S16.E15: Finale

[Beezella]

23 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

I was really uncomfortable with them bringing back Phoebe Kochis to perform. It seemed somewhat exploitative to me. Or maybe I'm just heartless.

I struggled with a similar feeling, except Phoebe looked so very happy and excited, and did a lovely job.

A couple final thoughts: Thanks to the show for never putting a wig on Madison.

I am always so impressed with these very young people being so gracious and composed when they are  told they didn't win, live on national TV. Poor Sophie, the first to go.

[realdancemom]

20 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Yes to both of these things! I always hated the “choreograph in a group” round because it was clearly just to create drama. I HATE when skill-based shows force contestants to do crap that has nothing to do with the  actual competition. Dancing and choreographing are two vastly different skills. Most people are not outstanding at both. I know lots of dancers who have great technique and performance skills but are crap at choreographing. I’ve also known some choreographers who are mediocre dancers but very creative and talented choreographers.

But on top of all that, this is a dance performance competition. Each week the dancers are given a piece to learn and perform, so that’s what they should be tested on as part of the audition/elimination process. Forcing them to choreograph in a group as part of that process is stupid because it’s not part of the actual competition. To me, asking them to choreograph (in a group, no less) as part of the audition/academy process is as pointless as asking them all to juggle chainsaws or make a perfect risotto.

ITA.  I hated the choreograph in a group.  Like you mentioned, someone could be a good dancer and not know how to choreograph.  It would be like asking AI or Voice contestants to write a song.

And they definitely wanted to create drama.  The contestants are tired and then they're forced to stay up all night.  So everyone is going to be more cranky or emotional than usual.  Maybe, you're put in a group where somebody is really bossy or just rubs you the wrong way.  You might get lucky and have somebody that is really good at choreography but then maybe that person only knows how to choreograph in their genre.  So I'm definitely glad they got rid of it.

19 hours ago, Mason said:

SYTYCD needs to rediscover the sense of celebration it had in spades in earlier seasons. Even National Dance Day seemed like an afterthought.

That is weird that they changed the date for National Dance Day.  Plus, I think they picked a date that was after the finale date.  I'm pretty sure the show was on during the original NDD date of July 27.

Did anybody else notice that after Gino danced, the camera would show Stephanie/Ezra's family?  The caption even stated that it was Gino's family and friends. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

I hated the choreograph in a group.  Like you mentioned, someone could be a good dancer and not know how to choreograph.  It would be like asking AI or Voice contestants to write a song.

I quit watching AI many seasons ago so I don’t know if they’ve changed this, but they used to force the contestants to do a group number and come up with choreography (obviously not on the same level as SYTYCD but still) during the audition process too, which I absolutely loathed because the actual competition is solo singing.

I don’t understand why these shows insist on forcing the contestants to do things during the audition process that aren’t part of the competition process. It’s obviously all in the hopes of creating conflict (as opposed to trying to select the best contestants). 

[realdancemom]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I quit watching AI many seasons ago so I don’t know if they’ve changed this, but they used to force the contestants to do a group number and come up with choreography (obviously not on the same level as SYTYCD but still) during the audition process too, which I absolutely loathed because the actual competition is solo singing.

I don’t understand why these shows insist on forcing the contestants to do things during the audition process that aren’t part of the competition process. It’s obviously all in the hopes of creating conflict (as opposed to trying to select the best contestants). 

I also don't watch AI any more.  That's awful if they were supposed to come up with choreography.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

I also don't watch AI any more.  That's awful if they were supposed to come up with choreography.

It was completely up to each group so some of the choreography was as simple as everyone standing in a line and doing step touch for the entire song, but as someone who had to recruit guys for show choir I know that even something that easy can be impossible for some people, and it's so unnecessary to add that extra level of stress to competition that is supposed to be for singing (NOT dancing).

The group ground on AI was an obvious ploy to cause drama. One season I specifically remember they were put into their groups at midnight and the group performances were scheduled to begin at 8am the next day. A lot of the groups stay up all night choreographing and rehearsing so they are exhausted and sleep deprived by the time they get in front of the judges.

The group choreography round on SYTYCD is for drama too. I think it's equally as stressful as the AI group round but for slightly different reasons. I still hate it though. Unless they're going to include choreography as part of the entire competition (which THEY SHOULD NOT), then the choreography round is pointless to me. It's just something the show does because they hope people will fight and cry and have epic meltdowns.

