profdanglais

Maybe the True Love's Kiss needs to be renamed the I Quite Fancy You And Would Like The Chance To See Where This Relationship Goes Kiss (IQFYAWLTCTSWTRGK), and they can come up with some other way to distinguish True Love™ from all the other loves and likes and swift-burning attractions on this show. I do get where you're coming from in not liking CS's angst in this episode, but really, there was never any way that Emma was going to be able to get Hook out of the underworld with her ill-thought-out heart-splitting plan and lack of foresight in not even trying to preserve his body. Her decision to take such a drastic step with so little planning showed that even though she accepted that he had to die to stop the Dark Ones, she hadn't really let him go and hadn't ever truly allowed him the agency to choose his fate. Now she has, fully, and it seems like she won't (I hope hope hope she won't) feel any guilt or responsibility for it. That's an important development for her.

I'm kind of annoyed that Emma's trick of disabling the car before confronting the person she's bail-bonds-ing turned out to be not her trick after all. She really doesn't get to have nice things, does she?

I hardly ever cry at TV or movies, but that goodbye had me misty. It was heartrending. Emma's flashbacks needed to be further in the past. Loved the scene with her and the jacket though. If Hades is still bad and he and Zelena are True Love (really?) then does that mean Zelena is going to go Wicked again? Or will it be a Rumbelle scenario where she keeps insisting he's changed and ignoring anything that contradicts this? Hades' double-crossing skillz are pretty sharp. When did he have time to give that spell to the Blind Witch? Overall, I liked this episode and am now officially Interested in the remainder of the season, particularly in how the heck they're going to get Hook back.

That seems entirely reasonable. I'd say the same.

Me too. It looked pretty well done in the sneak peek. It bugs the heck out of me when the stand-in's back/hair, etc doesn't look anything like the main actor.

The American network television system means that popular shows become victims of their own success. They get dragged on forever, with the only goal being to hold on to what made them popular in the first place. This results in llittle progress for character or plot arcs, and retcons/inconsistencies piling up. They stagnate. One of the things I like about living in the UK is the shorter, more focused television seasons. It can be frustrating when so much time passes between seasons (looking at you, Sherlock!) but overall I think it results in tighter storytelling. As far as Rumple goes, I completely agree that Belle holds his character back and should have been a one-off. Any redemption for Rumple was always going to be a struggle because he chose to go dark and he continues to choose it. Redemptions work better when the character spirals into darkness due to a combination of circumstance and his/her own personal failings, then slowly works to address the failings and deal with the circumstances until they become the best version of themselves. Rumple thinks that the darkness makes him the best version of himself, so what incentive does he have for redemption? Finding Bae might have been enough if that had been handled well, but Belle is never going to be enough. Honestly, I don't see Rumple redeeming, and that's fine. It could be great. Rumple is always best as a villain. How much better would it have been if he'd been straight up evil throughout the series instead of weaving in and out of half-assed "redemption"?

I have heard speculation that the US's puritanical traditions plus its glorification of violence (gun culture, Old West mythology, etc) is behind that, Dianthus. That seems plausible, if a bit simplified. It is certainly ironic that people don't mind their kids watching Hook kill his father, but two girls making out is a danger to their "family values".

I would have liked 5A better if three things had been done differently: 1. Darker Dark Swan. While Emma's HeadRumple was the most entertaining Rumple has been since the S3 finale, it was an underwhelming way to demonstrate Emma's internal conflict. She didn't seem to be tempted by darkness at all. The whole thing seemed to be just that she couldn't do magic, because her magic had turned dark and using it would make her dark. But wanting to use her magic isn't inherently dark, and she only really wanted to use it for good things, like saving Robin (well, sort of good) and Hook. I would have liked to see more actual temptation to darkness and conflict within Emma. Having dark impulses should have been a new and terrifying experience for her, but that wasn't emphasised as much as it could have been. 2. More Dark Hook. Birth was a great episode, but Dark Hook came out of nowhere and was resolved in a few episodes. Far better if we'd seen Hook in Storybrooke start to revert to his darker self without realising why, beginning to suspect it had something to do with Emma, working things out for himself, then when the truth was revealed revisiting his anger from Camelot and slowly falling down the spiral to ultimate darkness. Instead, he was like "Welp, seeing as I'm the Dark One, which I've just very suddenly discovered, I'll be popping off to the lake and resurrecting all the other Dark Ones from the Underworld. What do you mean 'abrupt?'" I might be in the minority, but I loved Dark Hook. Hook spends a lot of time having his agency trampled on, by Rumple, by Pan, by Hades, even by Emma. It was nice to see him have some power, even evil power. I would have loved to see him revel in that for a while before realising that it was all hollow and what he really wanted was to be a hero, after all. 3. No Merida. All the above could have been accomplished if they'd just cut Merida out of the whole arc.

