Philip: The Defector, And Then A Question Mark

[Tara Ariano]

He loves America (LIKE WE ALL DO), but he also loves/is terrified by Elizabeth and likely just to do whatever she thinks. How is that playing out in S2?

[Kierstyn]

I find him the most compelling character on the show.  I'm not sure exactly why... and I haven't seen all of season one, so I know I missed a lot.  But there is just something about the layers of his acting. I don't know how coherently I can put this...  But you see the masks he wears while doing his job.  And then you see him take them off, and just when you think he's being "himself", then he peels off another layer, and you never know where the character exists, or if he is just a succession of masks who doesn't know who his true self is.  That's a lot to have conveyed in the 8 episodes I have seen so far.  I'm impressed.

[scrb]

I'm hoping the show lasts long enough for glasnost, perestroika, Gorbachev and even the fall of the Soviet Union.  The reactions of Philip and Elizabeth, as well as their kids, could be interesting.

Ultimately the kids could play a major part in whether they defect.

Already, the show mentioned Andropov, someday becoming General Secretary, because in the early '80s, he was probably big in the KGB.  Of course, glasnost and Gorabachev quickly follows Andropov's ascent to becoming leader and his short reign as General Secretary.

[Hal25]

I'm hoping in the coming episodes we'll continue to learn more and more about Philip's past. We got a little glimpse into it with the icicles and I get the sense he and Elizabeth have had that conversation off screen (at least like where he's from, the basics), but it's driving me crazy to be completely in the dark!

[PinkRibbons]

I've been turning it over in my mind for a while now, and I think I've come up with a likely headcanon for Philip-as-Misha (based on my own knowledge of wartime and post-war Russia, but also considering writing conventions): I think he's an orphan. If what he told Paige, about his father dying when he was six, is actually true to Misha's life, that places his death directly in the war. Even if the story isn't true to the exact detail, there was such massive loss of life in Russia -- most especially among men -- during the war that barely anyone Misha's age had a father. As for his mother, I sort of think that the writers wouldn't go that route since it would be too similar to Elizabeth/Nadezhda's upbringing. If Misha did lose his mother, it was probably to disease (typhus killed my Great-grandfather during the war, not the Nazis) or starvation. Without any parents or family, Misha would have ended up at an orphanage. In Tobolsk, which is very deep Russia. I don't know if I have to elaborate, but orphanages in the Soviet Union were horrific. Being plucked from an orphanage to be trained for KGB work would have been a huge honor and relief -- it would be a practically rags to riches story, leaving Misha very grateful.

 

One of the reasons I really like this headcanon is that would add even more dimension to the difference between Philip and Elizabeth's views on protecting the USSR: Elizabeth didn't have a comfortable childhood, but she did have a mother who loved her and kept her -- and indoctrinated her to be a True Believer. Philip would have experienced years of neglect and starvation and the suffering of others. I think his motivation for being a spy is far less political than it is compassionate. While Elizabeth believes that she is defending the shining way to the future, Philip relates at a more human level, putting in work for his country with the idea that it benefits the suffering people he left behind; if America isn't a threat, than Russian citizens have a better chance of surviving and prospering and having a life better than his was.

 

Can't wait to see how gloriously right or shamefully wrong I am!

[sistermagpie]

I've been turning it over in my mind for a while now, and I think I've come up with a likely headcanon for Philip-as-Misha (based on my own knowledge of wartime and post-war Russia, but also considering writing conventions): I think he's an orphan.

 

 

Interestingly, I've seen this idea come up a lot--and it came into my head too. I could totally buy it. I don't think Philip's line about his father dying tells us one way or another whether his own father died at the same time since whatever he said to Paige would fit his false Philip Jennings backstory, which might or might not intersect with Misha's real life, and would have to include him being an orphan since he has no family. But regardless, as you say, a man his age from that country would always have a good chance of not having a father.

 

In the first season I remember in discussions a lot of us wondered if he was an orphan because family and protecting family seems like such a hot button for him, yet at the same time he left everyone he knew behind, which seems at odds with someone who values family relationships so much. It seemed at least logical that if he'd lost his family he'd be hyper-vigilant about this one.

 

It's also why when we got that tiny snippet of his childhood I wondered if orphans would be sent to get milk, or whether as an institution it would be just be delivered. (Of course, he could also have had some family earlier that died as well.)

 

I think his motivation for being a spy is far less political than it is compassionate.

 

 

That does seem to make a lot of sense. I like the way the two of them are both supporters of the same cause but in different ways and perhaps for slightly different reasons. We didn't see any flashbacks to Philip's relationship with Emmett (like we did with Elizabeth and Leanne) but I remember when he spoke with Fred he said something about how Emmett liked people who saw the world "the way it was" and that seemed like something Philip would agree on, that he would see the world as unsafe for people without protection. In fact, he says as much when he's talking to Martha as Clark, that the world is full of terrible people. (It's one of those moments where he's speaking in character for a specific reason--to play her the tape of her co-workers being terrible--but seems to be speaking a personal truth as well.) 

[kikaha]

I wonder how long before he's faced with killing Stan and/or Martha? 

[crgirl412]

 

I wonder how long before he's faced with killing Stan and/or Martha?

I miss talking about this stuff!!  I don't know maybe S3 or even S4?  It will it be very interesting as I think that he will kill Martha first and then Stan will investigate and then discover Philip! 

[topanga]

 

I'm not sure exactly why... and I haven't seen all of season one, so I know I missed a lot.  But there is just something about the layers of his acting. I don't know how coherently I can put this...  But you see the masks he wears while doing his job.  And then you see him take them off, and just when you think he's being "himself", then he peels off another layer, and you never know where the character exists, or if he is just a succession of masks who doesn't know who his true self is.  That's a lot to have conveyed in the 8 episodes I have seen so far.  I'm impressed.

Matthew Rhys continues this complexity and awesomeness throughout the two seasons.

--When he's protecting Elizabeth or his kids, or just being a dad, or when he's on a mission, he's a great guy and I love him. Is this the real Philip?

 

--But when he's deceiving Martha as Clark, I hate him for the way he emotionally manipulates her and is setting her up for the worst fall of her life.  So is this the real Philip/Misha, a man who's great at deceiving everyone around him?

[sistermagpie]

I love that MR once when talking about Philip said that when he's with Elizabeth that's "as close to" the real man that we ever "see."

 

It's such a slippery way of saying it that's perfect for Philip. He's not saying that the "real Philip" is the person he is with Elizabeth, he's totally reinforcing the idea that the "real guy" is completely elusive--certainly to the audience, and perhaps also to Philip himself. 

