wayne67

Lol I don't even know who R& L are supposed to be so that was completely unintentional of me. On an unrelated note could someone list the POV characters for me ? So if I ever read the books (I probably will when the series finished but not before) I know which chapters are boring and can be skipped without losing much of story.

My issue is not that I'm trying to apply current age of consent laws to fictional characters in a medieval society in an alternate universe but that a 30 year old man marrying someone half his age makes it dubious as to whether it's a true meeting of the minds. I really don't see how it's romantic for a 30 year old whose main past times is to rape and murder people to buy a wife, use her for sex and then after a month or so to be seduced by her when she actually becomes a bit more dominant during sexy times. I don't buy that as a romance no matter how it's spun. It becomes more about power dynamics than character ages for me. YMMV

Either or both. I'm never quite clear on who qualifies as part of the ensemble in GOT With this show it's easy the main characters are the study group and everyone is either secondary characters or tertiary characters with GOT I can't even narrow it down to 20 main characters with ease.

Now that I think about it what about Oberyn ? Does he get a sexy scene with anyone ? or is it merely referenced that he's a polyamorous sort of dude?

Thanks for all the responses people Ok so...

For those who have read the books is there ANY consensual sex scenes in the books? I know the show has Rob and Talisa but I can't think of any others that wasn't steeped in arranged marriages with men twice their age, part of espionage, blood magic, prostitution and or coercion.

I'm not sure where to start with my reply... I'm not saying the Omecs are great people but Book Seller wanted the Omec's to die (as far as I can recall) based on no information and with no effort to convince Defiance authorities about a trial. He instead made a half assed attempt to get them to kill them because of his grief and anger. Then rabble roused a lynch mob which was then dispersed after creating a noose to murder someone already potentially bleeding to death anyway. Then after that failed he went on a shooting spree without any apparent concern for collateral damage. He was essentially a loose cannon. Nolan by your own argument may not have been justified in that shooting that one guy. Nolan also has a nickname as No Man for murdering everyone in sight. There was also murdering Irissa's parents and basically everyone in that vicinity which is overkill. Irissa apparently gets a free pass on murdering a city because she wasn't in her right mind but she didn't make much of an effort to try and get rid of the thing once it gave her what she wanted. We don't know if that boy was poking her successfully or not but it seems he was trying to provoke a response and he got one... Daughter Omec may have overreacted to the provocation but we don't know if it was her intent to kill the boy or merely to retaliate with poking of her own. Noone asked for her side of the story before the lynch mob got their hands on her. Frankly Bookseller and son got the Darwin award for too dumb to live because after making such a big deal about how dangerous and evil the Omec were, the son goes and pokes one (or tries to) while it's cornered, caged and injured (not usually the situation that results in calm measured responses to provocation) and the father tries to murder an injured one twice seemingly forgetting there is more than one and they may want retribution. I'd agree that the Omec should probably be imprisoned and or held for questioning but how exactly would they manage that ? They could try and kill them but what happens to the town if they're unsuccessful they've added another Votan race to their lists of hazards including the Voulge and the Votan Collective and gained nothing from it. It's far better to keep them close and relatively happy, find out everything they know and have and if they have any weakness THEN take whatever action seems appropriate then. Rushing in half assed with no plan for Justice is foolhardy and problematic for the town if they fail. Defiance doesn't need more enemies at the moment, they need all the allies they can get even if they're omnivorous megalomaniacs. It wouldn't be the first time they made peace with a race trying to conquer and or eat them...

The guy Nolan shot had previously organised a lynch mob to hang an injured female incapable of defending herself at the time. Then after the mob was being dispersed he shot up a doctors office with no clear lines of sight peppering the place with bullets endangering everyone there. Then he had a gun pointed at Irisa... As for the Omec daughter that stupid kid kept poking her with a sharp metal thing over and over again while she was hurt, chained to a tiny room and it could be argued that it was self defense. As for the Omec father threatening the town. The Mayor was holding his injured daughter hostage and refused to disclose her location until he provided them with a good deal on gualanite extraction. He had asked for his daughter's wherabouts several times without either of them listening to him so he was probably just trying to get them to shut up and answer his one question before answering dozens of theirs. From what he said if they had killed the two Omec they would have been responsible for a genocide of a species. Also regardless of their possible crimes they managed to reopen the deserted mines and have a ship in orbit. Killing them would be premature for several reasons A) they may have better tech in their ships B) if more Omec show up they might not take kindly to having one of their members shot. C) There is no indication that the Omec are defenseless and will be taken down without massive collateral damage. D) The mining tech may be DNA, retina or password protected or otherwise encrypted which may limit their access to the tech after their death E) The Omec may have useful tech, information or combat experience that may come in handy to the scrappy mining town. Nolan and Irisa have murdered tonnes of people and they get to roam around the town scot free too so it's not like there isn't precedent. Nolan didn't tolerate peacekeeper woman beating on Irisa for murdering Tommy because of her extenuating biological imperatives.

