Deanie87

I liked this episode, but I am finding that sometimes I need to take a broad approach to the show, and right now, I'm okay with that. I do the same thing with some other shows I watch and it works for me. As an example, on a recent It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the guys were picking on Dee who is the only woman in the gang, per usual, and I always find it hilarious. They were using horrible words and somehow the C-word came up, and all the guys giggled wildly at how mad women get when you call them that and then they went on about how they like to use it because it makes them feel better about themselves and makes the woman feel bad about themselves, etc.. Now, if you don't watch the show, this probably sounds completely offensive and not funny at all, but believe me, I roared with laughter, and then felt bad, and then laughed again. It's just that kind of show. They are horrible people, way over the top, not in on the joke and it is nearly always funny. But its different with this show, because it isn't always this broad. It actually tackles some very serious subjects and it does it in a relatively serious way. So I think that they walk a bit of a fine line sometimes. Objectively, Ruby and Diane are simply awful, as are Charlie and Dre's boss. But they are hilarious too (well, I still don't love Diane, but that's my bias against precocious sitcom kids), and they always make me laugh. In this episode, both Dre and Bow acted kind of crappy, and normally it might be something that I found fault with, but I was okay with it in this episode. When Dre and all of his co-workers were sitting around making fun of dads staying at home with the kids and then calling it the Bitch Plan or whatever it was, I laughed but then got kind of annoyed and then laughed again. The same thing happened when Bow got hypocritically mad about the Nanny, although to a much lesser extent. That hasn't happened for me on this show before, I usually take them as "real people" more or less, generally good people, but with flaws. But for some reason, some of the over the top behavior stood out to me in a way that usually doesn't in the episodes, even though it really isn't nearly the worst thing that they have done. So I guess that this is a long winded way of saying that I think the writers and actors are walking a bit of a tightrope at times and so far they are doing it very well. I don't mind if the show goes really broad sometimes, but it can be a bit of whiplash because the majority of characters are generally good and mean well, and there are times when it veers a tiny bit into "After School Special" territory, and then they can turn around and be so over the top in terms of character behavior. So as long as they stay away from the sitcom curse of making the characters dial their most marked characteristic up to 11, then they can show some of the worst aspects of the "nicer" characters and I don't have a problem with it. Does any of this make sense? LOL.

I really hope that this episode is more about Jackson and less about Jackson and April.

Neither Riggs nor Alex came off very well in this episode, but I put a bit more blame on Riggs for putting DeLuca in the position of having to lie/withhold information from Alex, especially given the history. So out of all the crappy things that were done this episode, I think that was the worst. For whatever reason, Alex seems to be the go to guy when the show needs one doctor to get completely shown up by another. He has somehow evolved from an innovator risk taker (ping pong ball maneuver) to the plodding, conservative "better to be safe than sorry" doctor. Then again, I would probably prefer that to the risk if it were my kid. And while I agree that the whole beating storyline was completely anti-climactic and poorly done, Alex did plan to take the plea, partly to help Jo and partly because he knew he did it. I don't blame him for not insisting on going to jail when DeLuca dropped the charges. But yes, I wish that there had been some kind offer to pay the bills or something more on his behalf. Either punishment or retribution of some kind.

I finished it last week, and I really liked it as well. All of the characters were so well written! A couple of twists, but not in the "gotcha" sense, but enough that I was surprised. It was both very timely, but the themes were pretty timeless, too, if that makes sense. I highly recommend it!

Probably not exactly comfort food, but I have read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn quite a few times. It is my all time favorite book, and Huck is my all time favorite character, and I find that I read it nearly once a decade, starting with my first time in high school. I am not nearly as ambitious of a reader as I used to be (I try, I check the books out, don't read them and then I go back to my mysteries!) But I find that I get different things out of the book as I age. The last time I read it I had just had my son, and wow, what a horrific book it is in all reality. Huck is such a sweet soul and real parental love eludes him his whole childhood, except for Jim. Twain uses a lot of "characters", dialect and humor, but at heart it is just kind of a tragedy all around. The older I get, the less I laugh and the more I cry. I have always wanted a Twain sequel to see how Huck ends up, but alas. I was so excited when Jon Clinch's Finn came out, which told the story of Huck's father, but it just didn't do it for me. One thing never changes though - how much I end up loathing that spoiled little shit Tom Sawyer!

