ILoveReading

I looked up King Solomon. I'm guessing one of the Winchesters will have to make a choice.

@catrox14, I really like your idea that Dean is being more reckless then normal because of Billie's decree, and on any other show I might wonder if there was something to that. But these writers aren't capable of that kind of complexity. What you see is what you get. So its more than likely exactly as it seems, cheap shots at Dean. I wouldn't be surprised if its the tip of the iceberg, especially when they hook with with the other people. I had a feeling that Ocean's moron's comment was directed more towards Dean. I would love to be wrong and this episode will have Dean showing his smarts, but I feel like its going to be more Dean in the way with super smart Sam. Watching the promo again, I noticed another scene where we see Sam fighting with a demon and and wrestling the demon knife out of his hand. Dean's probably passed out on the floor from whatever was in the pie.

One of my biggest complaints about the writing is that monsters aren't monsters anymore. They're all just misunderstood woobie's who have hearts of gold. Even Lucifer is just misunderstood and daddy didn't love him enough.

Watching the preview, I really hope its not full of insults toward Dean's intelligence. I cringed at that Ocean's Moron's comment. Why would Sam and Dean need help to get past Supernatural defenses? Aren't they supposed to be the experts?

This is part of the reason why I like Ketch. He's an unapologetic, unremorseful, sociopath. Please show, don't redeem him. Ketch is a bigger monster than Jack.

If Sam wants to work with Jack, or needs to, to help him process his grief, then there is nothing stopping him. Dean not accepting Jack doesn't invalidate this. Because Sam doesn't need Dean's approval or permission. It's why I rolled my eyes when Sam said Dean was acting like John when he was the one adopting a my way or the highway approach. There is a lot of compromises between lets kill Jack, and you must accept him. Something like, "Dean, I get it. But working with Jack is helping me so all I'm asking is that you be civil to him. I'll take full responsibility." A reasonable request under the circumstances. So I disagree that Sam backing off invalidates Sam's position I feel zero sympathy for Sam over the Benny situation. Because Sam was never held accountable for any of his actions. They were all swept under the rug I disagree Benny is a bigger woobie then Jack. Dean met Benny in purgatory. It's a place where monsters go when they die. In the past, Benny was a vampire who ran with a gang who killed people. He might have attempted to go straight because he fell in love, but that doesn't change his sketchy past. If I look at purgatory like a jail sentence, then Benny paid for his mistakes just like a gang member would. When he got out he attempted to stay straight and build a life for himself. It was Sam's actions that destroyed that but again was never called out on his mistakes. Instead Sam issued an ultimatum (I'm starting to sense a pattern here), dump Benny or I dump you. Sam got his own way. They writers even had Charlie tell Dean he ruined Sam's life. After Benny saved Sam, we got a half hearted, "he's okay I guess." The framing of that scene came across to me as Dean asking Sam's permission if it was okay not to burn Benny's bones, rather than Sam admitting Dean was right. As a Dean fan I spent the entire Benny storyline hoping he wouldn't go bad. So I was happy when he didn't. So IMO, it wasn't obvious. Benny had a past where the show keeps telling us that Jack is a blank slate. They even told us if he goes bad its because of Dean. Those are words they literally had Sam say. As for Jack, he's never deliberately hurt someone. Benny had in the past. Jack has only done things in self defense or by accident. As for Jack not feeling anything, its another tell that doesn't match the show. Jack clearly felt guilt over what he did to the guard. He was hurt when he felt Sam was using him. He's confused. He misses his mom. He's scared of Dean. He's afraid he might hurt someone. Those are all feelings. IMO, its more that Jack doesn't understand what feelings are rather than him not having them. He clearly not only feels, but feels deeply. In the past, Benny was actually a full fledged vampire who tried to change. Why is it, according to Sam, Jack deserves a chance but Benny didn't? Could it be because Jack reminds Sam of Sam? 1. Something the show is ignoring and dealing with by elevating Kelly to saint like status and clearly sending the message that Jack favors Kelly. Something they literally had Cas say. Further supported by Donatello saying that there was no evil vibes coming from Jack. 2. The manipulation and brainwashing is also being ignored. When Dean brought this up, it was dealt with by Sam doubling down on the 'you must accept Jack, Dean" mantra. Dean's revelation was followed up by the so called "grief" ep. 3. Jack has only used his powers in self defense, to defend Sam and Dean, and to try and help. His killing of the guard was purely accidental. Monsters don't feel guilt the way Jack did. Sam ultimately was rewarded for his treatment of Benny since he got his own way. So while these are good reasons to be wary of Jack, none of them of these points are supported by what we've been shown on screen. Now if the show is running a long con and Jack was evil all along then kudos to the writers for surprising me. Because I get the writers love woobie, Jack vibe. Even if he does go bad its not another Dean's right, Sam's wrong scenario since the show already laid the blame at Dean's feet and we also had Dean defending Jack this last ep so he's snowed Dean now too. This is exactly what I find the Dean fandom has to do with this Jack stuff. They have to analyse the episodes to find reasons to justify Deans' stance on Jack going evil because Jack is really just a precious cinnamon roll who loves nougat and must be protected at all costs. IMO, its all too easy for non Dean fans to just assume the worst of Dean and call him abusive, and say he needs to be punched in the throat.