[CheersEnthusiast]

I miss talking about this stuff!!  I don't know maybe S3 or even S4?  It will it be very interesting as I think that he will kill Martha first and then Stan will investigate and then discover Philip! 

 

I don't think he'll kill Martha.  Just don't think he'll do it.

[jennybfry]

Hello! I'm new to this show, having just discovered it on Amazon Prime last week after watching MR in Death Comes to Pemberley. Anyway, I am amazed at what a complex character Philip is! I just rewatched "The Clock" and "Gregory", and I find it fascinating how emotional Philip gets after they are asked it do "impossible things." Also you could tell that Elizabeth broke his heart when she was describing how she felt about Gregory, vs how she felt about him. Matthew Rhys is an amazing actor and I'm continually astounded by the depths that he brings to the character of Philip. I haven't seen season 2 yet, and I won't get to until it's released on Amazon Prime and we don't have cable so I won't get to help the ratings by watching season 3 in real time. Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts..

Edited November 16, 2014 by jennybfry

[sistermagpie]

Philip plays the nicer one, the heart on his sleeve guy, more emotional, so less "character" development is needed for him.  Elizabeth is guarded, so we get these little tidbits to understand her a bit.  I think.

 

 

I think that's the idea, but isn't that really an illusion? He often has reactions that are less abrasive to your average viewer perhaps-he cares about hurting people, wants his kids to have fun, doesn't think the US is pure evil. I can see them thinking those things don't need softening or explaining.

 

But in reality Elizabeth has far more strong relationships than he does, she's more emotional, she's more open about her emotions. Plus her motivation is pretty clear early on: she's caring underneath but thinks she needs to be strong for her cause. Where as Philip is a nice guy who nevertheless seems to even more capacity for viciousness. He's family oriented, yet chose the same lonely life as Elizabeth.

 

Philip's in many ways the opposite of heart on his sleeve guy. He's incredibly closed off and hard to reach. He's just outwardly affable, the kind of guy that everybody likes but nobody knows. Elizabeth is the type of person who seems intimidating at first but inspires devotion and freely gives and returns it.

 

I feel like of the two Philip is the more natural spy--a natural at deflecting attention. Presenting as the opposite is part of that, I think. He's not less guarded than Elizabeth, he's guarded on more levels, imo. For instance, her past always exists right under the surface, ready to come out in dialogue or cloaked dialogue to the kids or flashbacks. Philip's is buried so deeply it takes an entire night of battering to get to "I like the cold," which manages to sound like a major bit of info.

Edited January 29, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

I meant that Philip is easier to understand as a viewer.  He talks more, he shares his feelings and reasons for them.  Maybe it's because he really does question the whole "loyalty to the motherland" and outright says things like "this way of life isn't that bad (USA) and not what we were told."  Meanwhile, Elizabeth is party line 95% of the time, and while we can't understand why Philip IS NOT, it's harder to understand why Elizabeth IS.

 

Actually, that interview with the actress in the media thread addresses this very issue.  Worth a read!

[sistermagpie]

I meant that Philip is easier to understand as a viewer.  He talks more, he shares his feelings and reasons for them.

 

 

Elizabeth does those things far more than Philip. Philip certainly shares his opinions on things and often backs them up--he makes arguments--but he almost never gives any explanation/backstory for his feelings about things. He rarely makes it personal to him. He evades all the time or talks about things outside himself to explain something. Elizabeth, by contrast, gets clear flashbacks that explain where she's coming from step by step, and she also has a few times where she explains really eloquently what she was feeling and why--most obviously in the scene where she talks about Gregory. We know about many formative moments of her life.

 

So I totally agree that the show feels that Elizabeth needs for apologia for her hardline Soviet positions in ways that Philip doesn't need it or positions like "let's give our children a life of their own that's honest" or "I feel badly about killing innocent people." But it's the exact opposite of him stating his feelings and reasons for him. It's just him stating opinions that don't need any more explanation than the context. Still, caracterwise, Elizabeth is a pretty open book at this point. Philip's a question mark. Or a well you could drop a stone in and never hear it hit the ground.

Edited January 30, 2015 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

I see your point.

 

I feel like Philip would drop the whole soviet allegiance in a heartbeat if Elizabeth would agree.  He'd defect or run happily, and be relocated to avoid KGB death.  He'd just love to see his kids be able to lead "normal" lives.   He liked Elizabeth finally loving him instead of acting the part.  I think he'd be thrilled when the soviet union collapses, he'd be out, free, and could just stop.  He'd probably still hate the wars (fit right in with many Americans at that time there) and be an atheist, but the rest?  Happy to be rid of it. 

 

I don't feel that way with true-believer Elizabeth. 

 

Interesting timeline here:  http://www.tv3.co.nz/Shows/TheAmericans/Timeline.aspx

 

So, Breshnev dies in November of 1982.  The only have 9 years left anyway, but will they survive it.

 

The big conflict is going to be over Paige.  That may tear Elizabeth and Philip apart, perhaps even cause him to take drastic actions.  They may become work partners again over this issue, no longer the married for real team they became.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Umbelina

[scrb]

Did the Center or the handlers tell P&E that they were expected to get married, have children and then turn those children into spies when they were first brought together and placed in the US?

 

Or even back in Russia when they were being trained for this mission, that they'd live the rest of their lives in a foreign country, lived like their ideological enemies, raise children (partly as cover) but make those children also loyal subjects of the motherland?

 

It would make Philip's resistance more interesting if he'd been told from the beginning that was the plan.  It would mean he's changed his outlook over time and that while still a loyal spy, he's starting to value his personal life more relative to the mission.

 

Only thing he could say to Gabriel was that Paige is only 14 (or was it what he said to Elizabeth, or both?).  Seemed like a greater concern would be that he doesn't want his children to end up like Emmett and Leane's children, especially the daughter who was slaughtered along with the couple.

 

Though I guess concern for his children's safety wouldn't be a valid concern to the KGB, since they're expected to risk their lives for the country.

[Umbelina]

It seems that they knew that they had to ACT married, but didn't Elizabeth originally not want to have kids, and only did it because the KGB insisted?  I think "have some kids" was tacked on after they were here.  ??

[sistermagpie]

Did the Center or the handlers tell P&E that they were expected to get married, have children and then turn those children into spies when they were first brought together and placed in the US?

 

 

It seems that they knew that they had to ACT married, but didn't Elizabeth originally not want to have kids, and only did it because the KGB insisted?  I think "have some kids" was tacked on after they were here.  ??

 

 

Having kids was absolutely part of the deal from the beginning. When they arrive in America Philip reminds her that they're going to have to have kids. Leanne reminded her of the same thing when she mentioned how she never actually wanted them. They'd both agreed to that part before they came here. Elizabeth was more nervous about it, but she knew she'd agreed to it.