Ugh, apparently AI still does the group round. This is from the most recent season:

For comparison, this is the group round from S3 of AI:

[luvthepros]

5 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Did anybody else notice that after Gino danced, the camera would show Stephanie/Ezra's family?  The caption even stated that it was Gino's family and friends. 

Yes, I noticed that. I don't understand why Gino's family wasn't shown.

[realdancemom]

1 minute ago, luvthepros said:

Yes, I noticed that. I don't understand why Gino's family wasn't shown.

I wonder if the camera guys/editors got mixed up.  In that case, that's a bad mistake that should have been caught.

[LexieLily]

After so many seasons of American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, and So You Think You Can Dance, producers should know by now that the way they structure their results finales aren't working. In a two hour show the winner should have time to speak and react to their win. Bailey never spoke before he was hugged by Mariah and then the show ended with the rest of the top ten hugging him.

[crowceilidh]

To be fair, they gave all of them the chance to speak about their experiences and "what winning would mean to them", didn't they?  I think that was meant to take the place of speaking in reaction to the win (which would be my preference in their shoes too).  I think they did that because there used to be huge complaints about how the #2 person was treated, because once you know who's won, it's hard to give that second person space to talk and reminisce.  So then they started doing something that punctuated everyone's journey in the top 4 before the announcement.  Also, have they always let the top 4 pick their own favourite dance?  (Obvs quite structured, but still I enjoyed their picks).

[Samwise979]

I got spoiled that bailey won (Yay!!) and then had no desire to watch the episode. I watched the first dance sort of (I was on my phone for most of it) then I fast forwarded the second dance (Madison) and then the third dance started and I was like, no that's enough.  I turned it off and deleted it. 

I honestly don't know if I'll watch next season. I would need less auditions episodes, a top 20 instead of a top 10 and more dancing episodes. 

[luvthepros]

4 hours ago, crowceilidh said:

...., have they always let the top 4 pick their own favourite dance?  (Obvs quite structured, but still I enjoyed their picks).

I don't know about "always", but yes, the Top 4 has had the opportunity to pick their favorite dance to perform. The past few seasons, at least, has had this addition to the finale show.

[Whimsy]

On 9/19/2019 at 2:28 PM, Kaiju Ballet said:

So true. I think the first time I ever saw or heard of Lady Gaga was when she performed on SYTYCD...way back in 2008. There have also been songs that I may have known, but never fully appreciated until it was used for a moving performance.

Aside from Lady Gaga, the show used to feature guest dance performances, which also expanded my enjoyment of dance. That being said, I was really uncomfortable with them bringing back Phoebe Kochis to perform. It seemed somewhat exploitative to me. Or maybe I'm just heartless.

I am so glad they dispensed with the forcing dancers to choreograph a piece overnight in small groups, and then perform the next day. Lex stood out to me too from the time of his audition, cemented by the time in the academy.

I agree with wanting a montage of academy dancers, and also if they would bring back putting the top 20 (heh!) in the opening titles?

And while I'm making a wishlist, I'd like them to show the complete auditions of all the finalists. I don't think they showed Benjamin Castro's complete audition, and even though he stood out to me, I remembered thinking there was no chance he was going to make it.

I used to download SO MANY songs from this show.  I don't anymore.  Haven't for quite some time, but I am seriously considering getting that Amen song. That is the only performance that gave me chills this season.  I loved it. 

On 9/20/2019 at 2:10 PM, Beezella said:

I struggled with a similar feeling, except Phoebe looked so very happy and excited, and did a lovely job.

A couple final thoughts: Thanks to the show for never putting a wig on Madison.

I am always so impressed with these very young people being so gracious and composed when they are  told they didn't win, live on national TV. Poor Sophie, the first to go.

I totally agreed that bringing Phoebe back felt like a manipulation, and not in a good way.  But, I also agree that she looked so happy and excited so for her I pushed away the uncomfortable feeling. 

[luvthepros]

4 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I used to download SO MANY songs from this show.  I don't anymore.  Haven't for quite some time, but I am seriously considering getting that Amen song. That is the only performance that gave me chills this season.  I loved it. 

I totally agreed that bringing Phoebe back felt like a manipulation, and not in a good way.  But, I also agree that she looked so happy and excited so for her I pushed away the uncomfortable feeling. 

