Carrie Ann

I am a John Noble fan, and a Fringe fan, and I absolutely loved him as Walter. But I hate his role on this show, and I don't think he's doing a particularly great job with it. Most of that is the fault of the writing, which has given Henry no nuance or subtlety at all. And that's the thing that made his portrayal of Walter Bishop so effective. Walter was an eccentric and prone to doing crazy things, but then he could just kill you with a tiny look. Just break your heart by twitching his eyebrow. There is none of that in Henry, so all we're seeing is hamminess. I mean, good for John, trying to make something memorable happen on screen, but it's just not working for me. As for the Emmy idea, I don't buy that being the reason for his casting at all. The reason he never got noticed for Fringe is that it was a genre show, and no one took it seriously. That couldn't be more true of Sleepy Hollow, despite its ratings and critical notice last year. There is basically no way anyone from this show would win an acting award for it, and I don't think anyone at SH is fooling themselves about that. But I do think the EPs were very fond of JN and wanted to work with him again because they know he can create magic on screen. They forgot that you need to do the work behind the camera as well.

Question: did Felicity imply that whoever did kill Sara was probably short? I didn't understand exactly what she was saying about the angle being not what you would expect from a typical bow or archer, but I thought that's what she meant. So: a) sick burn on Roy being pint-sized, and b) it was a woman, for sure, right? Wow, what a terrible episode, otherwise. I need them to quit writing John Diggle like this, just so that Oliver can have someone to argue against. And Felicity absolutely would have come to the same conclusion Oliver did, and wouldn't have been so quick to let Roy or anyone else believe that he'd killed Sara. Bad form, Show. And Laurel, well. I can't even get into it, honestly. The amount of blame and condescension and general assholery she throws around, while being wrong at every step, and the only person responsible for her current situation...it's astounding, really. Your heroine, ladies and gentlemen. Your leading lady. Your True Black Canary.

Sorry to be a crazy person, but the tweet about the teal t-shirt on the Succubus came at 8:21, according to the costume designer's Twitter feed, and that was the Hawley scene. I think in the tweet before that, she was just issuing a general warning to Ichabod because she ships Ichabbie, and that scene was where they and Katrina figure out it's a succubus and Katrina expositions about what a succubus does.

I find both "slow burn" and "one step forward two steps back" funny and incorrect in this case. Because if they were doing a slow burn, they wouldn't have had Oliver declare his love at the end of Season 2, and have their first date/first kiss one episode later. That's not a slow burn. The second part is funny because if you do the math, you're only going backwards. Which...ok, maybe that's accurate.

It also doesn't say much when one person or other involved with the show says this exact thing like every three weeks, every season, all season long.

The succubus is wearing an almost identical outfit to Abbie's in the bar scene with Hawley, including a teal v-neck, so maybe that's what the costumer's tweets were about. In the scene with Ichabod, she starts out at the club in a black top with buckles across the front, but when she's alone with him outside, she's wearing an outfit almost identical to Katrina's, including the aqua-colored corset top. FWIW, I liked that her outfits were never actually identical to the person she was mimicking. I thought that was a nice touch. But even as an Ichabbie shipper, I found absolutely nothing in the Ichabod/Succubus scene to relate to Abbie or their relationship, other than the fact that she said that his feelings for Katrina (presumably) had "soured in his heart." Yes, good. That head tilt above was I think just in relation to her realizing that she couldn't seduce him, and that she was just going to go for the direct attack. If it was a reference to Abbie, then cool, but I didn't see it like that.