I think I've worked out why I never got into Rumbelle. Well, one reason. The thing is that having Rumple be the Beast from Beauty and the Beast doesn't really work. It was interesting in S1 in a surprise-twist kind of way, the problem is that B&B's moral is not to judge people based on their appearance. The Beast is scary on the outside, but on the inside he's good, and Beauty/Belle is unique because she's able to see that. The Disney film adds another layer by having Belle able to see beneath Gaston's handsome exterior. This indicates that she is noble and generous and not shallow or judgmental. So, believing in the Beast=good. The trouble with all that in the context of OUAT is that Rumple's sparkly-imp exterior is a reflection of who he really is, not a cover for it. Mr Gold, the respectable local businessman in the sharp suit, is much more a disguise of Rumple's real character than the sparkle imp. Regardless of his external appearance, Rumple never stops being the Dark One. So Belle's persistence in believing Rumple is a good man is less noble generosity of spirit and more wilful self-delusion and refusal to believe that she could have been wrong about him from the start. Instead of making Belle look good it makes her look idiotic and arrogant in her insistence that she and she alone can see the goodness in Rumple. If in the original B&B, the Beast went out every night to slaughter villagers and small animals and appeared at home each morning dripping blood from fang and claw and told Beauty that of course he hadn't killed anyone, and if he had it was only because they forced him to, at which point Beauty would clean the blood from his face and earnestly declare her unwavering faith in his goodness... if that were the original story then the OUAT version would work perfectly. The narrative necessity of keeping Rumple a bad guy has basically ruined Belle.

I have loads of thoughts about Belle in this ep, which I shall take to her thread. Meanwhile: Nevengers, good. I liked that Snow does seem to be back, that Emma acknowledged how irresponsible it was to take her teenaged child to the Underworld, that Hook again is always, always, always on her side, no matter what. The few nanoseconds of CS interaction were really sweet. Gaston could have been a much more interesting character. For a while there, I thought he would be. Then came the ogre-torture and the forced marriaging, and now he's just a cardboard-cutout bad guy who totally deserves to spend eternity as a lost soul. Sigh. Count me as one who would prefer to see a darker Belle. Not because I want Belle to be dark, but because I find it so, so tiresome to watch her be duped again and again and again, due to her delusional refusal to see Rumple for who he is. I like Rumple owning his Dark-One-ness and I wouldn't be against seeing Belle embrace her attraction to dark power. I'm also tired of seeing Rumple pretend-change. At least this development will (maybe? possibly?) shake up the tired Rumbelle dynamic.

