MatildaMoody

I've never believed the bolded part to be the case. She wrote for one of the best television relationships of all time, Dan and Rosanne Conner. She simply did a terrible job of writing Luke and Lorelai's relationship.

There was really only one thing that Kyle did that could have caused some friction between her and Carlton, and it was so hilarious that I instantly forgave Kyle for it. It was when Kyle invited her over to her house with a few other people. Carlton was telling this boring story that had to do with an animal (her cat maybe?), and Kyle just cut her off to ask if anyone wanted wine. It happened so fast and the look on Carlton's face still has me giggling as I think about it. I mean, I guess it was a faux pas on the part of the hostess, but it was really one of the most organically funny moments I remember from the entire season. I think Carlton came in prepared to hate Kyle, so that moment gave her a bit of momentum, but it was really the only thing that Kyle ever did that could have been construed as rude to her. Carlton chose to take offense at the bee thing and from there it was war. Only Kyle didn't know it.

I feel like this should be clarified. We never saw PK leering. What we saw was Ericka announcing that she wasn't wearing while 4 people sitting opposite from her could and did see. Then, the only person who implied and outright mocked her for doing it on purpose was Eileen Davidson. When PK and Doris did their scripted bit in the kitchen discussing the evening before, they both made a point to say the flash was accidental. When Dorit went to the other women to talk about the "joke" she wanted to play, she made sure to clarify that she knew it was an accident and that's why she thought the "joke" would be funny. Eileen and RInna were the ONLY ones to question whether or not it was on purpose - based on Ericka's alter ego's stage persona.

Bwah hahaha! That never gets old. I am still waiting for a moment to use that line in real life. Unfortunately, no one would want to still my house. I just realized why my DVR almost missed this episode. It has the same title as the first episode from last season. So, it was being listed as a repeat in the cable guide and the DVR was ignoring it.

This is actually a false narrative. Kim never financially supported her family. Her earnings were put into trust and she blew them once she was old enough to take control of them. Big Kathy earned a percentage of Kim's money as her manager, but it was never enough to completely finance the family and their lifestyle. Big Kathy financed the family by marrying wealthy men.

Kyle was the first housewife they approached. The show was built around her and her friends. She is the one who lobbied to get Kim on because she thought it would give her an income and responsibilities. Edited: I am not sure why it is quoting Zoeysmom and not Poptart.

I guess it's not that bad, since I wasn't even a pre-teen yet, but still. Putting that little child's voice with the adult housewife is very jarring.

Yolanda is obviously not a fan since she had all traces of Bella's removed.

I was at the grocery store yesterday and JCM's version of "I saw mommy kissing Santa Claus" was on. Please don't tell me that Teddi is the Mellencamp daughter singing at the end, because that would make me feel extremely old!

I get that this discussion is really about how involved Luke was in Rory's life, butI wanted to point out that Luke was someone that Rory saw almost every day from the time she was a child. If we believe the initial premise, that Lorelai (and therefore Rory) was dependent upon Luke for coffee and most of their meals, Luke would have been a constant presence, whether Rory saw him as a father figure or not. When you factor in Luke as the guy who would agree to fix things around the house as a birthday present to Lorelai, no matter when that started, that includes even more time that Rory would have considered her a part of her just normal Stars Hollow life. I just finished a rewatch of "Teach Me Tonight" and I was struck by the way Luke asked Rory to tutor Jess. He knocked on the door to her room and was granted permission by both Lorelai and Rory without it being an issue. That was long before the writers started trying to retcon a fatherly relationship, but it spoke to the fact that Luke was a constant fixture for both of them. It's funny, I actually came here to comment on just how much I still hate the Jess character and got caught up in the was Luke really a father figure to Rory debate. I know people don't buy the whole "she had chicken pox and would only eat mashed potatoes" argument, but it makes perfect sense to me. Lorelai and Rory had two constants when it came to food, Sookie and Luke. Since the show made it clear that they went to Sookie for special fancy food, their day to day nourishment came from Luke's diner. So, if Rory was sick and only wanted mashed potatoes, it makes sense that Lorelai would not only go to Luke for said mashed potatoes, but that he would also be aware of WHY he was making mashed potatoes specifically for Rory - because Lorelai and the whole town would have made sure he knew. But, back to my original reason: I HATE the Jess character. At first I thought it was because the writers felt the need to dumb Dean down (remember he was a well-read, pop-culturally aware kid from Chicago when we first met him). But, I realized the reason I truly HATE Jess is because of how much of an asshole he was. Here was this kid (granted he had a flake for a mother and a nonexistent dad), who was given an opportunity to start over with a person who truly cared about his well being (Luke). Compare him to someone like Paris whose parents were also nonexistent and how hard she worked to succeed (against all of the morons on the show trying to tell her there was something wrong with her for wanting to be the best at anything she set out to do). Then, there's Jess (who had so much more chemistry with Paris in a single scene than he ever had with Rory throughout his time on the show). Jess was the guy who knew how important Lorelai and the town in general were to Rory, but he couldn't be bothered to meet her halfway on any of that. I found it extremely creepy that he (when doing yard work for Lorelai) decided to go into Rory's room without permission. I also thought it was creepy the way he Shanghaied Rory's sleigh ride (Bracebridge Dinner) to basically tell her that Dean wasn't the right guy for her. In fact, when Rory complained that Jess didn't even know Dean, I screamed at the television, "He doesn't know you either!" He treated Rory as a concept and a prize to win. Then, after all of his meddling in her relationship with Dean, and getting her to date him, he still not only refused to accept the people she cared about (the town, her mom, etc.). Not only that, he spent a lot of time trying to convince her that she didn't need them (creepy isolation territory). And while I get we were supposed love his rebel nature because he had family issues, he was no Pacey Witter. The fact that he couldn't be bothered to explain to the girl he spent a year chasing that he was not doing well in school or that his dad showed up, told me that it wasn't about being in love with Rory. He had a crush on her, but there was very little actual respect for her in that relationship.