I was thinking more along the lines of humans are possibly a minority on Earth now that Votans are present on Earth. I'm not sure if they ever mentioned numbers but if I was an alien race taking over the world I'd probably attack the tech and resource rich first world nations that have low population numbers to gain a foothold on the planet before trying to tackle the other nations that may have more population and poverty issues. I'm thinking the humans may be like 2/8 the population of Earth now so ALL humans are kind of minorities and all the aliens are both minorities and foreigners and unsuccessful conquerors which makes for such interesting dynamics. Hence the Alak Christie relationship and how the second generations of the conflict have such different reactions to Earth and aliens and back history. I find it curious that the Omec are being held responsible for the legends about their actions every 70 years which from one view point was 5000 years ago. I would have preferred to learn more about one of the other races though maybe the Omecs will lead to more discoveries/information about the Indogene. If what that Omec guy said was true and they were created than it's possible that they were the race that developed terraforming.

How about killing people based on racial stereotypes about past behaviour is immoral and illegal and as Mayor and lawkeeper (not sure if he's doing that still) it sets a terrible precedent for the community which is a hot bed of diversity and conflict already. I mean if a race was going to be held hostage by previous history every character on the show should be exterminated for their various race/species crimes. The Votans were responsible for partial genocide of the human race... Our main Castithans kill other Castithans all the time. Without trying to be flip aren't most of the characters of Defiance multicolored and ethnic by virtue of the storyline. We don't know how often they need to eat people but indications say about 70 years... For all we know they evolved from predators and became omnivores similar to humans prone to violent conflicts and as result polluted their environment and decided to build space ships and tinker with their genetic structure to make themselves more durable. They go out into the stars and don't find anything nearby until every 70 years when the Votan system is close to theirs and they wage war against them because of the usual reasons, land, power, religious difference and or target practice for new techs. At the start they just do the typical stuff of raping and killing their enemies as our species has done throughout history until something happened that added eating to the menu of despicable acts that sentient creatures do to each other. It could have been anything, a particularly long and nasty siege that used up more typical food stores so they started eating their prisoners and found them highly nutritious/ satisfactory. It could have been a nuclear winter, a foreign pathogen (from one of the Votan worlds), a bioweapon gone wrong/right. Predators and prey species tend to evolve by the maxim 'survival of the fittest' so prey runs faster or they get eaten by the lions so the fast survive. As for the lions if they're too slow, weak or old to run down/ kill prey they die. Could be the same for the Omec, they may worship the hunt/war or they may believe in weeding out the weak and stupid with constant war. I think it's way too early to judge an entire species by 2 characters in one episode. They might change as race when they are forced to interact with the humans and Votans as equals rather than prey. Like the Votans had to do with the humans to varying success.

To be fair to Oberon and his claim... Myrcella didn't die in Dorne she died on the water outside Dorne so technically she wasn't hurt IN DORNE. Maybe that's the reason they were trying to drag her away from the palace so they could kill her off territory. They've never made much sense though. If Trystane just lost his wife to be why would he want to continue to Kings Landing? He'd be better off returning to Dorne and his kingdom than going to a place run by the family of a dead princess . Personally I'm not outraged by the good guys dying or the bad guys making more progress in the short term. My issues are that a whole bunch of story lines are left in limbo while boring pointless storylines are introduced. For instance instead of spending quite a lot of this season with the tedious Sand Snakes they could have simply killed Myrcella off screen before Jamie arrived. Then we could have used the extra 30 minutes that would have saved on that tedious storyline and checked in on the Qarth wizards, Bran's elf quest, Rickons whereabouts, a reason for why the White Walkers are taking their sweet time to head south and or more time spent with dragons/ dire wolves.

I think fairly high as they were still in sight of the Dornish coast lands...

I don't know, she ignored the teachings of her supposed Master, failed to carry out her actual assignment getting justice for someone else for a change, stole a face from the super assassins with no training as to their use, then blinded a guy subjecting him to an extended and brutal death with repeated stabbings with a really small knife which brings her death toll to what ? 10 people she's killed ? And she is blinded as a result. I don't think that's particularly harsh considering she's basically a psychotic teenager with a hit list of people who've 'wronged her' . YMMV though. Cersei's walk of shame felt like it took forever. I suppose that's the point in a way but it doesn't necessarily make it entertaining to watch. Was I the only one singing the song from Buffy the Musical episode "Where do we go from here?" when they panned down the stairs of Dany's leftover minions Drogon was hilarious he's just like "I'm feeling sleepy and lazy" and Dany's like "Young Man I have things to do back at home, take me back this instant." It's funny how much of a stereotypical teenage male he is in between the flying and flame throwing. Did the deserting sellswords join with the Boltons ? Or was that the Bolton army ?

