rab01

What's "GA" and "GN"? (Is GN the graphic novel?) They love to play tricks on both audiences - the comics readers and non-readers. If they were to mess with the comics readers by changing the comics scene to Jessie cutting off one son's hand after he's been bit to save the other son, that would be both the darkest thing I've seen on TV in years and would (for me) earn her a place next to Carol in the list of people who know the cost of living in the ZA. If they went there, then Jessie can be comics-Andrea or comics-Maggie, whichever she wants. As for who gets Lucilled, I have no clue at this point. I do think Glenn would be a huge fail on their parts. The character's death is supposed to make you hate Negan. Glenn's death would just make everyone hate the showrunners for excessive bullshit. The hatred would still be their but it would be misdirected (for Show purposes that is)

I just caught this show last night and enjoyed it. It's not quite as restful and charming as the British original but I really think that's just the lack of English accents and the commercial breaks. For some reason, a blubbery mess of a contestant bothers me less on an English show than on an American show. It seems odd that it's cheaper to fly the contestants and most of the judges to England rather than use a studio in the U.S but I can understand Mary being the one nearly irreplaceable element. The closest American equivalent I can think of is Sherry Yard, who has suddenly started popping up all over Food Network but seems to have a friendly persona to go with a ton of pastry experience and awards. In defense of the contestants, losing the week to practice will make anybody seem to be much less capable than their cross-Atlantic counterparts.

If y'all are disappointed in the changes to Morgan since he became a regular, just wait until you see what happens with Wolf.

In the writers' defense, this fight progressed more like the fight with the wolf he captured, ending in him knocking his opponent unconscious. The difference was really his opponent's level of determination. [note to self - stop defending the writers -- now, I need a shower]

It's really easy for this show to get me to like people more - just have them start killing stuff. We all hated Jessie less as soon as she scissored that wolf, The only time I really disliked Rick was during his farmer phase and trying to keep a gun from Carl; On the fence about Deanna? Kill some walkers and I'm her biggest fan. Rosita and Tara didn't shoot the wolf? I started disliking them again. So FPP starts to stand in there in the walker killing business and I'm not praying for his death quite as hard. Have i I mentioned that the morality of this Show (and my fan interaction with it) is f'ed up? ;)

That's exactly what we've had this half-season. In fact, that would make for a decent season-synopsis. Are you bored of what we just saw or what we think will be coming up in the second half? Personally, I just want them to tell their stories a little better. I think this was a pretty good season sabotaged by Schrodinger's Glenn.

Completely agree with everything you said but I snipped out that one line because I really resent whenever the show so trashes its own continuity that we have to attribute the character's actions to (literally) being brain damaged. As for the murderous antagonists, this situation is worse than a failed state because there are no familial, tribal, clan or religious ties holding groups together either. In a real world failed state there are still some of those moderating influences in place. Also, the people who live in high-conflict areas are born into those areas and sometimes into those conditions (many modern failed states have had prior violent periods within recent memory) but everyone in the ZA is a former real estate agent or pizza delivery guy trying to figure out how to survive without grocery stores. I've always thought that Kirkman was heavily influenced by Thomas Hobbes when he built this world; y'know: "In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short"

If you're talking about Dunk and Egg (A knight of the seven Kingdoms), I think it's just a collection of previously published stories so it shouldn't get even the most rabid of his fans angry. I personally swore off the Ice and Fire books until the series is finished because I don't trust GRRM to finish it and I kept losing all recollection of the side characters in the years between books.

I was going to say something sarcastic about a fight being such a major topic of discussion in the shipping thread but then I realized that this fight was more personal contact with another human than either character has had in Alexandria and that this fight operated exactly like sex does in this Show. On TWD, two characters instantly look less sympathetic, look less likable and become less interesting as soon as they hook-up (e.g., Shane and Lori, the Governor and Andrea, Abe and anything, and even twu wuv Glenn and Maggie). They managed to do the same exact thing here -- Morgan looks more crazy and Carol looks less effectual. They contorted themselves to engineer a fight where both people were in the wrong and somehow bodyslamming a concussed person into concrete was the least terrible consequence of it. It reverses the usual pattern of hitting someone making the character look better (e.g. Michonne knocking out Rick, Jessie killing the wolf). Sometimes, this is a really weird show ;)

Carl is also just plain smart. If Carl had killed Ron, it would have messed things up between Rick and Jessie and Carl knows what's going on with his dad. If Carl had ratted him out, Ron would just get more resentful and hard to handle because you know for certain that Jessie wouldn't punish him on Carl's say-so. Carl's pretty sure he can handle Ron so why even try to rat him out in the middle of a zombie attack? Carl will let people know if he thinks there is a moment where it's necessary. Sure there's a risk but there's a risk in everything these days. yup, we need some spoiler tags going up over everything that's more than just Negan's name. Carl was pretty much as annoying as Ron when he was first introduced so maybe there's hope for Ron? [/looking on the bright side]

