General Days

Oh, yeah. If only they could find a way to film that and not pay them. Best. Show. Ever.

Meri made her wedding dress (which I think looks like a professionally made gown, or at least it photographed well). Janelle (who had been previously married to Meri's brother Adam) wore a dark blue dress to her reception, and Meri and she coordinated their outfits. Christine's mother, Annie, made her dress, but Anne was being shunned by the Allred family by then (for divorcing the old man and leaving the cult), including Christine. I don't even think Christine went to her mom's place for fittings. Annie could not attend the sealing, because she had left the faith, and I believe she was not included in the reception. (Annie was also heartbroken that her daughter was marrying into a situation she herself had escaped only a few years prior.) Mormon (both mainstream Latter-day Saints, and the Browns' fundy sect, the AUB) wedding ceremonies are different from mainstream Christian ones. Mormons have their union sealed in the temple, in a ceremony that only other baptized, adult Mormons with Temple Recommends can attend. I don't know the AUB's specific clothing dictates for weddings, but I would imagine they're at least as strict as those of the mainstream LDS church (read the LDS clothing requirements here). Janelle wouldn't have worn that dark dress during her sealing ceremony. She wore it to the small family reception after. Janelle would have worn white temple robes for the sealing itself. Kody would have been dressed all in white for all of his sealings, too. The bride and groom also wear green aprons, which I think it supposed to represent the fig leafs Adam and Eve covered themselves with after realizing they had sinned. I've cued up this video of a mainstream LDS sealing in the Temple to when the bride and groom approach the altar, so you can see what they wear. Meri and Christine's wedding gowns were modest enough that they might have worn their dresses for the sealing itself, as well as the reception after, provided the AUB doesn't make the brides wear Temple robes, and also allows sufficiently modest gowns. Although Robyn's gown had long sleeves, it did not cover her collar bones, so she couldn't have worn it to her ceremony (at least not without some insert that would cover the offending flesh). I honestly think Robyn just got a gown because TLC paid for stuff, since they featured the wedding reception on the show. The Live Chat is still on the first page. It's just quite a bit of the ways down, because it hasn't been open in a couple of weeks (the schedule hasn't been all that clear). For at least one of the One-on-One episodes (formerly Tell Alls), we had our live chat at the beginning of the episode thread. Here's a direct link to the live chat thread. I hope that helps.

I do not have TLC Go, but I do have cable. The specials, so far, have run on the regular TLC cable channel (and I've recorded them with my DVR). I don't know whether that means you can get them via Hulu or not (do you have Hulu Live or something?). Originally, I was going to link you to the TLC schedule, but it's all screwed up (it reuses old episode titles for these specials and doesn't include the "Talk Back" or "Look Back" language), so it would have just confused the issue. Upcoming Specials: Friday, December 29, 2023 at 9:00pm to 10:11pm Eastern: "Talk Back Part 2" | NEW Friday, December 29, 2023 at 10:11pm to 11:11pm Eastern: "Look Back: How It Started" | I believe this is a rerun of the new special that first aired on Christmas Eve, but my DVR schedule has marked it new, so I'm not positive Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 10:06pm to 11:06pm "Look Back: How It's Going" | NEW

Not to talk you into a rewatch — I skip those episodes too, but early on in the catfish revelations, Meri did admit to being in love or thinking she was in love or feeling love for the fake persona. She did say "friend," in this episode, and it drove me nuts, but she didn't say "just a friend," so her use of "friend" felt to me to be more of a euphemism. When she said it, after I pushed down the urge to throw a shoe at my TV, it did feel to me like she knew it wasn't the right word, but that she didn't know what to call it (at least not in any way that wouldn't be more even embarrassing to her). Sam wasn't her lover, even her cyber-lover, because Sam didn't exist. I can see how in Meri's eye, that means there was no emotional affair, because her affair partner never existed. Only the person who victimized her exists. I got the sarcasm the first time I watched it. Meri was giggling and rolling her eyes when she said it (usually her wit is drier). I think we've just been watching her (especially, but all of the OG3 to some extent) be fools for so long, that when one of them makes some sort of joke about wanting Kody's love, it's easy to miss that it's a joke. It feels more in character for them to be suckers than comedians. I agree. J.O. (the catfish) targeted Meri right on Twitter, (with several personas, because Sam had "friends" who were tweeting at Meri too, and they were all figments of J.O.'s mental disease). She hit it off with the Sam persona on Twitter in the public eye and it felt like friendship at first. It just turned fake romantic really quick. It's not like she went on Tinder or Ashley Madison. I see a lot of fannish discussions that frame it as if she went looking, when really she was just the dupe. I like @Madding crowd's take on this.