That's kind of where I am too. The few storylines I care about have been dragged out since last freakin' season and then stalled or completely dropped. I don't understand the motivations of most of the characters anymore, and the writing for so many of them has been so uneven that they barely exist as real characters anymore. I am vaguely interested in the Catherine/Jackson dynamic (and how it involves Richard), but not enough to watch an entire episode devoted to him and April bickering. The storylines (or lack thereof) for the majority of the romantic couples only reinforce the fact that not only should most of them not be together, they shouldn't even be allowed in the same hospital. And if they are going to try to push Mer/Riggs, Jo/DeLuca or god forbid, Mer/Alex, then they are going to have show me (not tell me) that more than one of those involved in the potential pairings actually gives a shit about the other romantically. So far, I just ain't seeing it. Me too. Or maybe not "like" exactly, but I definitely find her interesting and appreciate what she brings to the show. I usually don't care for the Shondaland version of "strong yet vulnerable woman trying to have it all" as they either come off as a total bitch or kick-ass surgeon who acts like a tween on their first date in their dating life. But Catherine is unapologetic and can be vulnerable without laying out some past tragedy or breaking down prettily in a closet. She isn't like every other Grey's character, and I guess I do like that about her.

Yes, that is why he left her, and I"m not really accusing Susan of getting pregnant on purpose, but he was finally happy with someone else and it certainly was convenient for Susan that she got pregnant just when her neck was in the noose. It always bothered me, even though I had always rooted for Susan and Jackson together.

Yes, I agree, her voice and impressions can be grating. I haven't listened to all of the seasons, but that's a shame that you found mistakes. I have mostly listened to the stories that I wasn't as familiar with. I appreciated the Crawford one, even though I knew a lot of about her story, mainly because of how sympathetic Longworth was to her subject. So many stories from that era seem to be long on legend, and short on the truth, so I will take what I can get! Especially now without Robert Osbourne :(

I just finished it and I loved it. It reminded me also of Tom Wolfe, in the way he can completely capture a certain time, and how he can so successfully get into the minds of so many disparate characters and it never feels artificial. Not to mention how scathing he can be. Some of the minor characters could be complete stereotypes, and yet he is a good enough writer that they never feel that way. Each had their own point of view and I found all of them interesting.

I just posted this in the episode thread, but anyone who is interested in Old Hollywood should check out the You Must Remember This podcast by Karina Longworth. She does a different topic every season and she has one whole season devoted to Joan Crawford, and one episode devoted to Baby Jane and Joan's later years. She covers familiar topics and ones that I was unaware of, and I'm a pretty big fan of Hollywood history. http://www.youmustrememberthispodcast.com/

I just finished this and even though I see Lange/Sarandon as much as I see Crawford/Davis, I don't care. This is so my jam! I read the book that this is based on years ago and I have always been fascinated by old Hollywood and, while neither Crawford nor Davis are my favorites, both of their lives are so interesting and so...modern (for lack of a better word), that knowing more about them enhances my enjoyment of their performances. Having said that, I HATED the movie BabyJane. I can't get into the camp of it, I just found it so demeaning to both of them, and I turn the channel anytime I see it playing. Joan's story is both tragic and uplifting, in a way. Even though the effects of poverty and most likely sexual abuse, were apparent throughout her life (note the plastic on the furniture and the absolute tyranny against dirt), she was strong as hell. The fact that so many people only know her through Mommy Dearest just breaks my heart. I"m sure that she was a very flawed woman, but she was also fiercely loyal to her few true friends, a consummate professional and probably one of the most hard working women to ever come out of Hollywood. I find her endlessly fascinating. And she was gorgeous when she was younger, before the eyebrows and the lipstick, just gorgeous. I think that's true too, and the thing is that apart from their childhood's, they had a lot in common. Neither was really very happy in their homelife, both went through multiple marriages, dealt with the difficulties not only of being women during the Hollywood contract system, but of also always being the more famous and successful ones in their marriages, and both had children who wrote tell-all books about them, that painted them as near monsters. I loved that the pilot opened on the two of them sitting in their chairs, smoking and laughing, and it is based on a photo of them that I have always adored. So while the whole show is obviously based on their famously not getting along, I like to imagine them enjoying each other's company, however reluctantly and however briefly. Also, anyone interested in Old Hollywood stories, should definitely check out the "You Must Remember This" podcast. It is really good and she does a multi-episode season just on Joan Crawford which is great. Its honest, but its sympathetic to her as well.

