Henry: The Prestige-Drama Useless Little Brother

[MisterBluxom]

If the show runners believe that Keidrich Sellati (the actor who plays Henry) is a much weaker actor than Holly Taylor (who plays Paige), then they may have decided to permanently relegate Henry to a minor role. But I don't see him as a weak actor. If anything, I would venture a guess that he is at least as talented as Holly Taylor and if that's the case, then maybe the show runners have just been waiting for him to get a little older before they made a transition from Paige playing a major role to Henry playing a major role instead. Wouldn't that be fun?

I'd be delighted if Henry somehow became a lead character for the rest of this show's run while Paige just disappeared into the woodwork. I think it would be a very interesting development.

[paulvdb]

There are restrictions on how much child actors can work. They can work more hours as they get older, so it's not surprising that Paige has been getting more screen time than Henry.

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, paulvdb said:

 

There are restrictions on how much child actors can work. They can work more hours as they get older, so it's not surprising that Paige has been getting more screen time than Henry.

 

Holly Taylor has been underaged for most of the run of the show. KS isn't being used less because he can't act or because he can't work long enough to have a big part (Melissa Gilbert got far more screentime than Paige when she was underaged). Paige is the focus because they always knew the older kid would be brought into the secret first and that forced her to have a bigger part especially after she knew. Since Henry's not in on the secret there's less reason for him to get scenes. Now they want him to be part of the main story so we're going to see him more.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Let me run something by you all.  Does anyone think it's possible that Henry has already been contacted by the Center and is on the road to become a second-generation illegal? 

My opinion is that there's zero percent of this. Not only do we have the story where the Centre learned from Jared that they should not do it this way, and Philip and Elizabeth bringing Paige along in ways the Centre did not with Jared, but dramatically speaking that would be taking the biggest source of drama on the show and detonating it where the audience can't see it. It means Henry's having this huge dramatic thing happening with zero evidence of it onscreen--which in itself is also unrealistic. He's treating his parents exactly the way a normal kid would. 

The show gets all its biggest stuff from personal interactions, not plot twists like Henry or Stan knowing things all along. That gets them nowhere, really. Henry turning back around as Philip and Elizabeth close themselves in a room with Paige as if he's starting to question if that's normal is huge.

[Umbelina]

I've wondered at times, but I agree with sistermagie on this. 

I do think Henry knows much more than he's letting on though.  Kids know.  There have been too many raised voices, too many weird interactions between the parental unit and his sister, too many lame excuses to be gone at all hours, or for days.  He may not know specifics, but he knows something is up. 

Aside from that, Phil and Liz have complied with recruiting the first child, so Center, though they may doubt them on many other things, have no real reason to doubt that they won't recruit/groom Henry as well, when ordered. 

Except for Philip that is, I don't think Center trusts Philip anymore.

[Sarah 103]

23 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I do think Henry knows much more than he's letting on though.  Kids know.  There have been too many raised voices, too many weird interactions between the parental unit and his sister, too many lame excuses to be gone at all hours, or for days.  He may not know specifics, but he knows something is up.

I agree. He knows something is off/wrong, but can't quite put his finger on it. He is not the type to ask questions. Henry is more likely to go digging on his own, if he wanted to know the truth. 

[Umbelina]

45 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I agree. He knows something is off/wrong, but can't quite put his finger on it. He is not the type to ask questions. Henry is more likely to go digging on his own, if he wanted to know the truth. 

True, he may have already opened the fuse box in the basement, or pulled the dryer out a few feet.  He sure managed to make himself a hidey hole in the wood floor of his room.  No one really spends that much time doing laundry, or in their basement.

How thick are the walls in that place anyway?  All those raised voices and a kid doesn't listen or look?  It's just hard for me to buy.

[curbcrusher]

On 4/13/2017 at 3:43 PM, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Henry didn't care about school but suddenly started doing well in math. 

I don't think Henry suddenly started doing well in math. There is something he said in his little sit down with Stan this last episode that struck a chord with me. I don't remember the exact wording, but Henry was referring to Paige getting more attention because she was always studying or something like that. It reminded me of a situation a cousin of mine used to complain about with his kids. He was convinced that his son was a lazy, good for nothing bum because all through high school the kid didn't "work hard," and just wanted to play video games,  while the daughter was constantly studying and "working hard" to get good grades. Since his son's grades were actually decent, I suggested that maybe did didn't need to "work hard" to do well while the daughter needed to put a log of effort into trying to keep up with her older brother.  The son is now a Doctoral EE candidate.

What ever this dialog was, that was the impression that I got from Henry. In this case, a teacher noticed that Henry was basically bored, and with the challenge of higher math has got him putting in a bit more effort. But he sees his sister getting more attention because she is working harder and is not impressed. 

Not sure how this all plays into whatever plot is supposed to be going on with Henry, but it got filed in my "hmm is this the dynamic that 's playing out" file in my mind.

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, curbcrusher said:

I don't think Henry suddenly started doing well in math. There is something he said in his little sit down with Stan this last episode that struck a chord with me. I don't remember the exact wording, but Henry was referring to Paige getting more attention because she was always studying or something like that.

Yes, the teacher said that Henry had been doing fine in the class before--he didn't suddenly get good at it after being bad, it's more like he suddenly got *great* at it after being competent. Iirc, what Henry said to Stan was that his parents assumed any teacher calling meant Henry had "screwed up again." What he said to his parents was that they surprised that he was doing well because Paige is the smart one who worked all the time. So it was his parents who got the "you like Paige more than me" stuff.