 

But this new program where the kids become spies I think is clearly something new--as Claudia said, it was a new program. Emmett and Leanne didn't know about it. Philip and Elizabeth have always agreed that they would do their best to keep their kids completely clear of their spy life, but back then it was understood that the kids would never know their secret and would always be American.

 

So I think it's more of a thing that's new, but isn't surprising when Philip looks back on it. Like why wouldn't the Centre want the kids too, since they have everything else? He's been fooling himself to think they'd even have that much respect for their personal lives, really.

[DrSpaceman]

I don't imagine the centre told them from the beginning the specific details of getting married, having kids and then those kids will become spies.  However, just speculation, they likely vaguely referred to it in the past, something along the lines of "We expect loyalty and unquesionable devotion from the whole family", or something along those lines, which can be interpreted in many ways. 

 

And though the Centre may say its a "new" program, it probably didn't take them long to think of it after sending couples as spies overseas to live in the US.  Its doesn't take much to connect the dots if you are running the program and come up with the idea.  You have a couple, they get married, they have kids, so what happens with the kids as they get older? Thinking of the options, this one would be the most ideal for them if possible. 

[sistermagpie]

And though the Centre may say its a "new" program, it probably didn't take them long to think of it after sending couples as spies overseas to live in the US.  Its doesn't take much to connect the dots if you are running the program and come up with the idea.

 

 

The main reason I think they might be telling the truth about this being new is what happened with the Connors. If they already had successful 2nd generations why not tell P&E that? Why only give them the example of Jared? It would have gone down better if Grannie had been able to say that Emmett and Leanne were simply the first two to refuse and so they made the mistake of going behind their back.

 

After all, it's possible that there aren't that many married couple Illegals with families who are that much older than the Jennings or the Connors. They arrived in I think 1965. They may have started the program in the 50s and taken a while to work it out, then started out by sending an individual man here and there, then a woman or two. 

 

I just remembered, actually, that last season I had wondered if Kate might turn out to be a 2nd generation Illegal--this was before the idea was introduced in the show, but she was so young etc. that I thought maybe there would be some revelation that this was who she was. 

[scrb]

The other thing is, were they expected to work into their 50s or 60s, retire and then return to the USSR?

 

I don't think there were mass KGB defections because they were probably staunch loyalists.  But after living 30, 40 years in comfort, speaking English mainly or exclusively, they become Americans, no?

 

Esp. when they came here as young adults, not 30-somethings, not even in their mid 20s.

 

How does living here through major milestones, like marriage and rising kids, not change your outlook and priorities?

 

I read in one of the threads that the real-life illegals had accents and sounds like they didn't integrate as seamlessly into American society.  Not just in terms of being indistinguishable from the locals but in terms of lifestyle.  Maybe the Center makes a mistake by giving the Jennings what amounts to a solidly middle middle-class, if not a bit upper middle-class lifestyle.

 

Remember, Stan envied the car Philip had and he can't be doing that poorly as an FBI agent in Washington.

 

So a relatively cushy lifestyle for the Jennings is just putting temptation in front of them?  Maybe they wouldn't be interested in returning to the Soviet Union, either at retirement or if they're recalled at any time?

 

Obviously Eastern bloc athletes (as well as Cuban athletes) defected because they could see the Western athletes they beat in the Olympics made a good living -- even as "amateurs."  The embassy staff seems to have luxuries that most Soviet citizens didn't have -- before the fall, there were accounts of breadlines, crappy appliances and electronics, etc.  It's no wonder Nina could smuggle in stereo equipment and make a nice sum.

 

Now would they easily give up that lifestyle, even if they didn't have any problems about giving up their children or the Center didn't demand their children go into service?

[PinkRibbons]

I kind of assume that Elizabeth and Philip, along with several other implants, were never expected to last this long. Maybe they were told to prepare themselves to live out their lives in America, but I suspect the Centre was probably taking it a few months at a time, with the assumption of an inevitable result that their spies would be caught or turned or forced to flee before long. It's a rational assumption to make -- not a lot of people are cut out to do the long haul. For all we know Philip and Elizabeth (and Leanne and Emmet) were exceptions to their general track record. And I've always thought that Philip and Elizabeth must be considered the best of the best, since even though the other spies seem spread over the Eastern Seaboard, they're the ones closest to the Capital, and running a lot of operations directly under the noses of the highest government in the land.

Edited February 3, 2015 by PinkRibbons

[sistermagpie]

I read in one of the threads that the real-life illegals had accents and sounds like they didn't integrate as seamlessly into American society.  Not just in terms of being indistinguishable from the locals but in terms of lifestyle.  Maybe the Center makes a mistake by giving the Jennings what amounts to a solidly middle middle-class, if not a bit upper middle-class lifestyle.

 

 

I believe all the Illegals were paid very very well--which would keep them pretty loyal, I'd think. If they defected their income would be gone. Though I think the Jennings actually do make money on their travel agency--Philip's car was believably covered by the uptick in business, but in reality he'd have a lot of money from his KGB salary which he'd have to be careful not to draw attention with. (Travel agencies aren't exactly a solid business to be in long term we now know!)

 

But really, sending anybody to the US is automatically tempting them with an alternate lifestyle. If they gave them a harsh one they'd probably start working the system and be more tempted to get out. I think postings like these were understood to be the ones everyone wanted for just this reason--people like Oleg would want to come West and might have the connections to get that appointment.

 

I don't honestly know what they did in terms of retirement but within the show, there's not really any reason you can't keep spying late in life--Gabriel's in his 70s, "Aunt Ruth" is probably older. So they might just transition into a less intense forms of spying. Their roots in the US would always be a help to the Soviets.

 

I believe real life Illegals were also periodically brought back to the USSR so they could check up on them too. They'd dose them with alleged "truth serum" to see if they were maybe getting less committed. 

[Hecate7]

I believe all the Illegals were paid very very well--which would keep them pretty loyal, I'd think. If they defected their income would be gone. Though I think the Jennings actually do make money on their travel agency--Philip's car was believably covered by the uptick in business, but in reality he'd have a lot of money from his KGB salary which he'd have to be careful not to draw attention with. (Travel agencies aren't exactly a solid business to be in long term we now know!)

Well, not since the advent of home computers, but they were a pretty solid business before that time.

[sistermagpie]

Well, not since the advent of home computers, but they were a pretty solid business before that time.

 

 

Right, that's what I mean--that the travel agency business wouldn't stay as profitable as it seems to be now.

[chocolatine]

Right, that's what I mean--that the travel agency business wouldn't stay as profitable as it seems to be now.

