morgankobi

OH.My.Jeebus. How did I not see that before?!?!? Bill S. Preston and "Ted" Theodore Logan! My new favorite thing about this show :)

For me (just explaining my current thought-not trying to convert anyone), it is clear that the bartender becomes dad directly after Peter Abernathy is removed. There is nothing at all to indicate otherwise (no weird cuts and visual glitches haven't started), and the way the show presents the change is to illustrate to the audience how such things can be dealt with so easily and to re-enforce that these are (mostly) just programmable bots. We see old MiB with Abernathy and I draw the conclusion in a post above that Dolores runs from new, bartender Dad straight to William and Logan, therefore they are there at least somewhat after the change of dads. To me, MiB is running with the "present" timeline through this current episode's interaction with Ford, his noticing of the new Wyatt storyline, and with Little-Hemsworth's viewing of him on their surveillance. Based on DadSwitch, I place William/Logan just after or concurrent with MiB. This, of course, can be explained away with enough twisting, but neither the dialogue nor the directing have given me anything to just assume any scene change could be a different timeline. If what we have seen up until now is used, the "glitch" at the end when the train car seems empty is the version that is the memory. Every flash of the "past" for Dolores before has been quick/short. To believe that from when she meets William at night in the woods up until the train car was shown as empty is a continuous, long memory instead of the present, (as opposed to the short flash we get of Dolores alone) would require us to disregard what they have shown so far with no reason to. It would be lazy writing, to me. The one thing I am still holding out for is any mention of Wyatt in the William or Logan scenes. Wyatt is definitely new for the people in the Control Center, as well as for MiB. If William or Logan runs into any part of the new story, I think it's safe to say they are contemporary.

There is nothing to suggest that her dad has ever glitched like this-and his glitch is what set her off. It hinges on him. We see the MiB in episode 1 right after old- Dad has been shot, and he even mentions that the dad "gave it up quickly (and must be) losing his touch," so he's seen that dad before. Also, a little over 30 minutes in we see Kissi get frisked at the end of his shift by the bartender (who becomes new dad), and then he walks outside to get taken at gun point by the MiB. (The bartender is still the bartender at this point.) If the MiB is with the old-dad and William is associated with the new, I think it that is either proof, or a mistake.

I never said William/Logan and new-Dad were in town together. In Episode 3, Dolores has the loop where she breaks free and kills the guy who drags her back to the barn, runs back toward the porch (where we can see new, brown-haired Dad on the ground. Old Dad has a sizable bald-spot and grayer hair), remembers what is about to happen, rides away on a horse and into William and Logan's camp. Sure, someone is going to argue that since we didn't watch her ride the whole way, she could be riding to William's camp from some other thing, but there's nothing to suggest that at all. That's more of a reach than I care to make. (The thing is, I think the two timeline idea is really interesting, I just don't see that as being plausible right now.)

Actually, the mention of Peter Abernathy above makes me think he may be the proof that there aren't two timelines 30 years apart. He was Dolores's dad when we first see the MiB return to the ranch and drag her into the barn. He glitches and is replaced with the new dad who is her dad while William and Logan are in town.

...what they first said FTWD was going to be.

I like that idea. When I tortured myself with Revolution, I liked to think that only the USA had lost all power and only thought it was the whole world. The rest of the countries were just sitting back and watching the idiocy unfold. Like maybe a group being over-taken by walkers and 7-8 people (including Karate Kid 4's dad) not making it back... Does immunity really matter? Survivors this long into the ZA know to about a brain puncture after death. At some point, the walkers should eventually start to thin out and then being sure your dead are "really most sincerely dead" will just be a part of life. There doesn't appear to be any side effects at all while you're alive. And since no one seems to be interested in any sort of science, there's no way at all to test Judith, Baby Gleggie, or choir director's baby anyway.

I think Logan will enjoy the beating, sadly. Also, didn't he smile a bit when he realized William was going to leave him there? (It looked like it to me.) Perhaps happy with himself because he thinks he finally corrupted his future brother-in-law.

They only need a crew to make Teddy look fine. He doesn't need blood to work and doesn't feel pain unless that feature is turned on. Unless some of his underlying structure has been damaged, all flesh-wounds (and pain and anguish) are cosmetic only. It seems Ford over-rode those so Teddy could help the MiB.