There's also another option that Whispers is a psychic vampire acquiring the skills and knowledge of all the Sens8's he murders. Or he just enjoys lobotomising them and hijacking them to commit murders whenever he feels like. Sens8 drones would make the perfect sleeper agent assassins, you place one in a medical care facility and activate when you have an enemy or an information leak to plug.

Please tell me who the protagonist on Game of Thrones is. I've never been clear on whether it's supposed to be Jon Snow or Dany or any of the people in House Tyrell, Lannister or Stark. Anyway this episode was good but I think it would be good to end the show on a relative high instead of dragging it out until it becomes a pale imitation of itself.

It's all fairly subjective. I watched Robbie Amell for 20 episodes of Tomorrow People and the only time he really seemed alive as a character was with Astrid his best friend, he seemed to have negative chemistry with his supposed Love Interest and it didn't help that he was basically carrying the Idiot Ball for most of the first season. As for Stephen I watched a couple of seasons of Arrow and he was okay but he didn't really do much for me as a viewer. He wasn't horrible or anything just never really clicked with me as a viewer for whatever reason. I don't even know the name of the actor that plays Major. He rates a neutral for me as far as acting goes. Nothing exciting but nothing too excruciating delivery wise but I may have low standards as a viewer as I love myself some cheesy soap opera. I can understand how being indifferent to an actor can make someone less inclined to take their POV in an argument but some characters/actors seem to generate a lot of hate for reasons I never understand story wise. The actor may or may not suck (YMMV) but the character hasn't really done much to merit scorn other than being around trying to find out why teenage runaways are disappearing and being somewhat reckless. Yet Liv goes about her life with no regard for the spread of zombiefication and noone cares. Boggles my mind. She could at least wear gloves to prevent accidental scratching when she's manhandling people.

I didn't say that all people on the forum felt a particular way. I just posted a few examples of some people criticising Major's reaction to being turned into a zombie and asked why they thought it was unlikeable that he was upset about being turned into something inhuman against his will. Especially how some people's reaction is that if he didn't like being a zombie he could just kill himself . I'm not even like super fond of Major but it seems unreasonable to expect someone to kill themselves if they disagreed with the medical care as if Major has no right to object to something that happens to his body. It seems extreme to want a character to off themselves just because they were irritable for like 2 minutes after undergoing torture, near death and zombification. SOME people have been complaining about Major being stupid and reckless for doing the same thing that most protagonists do in every show basically sticking their nose into the businesses of dangerous people without a solid plan eg Veronica Mars & the Supernatural Brothers Just curious as to why there's so much hate for the character. Yeah he's kind of bland acting wise but he's much better than Robbie Amell in either Tomorrow People or the Flash.

I'm thinking they just stare at the face to memorise its every feature and morph... A way to practise shapeshifting.

Well from the last shot it looked like there was 10 or so Sons of Harpy alive by the time Drogon flew out there with about 8 unsullied guarding Jorah and Daario who are good fighters themselves. Most of the Sons of Harpy were either killed or scattering during that whole burning/ripping apart thing that Drogon did. Considering that the Sons of Harpies motives are super unclear. For all we know their mercernaries hired by the Masters in this city or other cities or even the Qarth wizards solely to sow chaos in Dany's reign. Whatever their motives are, they'd probably be shaken by a dragon attack and be rethinking their life goals and may not wish to reengage with the remaining people as its likely all the noise and chaos will have the Second Sons or the Unsullied arriving soon. It's far better for them to get out of sight and lay low until things settle and they can plan their next ambush.

Or she could have given him the choice while he was still Conscious... Or at the very least after being told that he was cranky that he'd been zombiefied instead of receiving medical care she could have respected that he wanted a CHOICE and asked him before dosing him with an experimental "cure" while asleep. Also did she forget that she used to be an ER Doctor? She didn't even bother to try and give him any medical care at all. Not even a half assed attempt to stop the bleeding before turning him into a zombie. Major was unconscious/bleeding out when she dosed Blaine with the Cure so it's unclear if he heard or understood any of her diatribe to Blaine. Also if he did, that would be more of a reason to be upset as she told Blaine herself she has no idea whether it'll kill him or not... From Major's POV if she did have a cure she would have used it herself unless she liked eating human brains and from a normal human perspective that's unlikely a best choice option. Why should he assume there's a readily available cure ? People are allowed to be upset about how people saved their life. It's like saying that you'd be happy to receive a new heart from some dodgy person that killed the original person for spare parts for profit. Major's entire interactions with zombies has been murder, deception and consumption of brains. Why should he want to be all team zombie ? Liv could have called a bloody ambulance instead of sitting around cradling his bleeding body uselessly. It's not like Liv gave him a chance to adjust to being a zombie for more than 5 minutes before making another unilateral choice about his body/life. Maybe if she gave him a day or two to process maybe he would have dug past his initial disgust and contempt to thank her for saving his life even if it was by ruining his normal life by turning him into a ZOMBIE. It took over 6 months for Liv to find a way to deal with the zombie condition in a way that made her feel sort of okay about the process and yet Major can't be annoyed or upset for 6 minutes without criticism ? What's that about ?

