Deanie87

Does Gretchen have any redeeming qualities? I may have to do a series rewatch because I am hard pressed to recall any.

I didn't take it as them teasing her in a malicious or judgmental way, more like reinforcing just how different their life experiences were to April's. April had the perfect dress, gave her date a corsage (I can't spell the male version of that LOL), and the night ended up completely wholesome, a scenario that is completely foreign to both Alex and Jo for many reasons. I'm sure that they think that they are a lot "cooler" than April, but I didn't think that they were being mean. Alex is always, always going to needle April (and I would love to see her give it back completely), and anything that Jo can say while smiling and doesn't include the words "I lived in my car" is like Shakespeare to me. I also thought that Alex was giving Jo a bit of a dig with his "don't propose to someone unless you know what the answer is gonna be" or whatever he said. It is a cop-out and what bothers me is Amelia isn't the only one to act out of character in the last few seasons. Is Meredith going to get a tumor? Alex, April, Jo, Bailey? Or is it that Amelia continues to be a favorite of the writers and therefore the flaws just aren't acceptable? I never watched PP and have no plans to, so the only Amelia that I know is the obnoxious tween that has been on my screen for the last however many seasons. I just hope that the writers under KV plan to rehabilitate every character that got thrown under the Derek/Sisters/Shiny New Toy bus with the same thought, consideration and screentime that Amelia apparently is going to get. Also, I am really going to miss Ben when he becomes a fireman. Is there any chance that he will do both series?

I just wasn't feeling this episode for some reason. For the life of me, I just don't sympathize with Gretchen, like at all. I did kind of chuckle at her not being able to say the word "guilt," kind of like the Fonz not being able to say "sorry," but the thing is, I am not sure she did feel guilty. It was fun and games sneaking around with what she assumed to be a married man, but then the kid gave her pause. But she seemed more freaked out about the fact of a kid then she did because she was contributing to the "family" dysfunction. And even after that, all it took was a completely messed up pep talk from Lindsay and she was all back in the saddle. And having extremely loud sex with the new guy in Jimmy's room while she knows he is home, just yuck. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to find all the revenge tactics funny, but I don't. What Jimmy did was awful and maybe unforgivable, but if that's the case then I wish she would just completely walk away. I agree that Jimmy has fought for her, but instead of forcing the new guy to "fight" for her, I wish she would maybe ask herself WHY no one ever fights for her, sheesh. She has almost no self-awareness and I just can't warm to her much. Speaking of Lindsay, even the most socially inept person must know that you are often a different person at work than you are with your closest friends and that's a good thing. She and Gretchen should stop exchanging advice and pep-talks since their friendship seems to be more toxic than not. I also thought it was kind of weird that she texted Jimmy to let him know that Gretchen and the guy broke up. If she thinks that Jimmy is good for Gretchen (and for the most part I think he is), then I wish she would mention that instead of giving her the rah-rah speech about banging the married guy. I know that they are the WORST, but they seem to be getting even more so. Who knew that Paul, who I have loathed, would give me the most laughs out of the episode? MRAs are complete creeps, but I have to admit if anyone can send a guy over that edge, it would probably be Lindsay LOL! "And noooo, I"m not gonna rape you!!" I laughed a little more than I should have at that. When Vernon and Jimmy are looking at you like you've gone to far, its bad. And I know that I shouldn't feel this bad for Jimmy, but I do. Maybe its the beard.

I thought they were also sort of like "substitute interns" and that the hospital could save money by not having to give them a full contract/admission. I could have possibly made that up though. As for why Jo slept with him, it wouldn't be Greys without some inappropriate sexing, I guess. It didn't bother me though because her walk of shame and Alex's reaction to it were two of my favorite things in the episode.