 

 

At least communism and the travel agency business won't both collapse at the same time. ;)

[topanga]

From a recent interview w/  Matthew Rhys:

 

To turn to the Russians and say, “We want to stop now,” they would say, “You’re basically gonna do this until you’re caught or dead.” And so the only way to secure the kids is to defect, and I think that still sits within him. It’s his super objective in life is to see them grow up as Americans. And therefore for (Elizabeth) to take it one step further and say, “Actually, it’s not just enough for them to be raised here with a slight socialist slant to their upbringing; I want them to do what we do,” all his nightmares have come true.

 

So if Elizabeth wakes up one morning and says, “You know what, honey? Let’s defect,” he would do it in a second?

 

Matthew Rhys: In a heartbeat. That’s my take on it.

Read more at http://www.hitfix.co...obP1OJpT1gEh.99

 

So does Philip still believe in what they're doing? In terms of ideologies, the Cold War was Communism vs. Democracy and Socialism vs. Capitalism. Philip has clearly bought into some of the trappings of capitalism--the fast car, nice things for the family, the desire for an easier life for his children. (The biggest indulgence I've seen Elizabeth allow for herself is a  long soak in a deep bathtub).

 

--But I can't tell if Philip still believes in the Communist political way, or if he's simply going along with it because that's what he's been raised to love and idealize? He doesn't seem to mind when the kids have independent thoughts or when they speak their minds. But he clearly doesn't like Reagan's policy and he doesn't like religion, so I'm unclear where his political leanings fall.

[sistermagpie]

So does Philip still believe in what they're doing? In terms of ideologies, the Cold War was Communism vs. Democracy and Socialism vs. Capitalism. Philip has clearly bought into some of the trappings of capitalism--the fast car, nice things for the family, the desire for an easier life for his children. (The biggest indulgence I've seen Elizabeth allow for herself is a  long soak in a deep bathtub)

 

 

Here's my take on this. I think MR has very little info on Philip's backstory and is making choices the best he can as an actor from the script, and for him that means concentrating on things Philip obviously cares about, like his family. He wants to survive. I don't think he honestly has the info to speak much about Philip's dedication to the cause or his country, so like many viewers tends to just think of him as either the American one or the one without much of that.

 

Which personally I don't really like, which is why I always appreciate it when the creators talk about it and just say flat out that no, Philip does not find the job difficult in terms of the ideology, that the Socialist cause has been "bred into his bones" and that he's a soldier and "his country" (meaning Russia) is at war so he'll do what he has to do. 

 

So my take on it, just speculating, is that Philip does obviously harbor a fantasy that he'd be able to retire without having to really betray his country by defecting--which I think is obviously false. Defection is not a retirement program. You can't decide to "be smart" by not being like Timoshev in "giving speeches." You're working for the US now and using everything you know to bring down your home country. So yeah, if Elizabeth wanted to defect I think he'd do it, but I think he's still loyal to his country and could totally adapt to living back there. The perks of the US system are just that--perks that he isn't guilty about enjoying but don't mean he's not a socialist. Respecting that his kids are American doesn't have to make him American.

 

The thing with Elizabeth is she tends to be so dominating/loud about the things that she identifies with it's hard to hear anyone else. So Elizabeth is *such* a staunch believer, so black and white, so dogmatic that Philip's more nuanced beliefs just aren't going to get heard. Especially since this is Philip who plays it so close to his chest anyway. I think that's the way it usually is all over--the person who can speak in sound bites, even if they're untrue, gets their point across. The person who sees things as more complicated sounds mealy-mouthed because they have to speak in a more complicated way and might have to refute every simple point with something more complicated.

 

Think, for instance, of In Control where Elizabeth accuses Philip of loving the Americans so much he can't believe they do anything nasty like have a coup. And he can't go into a long explanation about it, but basically just says to her that no, it has nothing to do with good/bad, it's down to how this society works vs. the way theirs works making him see that this is not the way things go down in the US. Doesn't mean they don't do terrible things.

[sistermagpie]

From the Baggage Thread

 

I've always felt that Philip grew up in a Russian intelligentsia family—perhaps one of writers, musicians, professors,etc in Leningrad and then became an orphan through the later stages of the purge or Siege. Maybe I'm just projecting since I expect the character to be more cultured knowing that the actor is British,LOL, but I've felt this way about Philip from almost the very beginning. I can't believe how long they have kept us waiting with his storyline!

 

 

I'd never thought of that. Are there things Philip himself has done that gave you that impression? He's not from Leningrad--he's from Tobolsk in Siberia.

 

One of the things I like about Philip is whether or not one would describe him as cultured he's always shown taking in different information. I mean, we know he follows sports and likes country music and fast cars, last season he was reading a socialist classic. I feel like there were other times as well. And I know there are two scenes coming up where he also happens to be reading specific things in the background (not mentioning for spoilers), each of which aren't central to the scene but were obviously chosen as things Philip would be doing by default that are educating himself about things relevant to his interests.

 

So whether or not he came from a family that was highly educated, I get the impression that he's a curious learner himself. This is also why I liked in EST Men how he and Gabriel played Scrabble--a brainy word game that Philip apparently finds fun to play in his second language. It seems very believable to me that Philip and Elizabeth came to the attention of their handlers in very different ways. If Elizabeth impressed with her patriotic fervor and excellence in all her studies due to her commitment (and intelligence), Philip may have stood out as more of a recreational, autodidact.

[Zhenya93]

From the Baggage Thread

 

 

I'd never thought of that. Are there things Philip himself has done that gave you that impression? He's not from Leningrad--he's from Tobolsk in Siberia.

 

One of the things I like about Philip is whether or not one would describe him as cultured he's always shown taking in different information. I mean, we know he follows sports and likes country music and fast cars, last season he was reading a socialist classic. I feel like there were other times as well. And I know there are two scenes coming up where he also happens to be reading specific things in the background (not mentioning for spoilers), each of which aren't central to the scene but were obviously chosen as things Philip would be doing by default that are educating himself about things relevant to his interests.

 

So whether or not he came from a family that was highly educated, I get the impression that he's a curious learner himself. This is also why I liked in EST Men how he and Gabriel played Scrabble--a brainy word game that Philip apparently finds fun to play in his second language. It seems very believable to me that Philip and Elizabeth came to the attention of their handlers in very different ways. If Elizabeth impressed with her patriotic fervor and excellence in all her studies due to her commitment (and intelligence), Philip may have stood out as more of a recreational, autodidact.

I agree with you, SisterMagpie. I can't remember remember exactly all things that led me to my idea, but I think one of the first things was the look he gave Stan when he dipped the potato chip in the caviar. Of course, there probably wasn't caviar in Tolbolsk either, but perhaps stories from a family member? And also during the conversation with the caviar when Elizabeth just assumedly includes Philip in the "you know what it was like back then when we had nothing", but he doesn't really answer. I wouldn't imagine he would have anything in Siberia, but he didn't seem to come from that kind of family that really didn't have anything in that sense. Do we ever see Philip play chess with Henry? I thought we did, but that might just be the same as checkers for a Russian, eh?

