Carrie Ann

Really good point. That makes no sense.

Oh, I agree that his characterization has suffered under Goffman, but I don't think it's because Goffman doesn't find him the most interesting. If I were to get vicious, I would say that Goffman is using Crane as his avatar, and thus his obsession with Katrina and the greater focus on that story. I mean, Goffman has admitted no error in the way this season has gone, so from his perspective, everything that has happened is great. I don't think that his terrible judgment and myopia disproves my theory that he likes Ichabod the best and sees him as the center of the show. As far as Hawley being a foil for Ichabod, I think that's true to an extent, but I see Hawley more as a way to move Abbie further to the side, and away from the precious Crane marriage. See, here's a new dude, and he's so cool, right? Cool enough for Abbie AND Jenny to fight over, leaving the Cranes free to work on their relationship. Which Goffman just continues to blabble on about as though it's interesting, and it sounds like we have a ton more of it in store for the rest of the season.

Personally, as I've gotten older, I've found that my interest in shows without a strong female lead is pretty low. I don't care if a man is at the center of a show (Arrow), but I need at least one woman I can get invested in. Basically the only show I currently watch without that is Sherlock, and that's kind of a special case. So I wrote SH off pre-Season 1 because it looked ridiculous, and I assumed Ichabod was the lead, because he's the character I knew from the source material. It wasn't until I started seeing clips and gif sets on Tumblr, and saw Abbie in action, that I became interested in the show. And from my perspective, she is the lead. She is the reason I'm here. Her dynamic with Ichabod is the reason Season 1 worked, and the most important element to my enjoyment of it. So ultimately, I'm pointing the finger at Katrina and Henry, but in actuality what went wrong was that Goffman re-centered the story on the wrong person. Abbie should be the grounding center of the show. She is our entry point to this weirdo story. She's the normal person from our time; Ichabod is the weirdo from another world. He's interesting as a person who has a different perspective on the world, who still has a lot to learn, but to me he is primarily interesting to me via his relationship with Abbie. But to Goffman, the situation is reversed. He finds Ichabod way more interesting than Abbie, and other characters interesting only via their relationships with Ichabod. So Frank is sidelined and then killed; we barely see Jenny; and we spend way too much time on Katrina and Henry. And maybe worst of all, Abbie spends much of the season just existing to initially challenge but ultimately validate Ichabod. The problem is that as long as he's steering the ship, this situation will not change. He fundamentally doesn't see the show and its assets the way most of its fans do. I have no hope of anything improving until and unless he's replaced.

In case you don't follow any of The Flash people on Twitter, Carlos Valdes posted this adorable video with Tom Cavanagh.

I love that writer, and I don't think it will be a sad ending. She doesn't seem the type.

Yep, you could draw a throughline from their interactions from S2 to 301 and then F108/A308. It's those six episodes in between where we were missing this kind of smiley ease. I mean, you saw glimpses of it in 305, but then Felicity shut that down at the end (and again--"You know how I feel about her" is not "letting her go," Oliver). So I see where @Fire Spirit is coming from. I felt the same confusion, but my reaction was more like, "OK, this is how it's supposed to be, so let's call those OTHER episodes anomalous, and go with this."

I think your first point is kind of the clincher: like, Oliver is saying all of these things, but then sort of doing the opposite. He's talking about how he feels like he's losing Oliver Queen, and all that's left is the Arrow, and like Barry said, he's full of crap. We haven't seen that AT ALL this season. Not at all. Instead, he's enforcing his humanity, strengthening relationships, reaching out to his loved ones, sparing villains, etc. Felicity is the only person he's pushed away. Everyone else, he's pulled closer. So yeah, it was kind of jarring to see them so cute and smiley and together-seeming on The Flash, but I chalked it up to just trying to fit the tone of that show. But then it was the same on TBATB. So I look to his conversations with Barry--who has been established as being Felicity in dude-form, and who clearly took what would have been her place in S2 in these convos--and that's the only way to explain it. That Oliver thinks he's trying to let her go, but has actually finally stopped pushing her away; he just hasn't realized it yet. Or maybe he has, as of that conversation with Barry, and now we'll see the results in Ep 9. And as for Felicity, she has continued to put on her friendly face with Oliver for the most part. so her behavior wasn't confusing to me, except the landmine thing, which I agree did seem like an S2 throwback. I kind of think it was, in a way, but maybe we are supposed to see that she really hasn't had much success in pushing her feelings down, and maybe she doesn't feel like trying anymore either. I hope we see/hear her side of things in 309 too.

