profdanglais

If this is the one I think it is, it's still going on, and it's wonderful. It's everything I wish 3B had been.

He smiles with his face but his eyes are so sad.

This. So, so much. On the first watch of this episode I was super excited because I thought it would lead to some nice development of CS, opportunities for them to kiss that Hook pulled back from, leaving Emma confused, etc. Also, I hate that Hook swearing on Emma's name is framed as a selfish act. Him wanting to make amends for his past actions is not selfish, it's redemption. It's character development. So of course the show punishes him for it.

What rumours?

Yeah, they really dropped the ball hard on Neal. It's one of my biggest peeves at the show, really. They take Baelfire, who was a fantastic character, and turn him into a petty criminal, which is sucky thing number one. Then they make him Emma's ex and Henry's father, which was full of opportunity for some real emotional drama but that never gets developed and is barely explored--sucky thing number two. Rumpel spent years looking for a way back to his son and contrived the whole curse and the whole reason the show is possible to get back to him and then they barely interact--sucky thing number three. Then they kill Neal off and refuse to allow any of the characters to react to that death in a realistic or satisfying way--sucky thing number four. It was a suck-fest from start to finish.

I really love the hospital scene with Hook and Neal, I wish so much that they'd done more to set that up, to give it some real emotional resonance. We basically have to head canon nearly the entire history between those two, and it's frustrating. There's so much potential there to mine.

They could still have had Hook and Emma trekking through the forest together (though really, they do an awful lot of aimless wandering looking for villains on this show) just have them get attacked by monkeys or something and it's more than the two of them can handle, then David appears and saves the day.

Now that you point this out, I realise that I have always

Not weird at all, that bugs the heck out of me. She's going away indefinitely and she makes no preparations for it at all. Who's going to water her plants while she's gone?

Do you have a link? I'd love to read it. ETA: Sorry, I posted before I read @companionenvy's post. Didn't mean to nag :)

This could have been a real turning point for Regina-- actually making a sacrifice, admitting that she made people miserable under the curse, doing something good for Henry and by extension Emma. Too bad they effed it up in the very next half season.

As a CS shipper, this is where I start to feel a bit let down by the writing. Could we not at least have had a bit of their conversation from the drive to SB? They must have had what, six, seven hours in the car. What the heck did they talk about, especially with Henry in the back seat with no memories.

So much of what a lot of us object to about Neal is the ick factor of the guy who looks mid-thirties with an Emma who's supposed to be 17, leading her into a life of crime before knocking her up and abandoning her. If it had been a teenage Bae/Neal and a teenage Emma (meaning the actors who played them were teenagers) and the crime stuff was shown as a mix of teens acting out and a bit of desperation because they were homeless and alone, then maybe they got in over their heads, met some older people who tricked them into committing a bigger crime, then August (original actor) showed up and pressured scared, impressionable, still-not-100%-comfortable-in-this-realm Bae into leaving Emma, that would have worked far better. That plus a bit of regret and recognition that he made the wrong decision from present-day Neal is all I personally would have needed to like the character or at least not hate him.

Yeah, I actually think you could make a solid argument that one of the first places the show began to go off the rails was in the casting of Neal. Imagine what could have been different if he'd been played by someone who a)looked like a grown up Bae and b)behaved like someone who'd grown up in a fairy tale. He'd have been a lot more interesting as a potential love interest for Emma, a stronger foil for Rumple and Hook, a more interesting father for Henry--as in, one who maybe actually could teach him sword fighting and not just how to pick up girls with 80s music. It actually makes me irrationally angry at Michael Raymond James, even though it's obviously not his fault. Still, his face upsets me.

While I definitely wish we'd seen more of the transition from Lt Jones to Captain Hook, I can buy that a lot more easily than Baelfire to Neal. It's not unbelievable that a good person would spiral when they lost people and things that they valued, and Killian lost his brother, his king/country, and his job all in one go. Plus, we see multiple examples of how he doesn't stray from a path once he's chosen it, even if he later had second thoughts about turning pirate, he would likely ignore them and double down instead, that's consistent with his character. Bae to Neal OTOH, makes no sense because the fundamental characteristics of Bae --nobility and moral compass primarily-- are nowhere to be found in Neal. I will never, ever accept that the brave little boy who jumped into a portal in an attempt to save his father would ever turn into a petty criminal, no matter how disillusioned he became.

I was actually pro-Swanfire for a hot second in S2, and I agree that it may have worked if it'd been handled differently. For me, the main thing I would have needed to see was Neal coming to actually value Emma for her adult self and not just because of their history and their kid. That would mean not dismissing and undermining her, but respecting her abilities and opinions. That's what made Hook and Emma work, more even than their chemistry and Hook's redemption, it was the way he always had her back 100% and so clearly thought she was amazing. That's what Emma needed to bring her out and help her move past her traumatic childhood. Neither Neil nor Regina, the way both those characters were written, could have done that for her.

I think this is behind a lot of Swan Queen shipping as well. People love the idea of the birth mother and the adoptive mother falling in love and raising their kid together. TBH, I get it. It would be a nice story, for different people in a different show. Just like young lovers being separated by a misunderstanding and reuniting years later when one discovers they have a child. It's a compelling idea. Just again, not this show, not these characters. Both Neal and Regina would be (are!) toxic for Emma. They both put her down and play on her insecurities. Graham may have been okay, but he seemed more interested in what she could give him than in her for herself.

Replying in All Seasons

I'd have loved to see more of Snow with birds or other woodland creatures. TBH, I suspect the writers just forgot about that aspect of her after season 1.

It's a shame, because I loved the idea of Hook being afraid of the mermaids. That is the kind of twist they should have done more of.

@companionenvy I like it. Fanwank or not, it works for me. Plus, I suppose that for the secrets to be bad enough to make a pirate crew tear each other apart they would have to be relevant to the other people in the cave, and not necessarily evils done to random people that no one else knows.

The real irony of the Plot Device Caves Echo Caves is that

Can you? Because it seems pretty pointless to even bother with Neverland if they weren't going to do anything with Hook. Why not just go to a different part of the EF if they wanted to do Rumple and his dad? I think part of the problems with Neverland are the lack of imagination from the writers and their character preferences, but I can't help wondering if it also came down to budget. Mermaids and fairies and battles must be expensive. I like this arc much better now than when I first watched it, but I realise that's pretty much just because of the CS development. At the time, I was mostly wondering if they were ever going to stop wandering around through an unconvincing jungle and actually do something. That question still needs an answer.

The last time I was at the Art Institute, I searched high and low for American Gothic, only to discover that it wasn't on display at the moment. On tour, or something. It's frustrating.

Do the Chicago Architecture Foundation Riverboat Tour. It is fantastic. I've been on it I think four times and I learn something new each time. It'll be cold this time of year, but wrap up warm and you'll be fine. Also, if you like art museums the Art Institute is brilliant and has lots of famous paintings. Michigan Avenue for shopping, Lou Malnati's for pizza. All of this is pretty touristy, but if you've only got a bit of free time I think hitting some tourist spots is a pretty good way to spend it.