shron17

I kind of get where she was coming from. But I can't get over the fact that it was Luke's daughter, Luke's life and HIS right to take the time he needed to figure out how HE wanted to fit them together. I can't help but feel Lorelai made it all about her and their relationship. Also in regards to the ultimatum, why would you want to force someone you care about to marry you when they're obviously hesitating? Not a good start for any marriage. I know someone who married after giving an ultimatum (not even an instant one like Lorelai's was) and had regrets for years later.

I'm not trying to place blame for any of these situations. I only meant that each time the person was asking out of a desperation centered around their own state of mind and gave no thought to what they were asking of the other person. Lorelai was desperate to get married or end the relationship and gave no thought about whether Luke felt ready to take that step now (before the June 3 date that she'd offered to postpone), let alone jump in the car right that moment. Chris was desperate to marry Lorelai with no thought that she'd been engaged to another man 6 months ago, let alone that she'd rather wait and have Rory there. In all three cases there was no consideration given to the other person's point of view and a lot of persuasion was used. The only difference I can see is that Lorelai was engaged to Luke when she asked and Chris was dating Lorelai when he asked. So in both of those instances saying no would risk their relationship, while Rory saying no only put to risk the possibility of a future relationship with Jess. It's no big deal if no one agrees--just a parallel I thought of while we were talking about Jess and Rory.

That's the thing--it was completely about him and only about her in light of their relationship. Most desperate pleas fall into that category. See Lorelai's ultimatum and Chris's proposal to elope in Paris.

I agree. Jess found himself all alone, once again, and tried to make a connection with the person he thought might still care for him a little. He just did it in a crazy, impetuous, but romantic way and was obviously thinking only of himself, not Rory. I hate that he did that too, but do kind of see where he was coming from. He was back at the bottom and felt as though he had to use anything he could to change (e.g. if you care for me at all you'll run away with me and help me change my life). Though, I imagine if Milo had agreed and/or was able to do more episodes it might have been completely different.

Of course Luke wasn't ready to take on a kid. Wasn't that the point all along? And it wasn't far, only an hour away, and Luke never agreed to it. Liz called and told him Jess would be on a bus to Stars Hollow the next day. Sure, he could have sent him back but at that point trying to do his best for Jess (which I think he did) was clearly the better option. When they argued about it and Jess refused to go back to school, Luke did say "then you've gotta go." He didn't say Jess had to be gone by morning. It's likely Luke thought that they would talk the next day after they both calmed down, and possibly even come to a new agreement. Even if they couldn't I imagine Luke would have offered Jess some transition time and probably money as well. Jess was the hothead who left without a plan, without thanking Luke for putting a roof over his head for the past year or so, and without a goodbye.

Remember in that one episode where Lorelai babysat, Chris was talking about trying to get her into a private school. Lorelai said something about public schools, and Chris said not unless he wants his mother to have a heart attack. So while Francine didn't have any say at all about Rory was raised, she certainly expected to with Gigi. And yes, I'm sure she wanted to be able to brag to her friends about how her granddaughter was doing at such and such school

I didn't care that much about Francine or Straub, but I would have liked to see Rory and Christopher building a better relationship--e.g. Chris apologizing and taking responsibility for the way he treated Rory throughout her life. I hated the way he seemed to get away with implying he couldn't be a proper father to Rory because Lorelai wouldn't marry him. Honestly, when Lorelai asked Chris if he wanted to come when she went to talk to Rory after Logan's proposal, I would have loved to see him go with her and say something like, I'm going to leave you to talk to your mom now, but I just wanted to tell you I love you and I'll support you with whatever you decide, and if you want to talk more about it, let me know. For me that would have gone a long way toward showing that Christopher finally got it, at least a little bit. Although I was pretty much satisfied by the Christopher/Rory scene in the revival showing that Chris never did step up, and as a consequence now didn't have much of a relationship with Rory. As for Francine, I imagine the fact that Rory didn't even meet her until she was 16, and didn't see her father often, meant she just didn't have that much interest. Also, the show itself was always focused more on the Gilmores. But if it really bugs you, it might make a good fanfiction. What bothered me about Francine was the fact that she and Lorelai apparently had no contact at all while Chris and Lorelai were married.

Passive people don't generally do anything to rock the boat or change things. It might have been difficult to form a relationship with Rory after all those years and Francine wasn't sufficiently motivated to go to the trouble. On the other hand, Chris needed help with Gigi and brought her around so that was easy.

Emily never approved of Luke for Lorelai, she just noticed that they seemed to be more than friends and realized early on they could get together. She called them idiots because they kept saying they were friends when it was so obvious there was more there, not because she wanted them together. From That Damn Donna Reed:

I think they simply refused to acknowledge that they had agreed to help Lorelai, probably because it was one of the few times she willingly asked for and accepted their help, and also as a matter of pride.

My guess is it's not so much that they're lying but really good at blocking out reality that's not to their liking. I used to have some people in my life that were good at this--sometimes they even rewrote the past to reflect the way they "thought" it should have been. Sure, it's lying, but some people don't even realize they are lying let alone admit to it. And yes, definitely crazy making.

My recollection is that he was going to be the new boyfriend and be introduced at the end of season 4. When he got the VM part, his part got changed to a one-off, so his scene/character would have been somewhat different. Makes me wonder if the original plan was for Rory to lose her virginity to Dean.