I have been trying to follow along here, and am just having a lot of difficulty with what the issue is. She said 99% of the people she asked turned her down. So what? The 1% who said yes said yes in a big way. Why is there a debate about this nameless faceless (for all we know doesn't even exist) 99%? What is it about Bethenny that makes people nit pick her choice of words to the point that the important stuff (all the help and aid she was able to gather get to the people who need it, all the people she was able to get safely to mainland hospitals) gets completely left out and it instead turns into a debate about where she falls on some subjective scale of horrible people? The arguments seem to be: It's great that Bethenny did all that stuff, but I don't like her so I am going to call her out for trying to shame people that she never named. Or, It's great that Bethenny was able to get so many sick people to the medical care they need, but she is awful because she said she was one of the first celebrities on the ground. Why must a caveat be added at all? Bethenny is doing something that most of us can't do whether because of resources or any other reasons. Why debate anything else? Sorry. I stopped posting in the NY threads a long time ago because they were so overwhelmingly negative it affected my ability to simply enjoy the show. I guess this was just a bad time for me to jump in again. Don't mind me. I will see myself out.

I am finishing up "Welcome to the Dollhouse." I am not sure if I missed this before, but the look smug look on Mitchum's face when he is telling Richard what he said to Rory, was perfect. I see why he was cast as Logan's dad. Logan, has worn that exact same smug smirk so many times throughout the show. It's amazing that I never saw why those two were cast as father and son before. It was only a split second, but now I feel like I have to suffer through some of the worst episodes of the show just to note this particular casting choice.

This is one of those things that I noticed about Erika. She only seems to develop "friendships" with those who allow her to be the center of attention. Eileen was worshipful right out of the gate. Rinna pissed her off by beefing with Yolanda and had to work double time to gain more of a friendship with her. And she and Kyle didn't really become friends until after the show in Greece, in which Erika was the center of attention and Kyle just went along with whatever Erika did. What's even weirder about this is that Eileen is supposedly the "closest" to Erika out of all the women, but it was Eileen and Rinna who egged Dorit on with Pantygate. Kyle was the only one to say that Erika might not appreciate Dorit's attempt at humor. It made me wonder if there wasn't a little bit of resentment on Eileen and Rinna's part that they were so gleeful about mocking Erika. Then, there was that weirdness when Erika attacked Eileen simply because she was trying to minimize the full on attack of Dorit about pantygate by showing how small and petty this fight was in comparison to harming one of the kids. Erika didn't even apologize to Eileen until after she confirmed that she was still scheduled to film the soap. I know that all of the women on the show are narcissists, but since Erika shows so little of her actual self, her narcissistic tendencies tend to stand out to me more. It's probably because it's the most genuine part of herself she ever really seems to show.