I think Daryl's character makes sense if the character is a few decades younger than the Norman Reedus. Daryl grew up in the backwoods with his domineering and very crude older brother, right? I bet that Merle interfered with every girl that a teenaged Daryl was interested in by just being around and being all Merle all over the place. I also suspect that Merle was the kind of character who bought Daryl a night with a prostitute for Daryl's first time and that Daryl couldn't say no. If Daryl were attracted to guys, he'd have known that Merle would have beaten the crap out of him and possibly murdered the other guy. That kind of childhood could lead someone sensitive like the Daryl we've seen to become very shy and awkward around any woman that he really likes and to treat them like stained glass because he has no idea how to behave around them. I think that would explain why Daryl seemed so interested in Carol in the prison but he never turned it into a physical relationship. If my sense is close, Daryl will work great as a partner with someone but it will have to be that person who makes the first move (and possibly the second and third moves as well). The reason I say this works if Daryl the character is in his late 20's is that I can't picture Daryl living for 4 decades in that sort of situation without some period of separation and becoming his own man in between.

I want to defend Tovah's comments about the kids of powerful women. It's not comfortable and it's not entirely PC but it has a grain of truth. The children of very rich and successful people are quite often fucked up. Many of them end up in therapy from a pretty early age. Sure there are plenty of kids of the rich and powerful that end up being strong and stable people but it's not wrong to say that there are some issues that are more prevalent in that group of kids. That she phrased it as being about a mother is because she was playing a mother.

I've got to speculate about this here because I don't want actual spoilers -- this can't be the real introduction to Negan's group, right? This is just Kirkman fucking with the comics readers, isn't it? We all know that there is no way that Kirkman gives up on the Lucille intro but that scene can't happen without a large number of people from the group being present. It also doesn't make sense that 3 very experienced killers like Sasha, Daryl and Abraham decided to just get out unarmed when they have an RPG in their truck so ... we are going to have them get back into their car to start unloading it and then they are going to slaughter this band of bikers and we'll get the real Negan intro later in the season, right?

They are really fucking up their pacing and seem to believe that we all want cliffhangers because this was a crappy MSF but would have been a decent regular episode. Just like Morgan's backstory was a decent episode by itself but was a complete disaster where they placed it in the season. On reflection, I noticed a couple of odd things that I don't think have been discussed yet: 1) For the blocking of the scenes with the Wolf, Denise must have agreed to be locked up in the room with the Wolf until Morgan got back. Who the fuck would ever do that? And, why would Morgan have thought it was in any way OK to ask her to do it? She didn't and he wouldn't; it was all just hand-wavy necessary to set the scene. 2) I don't think we ever heard Deanna's gun shots from Rick, Michonne and Carl's perspectives. If that's right, with all the jump cuts and time shifts in this season, it's not impossible that the noise she made will save Sam's life. (I wouldn't count on it because I agree with Jason Alexander on TD that that kid should be dead but it's not beyond the pale for this show.) 3) Sam was spending his time drawing a picture of himself being tied to a tree, which gratifies me because I thought that Carol had crossed a line with her threat to Sam last season and now we are seeing it bear fruit in this episode. 4) Why is Eugene reading a world history textbook If he's supposed to be the resident scared guy? He shouldn't have been calmly reading a book; instead, he should have been staring out the windows, pacing and trying to think of ways to live ... Some positives about this episode: 1) Carl's scenes with Ron: Both actors nailed their roles perfectly and Carl said exactly what everyone's been thinking, Also, everything they did made sense (at least to me). Ron was pretty sure that they were all going to die anyway and was blaming Rick for it (something that many people on this board do too). That Rick actually isn't at fault for the clusterfuck this time isn't something that his character would automatically see. 2) Tara's scenes - she's bringing it 3) The zombies flooding the house trope. I've missed it on the show and it was fun to have it come back 4) Deanna's farewell: Of course, she was going to die. There was no place farther for her character to go that wouldn't displace the plot functions of one of the regular cast members. But, her scenes with Michonne and her farewell scream of defiance were really great.

Damn, how did they manage to do a massive herd incursion that still involved mainly waiting around? And where the only death was the woman who has been wearing a "kill me" sign pinned to her back for the past month? I have to admit that the show surprised me with the wolf. I thought there was no way that the wolf could cause harm now that Carol already knew about him last episode. I never thought the show would be dumb enough to give her a concussion just to make the situation almost plausible.

JBody - I don't think Darabont was heading towards the rest of the world being fine because he said the opposite in the CDC episode. But he might have been heading toward that sad twist ending of Rick Grimes killing his friends and family right before the government restores order. I think Kirkman's ending might be that the world recreates civilization despite never curing the zombie plague. Society gets all the way back to democracy and electricity if maybe not as far as the industrial revolution. The sad twist is that by then Rick can't function inside a law and order society and ends up imprisoned for a semi-justified vigilante style murder. His sentence is commuted because he's still a hero to a lot of people and then he goes over the edge again, realizes it, and kills himself rather than endanger others. On that version, Rick is like a ZA-Moses; he can lead his people to the promised land of peace and restored civilization but can't enter it himself.