So yes, I think Henry was totally describing this dynamic, that Paige worked hard all the time and therefore his parents thought he was stupid. His parents have mentioned getting on him about studying for tests and he had a tutor in Spanish, they're usually on him about playing too many video games or not doing chores, but Philip also referred to him as a good student. His parents are happy that he's putting in effort at school; Henry has misunderstood this as their thinking he was stupid--and ironically continue to emphasize his laziness by claiming the class is "easy" - iow, telling them that he's *not* working hard. Philip cracks a joke about thinking "hard work" was the key to success and Paige morosely agreed.

So I think we can take this as explicit canon--Paige works hard because she wants to be "responsible" and getting good grades is part of that. Henry does what he likes and so is a good but not straight-A student, but is exceptionally good when something interests him. The teacher doesn't seem to have thought Henry was bored. He just thinks he's suddenly gotten more interested.

Of course, while Henry is right that his parents see him often being a goof--off, he's to think Paige gets more attention because of her hard work or her grades. Paige might have still gotten praise for being responsible, but she gets more attention because she's dangerous and needs to be watched. Henry's wrong conclusion makes perfect sense given what he's seeing.

[TheBride]

I get the feeling that Henry is the KGB pick and he has silently been recruited. He's close to Stan...perfect for saying he wants to be an FBI agent, but the KGB wants to make him a sleeper. Good at math....smart kid. 

[TheBride]

On 4/13/2017 at 3:43 PM, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Let me run something by you all.  Does anyone think it's possible that Henry has already been contacted by the Center and is on the road to become a second-generation illegal? 

That absolutely is a possibility. Only the KGB would recruit a kid that young. The FBI starts at college grad age. I'm almost sure he's been recruited and also his "friend" Chris. The KGB had to get the kids away from their parents based on what happened to the first experimental youth recruits--where the kid went bonkers and shot his family dead.

[SunnyBeBe]

I would be super shocked if Henry was contacted by the KGB without P & E knowing it.  Having him unsupervised with that kind of information would put P & E at great risk, imo.   I hope that Henry remains without any knowledge of anything regarding his family and is able to escape with his life in tact after his parents and sister either self destruct or disappear.  I guess it's possible, that P & E will remain in the USA through their old age, but, I wouldn't count on it. 

[Umbelina]

I think it's certainly possible, but not likely.

Claudia's back in charge, and she knew about the other recruiting operation.  She said she opposed it but was overruled.

We have to remember, things are getting progressively worse in the Soviet Union know, they are being sloppy, desperate. 

[Tetraneutron]

On 2017-02-25 at 10:04 PM, Sarah 103 said:

This is part of my big (somewhat unsupported) theory about Henry. He knows more than people realize and give him credit for. I like the idea what while Paige asked/had to be told, Henry will figure it out on his own, but will not say anything. Philip and Elizabeth won't even realize that he figured it out on his own until he tells them that he knows the truth. 

That's revisionist history. Paige didn't figure out that her parents were soviet spies but she figured out something was going on. That whole arc was about that she was unusually smart and perceptive, to realize that her parents had some huge lie. This goes back to the first season where she found that safe house and went there on her own. 

I don't think they'll write Henry as guessing it out of nowhere. I think if he does find out he'll stumble on some evidence. Or the writers will go on another direction and P and E will tell him. 

Either way I don't understand why the audience here insists on seeing Paige and some bratty teenage idiot obsessed with shopping. That's not at all how she's been written. 

[Sarah 103]

8 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

That's revisionist history. Paige didn't figure out that her parents were soviet spies but she figured out something was going on. That whole arc was about that she was unusually smart and perceptive, to realize that her parents had some huge lie. This goes back to the first season where she found that safe house and went there on her own

What I meant was that Paige suspected something was up, but had to ask her parents what exactly that was. When and if Henry starts to suspect that something is up, he will investigate and do more digging on his own. Unlike Paige, he won't confront his parents until he knows the truth. 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

What I meant was that Paige suspected something was up, but had to ask her parents what exactly that was. When and if Henry starts to suspect that something is up, he will investigate and do more digging on his own. Unlike Paige, he won't confront his parents until he knows the truth. 

But unless he stumbles upon something in some way that's unusual, I don't see how to do this realistically. Paige paid attention to everything that the kids can see about the parents and came pretty close to the truth. She didn't guess spies, but she understood that there was some thing they were doing etc. It was almost artificial that she didn't include "Russian spies" on her list of far-out possibilities because it fit right in. For Henry to figure out Soviet spies on his own seems a little cartoony, like the KGB is no match for this kid detective. I mean, there are things in the house that could point him in the right direction, most of which are well hidden. Something like him finding the hidden radio in the bedroom that plays the numbers station...I guess he could hear that and ask a teacher or something what that sort of thing could mean, saying he saw it in a movie or something. That sort of thing would work.

But if it's just a case of Henry being in Paige's place I don't see how he would do better than she did. Especially since up until now he doesn't seem to have the interest Paige did. He's been shown noticing their thing with Paige now, but most of his attention is on stuff that he likes and often out of the house. So far he's not investigating anything and thinks he's the one with the secret, it seems.

[Sarah 103]

At this point, I like the idea of Henry not investigating/looking into it and being completely blindsided, shocked, surprised and what not by the big reveal when he finds out who and what his parents really are. 

[RazzleberryPie]

On 5/2/2017 at 7:01 PM, TheBride said:

I get the feeling that Henry is the KGB pick and he has silently been recruited. He's close to Stan...perfect for saying he wants to be an FBI agent, but the KGB wants to make him a sleeper. Good at math....smart kid. 