For me, Logan was always Tristan 2.0, which is why I never got why Rory 1. fell so hard for him, and 2. allowed him to manipulate her so easily. What I never truly understood was the writers' insistence on assassinating perfectly good characters like Dean and Marty to service some notion that Logan was the better guy. I could almost get the Dean thing. Rory was feeling disconnected from everything that she had just accepted as her life in Stars Hollow as she progressed through Yale. So, her wanting to go back to the first guy who truly liked her for who she was and who went out of his way to show that he was in awe of her constantly, made plenty of sense. What didn't actually make sense was Dean. Sure, he was still in love with Rory (or thought he was) when he got married. But, it made no sense for him to get married in the first place. Remember, he had started considering college and was planning to go to a local community college and further his education — because Rory inspired him to do so. Suddenly, he is getting married right out of high school? And then, the guy who believed the "Donna Reed" lifestyle had plenty to offer was willing to cheat on his wife? And then we have Marty, a guy who was mature enough to recognize that he couldn't continue to hang around as friends with someone he had feelings for without it causing more problems, is suddenly pretending he doesn't know Rory and trying to flirt with her at his girlfriend's party? What the hell, writers?

I remember Tamra constantly going to back and forth between Vicki and Simon telling each what the other said. Vicki even told Tamra to leave her out of it several times because she didn't want the blowback from Simon, but felt bad because Tamra was constantly telling her how horrible Simon was. Tamra manipulated Simon and Vicki the same way she manipulated Simon and Ryan so that she looked like the victim caught between two people. She was so good at it that she didn't even realize when she was doing it. I don't remember an apology to Alexis. I remember Andy asking her about it at one point after her baptism and Tamra blowing it off and making a joke about it. So, if she did apologize, good for her. Did she ever apologize to Lizzie for posting her phone number on Facebook? Look, Vicki is no saint, but Tamra set her up to look like an interloper when any and everything that Vicki ever said about Simon was as a direct result of what Tamra told her about their marriage. Vicki thought she was being a protective friend until she just had to keep telling Tamra to leaver her out of it.

I think this is my problem with Tamra. I don't believe she is in anyway sincere in her claims of being a better person. Just the way she handled the interaction with her mother tells me that she is still manipulating people and situations to make herself look like the victim. I think she gives lip service to trying to be a better person and trying to be a Christian because she wants us to stop seeing her in association with her past actions. If Tamra ever apologizes to Alexis for the way she treated her or Gretchen for Naked Wasted, or even Vicki for dragging her into her marriage issues with Simon, or Simon for involving Vicki in their marriage in the first place, I might see her as really trying to repent. But, this is a woman that has wreaked havoc on other people's actual lives in order to stay relevant on this show, and so far she has done nothing to show that she is the least bit sorry for any of it.

I think this is the crux of it for me. I NEVER think about what her kids have done. Her kids simply aren't interesting to me. They weren't on the show very much. When they were on they seemed like kids who weren't interested in the show at all. They were props for Yo to use in furtherance of her story line. It's great that genes, money, and plastic surgery gave them modeling careers, but they didn't need the show for that. Yo would have done all of that without the show. I want to know about Yo when I click on this thread. Her kids, like all reality show kids (IMO), shouldn't have to be tied to their mom's reality show or her behavior on or off the show. I click on this thread because I get excited about some new Yolanda craziness. If I cared about her kids' modeling, I would follow them on social media. Nothing against those who like following the Hadid children, I have just always thought the HW children should be separate from the actual HW's when it comes to discussions on snark threads.

I don't know. Above everything else Luann has always seemed the most pragmatic about the way life just is. This was a very pretty and flattering dress and she knew it was an opportunity to look good, while acknowledging that she did indeed get married. I have tons of opinions about why Lu went whole hog with the marriage, but the reunion dress doesn't really factor into that for me. i think Lu wore the dress because she looked great in it, she wanted to show she was (at the time of filming) still all in on her marriage decision, and she thought it would give her the confidence to get through the reunion. I think the filming of the reunion was the catalyst for the divorce filing (no matter who actually filed). I've given Lu A LOT of side eye and snark/shit over the years. But I have never questioned her thriftyness, her body appropriate style, or her willingness to arm herself in a way that could garner any possible sympathy from the other women. And let's be honest Lu needed the sympathy of these particular women so much more than she needed the audience's. I think she still had hope that she could get the others to stop making her marriage a horrible thing and just accept that it was a done deal. This dress was a cost effective piece of armor. It just happened to be ineffective because the marriage was awful.

This is my unpopular opinion. Paris had much better chemistry with Jess and Logan, than Rory EVER did.

As much as I hate Evelyn, Jackie will always be a worse to me. Jackie is just an absolutely AWFUL human being. She is the definition of a garbage person.