 

What I don't understand is why he is more passionate about his hate for religion than Elizabeth. Elizabeth seemed to resent the idea because it went against her ideology, but with Philip I wonder if it has to do with a more personal betrayal. 

[Umbelina]

That made me google.  It's kind of a beautiful place really, in many ways.  Cold, of course, but it doesn't seem to have much colder temps than Moscow really, it's pretty far south.  When I hear "Siberia" I think I expected something different.

[sistermagpie]

What I don't understand is why he is more passionate about his hate for religion than Elizabeth. Elizabeth seemed to resent the idea because it went against her ideology, but with Philip I wonder if it has to do with a more personal betrayal.

 

 

I don't think he is more passionate. He blew up at Paige and was furious at Pastor Tim, but that was because he was under stress and she specifically said that he and Elizabeth never helped anybody and he was ready to go at anyone. (Not that Pastor Tim didn't deserve getting reemed out for accepting that much money from a kid like that's appropriate.) Philip's view of religion in the first season was just that he thought it made people do irrational things so he hated having to deal with it. When Viola asked him if he believed in God he just said, "No," in a way that to me read very much like "that is not going to get you anywhere so would you please just deal with the reality?" 

 

But when Paige started up with it he just saw it as a phase that might or might not last. Elizabeth was frustrated at how little it bothered him. He was willing to let her go to the camp. Philip doesn't have any real hatred for religion, I don't think. He might hate Paige choosing her church family over her biological family, but he would hate that with anything.

 

Re: the caviar--I remember discussing this at the time when Elizabeth says "We were like you" when Philip asks if she's ever had the good stuff. I would guess they would have had opportunities to try it--after all, they were KGB--without growing up with it as a luxury. Philip doesn't specifically say anything about his real history with caviar, though. (He gives Stan a great impromptu story about when Philip would have tried it and makes sure to act like he finds it too salty--love that.)

 

That made me google.  It's kind of a beautiful place really, in many ways.  Cold, of course, but it doesn't seem to have much colder temps than Moscow really, it's pretty far south.  When I hear "Siberia" I think I expected something different.

 

 

Yeah, it is pretty. Sub-arctic but it's not in Antarctica. I actually love how their two home cities seem to fit them, from the little I know about them (please correct me, anyone who knows Russia!). Smolensk is really far west in European Russia and is a real battleground at invasion time. Elizabeth would presumably have grown up among ruins from the war and be fiercely patriotic about Smolensk's heroism and very aware of being invaded. Tobolsk is smaller and more remote--it has a lot of history like once being first stop on your way to exile to Siberia and being the place where the czar and his family spent their last days before being transported to the place where they were murdered. It was once the capitol of Siberia but was then bypassed by the TransSiberian railroad--like the Bates Motel it became more remote when the highway moved. It's got that huge stone Kremlin.

 

So yeah, it seems like a really interesting place to choose that fits him. Smolensk is so connected to fighting and Russian heroism. Tobolsk is a lot more buried and forgotten. Technically they're not even from the same continent. 

[JennyMominFL]

If you want to read a good book about what life may have been like for Phillip as a child, I suggest Esther Hautzigs  The Endless Steppe. It a true story about the author, a young Lithuanian Jewish   girl whose entire family is shipped to Siberia at  the begining of WW2. It's an amazing, well written book that I read again as an adult.  ironically her family being shipped to Siberia saved her from the Holocausst. The ones that were not deported  died.

[sistermagpie]

Isn't it possible that Philip was the only one of his family to survive the siege of Leningrad and was then evacuated to live in an orphanage in Tobolsk?

 

Well, yeah, but it's also possible that Philip is from anyplace else and moved to Tobolsk or was evacuated there during the war as a small child. All we I think know for sure was that when he was about 9 he was living in Tobolsk and going alone to get milk and fighting off gangs. I'm not so sure how much skill it would take for him to make a plate for caviar in the Russian style--he was fixing it up nice for Elizabeth and understood the delicacy he was eating in ways Stan didn't. We don't yet have reason to believe that Philip is so much older than Elizabeth that he remembers the war more clearly. He seems to be claiming to be basically the same age as Elizabeth on his American passport.

Maybe I also just don't like that idea because it pings me as making Elizabeth even more special again by making her so much younger than everybody else.

 

Was Elizabeth from Moscow or do we know?

 

She's from Smolensk, one of the "hero cities." Major battle in 1941 and invaded earlier by Napoleon. Perfect city for Elizabeth! I would imagine it would have had a lot of ruins from the fighting in Elizabeth's childhood.

[gwhh]

Phillip getting down with his bad self from season 2:

 

http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/ksjs92uh774g22oisz97t1770ki3hhs2

Edited February 17, 2015 by gwhh

[sistermagpie]

This is actually what impresses me the most about Phillip as a spy.  As the show started I was rather blah about him, but as it has progressed, I am more and more impressed by his abilities, even if he is on the other side.  I have always found him much more able to play the "role" needed in this scenarios than Elizabeth.  He plays clark and now Jim so perfectly.  He seems to take on his characters and various personalities much easier than Elizabeth

Of course now it comes down to a question of how much of that is acting ability of the actor/actress and how much of it is just how we are supposed to view Phillip and Elizabeth as characters.  Most of it I think is how it is written and not the acting, but part of it is certainly just a great job by Matthew Rhys.

 

 

 

I remember hearing MR say once something about how he didn't want to play Philip as a great actor or a chameleon, exactly. More like Philip just told himself he just had to fool the person in front of him rather than give a great performance for the masses. Which seems like a really correct choice for the character. There is a difference between being an actor and being a spy.

 

I think also that's really consistent with the way the character's written in general. Even in scenes where he's Philip he seems written as a character who focuses a lot on the other person, looking for what they need and adjusting his reactions accordingly. So it makes sense to me that he seems to create these characters that are completely based on what this individual person would respond to. And it lets the audience still see Philip in all his scenes with him rather than completely feeling like we're just watching Matthew Rhys impress us with the different characters he can play, if that makes sense. Like I think he's obviously always playing Philip playing Clark etc. rather than playing them as two different characters.