IMO, it makes no difference if Dean explains his position if it falls on deaf ears. Sam's reaction to Dean's confession of was to push Jack on Dean even harder. That completely invalidates Dean's position. Then there was a long uninterrupted scene of Sam getting to explain his position and Jack being a pefect mix of sympathy and understanding about where Sam was coming from. So there was really no change either way from Dean's "truth bombs.' The audience was just left with the status quo. Nothing changed. This is I do agree with fully. My biggest criticism of the writing is that your either a mustache twirling villain or a Saintly McSainterton. No characters really have layers. (Yockey seeming to be the one person with potential in this area). I like that Dean was resistant too because its a more organic reation then, Sam had. But sadly I think the writing left a lot to be desired becasue the whole thing came across as one big Sam and Jack vs Dean.

As I mentioned earlier, St. Sam vs Mean bossy bully Dean. IMO, everything in the narrative supported this. From people literally blaming Dean, showing him no sympathy, from writing Jack as the biggest woobie in history and failing to present any evidence that Jack might go darkside and completing ignoring he's the son of Satan argument. They also completely ignored Dean's grief in an episode about grief. Honestly at this point, Deans' dark side is scarier than Jack's

Because I don;t feel this was the point the writers were trying to make.

It's pretty bad when the writer that handled Dean's grief with the most sympathy was Buck/Lemming something is very wrong with the writing. I believe that the grief ep and Advanced Thanatology should have been flipped. Seeing Dean's head space and given a fist hand account of just how much he was struggling would have put his actions in the grief ep in a whole new perspective. Given that Dean just had a new burden dumped on his shoulders in addition to missing Cas, would have made Dean's bone wariness and his anger much more understandable. It would also have put Sam in a better light because becasue it would have shown that he listened and heard Dean when he said he couldn't look at Jack. Because unfortnately, it looks like Sam was rewarding Dean for good behavior rather than showing genuine compassion to what he was going through. Sam was only nice to Dean after Dean gave into Sam's demands.

I'm sorry for your lose. I don't disagree with what your saying, unfortunately the show did not present Dean's grief sympathetically. They overemphasized woobie Jack by writing him as dangerous as a newborn kitten. The show, IMO, completely wants to pretend that Jack isn't Lucifer's son. That' he's just some random pyschic Sam and Dean picked up off the street. What I as a Dean fan think and what I believe the authorial intent was are too different things. The only person to actually show Dean any compassion was Missouri of all people. Dean flat out told Sam he had trouble looking at Jack. Sam's response was to shove Jack even further down Dean's throat and act confused as to why Dean's irritation level went up. They had the so called therapist blame Dean for making Sam upset and actually had her say that Jack was terrified of him. In an episode that was supposed to specifically be about grief, only Jack's and Sam's were given any focus. Dean's was ignored completely expect to lay the blame game on him. We had the writers actually put the blame for Jack going even on Dean, by literally having Sam say the words. Jody was completely dismissive of Dean's trauma and advice and acted like Dean was trying to boss Patience around. Then they had Dean apologize for specifically being a dick and just had Sam accept it as his due. Nothing from Sam about pushing Dean before he was ready. IMO, this storyline was handled extremely poorly. It came across as Saint Sam vs Monster Dean and nothing in the writing suggested I was supposed to see it otherwise because I feel this is exactly how the writers wanted to present it. It isn't just Dean fans. I remembered the night the grief ep aired, and I saw so called "unbiased' reporters saying Dean needed to be punched in the throat. IMO, a well written storyline should have presented both view points equally and not go so extreme. Both characters are far past this back and white approach.