Anyone with a lick of sense can see that Henry is a better pick for future KGB than Paige. Henry is stealth. Always has been. He can sneak in and out of high ranking FBI agents homes to play video games, and it took how long for anyone to pick up? He manages to obtain pics of the neighbor in a bikini and stinky cologne, and it takes months for anybody to figure it out, and then they wonder where he got this stuff.  He's the one with enough sense to avert Paige from the creepy guy who picked them up hitchhiking. He's close to Stan, he blends and hides in shadows, and stays completely off radar while they're worrying about Paige. Henry's like that stereotypical preacher's kid or cop's kid, who is sneaking out every night tearing up the town, but his parent has no clue and thinks he's a perfect angel. If this isn't what the writers have been planning with Henry, they're missing an amazing opportunity.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

He can sneak in and out of high ranking FBI agents homes to play video games, and it took how long for anyone to pick up?

That wasn't Stan's house, it was the neighbors' who were on vacation.

But I agree with the basic principle of the post!

[RazzleberryPie]

On 5/15/2017 at 3:05 PM, sistermagpie said:

That wasn't Stan's house, it was the neighbors' who were on vacation.

But I agree with the basic principle of the post!

You're right! Henry is still far more stealth and less emotional than Paige. He's the one I'd trust as a spy.

[Nash]

It's an obvious comment but it's all to play for with Henry. He has the skill set to be a potential agent or a happy go lucky kid. I have an image of him being awol at Doug's at the very moment when the KGB performs a crash extraction of the rest of the Jennings - their deaths faked, he is seen as an orphan and adopted by Stan. He grows up to join the FBI and helps break the next wave of illegals.

I don't think he knows yet about P&E but he isn't stupid. I loved being around one of my uncles as a teenager, he taught me a bit of basic electrics and some common sense that stuck more than some of what my own Dad tried to tell me. Try this - Henry asks Stan about being an FBI agent and Stan happily talks - not operational details but how he asks questions, how he reads body language - simply how he spots the bad guys and breaks alibis. Henry tries it out at home. What if - messing about - he asks P or E "have you ever killed anyone?" He thinks it's a silly question but the reaction could be interesting - P&E are trained to resist interrogation but that could blindside them. Awkward moments ensue....

On a period note, I'm surprised he's not playing D&D.....perhaps that's what he does at Dougs.

[Erin9]

Watching the premiere, I thought it was amusing that of all sports Henry is interested in, it’s ice hockey. I consider that more Russian than American. Not baseball, football or basketball which are more quintessentially American, but ice hockey. Surely that wasn’t an accident by the writers. Not that I think it means Henry knows anything; I just think it’s interesting what he gravitated to. 

With him not living at home, it seems like we’ll see him less than we already do, but I hope we get something to do with him. At the very least a reaction that his parents are Soviet spies. Seems like a huge mistake to just completely ignore the other kid as this wraps up. 

[Umbelina]

Well, remember Philip loved hockey, and they even played a version of it in the driveway.

What could anyone say, "don't play the Russian game son, soon you'll be undercover, so stick to baseball."  ;)

[Erin9]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, remember Philip loved hockey, and they even played a version of it in the driveway.

What could anyone say, "don't play the Russian game son, soon you'll be undercover, so stick to baseball."  ;)

I had forgotten Philip liked hockey. How Russian of him. But not overtly. It wouldn’t have caused anyone to look twice at him. 

Still- they chose to have Henry play hockey. Could have chosen any sport. I just kind of like that they picked that one. We all talk about how American Henry is. And he is. But he still gravitated towards a sport that is way more popular in Russia. Maybe partly because his dad liked it, but bottom line: he chose hockey. That’s kinda cool. 

[Loandbehold]

13 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Watching the premiere, I thought it was amusing that of all sports Henry is interested in, it’s ice hockey. I consider that more Russian than American. Not baseball, football or basketball which are more quintessentially American, but ice hockey. Surely that wasn’t an accident by the writers. Not that I think it means Henry knows anything; I just think it’s interesting what he gravitated to.

 

11 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Well, remember Philip loved hockey, and they even played a version of it in the driveway.

What could anyone say, "don't play the Russian game son, soon you'll be undercover, so stick to baseball."  ;)

The other thing is that the show began in 1981. One year after the Olympics where the USA upset the USSR. Hockey received a boost in popularity after that.

[Umbelina]

5 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I had forgotten Philip liked hockey. How Russian of him. But not overtly. It wouldn’t have caused anyone to look twice at him. 

Still- they chose to have Henry play hockey. Could have chosen any sport. I just kind of like that they picked that one. We all talk about how American Henry is. And he is. But he still gravitated towards a sport that is way more popular in Russia. Maybe partly because his dad liked it, but bottom line: he chose hockey. That’s kinda cool. 

I loved Hockey about that same time and before.  We had a fabulous team in my state then, semi pro.  I loved it, and my boyfriend's younger brother played it.  This was in ultra conservative Utah too.

Also, remember the Miracle on Ice happened in 1980.  Hockey became much more popular here after that.  ;)  It was a HUGE deal. 

@Loandbehold  Ha! Posting at the same time, I was looking for this video.  Damn, that was a great game!

Edited March 31, 2018 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

Yeah, I think Henry and Philip are even playing hockey in the driveway in the pilot. Henry plays with his parents in S4. We know that Henry's been playing on a team since S1 and Philip himself talked about playing as an adult. So it's definitely something they've always had in common, though both play other sports too.

[Erin9]

True. I have no doubt the Miracle on Ice boosted hockey here.  I wouldn’t personally know. Too young. 

But- if the writers really wanted to emphasize Henry’s Americanism, I still think they’d have chosen a sport more associated with classic America. 

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

But- if the writers really wanted to emphasize Henry’s Americanism, I still think they’d have chosen a sport more associated with classic America. 