 

Elizabeth also creates characters based on what the other person wants to an extent, but I think it's more general with her. Like she knows that somebody like Brad would respond to a woman getting over a rape and want to protect her, so she plays that. And to make it believable she reaches for the truth in herself and that makes the story convincing. She can still be brilliant in her own way doing that, but there's something less intimate about it. Less of a sense of her reaching into the person's mind and pulling out a fantasy character they want, one that might contain a few contradictions. Maybe there's also an echo of that in Dimebag where she pulls the "who wears the pants" comment to Philip when Philip is telling her the limits of his ability to simply get Martha, a complicated human being, to do what he wants. Not only does she suggest that the Westerfield marriage should follow some standard rules about husbands ruling wives, but she almost seems to think Philip will respond to being shamed as a man the way the men she manipulates are.

 

Philip's different from Elizabeth and Nina in that we rarely see him using his true life story to be more convincing--once in a while he'll say something that's obviously also referring to something really going on in his life at that moment, but for the most part his characters don't seem to be based around himself that much--especially his past. They're much more like reflections of the person he's playing for. And that seems again fitting with the way Philip never talks about his own real past at all, even when he's got obvious openings to do that, and why his character tends to get a lot of "who are you?" moments and looking at the mirror as if he's assessing a stranger. It really does read to me as a deep personality trait more than just acting ability--and very fitting for somebody who's a spy. I do think that aspect comes more naturally to him that it comes to her. Another reason why they make a good pair--his strengths and her strengths are different and compliment each other. Even if I assume KR and MR are equally talented as actors I feel like it would be wrong for Elizabeth to be as slippery as he is.

 

And I think the character does tend to fool the audience as well because of that. He comes across early on like he's the ordinary guy of the pair, but the more you watch the more you realize that he's actually potentially the more deeply weird of the two (they're both weird, but Elizabeth's weirdness is more straightforward, I think). He just spends a lot of time intentionally putting out the impression that there's nothing to see here, that he's just easygoing and non-threatening.

Edited February 24, 2015 by sistermagpie

[BW Manilowe]

Matthew talks with Yahoo! TV about his guest appearance on Archer, & Clark & Martha:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/matthew-rhys-archer-the-americans-114056112355.html

It's 1 of those pages where you have to click something like a "See More" link to finish reading the interview. My advice is to click closer to the small downward arrow, on the right, than the wording in the link. And click/press sort of firmly. It was a little tough to get the rest of it to "drop" when I was reading it on my iPhone; I had to be a little firmer than usual on my touchscreen to get to the part attached to the link.

I thought it was worth the effort to read it though.

[tara2r]

I just finished binge watching on Amazon,and I really hope we get more background on Philip next season!  I can't for the life of me figure out why someone as sensitive as he is would ever want to be a spy in the first place.

[PinkRibbons]

I've been rewatching season 3 and it's reminding me of something rather funny -- that the name Mischa is actually rather cuddly. And I mean almost literally cuddly, it's pretty much the Russian version of Teddy Bear (especially when it gets even more affectionate and becomes Mishka). Stuffed bears in the US are traditionally called Teddys after Teddy Roosevelt, but for some reason that I frankly don't understand, Russians tend call bears (Medved being the actual word) Mikhail, which gets shortened for the soft stuffed version into Mischa. In fact my best childhood friend will always insist her first word was "Mi" because she was trying to say "Mischka" as in, "give me my bear".

 

I wonder if the writers intentionally gave Philip a kind of sweeter name than Elizabeth or if they just liked the sound of Mischa and/or thought it seemed super-Russian. It's an interesting contrast to Nadezhda which, while an extremely popular name, can also have an ideological bent to it. I can so see her mother naming her the Russian equivalent of Hope with a kind of "hope for our glorious socialist future" slant to it.

[sistermagpie]

I can so see her mother naming her the Russian equivalent of Hope with a kind of "hope for our glorious socialist future" slant to it.

 

 

Wasn't it also the name of Lenin's wife? I definitely thought they were going for something patriotic-sounding there. Which would be in character given what we know of her mother.

 

I do think they put just this kind of thought into it. Not only is Mischa friendlier sounding, it's also more familiar to English-speaking ears (there are American Mishas, though some are girls!) and easy to say. (Btw, there's a Russian cartoon you might know that I LOVE called Masha and the Bear and she always refers to him as Mishka, naturally, so I do tend to associate that name with kids and hearing it yelled in a high little girl's voice.)

 

I thought it was definitely a choice, for instance, when Paige asked her parents for their names that Philip gave the easily understood and friendly sounding "Mischa" that Paige might find strange (just because it's hard to think of your dad as Mischa, which even sounds feminine to American ears, when he's always been Philip) while Elizabeth skips right over the more familiar Nadia and says something Paige tries and fails to even repeat.

 

Anyway, there's also something kind of funny about Philip's name being related to a bear, as in the Russian bear that Reagan used for his scary commercials, but more related to the teddy bear version. I don't think we've ever heard the name Mikail actually spoken by anybody.

[Umbelina]

I just finished binge watching on Amazon,and I really hope we get more background on Philip next season!  I can't for the life of me figure out why someone as sensitive as he is would ever want to be a spy in the first place.

He really wasn't given much of a choice of profession, honestly, no one was.

[sistermagpie]

Right. But he didn't just inform her that it worked differently in America. He went on to say that the Soviet system lacked transparency and basically flat out lied to its own people (unlike in America, in other words).

 

 

As I remember it he actually was just informing her that it worked differently. Part of that was that when Soviet leaders died they kept it secret for weeks before it was public, but his goal was preventing their own people from misunderstanding and starting trouble, not to make a case for US transparency or US superiority in general. (Even if he did think the transparency was better he could just want to improve his own society.)

 

I agree that Philip's just more of a closed book on this issue. To me, the times when he hints at his motivation is when he talks about seeing the world as full of bad people preying on good people and making them suffer wanting to do something to help (as he explained to Yousef before just giving up and admitting that he felt like shit all the time regardless of that). I guess I just see him more the way I'd see any burnt-out soldier. Maybe he no longer thinks what they're doing is working, but he hasn't switched sides. He's exhausted and has killed too many innocent people and wants to retire, but I don't see him having the added burden of thinking he's on the side of the wrong country in the struggle. 

 

The whole conflict of Capitalism vs. Communism and US Society vs. USSR Society tend to be, imo, incidental to the bigger conflict of ideals/cause vs. relationships/people. Elizabeth claims to prioritize the cause but I think she's rethinking that too wrt her own kids. Elizabeth and Claudia, the two biggest Soviet cheerleaders, see the cause as good for Paige because it gives her life purpose and meaning where American life is by definition without that. Philip feels like whatever he sacrifices the Centre wants more and doesn't want that for his kid. Doesn't mean he doesn't get what they mean, though.

 

Even when Philip's feeling totally disillusioned with the cause, America is still out to get them. They've chased him and Elizabeth and shot shot her. Most of his relationships are with Russians or Americans working for the cause--the only people not like that are his kids (who are his family) and the Beemans (and Stan would not consider him a friend if he knew the truth). He does see going back to the USSR as a workable option--the flaw in that plan being the kids being unable to live there rather than himself.

