Carrie Ann

I agree with your post, but yeah, I think maybe I'm not that thrilled about this storyline because I feel like we've sort of done it twice already on TVD. We've done the Esther tries to fix/eliminate her children story, and we've done the Cure story. I get that they need to explore those themes in their own way on this show too, but I'm ready for it to take a twist that will really make it different from those stories. I am, at least, grateful that we're doing this with Sonja Sohn in the role, because so far, she's been excellent.

Man, that fake ID line (while funny) really threw off my idea of Felicity's age. I mean, my best friend was 20 when we started our senior/4th year of college, 21 when we graduated. That's not that strange in the US--many regions have kids starting kindergarten when they turn 5 before Jan. 1 of that class year. But for Felicity to have been 20 only "five" years ago (probably a relative description), makes her 26 now at the oldest. That's two years younger than I thought she was, and it means that she completed what would traditionally be 18-19 years of schooling by the time she was 21. Meaning she skipped at least two years of school in there somewhere, right?

I agree with all of this--it was perfect and lovely to have Oliver and Felicity reverse roles last night. They both learned a little something about the other that way, and I really need to see this from Oliver. So that was great. And I understand that they need to get Roy established on the team, and so he's getting some interactions with Felicity that would have gone to Dig (or Oliver or Sara) in the past. I like Roy this season, so I'm cool with that so far. And maybe most importantly, we've had a lot of really, really quality Diggle/Oliver moments this season, which were lacking a bit in S2, so I'm not going to complain. But I do miss Diggle and Felicity and their implicit understanding and support of each other. And I'm hoping the pendulum will swing back a little in the mid-season, and we'll get more time with them together.

That's exactly the wording that was used w/r/t the end of last season. Are you sure you're not confusing those interviews? I do think Oliver will make the decision to pursue a full, more balanced life by the end of this season, but yeah, that doesn't mean Felicity will be waiting in the wings by that point. If they haven't already spun Ray off into his own show, or torpedoed that relationship some other way, I could see her staying with him through the hiatus so we can save more drama into Season 4. Even if they are broken up, I could see her turning Oliver down because she's just not ready to believe him again. As much as I want that happy climactic moment for them at the end of the season, I don't want to miss the first five months of their relationship over the hiatus either, so if we have to do that, I'd rather delay until S4.

*cries* I just love this so much. Can't we keep them?

I can't see any hidden meaning in it, but in case any of you want to try, this is the movie Oliver and Thea were watching in their apartment at the end of the episode. Awwww, their apartment. :')

Loved 75% of this episode, so so so much. Basically any scenes that included any or all members of Team Arrow + Roy were lovely. I was not a fan of Cooper or Nolan Funk--it just didn't work for me. His turn toward mustache-twirling villain didn't flow naturally from the guy who was willing to go to prison for Felicity. Yeah, he's become cynical and hardened, but just too slimy evil for me to believe. Also, I continue to not understand WTF they are doing with Laurel. Why make her so incompetent in every area of her life? And yeah, I definitely think Ted's role was cut back because the actor just didn't live up to their hopes for him. He's no good, and they have no chemistry. And the final off-note is Ray. He's okay as her boss, but as a love interest or even a potential friend...it's not good. He oversteps, he has no boundaries or tact, he makes all sorts of assumptions. It's not comfortable. But I LOVE Brandon Routh in this role, so I have hopes that things will improve in that area going forward.

I'm trying to manage my expectations for tonight, but I can't stop watching this gif. It's so nice to see Oliver smile.

I just feel like this tactic never, ever works. They may well have chemistry, but saying things about how viewers will feel about it is just not a good move. I never felt romantic chemistry between Felicity and Barry--still didn't last week on The Flash. Maybe I'll feel something with Felicity and Ray when their story takes that turn, but it's probably better to just let it play out than to make assumptions in advance of anything actually happening on screen.

Now I'm picturing an alternate universe in which there is a Birds of Prey series with CL as BC and Maggie Q as Huntress, and any number of awesome unemployed actresses as Oracle.

I always assumed one or both of them was with Tatia. In fact, didn't we know that? Or it was strongly implied? And it should be noted, once again: Nina Dobrev is the luckiest actress on TV today. She gets to make out with every hot guy in the TVD/TO universe.

Can Mama Smoak just move to Starling City, please?

OK, now I'm excited. Everyone was just very adorable in that scene.

So I just realized that in the first eight episodes of Season 2, four of them will focus on tired, hoary woman-centered tropes. Ep 4 featured a mother sacrificing her daughter to a demon in order to save her boy-children. Ep 5 featured a Psycho Murdering Ex-Girlfriend. Ep 7 featured a Demon Pregnancy. Ep 8 looks to be about a Succubus/Killer Seductress character. I don't even want to look ahead to future episode descriptions. I mean...did the writers just troll through TV Tropes to brainstorm for the season?

I would love that so much.

I can't remember and can't go back to look now, but Bonnie (and Damon in spirit form) were in the cemetary near the Salvatore crypt when they vanished from this plane and ended up in 1994, right? I thought that maybe when Damon whooshed back, he might have landed back there again. So maybe he just heard Stefan talking to himself inside the crypt and followed his voice.

Also want to give a shout-out to Leah for being so good at interviewing Liv, keeping it together when she says hilarious things, and for being such a great mom to such a great kid.