I agree that Mykelti's might be the saddest story of all. It's certainly up there. I think she was odd man out of the big kids, and a little too old for the middle kids especially since Hunter, who is younger than Mykelti, seemed to fit in fine with the big kids (brotherly tensions with Logan aside). Recently, Mykelti said something that made me wonder if Meri's verbal abuse of her happened in the greater context of Leon and Mykelti's sibling struggles. In one of her more recent watch parties, Mykelti said that she and Leon probably butted heads the most out of her "sisters." I'm not trying to misgender Leon, and I don't think Mykelti was, either. The context was such that another patron asked something like, "Which of your sisters did you clash the most with?" Mykelti kind of acknowledged (maybe more with gestures than words) that it was awkward to use "sister" in that context, and maybe then switched to "sibling," but at any rate, she was talking about how it was for her in childhood. She did say she and Leon have talked out their childhood struggles and they're all good, now. Mykelti said she and Maddie clashed too, but that she clashed the most with Leon. She and Madison are close now. I think Mykelti also tries to stay close to Leon. I remember her saying (in an earlier video) that she was possibly hosting Leon and Audrey for Thanksgiving, but I don't know if they were able to come, and can't remember if Mykelti ever talked about Thanksgiving after the fact. I was a little surprised Mykelti didn't mention her tension with Aspyn. I remember the episode where they confessed they had some real doozies of fights, including at least one in which they threw knives at each other. Sometimes, I understand why Robyn didn't ask the other moms to mind her kids.

Just a miniscule defense of Robyn here: some of that is how some of us age. I have frown lines. I'm getting a tiny bit jowly. When I'm not actively smiling, it looks like I'm frowning, because the corners of my mouth have moved south. If I smiled all the time, I'd look like I was crazy. It drives me nuts too, but it's just their regional accent. Over the summer, Christine, David, Truely, Aspyn, Mitch, Mykelti, and Ysabel went to UK. Mykelti put some videos of their trip up on her Patreon. She pronounced "Wales" more like "Wells." Kody is awful, isn't he? I really do think he is a narcissist, or has some other pathology at play. I don't want to see the show end yet, but I'd like to see it adapt to the reality of its cast members' lives. Since Christine announced her intention to leave Kody, and moved his hoarded belongings out of her house, I think the overall storyline has gotten more interesting. There's been something to root for — that is, the the departures of Janelle and Meri, too. It's the storytelling that I find lacking. The production needs to change it up a little. It also maybe needs to demand some group meetings and interviews with the adults. These people are all money hungry grifters who know they'll never earn this much cash again. I think they'll give into pressure if it's applied right. It's not the same show without the whole family (or at least all of the adults) getting together to do things (even contrived meetings), but the production hasn't changed the formula much. Why wish for the show's demise, though? I don't mean this in a snarky way, so I hope it doesn't come across as such: you can just stop watching, and it's over for you, but those of us who are still interested can keep watching.

The consensus on Reddit seems to be that Meri's friend Jen gave it to her/made it for her as a funny gift, which seems like it could be true. It also makes me wonder whether the Davenport is a real name change, or just Jen being silly.