So, was it just me, or did Kirk show a bit of confusion/surprise when Liz told him over the phone that she had seen the DNA results that proved he was her father? And, if so, why would he want Agnes? If he doesn't think he's Liz's father, Agnes's blood won't help him. Ah, well. It really doesn't matter...

Lee, as a former cop, probably wouldn't be fooled by a fake-dead production team. I don't think they're fake. Out in the woods with gawd-knows-what? Be sure to keep that phone on so you can be easily spotted by the glow!

Thanks for narrowing it down, Snookums! ;) There may be holes galore (and not the kind made by all the stabbing), but these past two episodes sure have been entertaining! I'm just worried how they can keep it up with so few characters left.

I feel like we're going to get one more twist or reveal. We can't possibly just watch Shelby & faux-Matt and Lee, faux-Lee & faux-Shelby in and out of trouble and all but one being killed for the next 3 episodes (I hope). Especially after this one moved so quickly. Side note: What the hell, faux-Matt! You woke a woman with a pretty intense slice-wound from some actual rest, to drag her down at least two flights of stairs to show her her husband getting it on with what looks like a homeless woman. (How Shelby walked around without seeming to be in any pain, and then easily pulverized her husband is a bit much, though.)

I also noticed this time around she mispronounced a lot more words than normal. They really are leaning on that. Adding to the love for "Black Jeopardy." Well written, somewhat subtle, and had a solid, timely ending. Props.

I feel for everyone who is anxiously waiting for Negan's demise, as from the episode descriptions already spoiled it is nowhere in sight.

I deleted the upcoming planned recording. I don't even want my TIVO to have the data that I recorded it, even if I never watch it.

If I'm estranged from my husband, I'm pretty sure I could think of at least one other place on god's green earth to corner him into a talk other than the place we witnessed a man literally have his intestines removed whilst still alive, Braveheart style! And that's not even counting the witnessing of the live cannibalism of crazy Professor Denis O'Hare and the fact they themselves were seconds away from being murdered the last time they were there! "Hallelujah! Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?"

Oh my god, I am crying at the last number! I don't know if much was given away with the pre-last performance package, but I always fast forward and use my peripheral vision to know when to stop (I know, silly for a show like this), so I went into it could. So funny and unexpected!

As I list the holes in plotting and such, I must admit I do like that they are attempting this. But, boy they could have set this up with at least two less episodes than they did. I'm still thrown off by the (horribly acted) historian a few episodes ago listing the creepy history of the house, which was apparently well-know to similar historians. It didn't fit with the narrative at the time, and even less with this one where no one seems to believe that anything odd happened there to Matt and Shelby, or that anything apparently ever has.

This is their only post, so I'd agree it's fishy.

He's likely the one to survive... I cheered so hard for her (for about 2 seconds)! That is one of the smartest things I have ever heard anyone in the horror genre say. I'm guessing they are already scheduled to "drop by" at different points. Already arranged with agents, production, etc. I also guess there is some sort of problem with the production trucks to live feed, so they have no reason to warn those scheduled to come later. The only thing that seems odd is that there's no way the producer would go long without seeing what's going on, though. I guess that will draw him to the house. I am interested to see how the show now portrays each of the baddies, since what we saw before were the re-enactments. I still can't believe the real people came back, even Lee. None of those reasons are good enough if they really did see what happened to the professor and Cricket murdered like that.

Frank's thread should definitely be subtitled, "Murdering For Friendship." :)

Good lord, that was a beautiful cat.

I am also sad those two were dispatched so easily, but if some ridiculous reason we stay at this house, at least they can return as ghosts/Others. You know, it wouldn't have been too hard for at least Matt or Shelby say that they should stay at the house in case Flora comes back on her own. Would have justified them staying there when not actively looking for her. I am also surprised they haven't pulled out the "cell phones aren't working at all out here for some reason" trope. Weird shit like this, they should at least be recording some of it! Count me in with the hating the stupid, yet seemingly now pointless, reaction of Shelby to Dennis O'Hare. What purpose did that even serve now that he's dead? (Plus, she believed him about 20 minutes later once he took them out to the woods. It was so pointless.)

So, as to dear ol' "dad" saying the fire and her shooting him were just stories from Red-didn't we see burn scars in season 1 when Lizzie was having flashbacks/memories of the fire? Whatever, though. As for the second question, she'd be dead if Nickos hadn't found and helped her. So in that way, if it hadn't been for Nickos, Mr. Kaplan wouldn't be around to work for Red is all.