ILoveReading

I feel like they're will be repercussions because now if anything gets through the rift it will Dean fault because he was the one who opened it in the first place. Billie said a big dumb Winchester was going to bring down the house of cards. I guess we know what she was talking about now . Wayward sisters is said to be

I don't mind controversial stuff. That's what makes the Dean character interesting. Another example is when Dean hit Meg, and we saw that it wasn't' just a demon but a person. That ep did a good job of building Dean's desperation. Another good example if taking on the Mark. It was a dumb move but I could care less because i was interested where it would take Dean. It was also believable set up that Dean would take it on with no thought to consequences. The writing failed miserably here. It seemed a ploy to gain more sympathy for Kaia. Beren's comments that Dean was just bluffing didn't help either because it killed any hope that it might mean more. If they had kept up Dean's depression these last 3 episodes, and continued to show an escalation of his drinking or nightmares or not sleeping, and that with hell flashback last week, I could buy what happened, but that's not want they showed, or even told.

From the 13.09 episode thread. Truer words were never spoken. The writers have Jack and Sam on some kind of pedestal and even if they do make a mistake, the show goes to great length to make sure its correct. When Jack killed the guard we got long uninterrupted scenes of Jack showing remorse and more cute kicked "I just want to help you" puppy jack. When it was revealed that Sam was using Jack, the problem wasn't Sam's actions it was that Dean told on him. Then we get another long uninterrupted scene where Sam gets to show remorse and tell Jack he really does care about him. We don't get that with Dean. Even with his grief. We got a blink and you miss it shot of Dean drinking and and unending Sam bonding with Jack scene. So I don't expect the show to allow Dean to talk about having hell flashbacks or unbareable guilt at writing Mary off. I think they're either going to ignore it or just have Jody and/or Donna rake him over the coals and Dean apologize for being a dick for the umpteenth time. At least this time the apology is warranted.

Responding in Bitch/Jerk just to be sure.

Dean can and has dome some try scary and over the line things in the past. I dont' deny that. The thing that makes this different for me is what immediately preceded Dean pulling the gun. Some spoilers her for Kaia's background since you haven't seen the episode. Kaia takes drugs to stay awake because she doesn't want to dreamwalk and almost OD'd. She doesn't see her powers as a gift she sees them as a curse. When Kaia didn't want to help she wasn't refusing due to principal, or because she was some snot nosed teenager with an attitude. She was down right terrified because dream walking physically harms her. She showed Sam and Dean the scars. So no, I don't see Dean pulling a gun on teenager in that situation regardless of Mary. Berens talked about how the episode came up short so they extended the Sam, Dean, Cas driving scene and how it become the emotional center of the ep. TBH, I have no idea with scene he was talking about since there was two. One where they tell Jack he's family and one where Jack talks about how powers can be used for good. Maybe instead of giving more lines to Jack (which I admit I tuned out). why not take advantage and give us a quick flashback to Dean in hell. They have the set with the cage, film Jensen in it. Show a new flashback that comes up just after Dean sees Mary in the cage. Show the audience that Dean is mentally trapped back in hell. If it wasn't possible to film Jensen in that cage, there are other ways to do it. When Dean pulls the gun have him say, "you're going to help us. You're going to get me out of there." (instead of mom) That shows that Dean's PTSD is fully triggered rather than just the weird character beat Berens made it sound like. This wouldn't work either since it was Dean who called her for help. We're supposed to believe that a hunter of Dean's experience wouldn't know how to track down a physic instead of calling a high school girl who can barely control her powers that Dean also warned away from the life.

I really don't like sounding like a bro-only because I'm really as far from that as you can get, but I want to know what's coming up on the 2nd half for the brothers. (Dean in particular). When was the last time we had a Winchester spoiler that didn't revolve around Jack or Wayward. I also want to know about Cas. I miss him when he's gone several eps in a row,

I disagree Sam has been completely sidelined. It was him that had the majority of jack scenes and was responsible for getting Jack off to the right start. Dean wasn't a part of that. You can't remove Sam from the Jack plot without rewriting the majority of it, where as you can easily remove Dean. We are 9 for 9 with Dean needing saving this season, and he needed to be saved a lot in 12B. He's not doing much saving these days.