As far as various ships go, I loved Snowing in the first season, some of their moments then are still among my favourites. They've got a bit dull since, but that's pretty typical--no one knows how to write interesting drama for married people. I was on board for Swanfire too until Neal turned out to be such a complete twat bastard (still angry that they turned badass little Baelfire into that *£&%%£@$!). I liked the twist of Rumpelstiltskin being the Beast, but beyond that didn't really engage with Rumbelle that much, mostly I think because I don't like the characterisation of Belle, and frankly, they are just irritatingly repetitive now ("I can change!" "I know you have a good heart!" etc etc ad nauseam). Outlaw Queen has just always seemed so odd. I'm not against the idea of Regina having a fated love, but the execution of that relationship has just been weird and unnatural, they seem shoehorned together totally at random. Does anyone really, truly believe that if it weren't for that tattoo, Regina would have given Robin a second look? They have nothing in common, and despite the crypt shenanigans, no sexual chemistry to make the opposites-attract thing plausible. My ship is Captain Swan, even though originally I liked Hook as a character largely because I loved the romance of the wicked, hot AF pirate being so torn up by his girlfriend's death that he goes on a 300 year revenge quest, and I remember watching Tallahassee and thinking "they're not really going to put Emma with Hook, are they? What about his epic murdered love?" But I'm also a sucker for some tortured longing, and season 3 CS had that in spades. I like that Killian loves so wholeheartedly, and I like that Emma has someone who is always on her side. But beyond that they are the only couple who still have some dramatic interest, who still shoot sparks off each other, and who really seem like they are based in something solid. With Snowing sidelined (or egg babied, which is worse), Rumbelle repetitive, and OQ plain odd, what do we have left to discuss but CS?

If Belle takes Rumple back after that speech, I actually think I'll be on board with Rumbelle. I liked that he made a distinction between being the best man he could be because of her and actually being a different person. Belle may bring out the best in him, but he's still the effing Dark One. If she could see him with clear eyes and try to influence him for good as much as possible, but still accept that he's the embodiment of darkness and is going to do some nasty stuff from time to time, at least their relationship would be based in genuine understanding instead of her silly fantasies. I really hate when people in TV shows claim they're going to change because of love. People just don't work like that. We can try to be the best that we can, but no one can alter the fundamentals of who they are, and if you're in a relationship with someone whose love is contingent on you changing the essence of what makes you you, then they don't really love you. But Belle choosing to acknowledge that she loves both man and beast? That may not be the soundest judgment in the world, but at least it would be her choice, and it could have a really interesting effect on the Rumbelle dynamic.

I did not expect to enjoy this episode, but actually really did! I very much enjoyed Rumple giving Belle some home truths, and Zelena calling Robin on his abandoning their infant daughter to go on a rescue mission for someone he barely knows. Robin was pretty well used in this ep as well. Also enjoyed the Snow/Charming bits and Snow showing some of her old toughness. Zelena/Hades was the weakest element, and even that was fun! This may be the first Zelena episode I've genuinely liked.

Just came across the original Snow White animated film on TV. Here's the description in the menu listing: "A beautiful princess stays in a commune of dwarfs to escape her evil stepmother." Now that sounds like a sitcom I would watch. I think it's the "commune of dwarfs" that I find so amusing. Who knew Grumpy & Co were secret hippies?

Well, I for one find your brave confessions genuinely inspiring, and I'd just like to say that I've always believed that Neal was Emma's true love, and that getting her pregnant when she was a teenager just proved how strong their love was. I mean, it wasn't his fault that he had to let her take the rap for his crime and leave her to give birth in jail alone. He had no choice! And then to come back for her years later, only to sacrifice himself for the good-hearted father he'd always loved and admired, well, it was truly heroic. It's such a shame that Emma has had to settle for the lukewarm, second-best relationship she has with Hook, but I guess beggars can't be choosers.

Getting out from under Liam's shadow was not a bad thing for Killian. It's unfortunate that it drove him to piracy, but if the people who are saying that he was never that keen on the Navy in the first place are right, then maybe he would never have fully taken to the restrictiveness of a military career. Away from his "perfect" brother and from military hierarchy, Killian was able to come into his own under his own terms. What I don't get is how he then goes back to drinking, but seems to be able to keep from letting it destroy him as before. Not impossible, I guess, but it seems odd.

It must have been no more than a few weeks. The potion heals Bae, and angry Milah goes straight to the tavern where she had met Killian only hours before. Heck, it could have been a few days later that she ran off with him. I don't think it was long. I don't have a problem reconciling a young man who has problems with drinking and with temper and is a jerk and a bully when he's drunk and shows off a bit in front of his crew with one who also loves freedom and adventure and can lead a pirate crew at a young age and with one who has had naval training and wouldn't force his attentions on a married woman. That's just having a nuanced personality. I do have trouble reconciling someone who drinks until he passes out and gambles all his money when he knows that money is essential to his freedom with those other things. The first man has weaknesses balanced by strengths, the second has no control and no judgement. The only times I really felt like the Killian from The Brothers Jones really seemed like himself was when he was shouting at the captain before the mutiny and when he saw the Jolly Roger for the first time. And even that is a conflict; would the crew really follow into mutiny someone who only hours before was passed out drunk on the deck? Aarrgghhh, I don't know, I just don't like it.