When Gabriel came back he asked Philip if Henry was still playing hockey and Philip said he was more into baseball these days--seemed like it was definitely intended to be a little USSR vs. USA thing.

But yes, I think the hockey thing was very intentional. It's not only a quintessential Russian sport (while also being totally normal in the US) but it's another one of those times where Henry's mirroring Philip by choice. This makes me remember also, actually, that convo that Paige and Matthew have when watching (really not watching) the superbowl. Matthew says he's not really into sports and then admits that he doesn't like watching them because as a kid he watched them with his dad and it seems that now they just remind him of that and it makes him sad. Not to make too much of it, but I think it's a little reminder that Philip and Henry's relationship is better since hockey's remained something that Henry loves.

Maybe after his parents are unmasked he'll hate it, of course.

[sistermagpie]

Quote

 

Erin9:

The ONE thing I’m getting out of all this talk about money between Henry and Philip is how obviously interested in making a lot of it Henry is. Being elite interests him. That seems like his big passion. Doing well, being with the top 1%. Not people. (Not that he is uncaring.) Not causes. Wanting to do well is good, but it also sounds a bit cold in the context of his parents beliefs and life motivations. His big motivation is boarding school. Being there and staying there. 

 

 

I took this from the Philip thread but thought I'd answer it here because I keep thinking about it. It was suggested that it was surprising that Philip wasn't so proud of Henry's actions about the tuition that it didn't make any feelings of inadequacy in himself unimportant. First I thought it was just a case of how the things we're sensitive about take precedence. But I think it's also more than that.

Like I said in the ep thread, I think the other part of the issue is that ambition is not something Philip and Henry relate to the same way. Elizabeth and Philip are in some ways opposites in that Elizabeth needs her child to be exactly like her, with negative side effects. Philip has always been the parent who wants the kid to be who they are, but that has its own negative side effects if the kid is very different. (This also causes problems with the "other" kid--Elizabeth can't talk to Henry at all; Philip is kind of repulsed by Paige.)

So with Henry I think when people expect people to react more positively to all his plans for school it's based on the assumption that what Henry is doing is something that would make any parent proud. And when I say proud I mean *really* proud--a rush of emotion that's instinctual and uncontrolled. But that actually depends on the parent holding certain values. It means that Henry has accidentally done something that reveals he has the qualities his father really really admires. Philip likes St. Edward's because Henry likes it, but when the idea was presented to him he didn't like it at all. He didn't understand why you'd want to go there. He doesn't see wanting to go to a prep school like that as a great sign of character or whatever.

The few times Philip has seemed to have that kind of emotion in reaction to something someone does it's more about kindness, often on a small scale. Like when Martha says she wants to give love to a child who has none or when Kimmy prays for Jim. Not that that seems to be the only thing he admires--he's liked other qualities. But never anything in this area that I remember. The thing that's always reliably motivated him was the idea that people needed him, especially good, innocent people.

Last season I said I thought Henry was being shown as a bit arrogant and at least some disagreed, but I still think they're intentionally making that part of his character. Not in a toxic way that totally defines him (and I think the whole family's quite capable of being arrogant too) but I do think it's part of a characterization where he's always looking ahead to the the greater thing. I'm not explaining it well, but I do feel like it's meant to subtly comment on the business issue where you always have to be growing. (As Pete Campbell on Mad Men puts it, "Stable is that step backwards between successful and failing.") I really do wonder if it's meant to contrast with scenes of Philip genuinely enjoying line dancing or the sandwich and chips he doesn't even have to beg for.

When Paige was dismissive of her parents in S3 it was because she didn't see them as helping anybody like Pastor Tim and she did. Henry had that moment in S5 when Philip tries (again) to be supportive of his math classes and says maybe he can help at the agency and one day they'll all be working for him. Henry rolls his eyes and says he doesn't exactly see himself working at a travel agency. He's dissing his Dad's ambition  compared to his own--he's destined for greater things than running a travel agency! Henry and Paige were both mistaking their parents' cover for their true selves, but what they found wanting in those covers was very different.

[Umbelina]

I completely disagree with most of that.

I think there is a part of Philip that's proud of Henry for showing such initiative, and willingness to work for what he wants, instead of expecting it to be handed to him.  It's just all mixed up with Philip's failure, and that's in Philip's feelings, not in Henry's.  Henry doesn't look at what Philip's going through as some big failure or character flaw, he also went out of his way to make that very clear.  That's why he told him about his friend's dad, who had failures of his own in business.  It's business, it happens, no biggie, you can recover from this.  Meanwhile, I want to pitch in and help and not leave it all on your plate to solve dad.

Philip was understandably embarrassed that his failure not only had to be admitted to his son, but that his son told someone else about it.  Philip is very used to hiding everything, it's been his job for his entire adult life, so his initial reaction was what we would expect, and completely normal.  After that, he calmed down and promised to think about it.

Henry is the one who has repeated shown he cares about people.  He pays attention to his dad's and his mother's emotional state, he tries to help with that, with his dad, by trying to relieve some of the financial pressure.  With his mother, by conveying his concern for her to his dad.

Meanwhile, has Paige offered to move back home because the family's financial situation has changed, or to get a part time job to pay for her college?  No, she's oblivious.  As far as Paige caring about people?  She resented working at the food pantry, and couldn't wait to get away from her previous cult, the church, which was all about peacefully going about helping people, and peaceful change. 

The idea that Paige "cares" about anything other than herself is laughable, and if that's the story the writers are telling?  FAIL.  She's oblivious to other people's pain, she's an "un-useful idiot" in the spy game.  She knows almost nothing about the ideology or country she's committing treason for, she could barely relate to Claudia's deprivations and horrors of starvation, all while fighting the German army, or the loss of almost all of her family.  She didn't even reach out to touch Claudia's arm, or mumble an "I'm so sorry."  let alone something more clarifying or sympathetic. 