Well, maybe it's time to present my grand unifying Season 3 wishful thinking theory, as it does involve my man John Diggle and how I would like his role to develop. So, in the present day, we're dealing with the LoA/Ras al Ghul as our overarching Big Bad. In the flashbacks, we have ARGUS/Amanda Waller forcing Oliver to be an assassin for them. Amanda and Ras seem to share certain values--the whole is more important than the individual; the ends justify the means; a general amorality. Details of how this all shakes out aside, what I would love for the end of this season is for Oliver to defeat both of these foes in the present day. Ras is defeated and the LoA is disbanded. Maybe Nyssa can determine which of its members should be brought into the fold and which should be imprisoned. And then, Amanda is removed from power at ARGUS, and the whole organization cleaned up. Perhaps Lyla can take over that job. Then I want Team Arrow and its associates to basically become their own task force, with Diggle at the head as the tactical and administrative leader. He can be the liaison between the Arrow task force and ARGUS: getting the missions or relaying that info to ARGUS, determining the approach and the "resources" required, etc., while also remaining an active operative of Task Force Arrow. It would mean he was getting paid to do a job worthy of him, using every aspect of his skills, protecting national security. Then I want Oliver's identity to be revealed within the government/law enforcement on a need-to-know basis, so that he's not in danger of legal action against him for his work as the Arrow. I don't want him publicly unmasked because that changes too much about the show, but it would ease some parts of his life if the things he does are sanctioned, and it would be nice, in a Class Protector Award way, if he could receive some recognition of his service to people. This would also parallel nicely with the premiere, and Lance announcing the end of the anti-vigilante brigade. What Task Force Arrow would do is allow some missions/cases to be handled by people other than Oliver. By Roy, by Thea, by the Suicide Squad, by now-freed members of the LoA, by Barry and anyone else who is spun off of this show. We don't need to see those missions on Arrow all the time, but we would know they were happening, and Oliver could move on with having a balanced life if he had that level of support and backup in place. It's basically moving toward a Justice League without actually calling it that yet, or infringing on what's happening on the other shows.

Agreed, and I have no concerns about him leaving.

On the other hand, if a person gets immunity multiple times, their overall body of work is smaller. Less for the judges to remember as they're choosing a final winner, or even deciding between two people to go home. Even the shows that claim to only look at that week's product--there's no way the judges aren't slightly swayed by past performance. So you could end up with a person in the finals who rarely cooked/designed/raced/whatever in the major challenges, because they were phenomenal at the immunity challenges. Right? I don't watch a lot of competitive reality stuff anymore, so maybe there are rules in place that prevent this.

Yeah, this was that crazy theory I was trying not to think too much about earlier in the season, but also not entirely willing to let go. My dream would be that Sara had to fake her death for some reason, preferably in league with Nyssa, so that they could both get free. But I don't believe she would let Laurel and Quentin (and Dinah) go through that again, unless their safety would be threatened, maybe?

I loved the amount of side-eye Abbie gave this episode, but it was all undermined by the fact that she had to come to the "realization" that Team Witness is stronger with Katrina as a part of it. No. Nope. And I really hated Crane standing between the fighting wimmins like they were about to box or something, and then having the audacity to act like they were the ones being irrational. He's the one who's causing this problem, by not being objective about Henry and by giving Katrina any sort of say over how Team Witness approaches anything at all. Wow, this episode pushed all my buttons, and not in the good way.

I actually thought the same thing, but the name has been in use since The Middle Ages, according to Wikipedia.

Based on the fact that Felicity worked for a week on predictive algorithms to get a match off a partial print they found on a piece of glass on the rooftop (the guy Oliver questioned at the beginning of Corto Maltese), I'd say that we should assume they checked everything for prints.

This is just the cutest thing.

He could be, but Fernlicity's grand return, right next to Felicity's chair in the foreground is what makes it feel like she's involved. Could be that he finds out about Thea and is mad and then decides he needs to find Felicity, to talk to someone instead of just raging, and then he sees the kiss. Episode 7 feels a little early for him to find out about Thea though, but that raging scene could come from any 3A episode.

Yeah, this is one of the reasons I love this show, despite its missteps and blind spots and flaws. It often gets these relationship dynamics right. Another great mother/child moment was last season--Moira crying to Oliver about how for five years she woke up every morning as the mother whose son had died, and how she couldn't go through that again; how as a mother you worry about how the outside world will hurt your children, never thinking about how you could hurt them. My throat just kind of closed up at that scene. This is the kind of drama I appreciate--things that feel natural and real, and spring from an authentic place. Anyway, Donna Smoak couldn't possibly be more different from my mom, but their conflict felt a little too close to home anyway because it's just kind of universal. It was smart to make Donna SO lovable and sunny, because Felicity being dismissive and judgmental of her put you on Donna's side, when we are so used to being on Felicity's. Not that I wasn't also on Felicity's, but it hurt to see her hurt Donna like that. That's why this episode worked, despite a weak villain. Because that Brother Eye business was just a framework so we could get a deeper understanding of Felicity, and so that she could show some growth.

I made a post like this in the season comparison thread, and you're right, this is just one more to add to the pile. I actually didn't look at future episode descriptions because I was afraid of what I would find...you know, things like this. Sigh.