Because they are things that take a long time and special training to learn. Proper navigational techniques and use of tools like the sextant from Good Form is not just something you pick up by osmosis whilst mopping up fish guts, especially if you're drunk all the time. People who don't start writing until later in life are going to have to work really hard to get that elegant handwriting. Plus, Killian was completely at ease at that ball with Emma. Sorry, but it just doesn't scan. The only way I can see it being possible is if they were only in servitude for a few years and then went into school and naval training from a pretty young age. So, for example: Father's abandonment, Killian age 6, Liam age 10 Servitude, Killian ages 6-11, Liam ages 10-15. Rescue and education, Killian ages 11-18, Liam ages 15-18 This episode would have worked a lot better for me if they'd had younger actors in the flashbacks. Also, I agree with people who have said that Liam's unfinished business didn't necessarily have to have been so awful. For me, there'd have been more emotional resonance if he simply regretted that his stubbornness and arrogance had resulted in Killian being left alone and turning pirate. Him admitting that he had been wrong and died because he was TSTL, that he should have listened to Killian from the beginning would have been enough to show that he wasn't perfect and that Killian himself had sound judgement, when he wasn't letting his temper get the better of him. That scene with Milah and Rumple in the boat last week where she admitted that she regretted leaving Bae--that was a great scene, really moving. Something like that between Killian and Liam would've been excellent.

I'll buy it.

Yep, yep, and yep. The look on his face when he saw the ship for the first time was the best part of this episode. I can see why people side-eye Killian's quick transition from puppy to pirate, but this is too much in the other direction. Show him having a temper, sure, and maybe Liam helping him to keep it under control. Then we could believe that without his brother's steadying influence he easily goes off the deep end. It's the drinking that I really don't like. Hook has always been shown to be a drinker, but not to the point where he loses control of himself. It's hard to be a successful pirate captain if you can't hold your rum. All Blackbeard would've had to do to get his ship is get him drunk and take it. No need to give up the magic bean.

Agreed. We've seen that Hook is intelligent and a strong, charismatic leader. He had to be, to have so much success as a pirate captain when he's not exactly the biggest, strongest guy on the ship. He's clever and in his pirate days was ruthless. Plus, I've always had the impression that even though he drank too much he never lost control of himself. That would've been fatal, surely? Some points I made in the episode thread that might be better here: Previous episodes have suggested that Killian had an education. His handwriting, the fact that he can dance and is comfortable at a ball, his navigational skills, his accent, his handling of a sword, his books, all these things point to it. But when? How? If he became a slave when he was so young and remained one right up until he became a Naval officer, how did he manage to learn all of that? Also, if he spent most of his life playing second fiddle to his brother, how did he develop his leadership skills? And the self-loathing from such an early age doesn't jive with the douchebroey thing he had going on in The Crocodile. I could go on. I really don't like what this season has done to Killian's character. I'm not even talking about Dark Hook, which I actually thought made sense. I mean the thing with him killing his father and now with getting drunk and gambling away his money when he was probably supposed to be what, sixteen? Don't like it. Hook was such an interesting character but we're seeing less and less of that. The worst thing is how absolutely down on himself he is these days. I find it difficult to believe that ALL of his self-aggrandising swagger of yore was just a front to cover up how much he hates himself. Of course, he would have regrets and things he's ashamed of, but this season seems to be inflating that to a ridiculous degree. Surely Hook must have seen some value in himself, based on the loyalty of his crew, say, or his own loyalty and perseverance. Seeing him look so grim all the time genuinely makes me sad.