I have no problem if people don't like the character, I dislike most of the characters on the show at this point. And in fact, its not like Jo is my favorite either, there are definitely things that bug me about her. I think most of it is the fault of the writers but I agree that Camilla sometimes makes choices that may go over better if they were done a different way. I guess my biggest gripe is that she gets the wrath of hell brought down on her for things that every single other character does all the time and with such vitriol (not necessarily here) that just doesn't match the amount of storyline or screentime that she gets. But, then again, I hated Derek partially because of the way he leaned and twinkled his eyes, so I get irrational hate as well. This is actually where I disagree the most strongly. She can be a pitiful whiny moper, her backstory is bordering on ridiculous overkill and she can be a crappy friend more often than not, but she has treated Alex better than any other character on the show, IMO, and there were times when I probably would have shoved his ass to the curb and she didn't. Alex is my favorite, but he treated her pretty shabbily for a couple of seasons. She stood by him when his father appeared (and he just blew her off with no explanation), and when his father died she was the one picking up the pieces not his friends, she supported him for the board seat (when his besties couldn't bother to vote for him), with the private practice, with the Face of the Hospital, etc. She has been his sole support many, many times when his friends couldn't be bothered. And he repaid her by allowing his best friend to call her ugly names, disrespect her and their relationship, barge into their bed constantly, invite people to live with them without checking with her first, ignoring her first solo surgery to drink with the friends that were rude to her, and told her that she was basically slutty garbage who is incapable of love, to name just the things that pop into my head. And I could go on but I won't, because now I want her to dump Alex again and hook up with DeLuca LOL! In all serious though, no one has had Alex's back on this show more than Jo has. Not even Meredith. I know that people are much more attached to Alex and again, despite all of those awful things that I just listed he is still my favorite, but I don't think its true or fair to say that Jo isn't good enough for him. I think that they are similar and part of the reason that I like them together is that neither has to prove that they are worthy to each other, unlike nearly every other relationship on this show. And I know that she LIED!!!!! But I look at this two ways, the first being that her feelings weren't a lie and she didn't do it maliciously or to cause him pain, even though that's how it turned out. I have thankfully never been in her shoes, so I'm not here to judge her for doing what she felt she had to do to stay safe. But mostly I can't get too worked up about it because it was so blatant of a retcon, so carelessly planned and so last minute, that if the writers can't be bothered to care about it, I can't either. Edited just now by Deanie87.

I'm quite sure that many are tired of my epic poem "You Guys, Jo Really Isn't That Bad" told in 50 parts and counting, so I moved it to the Jo thread.

Jo didn't mention her car, her past, or even reference herself one time this episode. Alex was the only one who did and Jo shut him down. That's the whole reason I liked this episode for her. What is it that we aren't hearing about her story, other than her real name? She ran away from an abusive husband and started a new life after having a difficult childhood. We likely won't know the actual details unless or until the husband shows up. Again, they do this crap with characters all the time. They hinted ominous shit about Alex for nearly 5 seasons until we heard about his mother's mental illness.

I thought so too. He and Nurse Tyler both, and what I wouldn't give for Sydney Heron to show up and knock some cheery sense into these assholes! I will admit, however, that the gray in the Psych guy's beard was an unwelcome reminder of exactly how long I have been watching this show. Yikes.

