Lemuria

Can I like this 10,000?

I believe that it was nullified when Dean – – Deanmon, that is – – killed Lester. Essentially, Deanmon breached the terms of the contact, rendering it void. Hell isn't going to bother with Lester’s wife if it isn’t going to get anything out of it. And no way am I going to believe that Sam did anything offscreen. In Doylelist terms, the writers probably didn’t even think about the issue, which ends up meaning that in Watsonian terms, Sam didn’t. Besides, I’m just tired of being expected to write the writers out of their mistakes. It’s their job to write a coherent script and AFAIAC what they fail to put up there on the screen—either visually or in dialogue—simply isn’t in the episode.

I have to disagree about Sam’s culpability in regard to the Lester situation – – but not in regard to Lester, who would probably have ended up damning himself to Hell anyway. For me, what really made me angry with Sam, in telling Lester about the crossroads demon and in helping him to get to the point where he could reach that demon – – even if Sam thought he could prevent that, though he really didn’t seem to have prepared for that eventuality—was that Sam was actually setting up Lester’s wife. And that he didn’t seem to care. After it went South in regard to Lester ending up actually making a deal, Sam just walked away from it. He knew that Lester had just arranged to have a demon send after Lester’s wife, who turned out to be an essentially innocent person, and he did nothing about it. This was on Sam, who should have made sure that there was no way that Lester could’ve gone through with that deal. Having failed to prevent the deal, it should now have been his responsibility to protect Lester’s wife. But he didn’t seem to care about what happened or refused to accept any responsibility for what happened, or both. This did not paint a very good picture of Sam, IMO.

I’m wondering, in that picture with Dean lying on the ground surrounded by some black goop, if the black goop is not leviathan related As for Dean dying at the end, I have my doubts about that, if only because Dean dying would make the end ultimately about Dean and it would be what most Viewers would remember about the finale. Would Dabb give Dean that much prominence at the end?

Another thing I thought was completely off: apparently in the 1200 years (assuming the Cage runs on the same month/year relationship as Hell itself does) Adam completely forgot that the only thing he had said he wanted—and presumably the reason he said yes to Michael in the first place—was to get back to Heaven and be with his mother. Now it’s all school, job and burgers. First Mary and now this. Mothers really get screwed in Dabbernatural, don’t they?

Great minds and all that: I was thinking exactly the same thing. He just seems to be the one making the decisions (except, of course, Sam’s and Eileen’s bad decision at the end; that was all on them!) and it was really good to see that again. (It’s also one of the reasons why I think he is the one who made the apology at the end: A good leader takes the responsibility and the burdens of mistakes onto himself.)

They don’t necessarily know the current whereabouts but they do know where she was when Chuck first showed up (presuming that they could trust Chuck!): He told him that she was in Vegas. I guess the Dreadful Duo are trying to prove that, no, they aren’t anti-Dean, they are actually equal opportunity dumber-downers by having Eileen and Sam be absolute idiots at the end of the episode. Not only did they not even appear to suspect that it might be a trap but they also left for an ordinary hunt right in the middle of a considerably more serious and more important situation. I agree with all of the posts that criticized the writing in regard to the fight in hell. When I watched that debacle, all I could think of was a demon, practically crying, saying “It’s the end. We’re dead. We’re all dead.“ They really have destroyed the angels.

I also think that both the show and a certain percentage of fans have taken the position that Sam’s time in Hell was worse than Dean’s. I concede that it was longer and I’m sure it wasn’t fun However, season seven made me doubt that it was worse. Sam’s hallucinations of Lucifer basically came down to portraying Lucifer as an annoying prat. Nothing particularly terrifying or horrific. (Sort of the way Lucifer was, to me, in season five: with the exception of “Hammer of the gods” I did not find Lucifer particular in menacing or scary at all. I seriously doubt that if Dean had been having hallucinations of his time in hell, he would be visualizing Alastair in anything like the same way. That’s one of the reasons why I always thought that Dean’s time in hell had been more horrific then Sam’s. IN my opinion, Alastair was way more terrifying and menacing Lucifer; fortunately for earth, he was without conquest ambitions and was content to be Hell’s grand inquisitor.

This, x1,000!

Okay, question: why would they cast two brothers to play Sam and Castiel as toddlers? In the casting, they seem to be going for a family resemblance, which makes no sense for Sam and one James Novak.