Phoebe was glowing and her parents looked so proud of her. All I could do was smile while watching her perform.

[Tikichick]

Finally managed to watch the finale.  I am satisfied with the results, although my heart really did ache for Gino.  I got the impression he was hoping, but prepared for second.  He seemed shellshocked by third.

First time I've felt that every single finale number was actually performed better than in competition.  Don't know if it's the compacted season, the fact that it really seemed they had much less rehearsal time this year, the fact that this year they didn't compete live, or this group really needed the pressure off to shine.  

I'm really hopeful the audition promos and Nigel's comments do mean they're coming back.  I used to love academy week episodes, because you got to see what some of the dancers really did or did not bring to the stage.  Audition episodes this season were horrendous, they went on week, after week, after week, after week, after week -- yet we saw very little auditions.  A top 20 would really help us actually see the "journey". 

Surely they can afford more than 2 rehearsal rooms if the show continues?  Watching carefully this year it sure looked like everyone had to share just the 2 rooms.  No bueno. 

[Rahul]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:57 AM, Whimsy said:

I used to download SO MANY songs from this show.  I don't anymore.  Haven't for quite some time, but I am seriously considering getting that Amen song. That is the only performance that gave me chills this season.  I loved it. 

I totally agreed that bringing Phoebe back felt like a manipulation, and not in a good way.  But, I also agree that she looked so happy and excited so for her I pushed away the uncomfortable feeling. 

I was wondering why the music choices were so utterly atrocious this season, and came to the conclusion that it had to with severe budget cuts. Songs--especially popular ones--cost money to license for use. It seems SYTYCD dipped heavily into very old songs now in the public domain which are free from copyright and usage restrictions. I'm sure the choreographers were not too thrilled when they were given their limited catalog from which they could work.

[Tikichick]

15 minutes ago, Rahul said:

I was wondering why the music choices were so utterly atrocious this season, and came to the conclusion that it had to with severe budget cuts. Songs--especially popular ones--cost money to license for use. It seems SYTYCD dipped heavily into very old songs now in the public domain which are free from copyright and usage restrictions. I'm sure the choreographers were not too thrilled when they were given their limited catalog from which they could work.

Perhaps it also allowed choreographers (Ray Leeper) to dust off some golden oldies as far as choreography goes?  Do we really think that You Can Leave Your Hat On and One of My Kind were entirely new routines? 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Tikichick

[Ilovepie]

I finally got around to watching this. I am so glad Bailey won! I don't believe for one second though that he isn't well trained in many styles besides being a B-boy - he was just too good. Minor quibble but I really wish they would let people list all the styles they have trained in and not just label them as one style only. I know a lot of them have one preference, but how exactly does it affect the show if they say they have cross trained in ballet, jazz, contemporary, etc.? Is it because then the judges can't lose their minds over a B-boy killing a contemporary routine? Or a ballroom dancer doing hip hop? Who cares if it's good!

I thought the top 4 were pretty good, but I guarantee I won't remember a single routine from this season four weeks from now. Maybe the INXS routine, but only because I know that song. I guess after this many seasons it all starts to look the same, although I still like to watch Salvic and Genessy's Housework routine from last year so......maybe they need to shake up the choreographers again????

I am with everyone saying to just skip the auditions and go straight to the Academy. Especially after this year where the auditions were already a live show in LA. I really hated them this way. I always enjoy the Academy and would miss it. I think they could cut the endless auditions but show them in conjunction with contestants stories at Academy week. Once a top 20 is chosen, they should just get to it.

I also wish they would bring back the "pick your dance from the bag" as well just to even the playing field a little and have it feel less like producer manipulation depending on who does what style of dance.

[crossover]

On 9/19/2019 at 6:25 PM, Mason said:

SYTYCD needs to rediscover the sense of celebration it had in spades in earlier seasons. 

Of course, the newness has fallen off.  But, most of the dancers are too polished now.  A lot of the thrill of SYTYCD was watching great dancers in a style struggle in another.  Now, if you’re not polished enough coming into the competition, the choreographer just creates around you.

Speaking of choreography, I saw where WOD won the emmy.  I think one reason they kept bringing SYTYCD back was the emmys.  If they're going to treat WOD and SYTYCD the same, WOD will always win.  Those groups bring in routines that they’ve had loads of time to tweak the choreography and performance.  On SYTYCD, the choreographers have the concept coming in but oftentimes, they have to adjust.  And of course, the dancers just don’t have the time to perfect the movements, plus, they maybe out of their element.  