Yeah, not a fan of this one. I've never liked Liam, despite Good Form being one of my favourite episodes, and this just reinforced all the reasons why I don't like him. What's the basis of Killian's hero worship? Is it just needing someone to look up to? We've certainly never seen Liam do anything to deserve it. Also, count me as one who doesn't care for young Killian being a screw up. It retcons Good Form too much. Plus. soooo many questions. Such as: How did Killian learn to navigate? How did he learn to dance? How did he learn that fancy handwriting? How did he learn sword fighting? It makes so little sense, if they were sold into slavery at such a young age and then went straight from being slaves to being Naval officers, when did he have the time to learn any of the above? This whole season has done such a number on Killian's character. Also: Hey, strangers who have washed up on this beach under questionable circumstances with a mythical sparkly rock! Come join my crew! I totally trust you completely! At least Cruella is fun to watch.

It has to do with age, and also with the way the later languages are delivered. Children that young are able to learn second languages in a way more similar to native language-learning, particularly in an immersive environment like you describe. Do you know how well your parents remember their first language? Do they have much chance to speak it? It is possible in a situation like that to lose a lot of the first language. Also, everyone is different. Some people are able to learn multiple languages really easily and thoroughly, while others may live in a country where the second language is spoken for years and still struggle. As a teacher, I saw older people who learned like sponges and younger ones who hit a plateau and seemed unlikely ever to be able to improve much from that point. It's all really fascinating, and I don't know nearly as much about it as I'd like. That's so cool :)

The way our brains manage languages is interesting. It's basically believed that the capacity to learn one language to native level is innate, so our young brains are completely receptive to it and the grammar/syntax/etc kind if imprints itself on them. Any languages we learn after then first one are recorded and stored differently. Since all the languages we learn other than our native one are stored in the same way in the same place it makes sense that our brains get mixed up. They know they need to activate the foreign languages section, they just can't distinguish which scrap of non-native language we need. Something similar happened to me when I lived in Japan. I was trying to learn survival Japanese, but for the first few months, my brain only wanted to give me French. This is what makes people who are raised in bi- or multi-lingual environments, so they learn more than one language as a native one, so fascinating (to me anyway). This sort of thing is what I am going to study as soon as my lottery funding comes through :).

Yeah, we will definitely get on :). I'd add PG Wodehouse to that list as well. I won't lie, learning French is something I'm pretty proud of. It was hard and took a long time, and I'm not generally good with long term goals. For some reason it was something I stuck with to the bitter end. When it got frustrating I used to indulge in vague fantasies about some sort of emergency that required a French speaker, and someone would shout "Does anyone here speak French?" and I'd stand up and say "Yes, I speak French!" and the crowd would breathe a sigh of relief knowing they were saved. Silly, but it kept me going. I never thought there would actually be such a situation, but one time there kind of was. So, my (now) husband and I were in Vegas for our wedding (easiest place on the planet to get married, weddings for international couples can get kind of complicated) and we were queuing to get our marriage licence. Everyone in the queue was dressed in normal clothes except for a group of about five people who were a bit behind us, they were all decked out in tuxes and wedding dresses. They were talking in French, laughing at themselves because they had thought that they couldn't get the licence in advance, and they had waited to get it until just before their wedding and so of course they got all dressed up first, but now were feeling a bit silly. Husband (who had lived in France and understands French pretty well) and I were eavesdropping and we couldn't help laughing along with them. They heard us and asked if we were French and we said no, etc, and chatted with them a bit until it was our turn to go up to the counter. When we were leaving with our licence, the French couple was just about to go up and as we passed them the bride stopped me and asked if it had been difficult to get the licence, she said she was worried because her English wasn't very good. I offered to go with them in case they needed help. I didn't think it would be a big deal, but actually it was a good thing I was there because they had both been married before and needed to clarify details of their divorces, they had written all their dates day/month/year instead of month/day/year, and the woman at the counter couldn't decipher their handwriting or the way they had written their addresses. When they got their licence they said "Thank goodness you were here" and I thought, well that's made it all worthwhile. Take that, everyone who said I should study something more practical! Shanna Marie your harp playing is incredibly cool.