I've been sick for a few days. So far, I've tested negative for Covid (which I had back in September, and I haven't been exposed -- I've hardly been out and no one in the house is sick). I don't have a fever and don't feel like I felt when I had Covid. I think it might just be a sinus infection, but I feel awful. I've been cooking for the past couple of days. I'm finally done with everything that could be done ahead of time. Usually I do lasagna, or either roast beef or ham. This year, I'm doing lasagna and turkey, even though we just had turkey on Thanksgiving. A family member is on a very strict medically indicated elimination diet for an autoimmune disease (too much to explain). Usually, the only meat they can have is chicken breast, or lean fish (once a week). Their dietician said they could do turkey breast tomorrow. I always make too much food, so this year, I just bought a good sized turkey breast (like 5lbs), and then a half or split turkey breast to roast. I almost got two of the frozen whole breasts. I should have. I roasted the full one off this morning, and it came out beautifully, thank goodness. Late this afternoon, I went to roast off the smaller one, and the skin underneath had these black spots that could only be described as mold. My husband and daughter agreed, so we tossed that. (Husband didn't feel like waiting on line at the store for a $15 refund, and I don't blame him.) All the full turkey breasts at the grocery were frozen, so I had him get me two 3lb Polish hams (I didn't want an enormous bone in ham, what with the lasagna and the turkey.) I'll decide in the morning whether to heat up one or both. I'm just feeling discouraged, because no matter how organized I am, and how much I stay on top of my schedule (I was both this year, despite feeling sick), something messes up. (I wanted to use a word other than "messes" there.) I think I'm just weepy, because of the sinus infection, or whatever. I'm skipping the family Christmas Eve celebration at my SIL's. We haven't been since Covid began. Although I tested negative, I still want to test again tomorrow, before mixing with people outside my house. SIL said for husband and kids to come anyhow. She'd be fine with me coming, tbh. I'm about the only careful person left in the family, but I'd still feel terrible if I got someone sick. So, I'm going to hop in the shower, throw on clean PJs, heat up my leftover takeout, and feel sorry for myself, until my family gets home. (They would have stayed home, but I couldn't see the sense in them hanging out to watch me blow my nose. Besides, I have all this food, yet nothing to feed them tonight. SIL will stuff them full.) I just have missed my husband's family's Christmas Eve celebrations so much. I kind of hit the in-law lottery, and I miss their company. The last time I went to one was in 2019. So anyhow, boo hoo. I'll be fine. It's just self-pity. Maybe I'll take some Tylenol before I shower. I hope you all have a lovely night, whether you celebrate or not.

I agree with the overall premise of your post. The gaslighting is astounding. About these two points I've quoted above: I think Kody has only implied that Janelle and Christine chased him. He has said he courted Meri and Robyn. (I think he even said it this season, or perhaps he said it in season 17.) He may well have said the opposite too though, and I just tuned him out. I have a really hard time listening to him, because most of what he says is b.s. Even when I try to listen my brain won't absorb it. About Meri pursuing Robyn while she was married -- I'm wondering if I missed something (again, I can't always take in all the b.s.). Robyn and Preston got a legal separation in 2007. Their divorce was finalized in 2009. I think the dance Meri and Kody met Robyn at was after her divorce (and she and Preston weren't living as man and wife for a couple of years prior). Did something new come to light?

I grabbed all the relevant relevent posts from the S18.E18 thread (note to people who find this later: the board was down while this was airing, due to a complicated forum upgrade).

From IMDb: The episode features new footage as Kody, Robyn, Meri, Janelle, and Christine watch select scenes from S18.E01, "No Such Thing As a Free Lunch," and respond to viewer questions. Numbering note: on the TLC website, they have it as a second version of S18.E01, but with a new title, and a lot of new footage. Episode aired on TLC, Friday, December 22, 2023

Okay, I'll grab it. Thread is here:

Should we open a thread for this Sister Wives: Talk Back Part 1 episode? I noticed Scarlett opened a (still-locked) thread for the new episode that airs on Christmas Eve?

In her slim defense, he is an idiot.