That would have been Henry's reaction, he would ask thoughtful questions and CARE that his mother ate rats, or that Claudia lost her family, and he would have shown it, at least with a sincere look in her eyes, or saying to his mother, "that must have been so hard, I'm so glad you survived, your mother sounds like a real fighter, just like you."

Going to a boarding school doesn't make one a bad person, and I've seen nothing whatsoever that indicates Henry doesn't care about people.  He always has, that's why he and Stan are close, that's why Henry actually has friends, friend who want to help him and care about him back.

Meanwhile Paige is trolling for one night stands and very excited about trying to honey-trap a Senator's aid, was thrilled to show off her fighting skills in a bar where she is known, doesn't care enough to read the papers and find out that her idiocy caused a sailor's death, screams at her mother, insults her father, and thinks she's hot shit while Elizabeth lies to her and for her, and is finally admitting to herself that Paige isn't cut out for this.

What is Paige cut out for?  One night stands and thrills, and joining cults.  Who does Paige care about other than Paige? 

Henry is a normal kid, only he's smart (unlike his follow the leader sister) and independent, and resourceful, and able to main tan and care about the relationships in his life.  His school gives him access to power, and yes, he MAY use that power only for his own goals, but from what we've seen about Henry, all the way back to "I'm a good person" and keeping Paige's secret about hitchhiking to the care he's currently showing both of his parents?  He could just as easily become a decent man, a leader, a senator that is honest and fair, or help invent something that will do great good in the world.  His life could go in any direction, and staying in that school increases those options.

[Chaos Theory]

Henry isn’t hurting anyone with his pursuits.  As a matter of fact up until he made the unforgivable mistake of telling a stranger about his family’s finances I would think of Henry as just a kid with lofty life goals. What exactly is wrong with that?  Are we saying everyone who goes to private school is a selfish person?   And he is fundamentally right that after three years it is waisted to not graduate.  At worst( very worst) I would call him a capitalist but I guess being raised by a couple of socialist that in itself an unforgivable act.  

But it shouldn’t be with the audience.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[sistermagpie]

58 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I think there is a part of Philip that's proud of Henry for showing such initiative, and willingness to work for what he wants, instead of expecting it to be handed to him. 

Of course. But I was talking I was speaking about how there's no reason Philip would see this kind of behavior as so fantastic he'd have a big emotional reaction to it even if he wasn't also feeling embarrassed about other people knowing. He's never been excited by it. It's not his world. But that doesn't mean he's not also proud of Henry for succeeding.

58 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Henry is the one who has repeated shown he cares about people.  He pays attention to his dad's and his mother's emotional state, he tries to help with that, with his dad, by trying to relieve some of the financial pressure.  With his mother, by conveying his concern for her to his dad.

 

58 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Henry is a normal kid, only he's smart (unlike his follow the leader sister) and independent, and resourceful, and able to main tan and care about the relationships in his life.  His school gives him access to power, and yes, he MAY use that power only for his own goals, but from what we've seen about Henry, all the way back to "I'm a good person" and keeping Paige's secret about hitchhiking to the care he's currently showing both of his parents?  He could just as easily become a decent man, a leader, a senator that is honest and fair, or help invent something that will do great good in the world.  His life could go in any direction, and staying in that school increases those options.

I agree he certainly could be all of that, but then I've never been arguing that Henry is a bad person--I don't think anybody has been. But I also think that Henry often gets readings that are unnecessarily flattering and avoiding of self-interest--even while he's sometimes praised for that same quality. (My favorite is still Henry breaking into the neighbors house to play with the video game he's wanted all season somehow becoming a story about poor Henry crying out for attention from his neglectful parents as if the kid couldn't actually want to play a video game.)

He cares about people. He's always been a nice kid. He came home for a few days, noticed tension in the house and tried to offer some support, wondered why Mom seemed sad, kindly and generously accepted her disinterest in him and got a lead that might help his dad while looking after his own self-interest. He's much better than Paige, imo, who seems to exacerbate other peoples' problems if she sees them at all, but I'm only going to see him putting himself out greatly out of care for other people in scenes where he's actually doing that.

51 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Henry isn’t hurting anyone with his pursuits.  As a matter of fact up until he made the unforgivable mistake of telling a stranger about his family’s finances I would think of Henry as just a kid with lofty life goals. What exactly is wrong with that?  Are we saying everyone who goes to private school is a selfish person?   At worst )very worst) I would call him a capitalist but I guess being raised by a couple of socialist that in itself an unforgivable act.  

Why does stating that Henry has lofty life goals that include going to a private school equal saying there's something wrong with that and anyone who goes to private school is a selfish person? I said that those particularly lofty goals and private school were not something his father shared, not that this made his father better. (In fact, it seems like the opposite is being argued, that boarding school is another sign of Henry's good character.) From a writing standpoint, aspiring to go to a ritzy private boarding school is not something one chooses to demonstrate a character cares about others and his family. That's just unavoidable--and the show really hasn't ever made that his prime directive, despite showing him as a good person. It would be like having Henry get into Punk Rock to demonstrate he loves animals.

Edited May 5, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Erin9]

I find attending an elite boarding school an unimpressive goal to have and his desire to go and stay in boarding school is not an impressive use of the skills he has that I do admire. I think it’s great that he’s motivated, a planner, independent, looking to be well educated, ambitious, etc.  But, with respect to boarding school, right now, all I see is a kid looking to mix with and become an elite. Nothing wrong with that. I’m just not impressed by this particular goal of his. It seems trivial to me. (I don’t think that makes anyone else better than him though for molding their lives around people and causes.) Maybe he wants to help people with some powerful career,  but he hadn’t said it. And if he doesn’t, that’s okay too. A good, worthwhile career doesn’t have to be people oriented. 