 

 

I think Philip was basically an orphan living on the street and fighting bigger kids for milk. The KGB offered him stability and he had a tallent for Spy craft. Elizabeth chose the line of work. Phillip fell into it because it was his best chance for survival.

 

 

 

I don't know if Elizabeth really chose it either. She was approached and went to her mother and mother told her to go so I don't know how much of a choice she felt like she had about being an Illegal, despite her belief in Soviet ideals. She owns it as a choice (as does Philip) but what else can she really do?

 

But even if Philip's childhood was harsh, that doesn't mean that he had no patriotism about it. His childhood would be totally connected in his mind to The Great Patriotic War. I am no expert on the Soviet mindset but it seems like somebody in that generation would have grown up with the idea of a shared struggle in that sense. He'd be one of tons of kids orphaned in the defense of the country. 

 

On the one hand, Philip just isn't a joiner from what I've seen imo. He's not like Paige and Elizabeth who want to throw themselves into whatever cause. He always seems to hang back and see other sides--that's why he can be so empathetic and understand "the enemy" and also be more objective about the flaws in his own leaders. But I don't see him as cynical at all either. He doesn't strike me at all as somebody who just saw this as his best meal ticket and always felt forced into it. In the past I think we saw him get satisfaction out of his work and frankly, it's hard for me to imagine Philip and Elizabeth as a real couple if Philip's that mercenary. Elizabeth herself accused him of being weak and seduced by American creature comforts, but he's defended himself against that. 

 

So I think while it's definitely possible (probably, I'd say) that the KGB manipulated him psychologically (not just in terms of giving him creature comforts but attention and the feeling of having a sort of family if he'd been an orphan) to me it seems like part of that manipulation is in helping others, since we see how sensitive he is to that. I don't think he is that manipulated by creature comforts despite enjoying them.

 

I think the showrunners even spoken about how the characters are not cynical, how there's a hopefulness in how they do things because they want to make things better. I just think Philip would be very different (and Elizabeth probably wouldn't love him) if he saw no good at all in his cause. To me it seems more like the tragedy is that he would still very much like to help people--we see him motivated by compassion and a desire to protect the weak a lot. But he doesn't see a light at the end of the tunnel anymore. 

[Umbelina]

I've read, and listened to, so many different versions of what it was like in the fifties and sixties in the Soviet Union as far as "choosing" your job. 

 

Everyone had to work, or they were considered a parasite.  "No work, no food."

 

Refusing certain jobs, especially within the decade + after the devastating WWII could be seen as treason.  This would be especially true of things like military/defense, so I would also assume that meant intelligence work.  Yes, you could refuse technically, but would you be able to get another job?

 

Much depended on your location, Moscow and Leningrad students had more of a choice, since often their parents were more connected. 

 

I know, for example, people about the age of Philip in the show, a few people who were simply "assigned" their jobs.  They've told me there was absolutely no choice, they were told what to do and that was it.  Refusing would have brought a world of trouble down on their heads, it just was not done.  One was forced into being a doctor, a job he detested and was not interested in, but better than working in the fields or in nuclear plants, etc.  (Ukraine area.) 

 

Anyway, every time I hear it implied that Philip and Elizabeth had a "choice" it just makes me wonder.  I think technically, maybe they did, given the delicacy of forcing people to work in a free area where presumably they could simply walk away, defect, no worry about not eating, or being thrown into an unheated gulag in the mines of Siberia to die for treason.  Although, who is to say what would have happened to them, or to their family, had they refused while still on Soviet soil? Elizabeth already had the taint of a "traitor" father, so she was obviously incredibly motivated AND carefully trained to be a loyal citizen. 

[sistermagpie]

Anyway, every time I hear it implied that Philip and Elizabeth had a "choice" it just makes me wonder.  I think technically, maybe they did, given the delicacy of forcing people to work in a free area where presumably they could simply walk. In real life according to one guy who was approached and did say no, saying no was definitely an option. He dropped out and there were no repercussions. But I don't think we can assume that Philip and Elizabeth had the same experience.

 

 

Yeah, it's hard to tell exactly how it works in this universe. But if you think about the kind of work they're doing I think they almost have to be doing it willingly. Not just because, as you say, they're not going to send somebody to a place where they can just defect if they don't think they're really on board. With Elizabeth they had her mother to threaten but with Philip we don't even know if he had that.

 

But the training has got to be so close--this is a tiny group of people that able to do this job. To be able to spy, to master all the spying things, the self-defense, the weapons and, most difficult, the language and the accents--the whole cover. There'd be a lot of time for them to flunk out of the program or just not be good enough. They wouldn't even have to be consciously throwing it to fail and nobody could really tell they weren't trying.

Edited April 6, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Yeah, that's because on this show, Philip and Elizabeth a jacks of all spy stuff though.  In real life, I think the spies were much more compartmentalized.  Philip and Elizabeth's cover would not be risked on field operations or killing people, but that show might not be as fun to watch.  Embedded spies would have their covers protected, and Arkady's group would be doing all the "mail robot" bug planting, and murdering of old women who just happened to work late. 

 

Philip and Elizabeth would be recruiting (as they have shown) but then, in many cases, turning those people carefully over to the Residentura to handle.  Obviously not with the honey-traps, like Martha and the teenager.  Arkady's group would also do the stuff like stealing missile plans.  From the few interviews we've seen, the spies that were embedded were not even given weapons training.  They weren't supposed to be in those situations.

 

I don't care though, it's too much fun on this show to have that stuff be used.

[sistermagpie]

I was talking to somebody about Philip's giant betrayal of not telling Elizabeth he de-wigged for Martha. (Only on The Americans does that sentence make sense.) I was saying how I really don't get why he kept that secret since professionally she needs that knowledge. It's the type of thing they really have to tell each other.

 

But at the same time, I really do love this consistent pattern of Philip's and I feel like it makes so much sense and is so consistent both for him and as a reason for Elizabeth to be insecure about him. What I mean is this: Philip keeps secrets. As frustrating as it is that we know practically nothing about his origins, it's part of his personality that he would never tell them. Even if he does mention his past he does it by giving away as little info as possible ("We used to have swordfights with [icicles]" as opposed to "When I was kid, at recess in the winter, we used to have sword fights with icicles" or "I used to have to get milk..." instead of "My mom sent me for milk..."). He's always checking on the other person's reaction, always deflecting attention back on the other person. Elizabeth, by contrast, is much more concrete and open about her past to the few people who can hear about it. When she wants to be understood, she'll communicate.