I can't find support for some of the following: On January 15, 2021 (the night before her 50th birthday), Meri published a post on Instagram, in which she mentioned her kid finishing "college, both undergrad and masters" (note: Leon wasn't publicly identifying as trans or using the name "Leon," or "they/them" yet). I'm pretty sure @ginger90 has posted this in the past. I suppose Meri could have been lying, but it would be silly to outright lie when (1) getting a Bachelor's is plenty to be proud of, (2) Meri wasn't answering a direct question, but rather offering up an unsolicited summary of the past decade, and (3) a gloss, like "finished college" or "school" would do. https://www.instagram.com/p/CKFwpYIlp-M/?hl=en (I think embeds don't work here, so here are screenshot.) What makes you say they apparently never attended class? Were they supposed to photograph themselves attending class to prove to the fans of a show they never got paid to do, that they were attending class? Also, Leon didn't post daily (or even weekly, or monthly) pictures of extravagant and expensive breakfasts in Chicago. It looks like they did the occasional breakfast/brunch out, but not at extravagant places. From Leon's Instagram (NOTE: The oldest of these examples is from five and a half years ago, the newest is from early 2020 -- so almost four years ago): 2018: Audrey having matcha, July 18, 2018: https://www.instagram.com/p/BlZdU26g6te/?hl=en Brunch out, May 6, 2018 (one person's plate has some sort of salad on toast, the other has french toast, it's not like they were eating Ortolan while hooded): https://www.instagram.com/p/BicnS1uAjoQ/?hl=en Coffee, September 2018: https://www.instagram.com/leointhemountains/?hl=en Takeout bakery coffee at night, October 2018: https://www.instagram.com/p/BpVyDklAUH2/?hl=en 2019: New Year's Day Brunch, January 1, 2019 (one person has eggs over some mushy shit, the other has some sort of burger): https://www.instagram.com/p/BsGjMYAF-fw/?hl=en Brunch at a coffee shop (location tagged), March 9, 2019 (very pretty waffle for one person, french toast for the other, and a plate of breakfast potatoes): https://www.instagram.com/p/BuzO8OQltmo/?hl=en Coffee, June 27, 2019: https://www.instagram.com/p/BzPD-rnlupd/?hl=en Eating grapes from a plastic bag, in the park, on their birthday, July 29, 2019: https://www.instagram.com/p/B0hTTn-lXdn/?hl=en (A lovely commenter replied: "You look like you could use a hot bath and a mani-pedicure. You always look cruddy." Sheesh. And someone "liked" that comment. Not to mention, I think that's a cute pic of pre-transition Leon, who noted they had spent the day crying. People suck.) Out for a date of vegan hot dogs after work, August 26, 2019: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1obJdUFhlC/?hl=en (Was there ever a sadder phrase than "vegan hot dogs"?) Coffee and a scone before work, September 20, 2019: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2pKBcil3xC/?hl=en Homemade pumpkin bread at home, November 28, 2019: https://www.instagram.com/p/B5a4fD3FiTO/?hl=en The above is seven times in a year, some are just coffee. Is a grad student who works part time, and lives with someone who works full time never allowed to go out for breakfast? It's a pretty cheap date for a meal, until you start going to brunches with champagne, and shrimp, and a carving board, which would be extravagant, but is not what Leon and Audrey did. 2020: The following three entries seem like a lot in one week, until you look at what they had (and remember the biggest meal they cooked at home) Homemade breakfast at home, February 11, 2020: https://www.instagram.com/p/B8b7yBOlq0B/?hl=en Coffee and croissant out at a coffee shop (location tagged), February 12, 2020: https://www.instagram.com/p/B8fOMJJF_ej/?hl=en Brunch out (french toast for 2 and potatoes), February 16, 2020: https://www.instagram.com/p/B8pOICaFJ-9/?hl=en Then they never posted another meal out, probably because of the pandemic. Leon and Audrey gave up their Chicago apartment in early 2020, quarantined with Meri in Flagstaff for a couple of weeks, then went to help out Grandma Bonnie at the B&B (who I think took off for Flagstaff, for a little while). Eventually, they decided to stay in Utah for a while, and honestly, I'm not sure if Leon got their Masters from Loyola remotely, or if they transferred to a Utah university. There was probably no graduation ceremony because of the pandemic. I know Mykelti, Tony, and Gwen have said that Leon and Audrey were super careful about Covid. They lived near Mykelti for a while (after M&T's move to Lehi, I think). If you Google "Leon Brown Promise South Salt Lake" you'll see reports that Leon was a program manager there (it's some sort of social service organization). I also have a dim memory of Leon and Audrey saying on the show that they decided to live in Utah, because Audrey was having a hard time with depression and they thought they would feel better there. (I feel like this was before Audrey and Leon's transitions, or at least before they went public.) Does anyone remember that? How do you know it was all talk/no action? I'd disagree with the "preached endlessly" aspect. Leo is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from most of the family. Leon was vocal about causes they believe in, for a while. I have shot off my mouth about politics on social media, and am old enough to be Leon's mother. They got political on social media over LGBTQ+ issues, which makes sense given the background they came out of, as well as their gender identity and sexuality. It also makes sense after having learned about their falling out with Paedon, who deadnamed and misgendered them, implied they transitioned for attention, and later bragged that he (Paedon) got more attention (at Logan's wedding) for his job as a strip club bouncer than Leon got for coming out. I believe the Paedon/Leon falling out was originally in wake of the George Floyd murder. We're not supposed to get political on here, so I'll just note they took the sides of the issue we would expect each of them to take. Again, how do you know it was all talk/no action? I feel like we know next to nothing about Leon's life. I can't find anything in the press about the emotional support animal thing. Most of the best links go right back to this thread. I searched on the name Leon was given at birth, as well as Audrey's name. If you can find one, would you please share it here? I do see Audrey complained, Southwest told her to DM them, and she thanked them. (Audrey did let them know the proper spelling of their name.) Leo's account seems to be set to private, so I can't see what they posted, if anything.