I wish I could disagree with you but sadly I can't. The current writing staff (Yockey being the exception) see Dean as the one note comic side kick to super smart, super empathetic, Sam. That's how they're writing him. Jensen's trying to fight it but there is only so much he can do with what isn't there. My prediction for the first scene of the next ep, since Sam has to one up everything Dean does, I'm guessing Dean will trip over his shoe lace, drop his weapon and Sam will kill a dinosaur and then brag about it for the 4 episodes. I wish I could believe it was leading somewhere, but Dean's grief arc was was poorly handled and then fizzled out when Cas showed up, like I figured it would. These last few eps we didn't really see signs of it so its another reason why Dean's actions were so shocking. (and not in a good way.) I think the only thing they are doing here is setting the stage, to hand Michael to Sam.

The fate of the entire earth was at stake when Dean was attempting to talk Amara off the ledge. He was very much under a time crunch as God was dying and if he died before Dean set off the bomb or talked Amara down the sun would have impolded. The stakes were much higher then Dean's family or Dean's life. He literally had everyone's life in his hands. He still took the time to try and empathize with her. As we saw Kaia was willing to cooperate when Jack did the mind meld thing, why not have Jack suggest that, before Dean pulled the gun. Maybe I'd feel differently if I felt it was part of a larger arc but I doubt it will be revisted which is why IMO, it was lazy and done for shock value and it didn't work because I don't see that as something Dean would do.

No, I don't have you on mute, and I did read your post. But I don't agree with it. Yes, Dean will do some scary things for family, but he's also not heartless. He does have a line, especially is there is a person right in front of him. Kaia just showed him why she was scared to dreamwalk. It physically harms her. Just last episode Dean gave up the great good (finding Jack) to save Smash. I just don't see him pulling a gun on Kaia after what she admitted. I read this post on Tumblr that explains the situation and why I thought it was BS and OOC much better than I could. http://deanirae.tumblr.com/post/168321932233/ok-but-heres-my-problem-i-can-connect-the

Exactly. Now if the house of cards falls down it will be all Dean's fault since he was the one that insisted on opening the rift.

Honestly, it feels like there is no room for Dean on this show anymore. Hunting isn't this cold hard lonely life anymore. It's a magical fantasy quest that anyone with an app and an attitude can be good at. Since 12B Dean's character just feels like he's adrift. Sam was enamored with the fancy toy of the brits and could have cared less (and still doesn't) about how Dean feels and when that didn't work out he appointed himself a leader. He now comes up with most of the plans, bonds with most of the guest stars and takes the lead most times. He really doesn't need Dean anymore. If I didn't know better I would almost think they were grooming Jack to be Dean's replacement. Cas doesn't stick around long enough to give Dean the time of day anymore, despite Dean doing not much more than worrying or fussing over Cas. If Dean packed it it in at the start of this season and drove off on a motorcycle not a single major plot point changes this season. So my (rhetorical) question is What is Dean's purpose these days?

It’s why I’m torn. It’s the only way this storyline can have any satisfactory resolution. But at he same time I’m worried the writers will use it as an excuse to hand the Michael storyline to Sam so the other part of me just wants it to go away.

I’m not really sure of the best place to voice this thought in so I’ll do it here to be on the safe side. I’m very torn at the momemt With everything they are putting Dean through and Dean clearly at the end of his rope the only satisfactory resolution is some kind of breakdown. There needs to be something big. Along the lines of Sam at he end of sacrifice where Dean just get to unload 35 years of surpressed emotion. But at the same time I’m just so over mopey depressed Dean.

IIRC, the part of Madison in Heart was specifically written for the actress who played her. (I'm blanking on her name.) The part of Molly in Road Kill was stunt casting and specifically written for Tricia Helfer. Robbie Thompson admitted he was basically writing himself with the creation of Charlie and that was also stunt casting. I highly doubt Felicia Day auditioned. I had never heard of her before that ep. So she wasn't a big name. Plus, (IMO) she's not a great actress. But they kept bring her back. Robert Englund as Dr. Robert was another example. Despite that fact that there really is no role for Bobby they kept bring Jim Beaver back for nostalgia. I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of right now. While its true that Gen didn't get her job by her relationship with Jared. I do remember a story that they were originally going to to have Ruby body hop and not just cast one person but that changed becasue of her developing relationship with Jared. So I don't see what the big deal is by Danneel having a small part in a couple of episodes.