 

But I think there's also a deeper pattern here. I'm not psychologist but I feel like it's also a reaction to stress. Like where people are under stress and they have a behavior they go into--be it overeating, having a one-night stand, shopping more, whatever. I feel like Philip hoards secrets. He was already under stress at the end of last season and it turns out he not only has two secrets now but he *created* these secrets to keep. He went to EST not planning to tell. He de-wigged for Martha and didn't tell. Those secrets weren't forced on him.

 

And I actually get why it could be a soothing behavior for him. He talked about beating up (killing) the bully in EST as making him feel powerful and secrets can also feel powerful. Not in the same way of beating someone else but...you have something. If you grew up with nothing, a secret might be one of the few things of value that was your own. I can just easily imagine it somehow being comforting for him to have a secret even if it also brings more stress (lots of behaviors like this are self-destructive). Like it just feels safer to have a secret to escape to and hold onto?

 

I think if back in Martial Eagle he had been in an even worse place and had killed Pastor Tim, he would have kept that secret. 

 

He says he'd "be normal" if not for Elizabeth but even if they retired, he'd have stuff like this. Not as extreme, but he'd have stuff.

[Erin9]

The Midges has given me hope that we're finally going to find out about Philip's past. I hope it's really compelling after the long wait....and that it's soon. They've made it clear Philip really doesn't like to talk about his past. There must be a reason. 

It's interesting to me that it's been referenced several times that his father died when he was 6, but never how. There must be something to that. At least it's now confirmed it wasn't the war. I'd suspected as much, but now it's confirmed. I'm guessing the truth will be pretty tragic. And he's never so much as mentioned whether his mother is alive or dead. I've assumed she's  deceased since Philip's never mentioned communication with anyone, and his throughline is the importance of family. It seems like that's been a big deal to him all his life. IIRC, Irina didn't tell him she was pregnant because she thought his work for the state was more important- implication being though he'd put family first, and she knew it. Maybe we'll learn more about this when we get the details on his past. 

The poverty they showed him living in is heartbreaking. I really wonder what happened. I wondered about gulags when he said he was from Siberia. Russia is a big country, but they chose to have him from an area best known for banishment and imprisonment. Hmmm....

The curiosity is killing me. 

While I understand that part of the reason Elizabeth's past is focused on is you really need it to understand her, whereas Philip is more easily relatable just watching him, I really do want the details on his early life. 

[Umbelina]

I don't think Philip kept it a secret for much of any other reason than this.  Elizabeth would be pissed, she wouldn't trust his judgement that it was his only move, and it would be a hassle.  He firmly believed that was all he could do, and he trusted Martha.  Neither of those things would mean a damn thing to Elizabeth. 

She seemed to react more personally than professionally to that news.  She jumped to, and asked him if he'd prefer to live with simple, straight forward Martha, someone he could talk to. 

I really need to see screen shots of that place where his family was living. My screen was too dark, and I kept watching faces more than the surroundings!

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I really need to see screen shots of that place where his family was living. My screen was too dark, and I kept watching faces more than the surroundings!

One bit of information gleaned from IMDB about the scene, which I'll put under a spoiler tag:

Spoiler

The characters are listed in IMDB as Philip's father, Philip's mother, 6-year-old Philip and 8-year-old Pyotr. That other little boy must be 8 and named Pyotr. Sure sounds like a brother.

I was thinking again about those flashbacks and Elizabeth's and here's the other thing that occurred to me. There's the line in the premiere "Nothing scares those two." "Everything scares those two."

Both P&E are motivated by fear all the time, but what scares them most was probably programmed in early, which is why it still motivates them. With Elizabeth, the fear is the fear of surrender--as Zhukov said to her flat-out. That fear needed dialogue in flashbacks to explain. The scenes she remembers or talks about--her mother telling her gifts come with strings attached, her mother saying her father isn't honored because he was a coward, her mother telling her to go serve her country, her descriptions of Smolensk in ruins and wanting to be one of its defenders... It's all about that. That's not a complicated fear, but it is a slightly intellectual one.

When Philip and Elizabeth talk about Alexei, Elizabeth talks about being very aware of her mother sacrificing so she could eat--again, that theme of how you have to be willing to sacrifice. She always ate her food because she knew she was lucky to have it. She was very aware of the hardship. But she had the food. Her mother was a steady, if flawed, protective presence. Her apartment in flashbacks isn't shocking at all like Philip's was. So her experience of deprivation, it seems, was that food was hard to get and you had to be grateful for it--but there were also things that you didn't do to get it. Like her mother with the party official. Better to go with less food than get it that way.

Philip's story about food, in response to Elizabeth's, is about his mother serving soup that was really just hot water. In other words, in his story he doesn't really have the food. He's had two flashbacks to childhood. In one he's physically threatened by people who are stealing his food, and he winds up killing them to protect it and himself. In the other there's no story, it's just about the sensory experience of that abject poverty.

This makes sense with Philip's attitude toward America too. For him, you look for the place where you're safe and have your basic needs met. He'd adjust to life in Russia again, sure. He'd probably get really good at finding ways to get food or make do with the food he could get. But fear of not having food is probably a real motivation--the fear of physical danger. Turning down physical comfort isn't as noble to him as it is to Elizabeth. I think part of him can't believe this good life is going to last.

Philip's flashback also has three other people in it--they're not identified for sure but the tableau seems like that of a mother, father and two sons. We know dad died soon after this flashback, since Philip seems to be around 6. Philip has mentioned his mother, but not in the present tense. No references to any tapes she may have sent early on. Elizabeth says her own mother told her to go be an Illegal. Philip obviously disagrees with that decision as a parent (and as Elizabeth's husband) but he says nothing of his own mother's reaction. And if that other kid is his brother, this was our first hint that he even existed. So that scene not only shows what his life lacked, but showed everything valuable in it that he may have lost. Which again, would fit logically into his priorities: protect your family, keep them together, get food, get safety.

It's a different motivation from Elizabeth--but not one that's automatically out of sync with hers since Philip does seem to be able to see the Russian people as people to protect. If he lost his real family he could have started thinking like that in a really practical sense. But it would definitely explain his very different response to Alexei's rants. To Elizabeth he's whining, traitorously choosing what's easier over the purer righteousness of the cause. But to Philip "Why can't we grow our own wheat?" is one of the most important questions to ask as a Russian citizen. They have the land, they have the workers. If they're doing something wrong, why wouldn't they fix it? It's the essence of how socialism is supposed to work, right?

It also makes him even more of a parallel to Tuan who happily asks for leftovers from Bennigan's and lost his family. He lost his family to war, which kind of links him with both Jennings. The war deaths link him to the ruined Smolensk and her father dying in war, losing his entire family might link him to Philip.