I'm reminded of a scene early on in season 4 where Dany and her crew of Unsullied and co hang out outside the walls of Mereen and she tells Jorah that he is her "most trusted advisor, my most valued general and my dearest friend" and I'm reminded of why Dany was so hurt by his betrayal and why it took so long and so much conflict for her to find it in her heart to forgive him.

See below Not a lot of people were criticising Major this episode but it kind of feels like the whole season people have been complaining about Major because he's been cluelessly roaming around endangering his life every other episode trying to figure out what happened with dead teenagers. Which I don't understand the criticism at all as Liv and Ravi declined to tell him anything useful. Liv eats brains and deals with her guilt about it by solving their murders which results in a karmic wash as far as it goes. Major tries to solve a massive conspiracy and he gets no love until he starts murdering the zombies who kept him captive in the finale. It's odd. Liv has been obsessing about Major... We haven't seen any indication as far as I remember that Major has been obsessing over her. So I don't understand the OTP complaints either as it's fairly low key and one sided and infrequent. Unlike predestined pairing eg Flash and Iris That said I haven't been captivated by Major. I love Ravi and anything with Ravi is usually awesome but I find Liv deeply hypocritical and tiresome. The show reminds me of Dollhouse where the main character is different every other episode and this show displays even less of Liv's core personality than that show which is kind of odd considering. Ravi is basically the only reason I watched the show but Liv has always been a bit haphazard and hard to relate to because I'm never quite sure who she actually is. For instance that "I'm a doctor not a killer" would have resonated more if she hadn't killed a friend who was zombified while on sociopath brains or hadn't killed Enforcer guy. It's like do something with Blaine. She could of at least shot him in payback for Lowel before letting him wander off. I mean seriously? She just kind of let him wander off without trying to extract any information from him whatsoever. *edited to add some much needed clarity to my thoughts

That's an interesting thought. Do you think the White Walkers picked up some live babies from Hardhome to turn into new White Walkers ? I mean zombie babies aren't really worth the bother combat wise but more White Walkers would be of use after they lost a couple (one to Sam and one to Jon) in the North. There were bound to be some babies lying around from the people who didn't want to go on the ships and considering the estimated amount of people there would have been at least 100 babies about. 100 new White Walkers ? Though we don't know how long it takes for a WhiteWalker baby to become an adult Whitewalker or even if it's necessary for them to mature before summoning the dead. On an unrelated note I do wonder what the plan is with Essos. Will Dany just appoint someone of a non slavery based lineage as the Warden of the East while she's gone ?

I don't get why people are holding Major's outburst against him. He lost his job, he spent time in a mental hospital, he was attacked in his own home, beaten up in jail, kidnapped and ate Tommy's brain and had spent an unknown time in a meat freezer. Then he gets stabbed and told his ex girlfriend misled him every time the subject of zombies comes up and is a zombie and she zombifies him and wants them to be together literally 30 seconds after waking up. Why is Liv's selfishness celebrated as her being interestingly flawed and his momentary petulance after all the zombie related chaos infecting his life viewed as wrong? Liv keeps making stupid decisions and Major is the first to call her on her BS. She's killed zombies before and yet when it comes down to it she can't be bothered doing it to the main bad guy for reasons... I don't think I'll be watching this show again for a lot of reasons. Between the random personality of the week and all the suspension of disbelief about Liv's solving cases without anyone being curious about it I doubt I can be bothered.

The problem is that analogy doesn't really hold up. I mean antibiotics cure several types of infections but it doesn't make you immune from catching that infection again. That would mean Ravi's cure that he whipped up in like 2 months in the morgue lab is both a cure and a vaccine against infections from zombieism which considering he's only had access to 3 zombies would be ridiculous. Liv's plans as per usual makes no sense. Why cure Blaine? Just shoot him in the knee caps and interrogate him. It won't kill him and you can find the names and locations of all those zombies. Also that Cure hasn't been tested on primates, nor has there been any research on long term or even short term effects. For all she knows the Cure she gave Major could give him chronic migraines, weight loss, mood swings, organ failure or death. There was no ticking clock on that decision. She could have at least asked him if he wanted to be dosed with an experimental Cure. On the upside Major did something that Liv should have done a long time ago and taken care of the distribution network. It would have been nice if someone actually found out who they were delivering to but I guess that just leaves it all open ended.