It was a 13-part comic book story that DC is going to be making into an animated film, which may be in two parts. According to some sites, Jensen is going to be voicing one of the characters. Which character it is, is not certain but some think it will be Harvey Dent.

Thanks. And “ouch!” 😈

What did Jensen say? ( I know about the “I don’t care“ comment he made when talking about being the director on the episode; I’m assuming that this is something else, yes?) Thanks

Thing is, doing them right would have meant firing Dabb, Singer, the Nepotism Duo and basically all of the writers before the season started.

Actually, that won’t work. According to the dialogue in 11.23: “AMARA: That's not me. With my brother getting weaker, the scales are tipping away from light. DEAN: And into darkness. AMARA: Into nothing. When God's gone, the universe—everything will cease to exist. Including me.” So killing them both won’t stop creation from deconstructing. Everything will become the Empty.

The dream/vision/glimpse of Chuck’s AUs that we saw at the beginning of last week’s episode had Dean saying something along the lines of “what you did to Bobby… To Jody. It’s the demon blood“. So I think that we’ve seen both a demon blood Sam and a Lucifer Sam.

I am assuming that next weeks episode is the one that was mentioned in the TV Guide (I think it was. It might’ve been entertainment weekly), where Dean is getting thrown around and Sam suddenly uses powers to defeat a witch.

In SPN lore, the Mark of Cain was not given to Cain by Chuck but by Lucifer (Chuck initially gave it to Luci for a reason that involves Chuck’s sister, Amara). As per “First Born” in season 9, it was Abel who was cozying up to Lucifer. In order to save his brother’s soul, Cain agreed to become Lucifer’s servant; Lucifer would let Abel’s soul go to Heaven but Cain had to be the one to kill him.

Cambion, I have some stories on fanfiction.net under the name MistWraith.

I’m late to the party as usual. 😀 I really loved the opening sequence: Badass Dean! Bearded Dean! Benny! (Come back, Benny. Lots of us miss you!) I had a problem with Mary – – as much as I dislike the Mary that Dabb gave us over the last two years – – being an afterthought, and less important to the brothers than Rowena. My biggest problem though was Sam’s comment that they would do the same as the parents in this episode. Seriously, Sam? You believe that you and/or Dean would kill innocent people to help Jack? (You know, the alleged chewy-centered nougat that just murdered your mother.) I suppose if this is not totally out of character for Sam, who seem to have no moral or ethical qualms over what Amy was doing and thought it would be a good idea to let her go, but it definitely will be out of character for Dean in that respect. I suppose this is not totally out of character for Sam, who seemed to have too few moral or ethical qualms over what Amy was doing not to think it would be a good idea to let her go, but it definitely would be out of character for Dean in that respect, IMO, even in Dabb’s reign. And if the show went there with either of the brothers or both of them, for me this would be a line those characters could never come back from. As for Rowena, I don’t get the apparent depth of grief. She was an enemy longer than she was a help to them, she betrayed them multiple times and she killed innocent people just because she could. (of course, this is somewhat consistent for Sam, because he tends to “bond“ with beings he feels a connection with. Face of Lucifer, anyone?) Besides, I think she also took this as an opportunity to gain the power she’s always wanted, since I think we’re going to be seeing her as the Queen of Hell. (No spoilers, just speculation)

So...it’s all Dean groveling again. What a surprise.

Yay! 🤩🎆🥳🎇

I don’t know, I have a feeling that even after spending some time thinking about the ending, I might still have a problem with it! 🤨 One thing I did take away from his discussion is the difference in treatment he gets from Eric Kripke and from Andrew Dabb. Dabb, who had no trouble with having a dinner with Jared to discuss what was going to go on in season 14 or with Alex to discuss what is going to go on in season 15, could not be bothered to have a discussion with Jensen when Jensen specifically indicated he was having some issues with Michael and that he would like to discuss it with Dabb. Kripke not only listened to Jensen‘s thoughts and feelings on the finale but also took the time to go over it with him.

Maybe Belphegor is taking his fiddle and going down to Georgia. (What? It makes as much sense as anything else that’s been on the show this season.)

I think that Ketch was going to the hospital not because of the iron buckshot but because Dean shot him with a regular gun.