In either case, it was fun.

[realdancemom]

6 minutes ago, crossover said:

Of course, the newness has fallen off.  But, most of the dancers are too polished now.  A lot of the thrill of SYTYCD was watching great dancers in a style struggle in another.  Now, if you’re not polished enough coming into the competition, the choreographer just creates around you.

Speaking of choreography, I saw where WOD won the emmy.  I think one reason they kept bringing SYTYCD back was the emmys.  If they're going to treat WOD and SYTYCD the same, WOD will always win.  Those groups bring in routines that they’ve had loads of time to tweak the choreography and performance.  On SYTYCD, the choreographers have the concept coming in but oftentimes, they have to adjust.  And of course, the dancers just don’t have the time to perfect the movements, plus, they maybe out of their element.  

In either case, it was fun.

Just a few days ago, I was thinking of WOD winning the choreography Emmy and what that would mean for SYTYCD.  I think SYTYCD did win other Emmys though like for lighting (too lazy to Google).  Even though I'm mostly watching the show out of habit, I still watch it and prefer it over WOD.  So I hope losing out on choreography Emmys doesn't mean the end of the show.

[displayname]

1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

So I hope losing out on choreography Emmys doesn't mean the end of the show.

The quality of choreography this season was great, so here's hoping. The choreography is for two different purposes, too. SYTYCD gives more opportunity to explore the depth of music.

I don't really follow WOD, whom did they gift an Emmy to? I doubt they'd give one to the contestants/teams.

[realdancemom]

23 minutes ago, displayname said:

The quality of choreography this season was great, so here's hoping. The choreography is for two different purposes, too. SYTYCD gives more opportunity to explore the depth of music.

I don't really follow WOD, whom did they gift an Emmy to? I doubt they'd give one to the contestants/teams.

It was Tessandra Chavez who choreographed for SYTYCD before.  She also won an Emmy for DWTS on a piece with Derek and Julianne.  All three of them choreographed that piece, Elastic Heart.

Do you remember Zack Everhart from Season 11?  He was the tapper during Ricky Ubeda's season.  He formed a contemporary group for WOD and Tessandra choreographed for them.  He and one of the girls was actually a duet at last year's WOD.  They came back as part of this group.

I thought Travis had a good chance of winning again.

[displayname]

16 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

It was Tessandra Chavez who choreographed for SYTYCD before.  She also won an Emmy for DWTS on a piece with Derek and Julianne.  All three of them choreographed that piece, Elastic Heart.

Do you remember Zack Everhart from Season 11?  He was the tapper during Ricky Ubeda's season.  He formed a contemporary group for WOD and Tessandra choreographed for them.  He and one of the girls was actually a duet at last year's WOD.  They came back as part of this group.

I thought Travis had a good chance of winning again.

I remember him. I did watch bits of WOD this season too (The Kings won I think?), but I'm highly unimpressed a lot of these dances. Lots of flash, not much substance (again, different purpose). Watching these people again, wonder why The Kings didn't win the Emmy, then.

Edited October 8, 2019 by displayname

[realdancemom]

13 minutes ago, displayname said:

I remember him. I did watch bits of WOD this season too (The Kings won I think?), but I'm highly unimpressed a lot of these dances. Lots of flash, not much substance (again, different purpose). Watching these people again, wonder why The Kings didn't win the Emmy, then.

The Kings did win and I'm glad they did.  If somebody likes Classical training, they're not the best at that.  I don't think they have formal training so you'll see bent legs, lazy feet, etc.  However, they did have outstanding tricks and were different.  I think the WOD judges like tricks.  I think Derek is the judge that appreciates technique the most.

[displayname]

2 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

The Kings did win and I'm glad they did. 

Yep, they were the only ones (outside of the incredibly talented Briar Nolet) that I liked watching, and as I've said here, classical technique isn't the only technique for me, so I loved them.

[realdancemom]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

Yep, they were the only ones (outside of the incredibly talented Briar Nolet) that I liked watching, and as I've said here, classical technique isn't the only technique for me, so I loved them.

Yes, we agreed before on how classical technique isn't the only technique.  Plus, they were great performers too.