And way Rory went after Jess after the whole town got mad at Luke

I agree that on the surface it looked like this. But there's a brief scene in "The Deer-Hunter" that I felt showed the relationship between the 3 of them was more like a surrogate family. Rory was studying in the diner and threw her pen and Luke brought her pie. Then Lorelai comes in and says "She's eating pie, did she even have dinner?" to which Luke replies "You raised her, I just serve." It's clear this is normal--Luke looks out for Rory more than the average customer and Lorelai trusts that he will. Combined other bits we get--Luke fixing their house and in fact lecturing Lorelai if she pays someone to do something he could do for free and both Lorelai and Rory looking out for Luke when he was struggling (e.g. with Jess, Uncle Louie's funeral, etc.) it seemed to me the family relationship came first. I think this dynamic came about not because Luke liked Lorelai, but more in response to needs by all of them caused by lack of family. I don't think Rory looked at Luke as a surrogate father, but as someone who supported both her and her mother in much the way a family member would. As for the details of their relationship, given Luke's personality I'd say his behavior towards Rory took him out of his comfort zone more than most other characters.

I think this just meant Jess thought living with Luke in the past should automatically give him access to the password over customers or employees.

I agree, but the one big difference is that Jess was petulant in that situation because of the other big things he was going through at the time (not graduating, meeting his dad). And as far as I could tell the only thing upsetting Dean was Rory's reaction to his declaration of love during their special date. It's kind of a pet peeve of mine though, that someone would get upset about not saying I love you back, especially in high school.

I don't mind Joel, but he seems more like an appreciator of comedy than a comedian. Quite possibly Midge couldn't be doing what she does if not for being exposed to a variety of comedy acts while she was dating Joel. The comment about continuing to try to get a slot because Midge wanted him to seemed weird--it seemed clear in the pilot it was his dream and he was persistent enough to go to Open Mic night consistently. Even if Midge did pave the way for his success with her brisket and her notebook.

Watching the scene again I think it was because women's roles were changing ever so slightly and Midge could be received in ways by her audience that Sophie couldn't be 15-20 years ago.

I agree. And maybe when she processed it she realized this very successful female comedian was telling her to do the exact opposite of what's worked well for her from the beginning. Midge's successes are all from exposing herself, in more ways than one, to the audience and they respond to her honesty and vulnerability and the way they see parts of themselves in her. As for the "activist" tone what I took from Midge's remarks was refusal to buy into Sophie's tried and true advice that she couldn't be successful at being funny simply by being herself. And honestly, I think the women's movement often starts in the contrast between women being who they're expected to be vs. feeling free to be who they are.

When she gave them that name she didn't know Joel had heard her routine and still thought they might be getting back together. But since he did I'm pretty sure his ego took a big enough hit that they won't be reconciling any time soon and quite possibly never.

Lorelai was always more than willing to blame anyone but Rory, but Rory never gave her details either. I think all she told Lorelai was that Mitchum said she didn't have it. Kind of similar to when she neglected to tell her mother Dean broke up with her because she didn't respond when he told he loved her. That said, Rory probably omitted details that made her look bad because of the pressure of being up on that pedestal. But also, parenting is very different than coaching and the two don't mix well. Most of us take much more offense to something our mother says than anyone else.

There isn't anything at all wrong with redirecting one's career and many college students do so. But they don't drop out--they talk to their advisors, they explore other majors and possibly transfer to another school. Most who do drop out do so for financial reasons and have a full-time job lined up to save more money. Lorelai wanted Rory to have a plan and not just sit at home in Stars Hollow with a part-time job at the bookstore. Instead of running sobbing to Richard and moving into the poolhouse Rory could have come up with a better plan to pitch to Lorelai.

Joel may get his stuff together eventually, but I always knew seeing Midge be successful at what he wanted to do would be cause major trouble. I loved that he still went out and hit the guy who was heckling her. I didn't love every scene in the series but this last episode made it all worthwhile. Looking forward to next season!

Yes, fans appreciate shows in many varied ways. Some may have those reactions. Some might add 3, that Lorelai in this situation is using the words I love you as away of convincing Luke to elope immediately and not assume that Amy's trying to "show" us something. A lot of others might have completely different reactions. The fact that I don't love every single thing that Amy did with the show doesn't mean I can't appreciate the dialog, the characters, the relationships, the town of Stars Hollow, etc. etc. Fans don't all have the same opinions. I don't love Tony Soprano and thought the blackout ending was fitting. It seemed completely believable to me that Don Draper would marry Megan and I didn't mind her all that much. I'd much rather focus on the things I do like about shows rather than what I don't and would much rather see shows written as those who created them intended rather than catering to fans.

Maybe it would be more accurate to say some viewers didn't completely agree with Amy's vision for the show. Which is okay, but doesn't change the fact that she more or less created it and that the show and the characters couldn't be as they are without her. With all of the different opinions offered here, would you really rather watch a show created by group think than one created by someone with a strong vision and the talent to bring it to the screen? I know I wouldn't. I know I'm only one person, but I enjoyed the revival very much and am very grateful it was made. It pretty much gave me everything I needed to see for a much more satisfying ending to the series than season 7.