Now that we know the general circumstances of Oliver going to Nanda Parbat, and the whole "something happens in 309 that changes our show forever," and the "literal cliffhanger," and Felicity not looking for Oliver because she knows where he is or where he isn't, and the emotional, draining scene of 311... I am definitely leaning toward presumed death. Which SUCKS, and I'm not pleased at all. I think that if Nyssa were to report his death to Team Arrow, they might believe it, even without a body? The only question is where he is for two months. He's either with the LoA, and they're covering it up; or he's surviving in the wilderness again; or being tended to by someone. The other option is that Ra defeats him but lets him live (and possibly Thea too) if he joins them, and that choice is communicated to Team Arrow. In that case though, it seems like Dig would be putting some pressure on Lyla to make ARGUS get Oliver out.

Have Damon and Enzo even shared a scene since Damon's return? If they have, I honestly don't remember it. So the ludicrous Damon/Enzo BFF angle is even less believable. Especially when you compare it to Dalaric, Defan, and Bamon. Damon has plenty of friendships now. No need to keep someone around just to be on Damon's side, like last year. Anyway, if the "steal your life" thing is supposed to be his motivation, then I definitely missed it. To me, it just seems like this weird, muddy version of Damon trying to force Stefan to accept his dark side, while also extending that lifetime of misery thing. But it's lacking a personal reason. There is no reason for ENZO to spend his time this way. Stefan has no current control over his life. He's not withholding something from him. They have no relationship. Enzo killed himself last year, and set it up so that Stefan would appear and feel as though he was to blame. So even if Stefan himself still felt any guilt over that, Enzo knows that he didn't actually do anything wrong. So that doesn't make sense. Stefan let Tripp have Enzo this season, but Enzo had just killed his innocent girlfriend, so again, it's not like Stefan has targeted Enzo in some way. In fact, Stefan came back over the line and saved Enzo, at his own risk, the following episode, right? So I think Enzo is still around because, Plot. I think he has to be the worst vampire, because they're setting up this human v. vampire thing, and one of them has to be truly awful. There is really no other reason for his continued presence.

I'm not happy that Monique was killed, especially by Enzo who had no real reason to do it except that he's the worst, but in a way I was a little relieved that she's not the real Sara. Because she's not a strong actress, and it would be cool if that character makes a real impact on this show. Another POC would be lovely, and because all black people on TVD are witches, her mother was probably a witch right? But yeah, I feel like there could be a larger reason Stefan's so protective of her. But honestly if that's all it is--that he hasn't ever told Damon because Damon is notoriously unstable--then I'll accept that reason too. (But it would be kind of nice for Damon to know, considering he thinks he killed her.) (Not that Damon deserves any sort of absolution for that; in fact, if the real Sara Salvatore takes the side of Team Human against Damon, that would be pretty great.)

Yeah, I wasn't sure it was possible, but Elena was even worse here than usual. I mean, good for Damon for trying to set her straight, but it still didn't really seem to get through. More like she had to adjust to the idea that it was possible for someone to care about Bonnie completely without regard to Elena herself. I think she just recontextualized it back to being about her, ultimately. Anyway, I'd seen reference to the preview about Jeremy having a surprising reaction about getting Bonnie back, but I was really on his side on this one. Probably because he was talking to Elena, but still. He made good points. And I had to actually rewind the part where he said, "But let me guess, Damon's still alive, right?" I'm actually pretty intrigued by the humans vs. their vampire loved ones split we have working here, and glad to hear some of these things laid out explicitly. Yes, Bonnie is always ALWAYS fucked over*. Yes, Stefan is a murderer too. Yes, Enzo is a piece of shit who should have stayed dead**. Yes, the vampires value their lives over human lives. Yes, they take everyone else for granted. *My God, Kat Graham just killed me in that last scene. Just tore my heart out. Poor Bonnie, but yay for Kat who is proving herself every chance she gets this year. **No really, WHAT is Enzo's motivation at this point? "Revenge" against Stefan? Ugh, he is so tiresome.