He also tweeted today that he was in a table read with CH and Austin Butler (the DJ guy), so he is working this week, in some fashion. Maybe he can do the 'stache thing because he'll have full facial hair for the episode(s) they're filming right now, because the beard and stuff is always fake. This just lends more to the theory that he's elsewhere/in captivity for these episodes though. ETA: Jinx, @Morrigan2575!

I would accept Bonnie and Matt, if we can't have Bamon in the long-term. I liked that 3rd season episode where Matt drowned himself in the pool in order to see Vicki, and Bonnie used good ol' CPR to bring him back to life. They were sweet together.

I didn't get why Jacob is significant until this moment. I just kinda shrugged at it last night. In my defense, daylight savings time really threw me for a loop this year.

I can see this perspective, and it's definitely why the Bamon people won me over to their side after the finale last year. I never understood that ship because I didn't see what was in it for Bonnie, and also because Damon was so dismissive of her and I don't like that dynamic, personally. But I did like seeing her dish it back to him, and I do think that's better for him than the alternative--a person who pays lip service to having moral standards, but doesn't actually have the backbone to stand up to him or hold him accountable for anything. The Damon that we have seen will regularly test boundaries, and Elena essentially proved to him in S4 and 5 that she has none. She will constantly redraw them in order to be with him. So Damon gets to do whatever the hell he wants, and Elena will make a sour face and then forgive him five minutes later, and he'll just do that awful thing again. Their relationship is unbalanced and toxic, and makes both of them worse people. I don't actually expect Bonnie and Damon to ever be together romantically, but if they could be, I think it would be a much more balanced situation. Since we probably can't have that, I will settle for Elena and Damon both growing and becoming better people who aren't codependent before they are together again.

But Oliver could still be missing from Starling for several episodes, even if the viewers see him in captivity. I don't want that. It's not just about seeing less of Oliver, it's about seeing less of him with his team. I wouldn't be happy at the thought of any of this in general, but after four episodes of Arrow without the team dynamic I'm used to, and the promise that the rest of 4A will be similarly unhappy, I don't relish the idea of starting off 4B without Oliver in Starling. And I was really skeptical about this line of thought, but now I really think it's gotta be something like this. It looked like CH, EBR, and DR were filming together this weekend, but Stephen wasn't. The supporting cast has posted pictures of themselves together, but I haven't seen Stephen with any of them in awhile. Also, I don't know exactly how their schedule works, because I only "stalk" them by following those four on Twitter and IG, but I know that CH and EBR were up in the mountains the day before Halloween, and then filming on Halloween itself. Seems like the mountain trip was probably for work too? Unless they just felt like taking a 24-hour vacay. Stephen was filming in the mountains a few weeks back too, no shots of any other cast members then, IIRC. Staying positive until we have more info, but I will be sad if Oliver really away from the team for any number of episodes, and I will be livid if there is a significant time jump.

I think Oliver is fairly smart, but his EQ seems low, and that may just be a result of his tunnel-vision. Sometimes his compartmentalization hurts him (and others), and it causes him to make the wrong choices. Also, the show has it set up right now so that he's the General. He makes the plans like 95% of the time, and so if something goes wrong, it's usually his fault. So he makes more mistakes than other characters just by virtue of always being the one in charge and having more on his shoulders and being the engine of the plot. And I don't mind that--when it's intentional. To show his flaws, to show the areas he needs work. I don't need him to do the best thing all the time. I like seeing him on his journey. I like seeing him make progress. Which is why some stuff this season has been lovely--not getting angry when Roy told him about Thea; honestly telling Thea that he needs her--and other stuff has been frustrating--reversing his decision about Felicity after a very minor complication; trying to prevent Dig from being on the team; not fighting Laurel about telling Lance; not trying to get a hold of Nyssa to tell her about Sara; continuing to lie to Thea. I just don't know how many times I can watch him learn the same lessons and then forget them again a minute later. And yes, I do think the writers have taken a few shortcuts in order to make the plot move the way they want it to, and that has had the effect of making him seem less intelligent. That blank piece of paper thing would have been a non-issue if they'd just had it be on Roy. That Roy found it, but didn't mention it because he didn't know about Moira's secret book, so it only comes out when Oliver questions him about what he found, one more time, in front of Nyssa. Still wouldn't have been the smartest Oliver's ever been--he should have asked for a full inventory of items on Sara--but at least it wouldn't have been this stupid.

From the S6E5 thread: Yeah, I think that's where we're headed with this. If he goes after Bonnie not because Elena has rejected him and he has nothing better to do, but because he cares about Bonnie and it's the right thing to do, that will go a long way toward addressing my problems with him and his lack of growth. I'm not, and won't ever be, happy about revisiting Delena, but a huge problem I have with their relationship is how toxic and "consuming" it is. That's as true for Damon as it is for Elena, I suppose. Damon has only done a small handful of "good" things without Elena as his motivation over the course of the series, and has done any number of terrible things because of bumps in their relationship. It would be good to see that he truly cares about other people and can even put them first. And if they have to get back together, I'd rather see it happen after they've both improved as people, outside of their relationship. (I mean, I'd actually rather see it happen off-screen, so maybe they can just get together at the end of the season and the series can end then too and they can ride off into the sunset.)

Replying in the Damon thread.