And FWIW- I’ve graduated from a private university. But an elite boarding school is just not doing anything for me as the be all end all that it seems to be for him to go to and stay in. Especially on a show like this. It’s so markedly different than anyone else’s interests and goals. Or most people’s in general. I’ve yet to meet anyone with a boarding school desire; it’s not that common. Ivy League, private school at home, performing arts high schools- not boarding schools though.

I can see why Philip, while supporting Henry, is not overly impressed or excited by this goal. 

I think Henry is basically a good kid. He cares about people. He’ll probably do very well in life. I just don’t see anything to be excited or impressed about in a boarding school. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Erin9

[scrb]

Boarding school could get him into an elite university and then a program which would put him in track for higher levels of civil service, which would be useful for espionage.

Of course Paige got into Georgetown which puts her on a similar track.  Surprised the Soviets didn't push the Jennings into making Henry a spy as well.

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, scrb said:

Of course Paige got into Georgetown which puts her on a similar track.  Surprised the Soviets didn't push the Jennings into making Henry a spy as well.

Small correction: she didn't. She's at George Washington.

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Boarding school could get him into an elite university and then a program which would put him in track for higher levels of civil service, which would be useful for espionage.

Of course Paige got into Georgetown which puts her on a similar track.  Surprised the Soviets didn't push the Jennings into making Henry a spy as well.

So can public school and private school. Happens all the time. 

Boarding school is completely unnecessary for that. It certainly doesn’t hurt, obviously, but to me, that’s not what you “get” out of boarding school as much as it is the connections/mixing with the very rich and,  I guess in Henry’s case, a desire for an elite lifestyle. 

I wish they’d address why the centre has ignored Henry. I’m okay with it, but they should say something.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Erin9

[Umbelina]

At boarding school though, for the first time in ages, Henry got something resembling a stable family.  No parents around constantly rushing out in the middle of the night, no shell-shocked looking sister wandering around either spying on her parents, screaming at them, or being hovered over by them.  Paige was their entire focus, Henry was the afterthought at best. 

Maybe that's what he was longing for most, something that at least felt normal.

I think Henry is aware that something is seriously off in that house, and with everyone in it.  He is now surrounded by people who actually do care for him, think of him, and his relationship with his own father is better than it's been in a long time.  Henry couldn't know that it's because his boarding school coincided with Philip deciding to no longer be a spy, how would he?  So all he knows is now that he's living away from home, he's close to his father again.  I doubt he expects them to be KGB (but who knows, he could, that Pastor's wife was screaming at the top of her lungs and he'd JUST left the room) but he does know that home is not some cozy caring place where he matters.

Hell, his parents walk away in the middle of a hockey game the moment Paige gets home from miniature golf with the pastors, and traipse after her like she's the only living thing in their presence, and she's carrying mouth watering fresh donuts.  He just looked resigned, stood there in the driveway with his hockey gear on looking after them.  He already knew it was going to happen.  It always happened.  He was the ignored child, Paige was all they seemed to care about.

Now, for the first time since Paige hit puberty?  Henry actually matters to people, they SEE him, the want his company, he gets praise from adults and friends alike for his accomplishments, no one at that school is just passing time waiting for Paige to arrive.

[sistermagpie]

49 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Now, for the first time since Paige hit puberty?  Henry actually matters to people, they SEE him, the want his company, he gets praise from adults and friends alike for his accomplishments, no one at that school is just passing time waiting for Paige to arrive.

I think it's a given that Henry does see Paige as getting more attention, but I don't think it's manifested as Henry needing to be at the school because this is the only place where people see him and care about him. (He can't be the only kid at that school with parents, fathers especially, who worked long hours.) His lines about himself are mostly about his abilities and accomplishments. In fact, if the school is the only place where people care about him he ought to have a different emotional reaction to them kicking him out over money, since that actually proves that they *don't* care about him personally.

Of course, this is something that could have unconsciously grown out of his feeling that Paige got more attention, but even if that's the case it led to his lines being about how he's good at stuff. When Philip tried to say he was proud of Henry suddenly doing well in math Henry said it was because his parents thought Paige was "the smart one." (Oh, how wrong the would have been about that!)

That's pretty much where his dialogue about himself has been at since then. If he just wanted people to care about him personally he didn't have to go to a fancy boarding school. Stan gave him a lot of attention until Henry stopped going to see him because he got more interested in his new overachieving friends that led him to St. Edwards. His stated reasons for going to the school was that it was the best and he needed the best because he has potential. He's destined for better things than running a travel agency. His new hard math class is easy for him. He's not worried about exams like other kids because he's going to ace them. He scored X goals and Y assists in whatever hockey game and he's going to be captain next year. He can't leave school because he needs it on his transcript that he graduated. Nothing in his dialogue implies a fear of losing love or attention. It's all about losing opportunity. All that is a perfect fit with "exclusive boarding school." Of course one could link that to an unconscious feeling that this is how one gets or loses attention, but that seems like a conclusion looking for evidence rather than something the show's really trying to hit, especially regarding his relationships with his parents.

Edited May 6, 2018 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Stan also got married, and was already not even spending time with Philip, let alone Henry, because Renee was consuming all of his time.

Boarding school is boarding school in the USA, I don't think "fancy" really applies.  Couldn't they all be considered "fancy?"