I agree. First of all, I agree that Kody is getting scary. Re: the "trash talking," this would never, ever happen, but they should let fans submit questions, like they did in the early seasons. It's regarding exactly this kind of stuff that the production has failed the audience (and 3 out of 5 Brown parents). I used to cringe when some fan would waste a question asking how Kody could keep the three women satisfied in the bedroom. I think I'd pop champagne today, if a fan could go at Kody (and really all of the parents) with real questions and some receipts. The production has those receipts They could trot out the nachos story from the disappeared episode. Christine and David trolled Kody about it on Instagram, so it's fair game now, in my eyes. They could trot out the far more recent comments Kody has made about never having been in love with Christine, never having been attracted to Christine, and how he married Christine for clout in the AUB. I could go on and on about this. It drives me crazy. I'm not a man, but a young man with a healthy libido can usually perform. He might think about someone else, and might have to get things going on his own, but if he shuts off the lights, closes his eyes, and just lets himself feel the pleasant sensations, he can do it. I do believe that Kody lived a relatively chaste life when he was LDS, and I don't think even Kody and Robyn had sex prior to their sealing. In the AUB, premarital sex for a man who already had other wives would be adultery, and I think it could rule him out of getting a planet, etc. When the show opened, I think Kody was a true believer, and he wouldn't have harmed his eternal fate for sex, when he could make do with what he had at home, until he nabbed the prize. I do suspect though, that Kody and Robyn were sealed prior to the day of the "wedding" episode on the show, and that they might have already been sealed when he was driving 4-5 hours from Lehi to St. George, and back. I went off on a tangent there. My point in mentioning his sexual purity is that, because he wasn't a man of vast sexual experience when he married Meri, he was just plain old eager to get some. Then, regardless of his level of attraction to Janelle and Christine, it would have been exciting for this relatively sexually pure young man to get to do it with someone else. And in Janelle's case, she had been married before. He wasn't dealing with a scared virgin/newly deflowered 19 year old, or a 22-year-old AUB princess who spent most of her time in the fairy tale world in her head. He was dealing with a woman who had some experience and a healthy sexual appetite. Also, Kody's cruel streak has been on display for probably at least the last 5 seasons. The no-presents-for-Meri Christmas story and the melted-wedding-ring story make me think he has always had a cruel streak. It's possible Kody got off on knowing he was hurting his other wives by acting "in love" and having sex with the other women. Many of us think Kody is a narcissist too, right? Regardless of whether he would be diagnosed as such, he certainly has some traits and tendencies. He might also just find the women competing for his attention exciting, as well as the idea of inciting jealousy in whichever wives he wasn't with, because that would make it all about Kody, which is Kody's favorite thing. He also used sex (and its withdrawal) as a means of controlling and manipulating those women, and that would get him off, too. I know this isn't what you asked, but I just want to note that Kody absolutely trash talked Christine to the kids -- maybe not face to face, but he used the show to do it, and he did it to humiliate Christine. I don't consider most of what Christine said to be trash talk, so much as quoting. I'm not sure it's a healthy conversation to have with the adult children whom you share with your ex, but quoting differs from trash talk. I think Kody considers quoting trash talk, because Kody is deathly allergic to blame. If you indicate, in any way, that Kody bears responsibility for a situation, he will accuse you of trash talking. He sometimes claims to take responsibility on the show, but he usually then twists the situation, so that he's just saying the words, and foisting the blame off on a wife, or the fates, or his faith, or whatever.

