taken directly from the actual fairy tale, but I think the tale itself didn't really elaborate on why Rumplestiltskin wanted the baby's name. There was so much they had to work with, and S1 Rumple was great, menacing and creepy but you still got the sense that he was manipulative because he needed help and couldn't see his plans through on his own. That would have been such an interesting limitation for his magic, if he couldn't act directly but had to coerce or bargain others into doing his dirty work. Did we ever find out how they got Rumple into that cell and why he couldn't escape it? I can't recall. Ultimately, I think what ruined Rumple as a villain was Belle. When they decided to make him the Beast they had to provide some reason for Belle to love him, so they came up with this "good heart" nonsense, which they then had to reconcile with his continued villainy (because Peak Rumple was a great villain and they didn't want to let that go) so we got this back-and-forth of is Rumple a villain or is he a hero.

Regina was definitely a far more compelling villain at this point, but I can't help wondering if the writers knew what Snow White's great sin against her was when they wrote this episode? On a lighter note, I love the aesthetic of Season 1 so much. Mary Margaret's loft is so pretty and better lit than in later seasons (hope that doesn't need a spoiler tag!). Also her hair and clothes were so adorable. I loved S1 Mary Margaret. One final spoiler observation: I agree that cutting down the apple tree was one of Emma's best moments. Also love that preference for cinnamon in hot chocolate is apparently strongly genetic.

It is going to be tricky to keep the spoilers out of the discussion.

I haven't rewatched this episode in a long time, but seeing it now really reminds me of what drew me into the show in the first place. I find it very well done, with little things like Mary Margaret with the bird, and the cobwebs on Granny's desk, the slightly eerie feeling of Storybrooke, plus everyone looked so gorgeous. Poor Charming, though. That fight with the Black Knights was his finest moment, and then he was supposed to die afterwards. Some spoilery things:

Perhaps Henry meant that heroes don't kill real people, whereas no one cares if you kill redshirts. Redshirts on OUAT being mostly Black Knights or other guards and random villagers or people in the forest. That would wipe out most of Regina's murders, and I imagine quite a few of Hook's as well.

@Shanna Marie I completely agree, both about Rumple and Pan not needing to be related, and about Liam not being a prize. One of the things I would have liked in Hook's backstory would have been either a flashback that showed why Hook's hero worship of his brother was justified, or something in the Underworld allowing Hook to come to terms with Liam not being able to live up to his idealised image of him. As for Rumple and Pan, there were many more interesting ways to draw them into conflict, vying for power, for control of magic, for Baelfire's loyalty, any of those would have been better than the tired father/son thing.

Love it. In my head canon, one of the JR's powers is that she can move easily between realms, but not at will. She needs to store up enough magic first. So Hook does his cake runs, but then also every few years he can go off somewhere else without Pan's help, to pirate around and research Dreamshade and keep his crew happy so they don't mutiny. Also, in my head there's more to the Neverland realm than just that one island, so they can keep themselves occupied in between bouts with Lost Boys. Also in my head, the JR is a bit like the TARDIS -- an entity in herself, with emotions, likes and dislikes. She loves Hook, is fond of Bae/Neal and Henry, hates Regina and Cora, and tolerates Emma once she starts making Hook happy. Hook so rarely had anyone 100% on his side, it would have been a lovely relationship to explore, and I'd have loved to see Emma work to win the loyalty of his ship.

I remember having positive thoughts about the half-season arcs in S3. I wasn't a serious viewer at the time and I was tired of them wandering aimlessly through unconvincing jungle and worried that they were going to have 23 episodes of that plus a million fake-outs of getting Henry back/not getting him, so I was glad to be spared that. However, looking back with 20/20 hindsight, there was so much more they could have done with Neverland. Increasingly, I find myself wondering what the heck Hook did there for 200 years. Did he just sail in circles around that tiny island, occasionally popping into the Echo Caves or going on cake runs for Pan? How did he get his dastardly pirate rep if that's the case? Neverland really shouldn't have been so completely closed off from the other realms. I would have liked to see a better story for Tinkerbell (one without Regina), some pixies, maybe some other neighbouring islands where Hook & Co could have gone pirating, more interesting geographical features, more flying, a sea battle, probably all that stuff was too expensive, but still. Pan should have kept up his pretence of friendliness for Henry longer, and been more mischievous rather than full-on evil. Also, he should not have been Rumple's father. Not everyone has to be freaking related to each other. I'm just rambling now--tl:dr I didn't hate the Neverland arc, but it was flat in so many ways. Another thing I'd change is I'd diversify the magic a little bit. OUAT magic was pretty much just fireballs, bursts of light, and coloured smoke. Plus the magic beans that are rare until they're not. It would have been interesting to see different kinds of magic, maybe more magical objects that could be used by anyone or other ways for non-magic people to fight the magic ones, different kinds of potions, more about how wands work, more about the Jolly Roger being made of enchanted wood--wouldn't it have been cool if the JR had genuine magic attributes, other than just being fast? The more you think about the possibilities the more it becomes clear how this show was hampered by the showrunners' lack of imagination.

Hi everyone! Not sure if anyone remembers me... I noped out of this show before S7, popped in here once or twice to see if maybe I should take it up again, decided not to, and after reading what you all had to say about the finale, am glad I didn't. It actually makes me angry to think about that whole "elected ruler of everything" nonsense. But, I am 100% down for a rewatch, looking forward to discussing a show I still love (for 3.5 seasons anyway) with all you lovely people!

For me, it's a hate-watch, I'm interested in seeing how bad things can get. Since you're in this thread, @Jacks-Son, I'm going to feel free to tell you that in the books, Demelza and Hugh's affair had nothing to do with Prudie, who by then had a much more reduced role than what the show has given her. I think this business of encouraging Demelza was included mostly to give the actress something to do and out of some bizarre need to make all Demelza's decisions revolve around Ross. Book Demelza's feelings for Hugh were much more nuanced and her decision to sleep with him was one of the more empowering things she ever did. She didn't feel guilty about it, and although they never explicitly discussed it, Ross seemed to understand.

Yeah, Book George is a far more interesting character because he has more in his life than just Ross. I get that TV is a different medium and you have to show people's thoughts, but the way George is portrayed as being obsessed with Ross is just so extreme. The same could be said for the Carne brothers. In the books their interaction with Ross and Demelza is relatively limited. Could we not have one scene with them that isn't filtered through Demelza? Doesn't she have small children to take care of? How is it that she can spare the time to walk down to Drake's smithy every day and have a chat?

It appears I owe Debbie Horsfield an apology... Book!Ross did suggest another premature baby to Elizabeth. I remember now that her pregnancy was outed earlier than she wanted, so she had to try to induce early labour to keep up her pretense. Mea culpa.