Either way, we disagree on this one, and Henry's possible motives, and also whether that choice of school means "all he cares about is money" or that he is shallow, or all of the rest of that. 

I'm not saying I am correct, I'm offering another way of looking at it.  Boarding schools DO become homes for the kids, that's the whole point.  Henry is much happier there than in his own extremely odd house.  It's not just the crazy hours of suddenly canceling trips and parents being gone for days at a time, or waking them up in the middle of the night to have a 'spontaneous vacation!" in some dump in the middle of nowhere.  It's no extended family at all, it's "business trips" out of nowhere, and sometimes in the middle of the night.  It's mom taking off for months to take care of a Great Aunt that has never been mentioned.  It's nutty Paige searching the basement, joining then leaving churches, and paranoid, and the constant focus of their parents for YEARS now.  It's mom suddenly, after being tense all day (and Henry understands and notices people's feelings) suddenly decide to stop playing the game LIFE on "family night," and take the kids to the movies, then circling the block twice and DUMPING them there while she takes off on a sudden errand.  I think any kid would know something is seriously off in that house, or at least sense that. 

He's away from all of that tension and weirdness now, and he's thriving.  Of course he wants to stay, he probably feels surrounded by normal people and normal problems for the first time in his life really. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Umbelina

[Erin9]

I don’t see anything normal about boarding school. Certainly not the people who attend it. It’s mostly a lot of incredibly wealthy kids who go there.....just like their parents. It’s simply not relatable on any level to me. Most of the kids who go there likely grew up with multiple homes, trips all over the world regularly, expensive cars at 16, housekeepers, nannies, etc. He’s entered a rarefied world. Not a normal one. 

It’s like an incredibly expensive elite pre college- with more supervision. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

I don’t see anything normal about boarding school. Certainly not the people who attend it. It’s mostly a lot of incredibly wealthy kids who go there.....just like their parents. It’s simply not relatable on any level to me. Most of the kids who go there likely grew up with multiple homes, trips all over the world regularly, expensive cars at 16, housekeepers, nannies, etc. He’s entered a rarefied world. Not a normal one. 

It’s like an incredibly expensive elite pre college- with more supervision. 

I really like Henry and his independence (reminds me a lot of myself, who hated hovering parents and did not get into trouble for it). However, I would imagine that an elite boarding school in 2018 would cost around 40K per year ( our friend sends his son to one). It would not be in the means of a middle-class family even an upper-middle-class family, particularly with two kids close to entering fairly expensive colleges. I really do not know what I would do if my child had their heart set on something like this. The Jennings also seem to live in a nice area that probably has a very good school system, with the high property taxes that come along with good schools, so it could be a financial double whammy.

Edited May 6, 2018 by qtpye

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Boarding school is boarding school in the USA, I don't think "fancy" really applies.  Couldn't they all be considered "fancy?"

I think the show made clear that fancy absolutely applies. It was specifically described as one of those schools with long, somewhat formal traditions and illustrious alumni. His parents used the words "fancy" and "country club" after looking at the brochure. Plus it's in New Hampshire--iow, Henry isn't just going to boarding school, he's going to this New England boarding school several states away because it's special.

 

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Either way, we disagree on this one, and Henry's possible motives, and also whether that choice of school means "all he cares about is money" or that he is shallow, or all of the rest of that. 

I wouldn't say all he cares about is money at all. Class isn't just about money. I don't think his ambition is simply to have tons of money in his bank account someday. He doesn't talk about that specifically and if that was his primary goal he might have gone a totally different way and just started amassing money. No, he seems much more about the world of influence or importance than buying stuff. He definitely seems to understand the difference between the two, even if they overlap.

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He's away from all of that tension and weirdness now, and he's thriving.  Of course he wants to stay, he probably feels surrounded by normal people and normal problems for the first time in his life really. 

Boarding school provides a structured life, particularly this traditional one. (I don't know how normal everybody at his elite boarding school is--they're not exactly known for that.) If he was bothered by his parents' hours (I doubt he cared much about things like his sister being in a church group) the boarding school would certainly be a relief--just as the church seemed to be for Paige. I'm just saying that all his lines about it are about the stuff that these kinds of elite boarding schools are known for. When he says it'll be terrible if he leaves school in his senior year, he doesn't talk about his friends or his life there, he says his time there is worthless if he doesn't graduate, which to me seems to reflect Philip's own struggles about what things are worth etc.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

(I don't know how normal everybody at his elite boarding school is--they're not exactly known for that.)

Well, I doubt anyone at the school has been off cutting people's throats while trying to overthrow the country, and I don't see Henry dressing up in disguises and seducing Senator's aides, let alone getting sailor's murdered by dear old mom like Paige.

Their life has never been normal.  Kids sense it, Paige certainly did, Henry, who actually cares about the feelings of others, HAD to sense all that tension.  By comparison, boarding school is very normal, no murders, spying, endless lying, nutso sister, fighting parents, crazy hours.  Just school.

So what's a cheap boarding school in the USA?  I didn't think we had any here that were not "fancy."

Edited May 6, 2018 by Umbelina

[duVerre]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

At boarding school though, for the first time in ages, Henry got something resembling a stable family.  No parents around constantly rushing out in the middle of the night, no shell-shocked looking sister wandering around either spying on her parents, screaming at them, or being hovered over by them.  Paige was their entire focus, Henry was the afterthought at best. 

Maybe that's what he was longing for most, something that at least felt normal.