I know this is the wrong thread but I never quite figured out why the Grady episodes sucked so hard. It should have been a good setting for conflict - an almost functioning post-ZA society that's not eeeeeeeevil but very dark gray whose interests conflict with those of CDB. Why didn't it work?

Isn't that exactly what they tried to do with the Hospital arc?

I'd rather not lose either of them as well. It's not, however, illegal for TWD to kill off Tara because the actress is pregnant. Her appearance is a necessary part of her work so if a pregnancy does not fit the story line, they are allowed to let the actress go. But her pregnancy isn't a death sentence, with such a large cast they can just shoot around her.

If they have a couple packs of assorted balloons, how hard is it to sort them? Glenn came up to the green balloons less than 24 hours after they were put up (with all the flashbacks, it's hard to remember how small a slice of time we're covering). If that's too long, I guess we have to grant them access to some of that hi-float stuff. At least it's not hard to believe that party supply stores wouldn't have been looted too hard.

This Negan will be different from comics Negan. I hope he'll be a lot different but even if he's only slightly different, they HAVE to change that stupid choosing speech from the comics because it made no damn sense. If Rick is in the group that is captured and he acts anywhere close to how Rick actually is, Rick gets Lucilled - no ifs, and, or buts. By the way, that speech, the harem and returning Carl are the reasons I dread the Negan storyline. Negan is supposed to be at least moderately clever and all three of those are self-defeatingly stupid (particularly leaving Rick alive out of fear of "creating a martyr"). If the show changes those 3 things, I have no problems with the Negan stuff. Anyway, why shouldn't Negan kill a woman from this cast? I agree that they need him to be vicious and brutal so why not "go there"? I don't think there could be a more brutal entrance than bludgeoning to death a pregnant woman so ... (No, I don't want Maggie to die nor do I think it will happen but ... *shrug*)

Heh, the dangers of hanging around message boards ;) They like to change expectations slightly from the comics while keeping the same general arc and some of the same beats so I think they might have him Lucille one of the women. If he were to kill Maggie, Tara, or Rosita, it would fulfill pretty much the same job as Glenn or Daryl. (I don't think Morgan would be sufficiently upsetting to be impactful.) It is also slightly possible that Negan doesn't kill anyone on the first meeting and they wait until a few episodes after he's introduced - just when we are all just starting to wonder if they changed him completely.

Honestly, I liked this episode. All the characters acted like themselves, plus we got major characters talking to each other about stuff that matters along with a ramp up of tension that paid out with the tower falling - a fall that they set up weeks ago (albeit only a day earlier in the show's universe). For example, Spencer's move may have seemed idiotic but then he's a self-important, entitled, moronic, glory-hound (i.e., a born politician). He saw himself as the heir to Alexandria but notices his mother preparing to cede the crown to Rick and tried something incredibly public and heroic to change the political dynamics. This episode also left me wtith some guesses about the mid-season finale and some earlier stuff. A guess as to the future - given how the show works so hard to try to "surprise" us, I think that the captured wolf will somehow end up saving somebody's life in the MSF. If he had escaped before the walls went down, or Carol hadn't found out about him, I could see it going very badly instead but now the only "surprise" use he has left is to end up being useful and then dying. I think that fits their pattern perfectly. -- Also, they've now shown Morgan's philosophy explicitly endangering Rick and the community so now they will feel it's time for it to seem useful. (They love to pretend it's an even-handed debate.) A guess as to the past -- Rick's look of defeat in the van while the walkers closed in on him wasn't personal. I now understand why AL acted that way if the Show wasn't even going to bother to show us his escape. Rick was counting on using the van to lure away the walkers. His fear, panic and regret were for his community and his family, not for himself.

I'd drop Aron's odds down one notch and Eric's odds down one notch as well. I really would not be shocked for one to die trying to save the other. Or even both to die tragically. I'd like to see them both make it but since they would be in the only ASZhat death scene that could make me cry .... uh, oh. Spencer (unfortunately) should move up a notch and Deanna drop down to the almost dead pile. She's on-board with team Rick but is acting selflessly so there's nowhere else for her character to go so ... uh,oh

I missed most of TD but saw that segment and I loved it and loved that the producer was sitting right next to him smiling painfully at it. I think the Show fucked up and didn't realize that a character that they wanted to be sympathetic is actually derisively stupid to anyone aware of what a psychiatrist is. I hope that means that they will modulate that bullshit going forward because the Show course corrects sometimes and Ken Jeong's reaction was too funny and honest to be ignored.