profdanglais

And the thing is, I really think they could have easily written CS as not the focus of the show while still including those nice organic moments. Show us them eating together, having a drink together, showing up at Granny's in a way that suggests they've spent the night together. Give them some scenes where they work together, give them an adventure here and there. It wouldn't have taken much.

@Shanna Marie As usual you lay out clearly and cogently everything that bothers me about the way CS was written in later seasons. I buy your crack theory honestly, everything about the proposal and the wedding and all their relationship milestones felt so halfhearted and tacked on especially considering the popularity of the ship, that it almost has to be deliberate. Pretty much everything Emma does, from the way she reacts to finding the ring to giving it back, to the kind of wedding dress and ceremony she chooses are so generic and OOC. The ring's not great either. I just feel like there was NO thought given to the characters or how they would realistically behave in those situations. It really goes all the way back to S4 and their generic date which Hook would definitely NOT have planned for the first opportunity he had to spend some romantic time alone with Emma.

Once again, the scenario you come up with is far better than anything the show produced. Can we just go back in time and have you write the whole thing?

I can't help feeling that would have been a better story.

Agreed. I do still side-eye the True Love Tackle as pretty half-assed when everyone else gets a TLK, but that elevator scene is one of my all time favourite CS moments.

Swan Queen is by far the least believable of those three. But it's important to bring it up. I believe that one main reason Ruby Slippers seemed to come out of nowhere is that there was so much fan demand for an LGBTQ relationship but they had already committed to Captain Swan and didn't seem to want to develop Mulan's sexuality any further, so it's like they said "Okay, which side character can we make gay, or at least bi, to placate the fan base but not ruin any existing ships?" and Ruby was the answer. So OF COURSE there were no clues she was bi before, because the writers didn't know until they decided to pull it from their asses one day. TS/TW

These are dark times.

At least someone was doing their job properly. It's too bad all his efforts were torpedoed later on.

He also reads Ancient Greek well enough to translate the words on the heart-balancing thingy in the underworld easily enough that he barely had to think about it. This is something that bothers me ENORMOUSLY and I'm pretty sure I whinged about it in the original episode commentary. Hook's education is not something that could have been shoehorned in between years of indenture then piracy unless he was quite young when he joined the navy and spent several years studying hard at the naval academy. People have tried to fanwank it but nope. Can't be done. Just one of the many reasons why I have come to hate this episode so much. Interestingly I was just chatting with a friend about how well OUAT's Hook fits Barrie's original description of the character: Handsome, blue eyed, gentlemanly, educated, dangerous. I do not for one second believe that A&E intended this, mostly because in these later seasons they did their very best to destroy it. They got SO LUCKY with so much of their casting and then shot themselves in the foot over and over again.

That would have been great. If Emma using Merlin's power to save Hook killed Merlin, that could arguably send Emma Full Dark, and leave Hook with the power to counter her and end perhaps with the darkness and light being blended and shared between the two of them. But then we wouldn't have had the millionth retread of Hook vs Rumple or the Underworld (both of which I could frankly have lived without).

Agreeing with everything @Shanna Marie said in her second spoiler tag. On first watch, I thought

Despite these episodes having one of my all time-favourite Captain Swan moments -- the looks on their faces when they run into each other in the tower -- it's ultimately such a mess. Others have dissected why it's a mess better than I could, so can I just rant for a minute about Deckhand Hook? Why? Literally, why is he like that? If he's not himself, if he's a meek deckhand instead of a bold captain, then why is he still dressed as Captain Hook? Why the eyeliner, why the black, why the hook? How did he lose his hand in this version of reality? He should be dressed as a deckhand would dress, he should either have his hand or a less dangerous prosthetic. And who keeps goat's milk in a flask? It would go off in hours and he'd have a flask full of cheese. It just makes no sense. I know that this is just one of many things that make no sense in this storyline, but to me Deckhand Hook is everything that's wrong with it in a microcosm. It just. makes. no. sense.

This was my answer on Tumblr to the Which storyline do you wish never happened:

And yet that still didn't put them off.

It's the magnification that's objectionable. Yes CS had issues, and especially with the whole Dark Ones/Underworld thing, but instead of having them work through it like a loving and committed couple, they brought teh melodramzz and it was just insulting, to the characters and their relationship. I'm not having it.

Honestly, I just pretend S6 never happened. That was not my Captain Swan and I refuse to acknowledge it.

Except most Swan Queen fans don't give a damn about Emma and just want Regina to have the shiny toy they think she wants, or has "chemistry" with. *SHUDDER* So if you shipped SQ you'd probably just think that Emma was finally giving Regina the appreciation she deserves, or some such abusive and offensive nonsense.

Yeah, this is how I always understood it. Rumple pulled Ingrid's magic out of it because she'd cast the spell on Zarian, but it wasn't her hair. Zarian is just epically idiotic.

This episode is emblematic of S4 for me. Tiny parts of it--little snapshots-- I love, but as a whole it's rubbish. Emma and Hook and their date are all just used here as plot devices. We get the date that Hook would definitely not have planned but had to because they needed to be somewhere Will could stumble on them, we get the absolutely idiotic hand plot which is not only wildly OOC for Hook but also makes no sense, and only exists as a way for Rumple to get Hook's heart. The whole date is really nothing to do with Emma and Hook and their relationship at all, it's just about advancing all the other nonsense. It's infuriating. Also, Emma just kind of shrugging when Killian's hand appears and then disappears again is as bad as him being dismissive of her concerns about the puddle. Would she not realise how important the whole thing was to him?

Coming into this premiere riding the high of the S3 finale and the kiss, it was such a letdown. It was the beginning of puppy dog Hook, and although Emma's "be patient" was cute, pushing him away because she felt guilty about Regina was some bullshit. However, I did generally like the Frozen stuff and the casting of the characters, particularly Anna. It's unfortunate that a show capable of giving us Hook's coat and Regina's mad Evil Queen wardrobe dropped the ball so badly on Elsa's dress, but the rest of it was solid. I think I was more positive about S4 while it was happening because I was so keen for any and all Captain Swan, but on rewatch it is disappointing.

It's the same objection I have to All I can think about watching the ice cave scenes is that I wish Emma would zip up her freaking jacket.

I've said this before. 100% agree. Emma at any age would be snapped up.

Not to mention Merlin, who was played up as this amazing powerful wizard and then turned out to be pretty useless.

I love how Hook just understands how time travel works. Or one of the prevailing theories anyway. This is peak Rumpel, IMO. I like him so much better as a conniving imp with a wry sense of humour ("Because what you had before was such an intricate disguise?") than as the all-powerful ultimate evil. Snow is not the greatest bandit -- she doesn't hear Charming come clomping into the room and why TF did she just stand there holding the ring for like half an hour instead of getting the heck out of there. (Also the ring is so ugly. I hated it from the beginning. Couldn't they have got one that looked more old-timey? It looks like something you could buy at Claire's)

Hurrah! I have not been entirely faithful to this rewatch, but I am always here for the CS movie.