I can't make myself watch the final 15 minutes of this last episode. If I have to hear Tammi flat out lie again about how Jackie is a good person, I am going to scream - Jackie has shown us time and again that she is the exact opposite of a good person. And as much as Jackie is the hateful crazy person, Evelyn is no innocent. I don't fault Evelyn for donating to Takari's gofundme she saw a baby who had been injured and needed help with medical expenses - it wasn't like she was trying to bankroll Takari's life. I even understand Takari volunteering information about what a shitty parent Jackie was (I mean it was pretty much common knowledge before any of the Miami crew joined the show). I do think that by passing Takari's book around the group, Evelyn was pulling her usual "you're out of the circle" BS that she had pulled on numerous "wives" in the Miami shows. But it was seeing the other women take up the mantle of "Jackie is a shit parent" and coming at her for it that I just couldn't sit through. I mean Jackie is a HORRIBLE human being and she deserves to be dragged for it. But, making her estrangement with her daughter a part of, if not the only reason they don't want to be around her (even though I can see it as a justifiable reason to not hang out with someone so awful) seems very disingenuous to me. Shaunie has known Jackie for years, she knows all about how horrible she is, but now suddenly she feels some kind of way? Same goes for Jennifer. None of this happened in a vacuum. They watched Jackie's other daughter talk about the treatment Takari got from their mother based on her weight and darker skin tone. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they actually witnessed a lot of that behavior over the years and just brushed it off as "Jackie is just crazy." So, I find it suspect that it is now all of a sudden a sticking point with them. So, by the time Hazel and Jennifer were talking about addressing their feelings about Jackie as a mother, I was just done. The cringe factor was too strong and my blood pressure was boiling in a way that only Jackie Christie has made my blood boil before. And maybe this is all karma for Jackie. Think of how many times she dug into the other women's personal family issues to find dirt that would alienate them from the group. At least Evelyn didn't have to go looking for dirt on Jackie because Takari volunteered it. But, I really think I reached my breaking point with this episode.

For me, the one Lorelai moment that crystallized everything for me was the Wedding Bell Blues episode. The woman who made Rory pack a bag with extra clothing for their short trip to Yale with the grandparents, couldn't bother to tell Luke that he should bring his suit rather than wear in on the car ride? What really irked me about that was how flippant she and Rory were about the whole thing knowing exactly how Emily and Richard (who had already made their disapproval of Luke known) would treat Luke. She set him up to be alienated and the subject of Emily's snobbery from the beginning and she and Rory just thought it was funny that Luke didn't know to bring extra clothes to hang out with her snooty parents and their snooty friends. So, now here is Luke who already feels like an outsider, being blindsided by Christopher and Lorelai's confession that she had spent a night getting wasted with Chris because his dad died. Of course Luke was going to freak out when Chris plays the father card and tries to claim Rory and Lorelai as his family to which Luke is an interloper. It was horrible for Emily to set Luke up to be humiliated like that, but Lorelai enabled all of that behavior by leaving Luke to feel like an outsider from the very beginning. That stuck with me long after they got back together and got engaged. I always thought that Luke deserved better than Lorelai. So much so that I actually agreed with TJ (of all people) when he said there is always drama with Lorelai and they were both better off not getting back together (this was after Richard's second heart attack and Luke was running errands for Emily). I mean Liz and TJ were horrible people, but they were at least perceptive about certain things, like how Liz was worried that Luke would end up alone like their dad. Anyway, as much as I loved the charm that Lauren Graham brought to the Lorelai character, Wedding Bell Blues, and her ultimatum/temper tantrum/marry me or we are done in a later season soured me on the character. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the show long after both of those incidents, but both always made me roll my eyes at how awful Lorelai could be when it came to people who weren't named Lorelai Gilmore. ETA: I also hated the way Lorelai and Sookie treated Michel after his dog died. It made no sense after all of the support and comfort they provided to Babbette in Cinnamon's Wake.

Gretchen is an ass for getting involved in this. But I think it is pretty freaking rich of Tamra to complain about getting in the business of a mother and daughter, considering how many times she was up Brianna's ass to make Vicki look bad.

It looks like the jacket has an asymmetrical zipper. I love the asymmetrical look as it really camouflages the waistline. You just have to be careful about how far up or down to zip it. Also, I think the angle of the photo has something to do with it too. If it were taken more directly in front rather than downward her boobs wouldn't be front and center in the photo.

Heather's animosity stemmed from the fact that Tamra and Vicki both immediately glommed on to Shannon and actually liked her. The three of them started having fun with each other from that first dinner, and Heather even overheard Tamra saying something about Heather having a stick up her ass. That also led to Heather telling Eddie about the conversations she and Tamra had been having about whether or not to have more kids, proving she was every bit devious as Tamra. Also, Heather knew that Tamra always has to have an enemy. If Vicki hadn't told Tamra that she would lose if she went against Heather, Tamra would have tried her hand at turning the whole cast against Heather. Heather had to have known that and went about making Shannon the focus of the animosity. The problem was that it backfired on both Heather and Tamra.