I think Henry is aware that something is seriously off in that house, and with everyone in it.  He is now surrounded by people who actually do care for him, think of him, and his relationship with his own father is better than it's been in a long time.  Henry couldn't know that it's because his boarding school coincided with Philip deciding to no longer be a spy, how would he?  So all he knows is now that he's living away from home, he's close to his father again.  I doubt he expects them to be KGB (but who knows, he could, that Pastor's wife was screaming at the top of her lungs and he'd JUST left the room) but he does know that home is not some cozy caring place where he matters.

Hell, his parents walk away in the middle of a hockey game the moment Paige gets home from miniature golf with the pastors, and traipse after her like she's the only living thing in their presence, and she's carrying mouth watering fresh donuts.  He just looked resigned, stood there in the driveway with his hockey gear on looking after them.  He already knew it was going to happen.  It always happened.  He was the ignored child, Paige was all they seemed to care about.

Now, for the first time since Paige hit puberty?  Henry actually matters to people, they SEE him, the want his company, he gets praise from adults and friends alike for his accomplishments, no one at that school is just passing time waiting for Paige to arrive.

I have always thought that this is the answer. Henry, like any kid, yearns for structure, consistent role models (teachers) and friends. He yearns for community. Oh, and one that features hockey!  He has achieved all that, at long last--not because someone gave it to him, but because he went out and got it himself--and he's thriving. Naturally, he's been thinking up ways to help Philip provide tuition. He doesn't want to lose what feels like home. That's a powerful motivator. Asking a child of any age to switch schools when they're happy with the one they've got is HUGE. This would especially apply to Henry, who had to leave his parents house to find the home that a young man needs.

If he learns about his parents and Paige--and he has to--well, that will be the saddest tale The Americans has to tell. So, from a writing point of view, I think he is of more value, dramatically speaking, as the innocent whose eyes must be opened than as a secret KGB recruit. The Americans is full of guilty or cynical people, people living double lives. Henry, a child unmarked by that, a child who must realize the truth, would be the ultimate collateral damage. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by duVerre
I obsess about prepositions

[sistermagpie]

33 minutes ago, duVerre said:

If he learns about his parents and Paige--and he has to--well, that will be the saddest tale The Americans has to tell.

Less sad if he was already so over them he found a home for himself elsewhere. He's even got the last year's tuition covered on his own.

[Umbelina]

Henry will be devastated, no matter what.  Life, as he knows it, will be over if his parents and/or sister is caught.  No more parents, and I really doubt the prep school will be giving him any more scholarships.  He'll be famous, and not in a good way, and every door he's worked so hard to open will be slammed when they see him coming.

He loves his family, and finding out they've lied to him for his entire life will be bad enough, but seeing them in prison, dead, or exchanged for people held in the USSR, and sent back there, will crush him.  He's still a minor, unlike Paige.  In a few years, it will be even worse, the Soviet Union falls and it was all for nothing.  All the people his parent's murdered, and the sabotage of the USA, the reveal that his dad had a pretend marriage with a mark, everything that will come out in charges when they are arrested, or after they are killed, or one is and one escapes, however it turns out?

They've turned their son's life into a nightmare.

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Life, as he knows it, will be over if his parents and/or sister is caught.  No more parents, and I really doubt the prep school will be giving him any more scholarships.  He'll be famous, and not in a good way, and every door he's worked so hard to open will be slammed when they see him coming.

 

So devastation over losing the family that's actually his family and possibly a big monkey wrench thrown into his ambitious. Exactly.

[SusanSunflower]

Annoyed that "Henry's ambitions" are so undefined at this point .... Business School v. Finance and Wall Street, Medical School, Law School or something of more personal interest talent/interest like Communications, International Affairs or Politics -- who knows .... just still unexpectedly brilliant and ambitious Henry to contrast with good-girl good-student similarly aimless (beyond adult approval seeing mini-me) Paige. 

[Umbelina]

14 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Henry will be devastated, no matter what.  Life, as he knows it, will be over if his parents and/or sister is caught.  No more parents, and I really doubt the prep school will be giving him any more scholarships.  He'll be famous, and not in a good way, and every door he's worked so hard to open will be slammed when they see him coming.

He loves his family, and finding out they've lied to him for his entire life will be bad enough, but seeing them in prison, dead, or exchanged for people held in the USSR, and sent back there, will crush him.  He's still a minor, unlike Paige.  In a few years, it will be even worse, the Soviet Union falls and it was all for nothing.  All the people his parent's murdered, and the sabotage of the USA, the reveal that his dad had a pretend marriage with a mark, everything that will come out in charges when they are arrested, or after they are killed, or one is and one escapes, however it turns out?

They've turned their son's life into a nightmare.

 

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

So devastation over losing the family that's actually his family and possibly a big monkey wrench thrown into his ambitious. Exactly.

You left out that part when you quoted me.

I think it's a bit more than throwing a "monkey wrench" into his plans.  It's more like lobbing a grenade at him.  He will lose everything, family, future, peace, trust, reputation, possibly his country as well.  Even if, and I doubt it, both parents and sister all get out alive?  He will be devastated.  If you think his only, or even primary devastation will be financial?  Or that I am saying that?  No, not even close, he will lose everything.

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

Annoyed that "Henry's ambitions" are so undefined at this point .... Business School v. Finance and Wall Street, Medical School, Law School or something of more personal interest talent/interest like Communications, International Affairs or Politics -- who knows .... just still unexpectedly brilliant and ambitious Henry to contrast with good-girl good-student similarly aimless (beyond adult approval seeing mini-me) Paige. 

Exactly.  He hasn't even discussed a major yet, just been interested in math, in computers, in hockey, and in American Literature, he could become anything, though probably not a spy that murders people for the Soviet Union every few days.  That will be very hard on him, to know his parents are, not only spies, but murderers, not only using honey traps, but marrying other people.  He doesn't even know their real names.