I could also point out that getting into a sparring match whether verbal and/or physical with a guy who is watching your back doesn't really make sense either. But Dean did it anyway. These guys say inappropriate things at inappropriate times so IMO, this isn't an excuse. Plus, I don't need an over the top pimping like Dean gave Sam to the priest in Clip show. The writers could have had Dean get up an leave, instead of eating the pie that a demon gave him, (something which is really not smart) and Sam get up and give the guy a death glare and say something like, the last person who underestimated my brother ended up dead. There are ways to make it work if the writers really wanted it in there. It wouldn't have bugged so much if the writers had actually highlighted some of Dean's strengths but they didn't. He was strictly comic relief in this ep. They went out of their way to not only Sam as the book smart but also gave him the street smarts (for lack of a better term) and the ability to think quickly and come up with out of the box solutions. Traits that are normally Deans. So I don't think it was their intention to say Sam is the smart one strictly based on academics. It's well established that Dean is good with patterns and symbols. So if the writers wanted to actually show the book vs street smarts they could have easily allowed Dean to figure out the path to the safe, or come up with the solution (which was very Dean like) to use Luther as a shield. But that went to Sam.

For me its not about brother dynamics or whether Dean wants or needs it. It's a matter of me as a viewer wanting to see it. When they had Dean jump to Sam's defense, regardless of the reason, it makes the fact that Sam just sat there in silence stick out that much more.

No but someone did insult Dean's intelligence and once again Sam let it slide.

For me it doesn't matter why Dean did it. Just the fact that once again we have Dean defending Sam while Sam doesn't' defend Dean.

I disagree because when someone insulted Sam's intelligence Dean immediately got defensive whereas Sam sat there in silence. Plus, Sam got multiple opportunities to show off his smarts, with translating the spell, with the fangs and getting past the darts.

I see that now. I read it too fast and at first it sounded like they were all in this ep.

nevermind, I misread that part.

Ratings tend to fall off in the middle in the middle of the season and this sounds like a WayWard Sisters ep. So it could be more stunt casting in the hopes it will keep the ratings up rather than nepotism. From the sounds of the Variety article, every character whose appeared on screen this season is going to be in this ep. If it is a mess it won't be because of Danneel it will be because it sounds like it will be too big for Buck/Lemming to handle.

This has been one of my biggest problems with the writing of Dean since Dabb took over. It's gone back to brain vs brawn (although for awhile Dean wasn't even the brawn). I might not have minded to much if the episode had given Dean a chance to show off his smarts but it really didn't. Sam gets the smart one comment, Sam is shown to be translating the spell, Sam gets another brainy moment in Shrike's office with getting to explain the difference in fangs to a guy whose supposedly a supernatural collector. Then Sam comes up with the solution to the darts. I kept waiting for Dean to be the one to solve the problem of how to get past the darts.. (Using Shrike as a shield was something I thought of immediately.) It's been shown in the past that he's really good at patterns and symbols, so I kept hoping that maybe he'd figure it out. But nope. Dean basically just stands there while Sam comes up with a very Dean like solution to the problem. Then Smash shows up and figures out how to open the safe. We get Dean almost blowing their cover to make a comment on shoes. Jensen was great with the physical comedy but he really didn't do much else in this ep. I don't think Glynn has much respect for the character. As for Sam not standing up for Dean, IMO, its part of a larger pattern. Sam doesn't defend his brother to outside people, and when he stands up for Dean its usually disregarded later (like Sam's "Dean your a genius speech) or when Sam thanks Dean for looking out of him, and then Dean tries to look out for Sam (Trials and Demon Blood), Sam resents it and sees Dean as babying him. So does he really appreciate it? What makes it worse is that when someone insulted Sam, Dean immediately jumped to his defense. It make Sam's lack of action stand out even more.

Sam to Dean. "Don't get dead. Just curious @catrox14 if you see this as more forshadowing?