Well that was unexpected and pleasantly surprising. I am not yet ready to declare that "Old Grey's is Back!" since we still have 22 episodes to go, but if Krista Vernoff 's influence is felt over the majority of this season, it will definitely be an improvement over the last few. People actually communicated! Jo is funny again AND a competent doctor! Meredith smiled and laughed and was the compassionate person I remember for the most part! There was a balance between characters/storylines and it wasn't just the same old characters only interacting with each other! Yay! It wasn't perfect, and I found some of the developments/retcons a bit jarring (Alex and Jo haven't talked at all in 10 episodes and now they are joking around?) And I find Amelia's tumor to be a pretty big cop-out as far as explaining her behavior (I never watched PP so this is how she has always been for me). I mean if they didn't blatantly use a brain tumor to explain Izzie's bitchiness way back in seasons 4-6, then its hard for me to believe it now. Either that or there are a LOT of brain tumors floating around that hospital. I'm not really looking forward to more Owen/Amelia/Sisters angst, so I hope that Amelia figures out a way to do brain surgery on herself and they wrap it up quick. Either that or she and DeLuca's sister can orgasm the tumor out through her vajayjay. I don't really care as long as it doesn't get completely dragged out. I don't think Kim Raver is staying but I would be all for Owen and the show trading Amelia in for Teddy. I also agree with NUguy514 that the Alex deification is a bit hard to swallow as well, and he is my favorite. He did beat DeLuca to a pulp, he does have violent tendencies and I"m not 100% convinced that he was "rescuing" Jo when he served up the beat down on DeLuca. I am for sure that he isn't a puppy who wouldn't hurt a fly, though I don't think that he would ever hurt Jo. All that said, I am rooting for him and Jo again, though I kind of wish that the reconciliation wasn't quite so slapped together, but hooray that they didn't drag Alex's secret out for another 15 episodes. They still have a lot to work out, but it was nice to see them be honest and have a semi-real conversation for once. I loved Jo's walk of shame and her face when she got a good look at the intern's basement dwelling in the light of day LOL! I also loved that Alex laughed in her face about it and she took it well. And of course I really LOVED all of the callbacks, including the cringey George/Mer sex. Surprisingly, I am interested in Megan's son and I thought that the actress was a good fit. However, seeing her play a sister and interacting with a character named Teddy just made me miss the show Rectify. If you haven't seen it is is incredible! This was a good start, lets hope it continues!

Yeah, I agree. They are both awful in their own ways, and Jimmy is a complete pompous, condescending narcissist, and he can be carelessly cruel sometimes, but I think that he has a glimmer of self-awareness that Gretchen doesn't. Or maybe its just that I find the ways that Jimmy is awful to be more relatable/funny than I do Gretchen. I always remember her and Lindsay going into that yogurt store and eating up the samples and then throwing trash on the floor and leaving a mess, numerous times. Also, I think she was the one stealing wedding gifts in the premiere. And then last night, whether it was deserved or not, breaking a window and throwing Jimmy's bed out of it just isn't funny to me. Jimmy ignoring Edgar and asking for Toast Soldiers or whatever it was, is funny to me. Speaking of Edgar, does anyone think he has been acting really weird this season? Maybe its that he has gotten more confidence or maybe its because he is now working on a comedy show, but he is soooo DudeBro in a way that he never has been before. I can't decide if it makes him more or less Ross Gellar-like. Either way, not sure I like it.

She never told him but somehow Alex apparently found out that her name is Brooke. In keeping with most of her backstory and their relationship, it happened offscreen and we are just supposed to make up the details in our head. I go back and forth on her not telling Alex. I believe that if she couldn't commit all the way then she should have either told the truth (even if she didn't give every detail) as soon as he started talking marriage or broken up with him. On the other hand, he did beat DeLuca up in anger and when she did tell him, he ran straight to Meredith and told her and then tracked down the husband. So her instincts were pretty spot on. But in reality, I can't be TOO mad at her because it is 1000% obvious to me that the writers pulled this "twist" out of their collective asses somewhere in the middle of season 12 and after they wrote episodes which completely contradict the story. So in reality, Jo never mentioned her husband to Alex because she just found out she was married along with the rest of like us, some 3-4 seasons after her arrival.