I feel you, at least in some ways! I quasi-hate this show, but got drawn back into the madness because I just happened to watch the episode with that damn Bonnie/Frank dysfunctional sex scene, which went exactly nowhere. Bonnie makes cow eyes at Frank as he frets about Laurel, ugh. This show doesn't ever give me what I want. Speaking of which, when Annalise was confessing everything at AA, I totally expected (read: wanted) for someone to ask what her "son's" name was and for her to say Frank. Of course, that is completely impossible for many reasons, but I kept waiting for it*. Just like I keep waiting for Michaela and Conner to hook up, even though I realize that is just another of my pipe dreams. I did love the Oliver/Connor reunion scene, but for the life of me, I just can't understand what any grown woman could possibly see in Asher, much less Michaela and Bonnie, who have LIVED a life, for god sake. Also, hello hot sex scene between Conner and Rando Oliver hookup. That's something to turn back in for, I guess. I have never been a big Laurel fan, so I am not looking forward for her coming into focus as the new Wes in Annalise's life, and I have no interest in her baby drama. Can't we just get back to the dysfunctional Flowers in the Attic dynamic of Annalise, Bonnie and Frank? With a little hot Conner sex on the side? I'm not that picky as far as his partners go: Oliver, Michaela, maybe the new hot hitman who works for Laurel's dad? Is a threesome with Annalise and Nate out of the question? I know, I know, I'm bound to be disappointed. *Keep in mind, I never gave one shit about Frank until he shaved, cut off his hair and started walking around shirtless and forlorn.

MMV, but any episode where Jo doesn't utter the phrase "I lived in my car," is a subtle one to me LOL! The case clearly mirrored what she has gone through (and it isn't the first one either), but I thought that it was subtle in that she saw the case from an angle that wasn't completely obvious to everyone else (the fact that it was power and control that motivating the father), and she did it without having to give an Oliver Twist monologue detailing every bad thing that ever happened to her. In fact, she didn't refer to her own experience even once. After the way that these writers have dealt with Jo, I find that to be subtle. Which ain't saying much, but here we are. And I'm not even Jo's #1 fan by any means, but I do think that she gets held to a different standard and gets called out every single time for stuff that every single character does. And not just called out, but called a bitch, a liar, a psycho, a whiner, a drama queen, a thing....and on and on. Which isn't to say that she isn't some of those things sometimes because she is, but it gets annoying after a while.

I agree with this, but at that point, it wasn't 100% certain that there wasn't another option. Its not like Jo said, "I WOULD RATHER THE KID DIE ON THE TABLE THAN TAKE A KIDNEY FROM THAT MONSTER!!!" She wanted to consult with the mother at the very least or exhaust other options. When she wasn't able to do that, she took the kidney. And, as a survivor of domestic violence, she realized that as much as the father most likely wanted to save his son, he also was looking for any means to exert power and control over his family. And while obviously saving both patients' lives was the primary goal, doing that in a way that wasn't going to make the rest of their lives a living hell was important to her as well. Boy, what a bitch! Also, have I been watching a completely different show all of these years? Is this the first time that a doctor has made a patient storyline all about them (and I don't even think that Jo did that)? Isn't that what literally every single doctor does on nearly every single case in nearly every single episode? Are these NOT the most self-centered people on the face of the earth? Just Jo? Okay.

I thought that in this instance she wasn't making it about herself at all, she was making it about the mother, who was also her patient. She understood exactly what would go through the mother's mind and how that kidney may end up tainted somehow, regardless of how much it saved her son's life. And how much power it would give that father over her and her son. I thought that the way that they framed all of that was subtle (for Grey's) and that it was clear that unless you had been through what she and the mother had been through, you wouldn't get it. She also was more against them doing it without the mother's permission and because she thought that there were other options that, in the end, would be the best outcome for both of her patients. When she realized that the father was the only hope, that was that, and then her solution was that the kidney was to be given anonymously so that it would save the kid's life AND not be something that wouldn't be traumatizing for the mother going forward. I know that Jo can absolutely do nothing right for a lot of people and just can't win no matter what she does, but honestly I really think that she did the right thing here for BOTH of her patients.