Okay, I watched all of these episodes in quick succession, then read all these threads, and I'm not sure I followed all the details. So one more question, and I'm sorry if this has been covered and I missed it: If all the Original kids were to go along with Esther's plan, that would still kill their entire succession line of vampires, right? Their bodies would die, right? So even if Elijah (for example) could be convinced that he should become a human/witch because he doesn't want to be a monster anymore, would he really believe that all of the vampires in his line should die for that reason?

I know, right? When he said, "Can you just tell me what you want?" like she was being all mysterious and withholding, I was like, "An apology, to start with? An acknowledgment of how horrible you've been, how horrible you feel about the way you treated her? Anything in that line?" This is something I feel like the writers fell down on in Season 3 with Stefan and Elena. He was awful to her for 3/4 of that season. First as a Ripper, then as a hate-filled vengeance monster, and I never felt like he adequately apologized or atoned for that. We knew he felt guilty, and he acknowledged that she still loved him in spite of everything he'd done, and said "this is all my fault," referring to her falling for Damon too, but that's as far as it went. It was unsatisfying, as a viewer and former fan of that relationship. So that's not what I want here.

Replying in the Gina thread.

I'm a Gina fan too--there are a few of us out there. :) I prefer her when she resembles an actual human--a self-centered, skewed human, but human nonetheless. I loved the episode that revealed that she owns that apartment and is fiscally conscious, while Jake is a total child about finances. It was a surprising dimension to her character, and one I appreciated. Learning she was taking classes this season was similarly cool. It's not the expected route for her, but I believe it, and it makes her seem more grounded. If on the one hand, she's practical and pragmatic about her career and her money, and on the other hand she speaks in Emoji, then that second part is funnier. If all she is is a collection of quirks and abrasiveness, then I get bored. So I hope they continue to develop her character and don't just use her to make all the mean jokes.

I agree. All we've seen is her leaving the office for one reason or another, but we should assume she's been working at other times. Also, the very last scene when she gets "sick," Ray comes in saying, "I wanted to talk to you about these co-generation numbers" and he's looking at some charts on his tablet. After she walks out, he looks back at the tablet again and says, "That's actually pretty brilliant." I think we're supposed to assume she put that stuff together for him to review? It wasn't very clear, but that's what I'm going with. And someone else here compared it to the Pepper/Tony dynamic, and while I don't see Felicity as Pepper, trying to see Ray as a Tony type has really helped me to appreciate him. I like him as a character right now; I like BR's performance a lot; I don't like some of his actions in light of him being an LI for Felicity, so that's where I'm getting stuck. The boss/employee dynamic is always dicey for me in romantic storylines (which is why the "you're my partner" moment was great for Olicity, and in general I saw her job as his EA as a "secret identity" situation, so the dynamic was a part of the cover and therefore didn't bug me), but adding some of the stalking, overstepping stuff is just exacerbating that weirdness.

Yep, I totally agree. For at least the last year/season, Caroline and Stefan were probably the most important person in each other's lives. Damon and Elena spent all of Seasons 4 and 5 obsessing over each other and dismantling their relationships with Stefan, deprioritizing him in favor of each other over and over. Caroline was the constant in his life. Even when he had amnesia. They were best friends, but like in a real, deep sense, not in the drinking buddy Alaric/Damon sense. So he abandoned her while they were both grieving, and fully intended to just leave her behind forever without a word. He was able to talk to their other friends, but not to her. He has been terrible to her, repeatedly, and in myriad ways this season. Just because I understand why doesn't mean Caroline should just forgive him. That's what Elena does with Damon when he screws up because of his manpain. I was so glad they didn't take the easy way out and have Caroline just get over it and let it go as she has so many other things people have done. Stefan needs to earn her friendship back. He needs to put himself on the line for her and prove that he understands how much he hurt her. I'm about a thousand times more interested in seeing them rebuild that relationship than I am in seeing Delena 2: The Reckoning.

OK, I really don't get this Alaric thing. Why wouldn't he just revert to his vampire state when he leaves Mystic Falls? I thought it was because he "died" for a few seconds, and that reset things. But if he died, why wouldn't that end the compulsion Elena was under? I thought that was one of the ways that happened, but maybe I'm mixing up my TVD vampire mythology here. Otherwise, blehhhh I wish we never had to go back to Delena land. Damon's voicemail to Bonnie was the best part of the episode. Second best was Caroline telling Stefan she doesn't want to be his friend. Third was Alaric admitting he'd given up too. Could have done without basically everything else.

Esther's first body this season was Cassie's, and yeah, she was one of the Harvest Girls. Don't know about Finn and Kol.