And can someone explain to me if this is really the lyric that shows up in many rap songs?!? (I'm old so it's mainly old school, I think). Have I been saying "Sho' improve" all these years in error and nobody told me?? When D'Angelo the cop said it, something clicked in my brain and I felt a shame come over me and I knew I needed to ask this in the safe anonymity of the internet! Could it be that I'm not as cool as I think I am? Also, I am really loving this show. It's not as slow to engage as Treme and I'm pretty good at keeping all the characters straight. The only thing that bothers me at this point is all of the smoking. I grew up in the 70s so I know that it's realistic, but ugh!

Ha, it was one of my favorite parts LOL! Nobody wants to hear that their ex's life is 100x better after a breakup, at least this soon, even if they are the responsible party. In general, I think that Jimmy is the more...empathetic/kind/sensitive(?) of the two (giving Arlo the money to fly, his romantic and elaborate murder scheme proposal), but his pomposity and self-righteousness always get him in the end. I thought his apology was very sincere, if woefully adequate given what he did. I also loved Gretchen's "HEY! DOT! DOT! DOT!" and the looks on both her and Jimmy's face during their confrontation. I also loved Edgar's "Ohhhhh shit!" I am looking forward to the antagonism between Jimmy and Gretchen, but I am also rooting for them to eventually get back together, as horrible as they are for one another. Also, I am missing the brother-in-law, whose name I can't remember. I hope we get a glimpse into that gang soon. Though, if I never see Paul again, I'm good.

I totally agree! That's also why I want Cersei to last as long as possible. I don't root for her exactly, but she brings something to the show that most of the other characters don't. I have no interest in watching all of the "good guys" wandering around trying to out-noble each other. I would die of boredom. Cersei is a short-sighted, selfish, cruel narcissist, but my god is she entertaining. I think that LH is by far the best actor on the entire show and she brings out the best of everyone who acts opposite her. So while I get that she needs to get her comeuppance, I think that the show will be sorely lacking without her. Littlefinger was a manipulative shit as well, but again, simply watching Arya, Sansa and, god forbid Bran, going on and on about The North may not make for the most compelling television. Next season is going to be action/CGI heavy enough, simply because of the plot and all of the dragons, Night Kings and zombies involved. And I have no problem with a bit of shock and awe spectacle every once and awhile. But I have always found the more intimate character driven scenes to be what makes GoT so great. And, for me, the Night King is just a cypher or plot device, to drive other character interactions. So while I expect next season to be a lot of fight sequences and zombie dragon action, it won't be the same without all of the double dealing and behind the scenes manipulations. I would love to watch Dany, Jon, Cersei, Yara/Theon and Sansa and all of their entourages try to manage and jostle each other trying to reach the bigger goal of wiping out the Night King and his army.

I'm sure it has something to do with Megan, like she wasn't kidnapped/missing she was either helping the enemy or just didn't get in contact with anyone or, even better and most likely, has amnesia. The thing is, though, who cares because we don't even know Megan and just learned about her last season.

I agree with this. I don't find Cersei to be a one note sadist like Ramsay, for example. She's not a good politician, a particularly savvy tactician or an inspiring leader. But she can still wring some sympathy from me every once and awhile and I find her endlessly fascinating and watchable, and most of the credit for that goes to Lena Heady. She brings something to every scene she is in and, IMO, makes every scene partner more interesting. It wasn't until last season that I finally cared about Jon Snow, and Dany still bores me more often than not, but Cersei has never been anything less than completely entertaining. Part of my problem with the latter seasons of GoT, is that so many of the good villains/morally gray characters got killed off and we were left with so many boring do-gooders. So I"m glad that Cersei has stuck around this long because she is something other than the good but bland characters (Dany, Jorah), the lovable killers with the great dialogue (the Hound, Bronn) and the various Stark offspring, who try my patience greatly. Give me Cersei narrowing her eyes and sipping wine slowly over Dany's long titled/long winded repetitive speeches any day. Dany is the better ruler (and person), no doubt, I just hope that she and Jon Snow will be worthy adversaries. Even with dragons and the apparently blessing of immortality laid upon Jon by the Lord of Light, I'm not going to count Cersei out completely.

No, don't get excited it's a trap LOL! Lower those expectations and stay strong, my friend!