I really liked the way they did this storyline. I mean, clearly, it was going to be obvious that Jo was going to have issues with this guy due to...dun dun dun...HER PAST11!! But, they didn't completely go the obvious route, IMO. I expected her to call him a scumbag or mention living in her car, etc. but the line that really got me was when she said something about the dad doing it because he wanted that kind of control and peer over them, and I thought that was pretty chilling and something that only someone who had been through that would say. So they can write Jo as someone who can get the point across without going into a monologue about how difficult her life has been and I wish that they would do it more often. Along those lines, I find it very odd that in all of the tweeting that Shonda and other members of the cast do about the various social issues that the show addresses, I have yet to see them even mention domestic abuse. Its so weird to me. Maybe they are just waiting for the husband to show up to actually focus on it. Also, Jackson has gone from bland to dickish pretty quickly. Would that we could all have trust funds to fall back on, hey Jackson?

Also, didn't April say more than once that she was the interim Chief, while Meredith was "unavailable?" I didn't watch the whole episode, but I know she said it at least once. So unless I missed something, its not like she was wearing a tiara with LIFELONG CHIEF on it or talking shit or shoving it anyone's face. She was doing the job Bailey asked her to do and she seemed to understand that it was completely temporary. I also can't stand the way that the writers are now telling us that Meredith is beloved and respected by all when that clearly hasn't been shown on screen. If it were season 5 or 6 and Cristina, Mark, Derek, George, etc., were still around, okay sure. But she has barely interacted with half of the characters that have been on the show for years now, and when she has, many of those interactions have been tense, at best. Especially her interactions with her workplace "inferiors" who depend on her to teach them, such as Jo and DeLuca. So while April has never been one of my favorites, the more they push the "Meredith is the Best" scenario, the more I root for April. She has her flaws, but she also earn her position without the money, connections or nepotism that many of her colleagues were blessed with. That alone makes her just as qualified, at least for me. And I'm not saying this to be anti-Meredith or even pro-April. For me, its just another example of the laziness of the writers who are trying to shortcut something that hasn't been earned. For years, the writers only seemingly cared about Mer/Cristina and Mer/Derek and did nothing to cultivate her relationships with anyone else. But then once there is no more Cristina and Derek, they shove Alex in (who is now apparently worthy of being the Person or even worse, taking Derek's place...ugh), and bring in Maggie to be her cheering section. But barely any attention was given to any kind of friendship between Meredith and Arizona, Owen, Jackson, April, or any kind of mentorship with the newer crop of characters. So I find it insulting now that we are supposed to magically think that everyone rallies around Meredith like it was season 7 when no effort has been put forth by the writers to get to that place. Per usual.

Not to mention the Amelia/Owen crap. Good god. I have to admit that I am slightly intrigued by the Richard/Catherine and April/Jackson foursome, talk about conflicts of interests and the personal is political!

Oh my god, I couldn't even get through this whole episode of "High School With Scalpels." Not only is it basically a rehash of storylines that have been done before, nearly every single doctor was flat out embarrassing for me to watch. Like 12 year olds, even more than usual. I don't understand the show's timeline at all. I could swear that Jo did her first solo surgery (and it was an appendectomy) in season 11. She did it from start to finish with Bailey watching but not assisting. So what is the big deal now? Is it new surgeries or do the writers just not bother to remember things that they get paid to remember, although people who watch the show for "pleasure" do remember. Why are all of the attendings now like "Whaaaaa??? A Resident do surgery....*EYES BUG*? Bailey was a resident way back in season 2 and 3 when she was throwing back surgeries on her own all the time. This show is so dumb.

I kind of have no idea what I just watched, or if I even really enjoyed it all that much. But I'm sad that its over somehow.

I keep forgetting to post this, but I haven't seen anyone else mention it. I found it interesting that Jo was the one to do the voiceover this week, especially because she really wasn't in the episode all that much or integral to the main plot. I guess it was the significance of the hug that did it and the fact that the voiceover (and main patient) was all about walls and keeping your guard up. Oh, Grey's how you keep us on our toes (and into our booze) with your confusing decisions!