Oh, I hope it passes quickly for you, @Teafortwo. I'm sorry you'll be out of commission for the holiday.

That's hilarious! Also hilarious! Right? Kody trashes Christine all the time. To the extent that Kody doesn't trash Christine to the (OG13) kids, it's only that none of them will talk to him. (Okay, that's not exactly true, but it is true in my heart.) Christine's older girls (i.e. not Truely) knew their mom wasn't being treated right. They maybe didn't know about the end of intimacy, but they saw how he treated her (and them) in comparison to Robyn (and her children), and they told Christine how they felt about it. I believe this happened long before Christine talked about anything with them. I am pretty sure Christine started talking to them (and to Maddie) about it, only once she had made up her mind to leave and needed to summon her courage to do it.

I feel like older kids flying the nest is just normal and healthy families adapt and change. They don't crumble. Of course, the family was missing that glue the older kids provided, once things started deteriorating. A family with 5 parents and 18 kids is going to require a heck of a lot more glue than a two-parent family with a more normal number of kids. I also overstated my point. When I posted "As this episode shows, it crumbled because while was too risky for Kody to let Sol and Ari hug Truely, it was peachykeen for him to travel to a wedding, where he officiated, danced, and celebrated, and didn't quarantine after," I meant it as an example, but I worded it like I meant it was the sole reason. My bad. I reworded that several times before hitting submit, and it's not better for it. I totally got that. I was just agreeing with you about having a soft spot for Truely. I have one too. I think a lot of us do, even if spellcheck hates the spelling of her name.

That's right. This year, the tell-all was filmed in July. I can't remember where I saw this (maybe Reddit, but maybe someone just mentioned it on Mykelti's watch party or something), but you know at the beginning of each segment of the One on One, after they come back from commercial, how they'll sort of show the set, and sometimes cameras and monitors from the director's point of view, then zoom in on the interview set with Suki and whichever Brown? Someone saw a July date on a screen, or a clapperboard, or something and shared a screenshot of it. Gwendlyn got married on July 15th. All of the parents were in town for it, so it is possible they came to town early enough ahead of the wedding, or stayed long enough after the wedding, to do the One on Ones during the same trip. I am hoping with the special episode that is supposed to air in January, that will bump the timeline up to at least October 2023. The lag has done the series no favors.

Oh, I still think Maddie was throwing shade at Meri. I do love that clip, though. I remember when it aired, because impressed that even some of the Brown teenagers (including more sullen ones like Mykelti and Leon) got in on the fashion show, and let themselves be silly and enjoy it (on camera).

That's a great answer, ladle. I am never sure how to respond if someone asks me if something I've said is PC, particularly when it involves my own kiddos. "PC" can feel so loaded to me. To my knowledge, only Dayton and Gwendlyn have been diagnosed on the autism spectrum. Gwen, who reports receiving her autism diagnosis at 19, calls herself "neurospicy," which always makes me smile. I feel like Truely is fandom's baby. We've watched her grow up from the comfort of our own living rooms. In theory, the same is true of Sol and Ari, but I think Robyn has kept them off camera more as time has gone one. I totally get what you mean about taking Truely away from her extended family structure, but the structure was dying in Flagstaff, even before the dawn of Covid, which just finished the job. Flagstaff is just where the structure is buried. As this episode shows, it crumbled because while was too risky for Kody to let Sol and Ari hug Truely, it was peachykeen for him to travel to a wedding, where he officiated, danced, and celebrated, and didn't quarantine after. Ugh. He can make me so angry. I did feel bad for Truely with regard to the divorce and move, but I also feel like she's getting more love and family time in Utah than she would have in Flagstaff. Plus, when she now visits Flagstaff, Kody does spend time with her. Also now, she has a happy mother. Right? That was a thing of beauty, wasn't it? I was really impressed. I wouldn't have thought Christine would have it in her.

Okay, this is the episode thread, so we're staying in here, but for all those who avoid it, the watch-n-post Live Chat portion of the discussion is over. Let the official Sister Wives S18.E18 episode discussion begin.

Yeah, and good on Christine for using it!

Meri also knows, I would think, that Paedon, Mykelti, and Maddie don't want a relationship with her, and that Christine would of course chose the kids over one of the other sister wives. I'm still not convinced Janelle won't end up back with Kody.