I hope it's a flashback. They haven't had a conversation for half a season so them getting slapped back together as though nothing happened isn't gonna work for me. But most of their relationship happens off screen anyway so it's what I'm expecting. I am intrigued by whatever guys trip looks to be happening. If nothing else, getting Alex out of the sisters' orbit will make this season better than the last for me.

I think that I realized what soured me a bit on this season, and that is there was waaayyy too much Selina. I know that sounds dumb since she is the title character and JLD does a masterful job, but I got tired of her real quick and as much as I love Gary, Catherine and Marjorie and Richard Splett, I wanted to see more of some of the other characters who existed outside of her immediate orbit. And an over abundance of downright cruel Selina on top of too much Selina just didn't work for me. Most of the characters got their own little side stories (Jonah in Congress, Dan on TV) but they were tiny glimpses and then it was back to the Selina show. I appreciated the glimpse into Gary, but that episode was tarnished due to how beyond selfish Selina was. Her personality has gone from funny and biting to downright monstrous with ever diminishing returns for me. I hope that with the band back together next season, we either get a more balanced show or that Selina gets toned down some. There were times when I should have sympathized with her, such as finding out about her father, everything to do with awful Andrew and her sadness about Jaffar, but her treatment of Mike, Amy, Gary and Catherine (all characters on the somewhat "nicer" end of the spectrum) prevented me from really feeling much toward her at all, again even as JLD completely sold every scene and every emotion. She's just awful now. Maybe she just needs an adversary as truly awful as she is and Jonah (but mostly his campaign team) are more than up for the task. Am I making too much of this, or was she really as bad as I am remembering all season? Against my better judgement, I am embarrassingly excited about the Dan and Amy twist (though I am pissed that it happened offscreen), but whatever happens, I hope that Amy can get her groove back. Between her long sleeve prarie dresses and everyone constantly belittling her looks, etc., I am ready for the Amy of the fist couple of seasons to rear her magnificent blonde head again. I hope that the writers don't cop out with a miscarriage or an abortion (though that is really the most realistic thing that would happen), because I want to see if these two really do have any feelings for each other because its always been so vague. Having said that, I am a little disappointed in her for sleeping with him after everything with her sister and I really would love some kind of flashback next season to see how it all went down, even if it was just a drunken hookup. If nothing else, the reactions of everyone else will be hilarious (can't wait to see Sophie lord this over both of their heads). Maybe Dan and Amy are made for each other and the universe has proven it by allowing Amy, who forgets that she has a vagina, to get pregnant by Dan, who has such slow sperm he can't impregnate a 24 year old even with the help of science and doctors! How romantic! I'm sure that there are going to be comparisons/parallels to the 2016 election, just because everything is politicized these days and this is a political show after all. But I really hope that the writers go out of their way to avoid any of the obvious storyline beats, because I can't imagine that I am the only one who has no interest in even remotely reliving that.

My two quibbles with the show involve the bolded. Hank from Breaking Bad AKA Uncle Daddy (ugh, and also ew), was way too over the top for me. Dean Norris (?) is a good actor but he was hamming it up way too much for me here. It may be that TNT is going over the top with the drugs and the violence simply to show how "edgy" they can be, but so far Hank/UD seems way too cartoonish for me and I hope that changes. Secondly, I don't care how many sensible flats and pearl necklaces Polly shows up in, I feel absolutely no sympathy for someone who scams money from old people. None. My 87 year old dad was a victim of identity theft and it was so, so stressful and bewildering for him. All of the online stuff confused him and he had a hard time clearing everything up because the bank people were using terms he didn't understand and it just didn't make sense to him how he could have the credit card ON HIS PERSON and yet he was being stolen from. He still gets hassled about his credit because of it and that is a point of pride for many people of that generation. My dad worked for NASA, he isn't dumb, but it is just wasn't in his realm of knowledge, which just makes it more victimizing. Identity fraud is awful for anyone, bu the extra level of cruelty to do this kind of thing to a senior citizen is just too much. So Polly can miss me with her tears, her Carrie prom dress and her purple dildo. The fact that she was getting sympathy because she actually had to pay the money back - NOPE!