The source was Clif. The reason I know is that a group of us got together to get Jensen a gift. One of our group talked to Clif about the best way to present it. He mentioned Jensen was flying commercial after the con and it might be best to ship the gift. During autos we showed Jensen the gift, and the person mentioned she knew he was flying out and probably only had a carry on bag. Jensen's response was to grin and say it should definitely be shipped. As for flights, I can say that with the time changes it can make sense to leave at night. I flew out at 11:30pm on a Saturday and didn't get home until 2am on Monday. So sometimes it can make sense to leave later in the night. I was not trying to say Jared did it deliberately. Pardon my wording, I was running on 3 hours sleep. I was just trying to point out some of the unintended consequences of Jared's actions.

My unpopular opinion is that I’m glad Ketch is back. I might be the only one but I like the character. Now give me a cat and mouse game between him and Dean.

Dean’s scruff looks to be approaching S9 levels. I wonder if it’s signicant. I’m also curious about Yockeys next episode. He wrote Ep 5 where one of Dean’s deaths was being burned by a red headed witch and Rowena is in his next episode.

Why can Jack spend episode after episode hunting and hanging around the bunker and hunt with them but Cas is barely allowed to hang out with them for an episode? My unpopular opinion is that this is only making me dislike Jack more. Because I want more Team Free Will.

If anyone is interested, I asked Kim at the con about the scene with Dean and Jody where she give him a little tap on the shoulder and Jensen responds by grabbing her hand wasn't scripted. She said it was all Jensen. She went with her instinct of for the shoulder tap, but Jensen turned it into a whole story with just that little look and a touch.

With regards to Jared's antics at the Jensen/Misha panel, I guess it would depend on how a person feels about Jared. The Jared fans seemed to love it and the Jensen/Misha fans thought it was annoying. I was there so this is my perspective. It was annoying to me personally because I had been looking forward to the Jensen/Misha panel the entire weekend. As someone who dislikes prank questions, it was even more annoying that they kept talking about it even after Jared left the stage. I'd heard that story before. It went on far too long. I was lucky enough to get picked for the question line (unfortunately too far back to make the mike), and I can tell you some of the people beside me were getting irritated and were commenting. (I have no idea if they were Sam/Jared, Misha/Cas or Dean/Jensen fans). Several kept looking at their watches. I felt bad for the first person who got to ask a question. Jared was extremely rude (my opinion) in playing the keyboards while she was trying to ask. He did this while she was talking. Having a side view, Jensen got up and looked annoyed. I'm saying this because I saw him turn off the key board, which is why Jared moved to drums. The shenigans went on for so long and got off topic they never actually addressed her question. I felt bad for her. Fans pay a lot of money, and if your lucky enough to get to the mike, to have that happen, I hope she complained to creation. Because of his antics the con was delayed 15 minutes, which threw off other events. Misha had Castiel ops which were running late, and people were worried they miss their Jared and Jensen autos because of it. I was in line behind someone who said he would have to chose between Jared and Jensen becasue he was had to catch a flight and didn't have time becasue of the delay. (Thankfully creation let him jump to the front of the line.). Jared did all this knowing Jensen also had to catch a commercial flight right after the con. So his autos were more rushed then normal. So I personally didn't find it funny at all.