I think there was a pretty noticeable change when Marti Noxon took over for Joss Whedon on BtVS, but you know, he was still involved so you can't put the blame for the later seasons solely on her shoulders. I think Season 2 is pretty early for so many of the show's creators to jump ship and leave it in the hands of a newbie.

I feel irrationally proud and excited for them. Glad they got those ratings for what was easily the best episode of the season.

Roy asked if they called this group "Team Arrow," to which Felicity responded that she does, occasionally. So yeah, she also apparently calls it the Arrow Cave sometimes, to Oliver's obvious chagrin.

I'm not sure if there is a greater reason that Grams sent Bonnie to 1994--it would be cool if there is something else that we find out--but I was just assuming that it was the only thing she could do. Without the Other Side, or any other parallel universes or spirit realms that we know of, and since Bonnie was on the verge of death in our world, I assumed Grams just threw a Hail Mary to send Bonnie to the only other place she knew of, and it's one that offered a chance of returning Bonnie to our world someday too. Still not really clear on why Bonnie would have died in our world but didn't in 1994 world. Is it the same reason Kai can't be killed? There's some sort of regenerative property to that place? (If that's been explained, I might have missed it.)

Love that promo so much, especially on the heels of Oliver's general positivity and seeming turnaround on the identity issues. I finally have hopes about this show going into the extended hiatus. If I had to guess, I agree with @ostentatious that the 9/10 scene happens before the forehead kiss scene. Oliver's got a bag over his shoulder and Felicity leans into that kiss like she's sort of expecting it. (Screaming internally.)

I'm not sure that hock/hawk thing was confirmed?

Good Lord.

"OK, whose turn is it to roll out the cabinet of swords?" "Not it!"

It's interesting because only a few hours before Stephen tweeted those things, Felicia Day had retweeted something from Alyssa Milano about a new thing Twitter is going to implement to handle abuse. I hope it works, because they (and ALL social media platforms that I'm aware of) have been absolutely terrible about helping people who are being harassed.

This all has to happen in like the last 5-10 minutes of the episode, right? I'm kind of surprised they're releasing these photos. Also, is Ra's Al Ghul like the Dread Pirate Roberts? That this one isn't the original, and he could be looking for a successor? (Sorry if this has been covered--the comics info gets pretty jumbled in my mind.)

Yikes, thank God for Natalie Dormer. How hard is it to think about these things, D&D?

In my best case scenario, Oliver and Felicity make declarations to each other and both realize that they CAN be together and want to be and will fight for it, you know, after Oliver gets back from wherever. And then they are tragically torn apart. In my middle case scenario, Oliver and Felicity make declarations to each other and then Oliver "sets her free," because he doesn't know whether he'll live through this, etc., and Felicity is upset and devastated, but post-hiatus we find that she can't let him go. In my worst case scenario, Oliver and/or Felicity make declarations, but it changes nothing and Oliver pushes Felicity away and she takes his leaving personally, and closes that part off more thoroughly, and Ra's Al Ghul tries to make Oliver kill all the parts of himself that care about other people, and when Oliver gets back he's all ROBO Vigilante and bleh.

I'm just disappointed that he would make the same mistake with Barry that he already made once with Roy. Telling Roy to stay away from Thea only made her MORE vulnerable, and eventually less trusting in general. I thought Oliver had realized that he'd botched that one. And yeah, if anything, he and Felicity just seemed MORE in sync in this episode. More than they have since the premiere. But OK, just keep telling yourself that you don't get the girl, Oliver.

Well, I'm not sure how wrong he was there, given that it seems there are 20 Arrow episodes this season, and a 3-episode BC miniseries in the middle. :)