Niecy Nash is a national treasure! As good as everyone in Reno 911 was, she still stood out, and she was the best thing in Scream Queens, not to mention how good she was in Getting On and in the last season of Masters of Sex. She is so versatile and talented, so I was going to give this a shot no matter, what. Very glad that I enjoyed it. I will say this, though. Between The Americans, Fargo, this show and...real life, I have had my fill of Russians. No offense to any Russians out there, but #Lordy.

I plan to. I tried to catch up before the finale and didn't have the time to get in more than the first episode from season 2, but I will definitely go back to watch.

Yes, it was like the nun said, "It's a nicer story." I can't decide if I really believe it or not, but I still really enjoyed the finale. I expected that when she said she came out in the parking lot naked that it would end up being a scam. The Matt/Nora scene started the water works that continued til the end. Also, have I mentioned that I've only really watched season 3? I probably would have needed to be sedated if I actually knew what the hell was going on from one moment to the next.

Just as a different (or maybe similar) perspective, I watched probably 3/4 of season 1 and it just didn't do it for me and I never finished it and skipped season 2 as well. But I happened to catch the premiere of season 3 and I have been hooked ever since. I don't really know what is going on or the backstory of each character, other than what I vaguely remember from season 1, but I have been consistently moved (often to tears though I have no idea what is going on) by every single episode. I hope to go back and catch up on season 2 before the finale, but I doubt I'll be able swing it. So I'm not even looking for answers, since I barely know the questions, but that hasn't prevented me from really loving every episode so far, and that is a sign of pretty good storytelling to me, not to mention the incredible acting and musical score. If nothing else, I hope to go back and watch everything once it is all over and I'm sure that it will only enhance my enjoyment of it.

I don't have a lot of affection for "the Sisters" and I think that many of their interactions seemed completely forced, so I would not love for them to become the center of the show more than they already are. But if putting April with them (which I did enjoy) gets Alex out of sitting there mutely (or lets not forget the electrifying scene of him stapling papers), while listening to them chatter about their sex lives, then I am all for it.

I mainly tune in for Alex and Alex and Jo. So, yeah, I feel you. I guess this is their way of telling me to stop wasting my time and find something else to do at Thursdays at 8:00pm. If only it were that easy.

I was under the impression that the fire fighter character was going to be introduced in tonight's episode? Either way, this is the 3rd season in a row where backstage stuff has negatively altered storylines, except for a small handful of characters. I'm not blaming Shonda here, maybe the common factor is McKee and her new method of storytelling. There were as many or more characters back in seasons 9-10, but I think the seasons were more consistent. In which case, I hope she leaves Greys entirely instead of trying to do both. She used to be one of my favorites, but her recent episodes and the show over all all since she has been one of the head writers has gotten progressively worse, IMO. As far as the pregnancies/maternity leaves I would argue that they were spaced months apart, and those actresses affected, with the exception of one, still got plenty to do over the entire arc of the season, some even more than those who weren't pregnant. At the end of the day, it is always something and I am not optimistic for next season either. YMMV.

This explains a lot about season 13, including why the first part of the season was a lot more consistent. Sometime during the season, the head writer gets a deal for a spinoff and everything Grey's falls to the back burner. We've been there before, see PP and Scandal, the new and shiny always takes precedence over the sure thing workhorse. Always. Grey's is not the first show to have a spinoff, have a cast member leave under a cloud, or even on good terms, or have an actress get pregnant. But for some reason, even after all these years, Grey's simply can't seem to roll with these issues the way other shows can and do. Whatever backstage issue is happening, whether good or bad, it always, always affects the storytelling negatively. Always. You would think that this would be one of the times that having a large cast would benefit the show and the pacing and the storytelling. But nope.

The lack of promotion for this finale is interesting. I haven't seen any interviews about it or much promotion from ABC. Its possible that its there and I have missed it, but I remember there being a lot more write ups and promotions last year. Maybe like many of us, they are just ready to put this season in their rear view mirror and look forward to the next one.