I think it goes back further. I keep thinking of Dean's face after Sam announced he chose Team British Men of Letters. Dean didn't get angry or yell, he just looked resigned. I think being betrayed by Sam, Mary, and then multiple times by Cas just continued to pile on the burdens. Because after 12.15 Dean just came across as the basically just a shell. He went through the motions but he just seemed to disengaged. If I look at Dean's actions in 12.B though Dean's current head space it puts it in a different perspective. I think losing, Cas, Mary and even Crowley was the straw that broke the camel's back. But I think the depression started much earlier. I think this season would have flowed better if they reversed the order of eps 4 and 5. Because at the end of Patience, Dean flat out tells Sam he can't be around Jack. So Sam coming to Dean and saying lets go on a case, just me and you would have showed he heard and understood where Dean was coming from. I get the writers were trying to show Sam doing something nice for Dean, and it was good to see, but the biggest problem is the timing. Sam showed sympathy or empathy for Dean only after he got his way with Jack and Dean gave in. Unfortunately, it looks more like Sam giving Dean a reward for behaving rather than a genuine effort. Given what we learn about Dean and his mental state, it also puts his actions with Jack in a different perspective. (I'm not saying it makes them right, just more understandable. As for the morning scene, I agree this is where a director needs to step in. I get that JA and JP have a lot of liberty and at this point they should, but sometimes it just doesn't work. I think a better way to handle it would be Sam waking up and Dean is sitting by the computer, with hentai or busty asian beauties playing and Dean staring through the screen, kind of like he was in ep 3. Have a bottle of booze barely touched. Imagine how much more concerning it would be for Sam, and the audience, if we see that booze isn't even helping to dull the pain Dean is feeling. My head canon, is a theory I saw on Tumblr. That Dean staged the whole thing., (except the drinking) He put the tie around his head, the shoe and flogger, and laid on the floor to make Sam think he went out, when in reality he never left the room. (It makes as much sense as anything).

I also remember Jensen saying that they actually had to go back and refilm that scene because Glass wanted to add it in. From the sounds off it, Jensen wasn't thrilled with that scene either. For, episodes that get lots of buzz that I don't like are first and formost, Swan Song. Then Red Meat. I hated that ep with a passion. The way it glamourized Dean killing himself for Sam should be a big no no, not to mention Sam out-sued every Mary Sue ever written. Just My Imagination. I don't get the praise for it. Fan Fiction- I disliked that we lost demon Dean because of it. Death Door- for the reason mentioned above. I was so over Bobby at that point. The episode itself wasn't bad but it didn't resonate with me for that reason and the fact that I knew he'd be back. I didn't buy that abominable snowman story Jim was spinning. I knew he was filming Supernatural. This might be unpopular but I didnt like The Werther Project. I liked Dean's scenes with Benny, and that he fought his way out of the mist, but it had too much of a Point of No Return feel for me. The reasons why I feel this way belong more in Jerk/Bitch so I won't go into them here. That is another ep on my list, Point of No Return.

It was announced on twitter. http://www.buddytv.com/articles/supernatural/ruth-connell-returning-to-supe-66474.aspx

In this ep, Billie says one possible death for Dean is being burned by a red headed witch. Rowena is back in episode 13 which is also written by Yockey. Coincidence or forshadowing?

I'll believe that Dean is important when it plays out on screen and not in a Dean's important because he makes sure Sam fulfils his destiny kind of way.

If jack is imitating Sam neither Sam nor Dean are going to come out of it looking good.

It’s not just how Sam is acting. It’s the timing. When dean is right in Sams face yells at him that he needs space from Jack and Sams response is to shove him at Dean even harder. So why now when Dean is softening toward Jack is Sam suddenly so willing to back off and suddenly start letting Dean have his space from jack why is Sam now trying to understand what Dean needs only after Sam got his way?

The problem with this sneak peek is twofold. 1. What does it say about this relationship if it only takes Sam being nice to him to weird him out. 2. It should have come last week when Dean said he needed space from Jack. It reminds me of Sam in 8.7 when he’s suddenly being all sympathetic after when Dean gave Into Sam. Now it just looks like Sam is once again suddenly being nice because he got his own way.