S03.E01: Crazy In Love

[Christina]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:12 PM, IllLitShips said:

My issue is that people seem especially critical of the men who are Muslim as opposed to the other men.

The only time I've seen a Muslim man treated more critically  than the non-Muslims was Mo from Dani/Mo and that was from Muslims who got pissed about his lies of what he could and could not do during a never ending Ramadan. Danielle got it as bad because they were both trying to scam each other.

Omar has been spoken about more positively than a lot of these famewhores. I think he didn't have any idea of this show and the drama caused by production. 

The reason I'm critical of him has nothing to do with his religion. We are supposed to believe that he "accidentally" put his location as the US, immediately fell in love with an American girl who had been "a party girl" before converting a few weeks to a few months prior, depending on what you read, plans to marry her within days of first meeting and move her to Syria, his home country that is going through a civil war and people are literally dying to leave.

Just like Caeser's storyline is ripped from the Anastasia Scam, the Avery/Omar storyline is ripped from the ISIS Bride Scam. My faith in anything produced by Sharp Entertainment being real and true is practically zero and I don't expect that Avery ever had any intention of going to Syria, she's using it to get attention and television time. But it's the story we're being told and therefore, the story we are judging them on.

[IllLitShips]

12 hours ago, Christina said:

The only time I've seen a Muslim man treated more critically  than the non-Muslims was Mo from Dani/Mo and that was from Muslims who got pissed about his lies of what he could and could not do during a never ending Ramadan. Danielle got it as bad because they were both trying to scam each other.

Omar has been spoken about more positively than a lot of these famewhores. I think he didn't have any idea of this show and the drama caused by production. 

The reason I'm critical of him has nothing to do with his religion. We are supposed to believe that he "accidentally" put his location as the US, immediately fell in love with an American girl who had been "a party girl" before converting a few weeks to a few months prior, depending on what you read, plans to marry her within days of first meeting and move her to Syria, his home country that is going through a civil war and people are literally dying to leave.

Just like Caeser's storyline is ripped from the Anastasia Scam, the Avery/Omar storyline is ripped from the ISIS Bride Scam. My faith in anything produced by Sharp Entertainment being real and true is practically zero and I don't expect that Avery ever had any intention of going to Syria, she's using it to get attention and television time. But it's the story we're being told and therefore, the story we are judging them on.

In regards to Mo. He wasn't lying about not being able to kiss her while fasting. Having a wedding during the day during Ramadan was pretty dumb on both their ends. If Omar lied and he was really looking for an American and Avery and he are truly in love then what is the issue? We only just met Omar. For all we know this could all be Avery's idea to rush things and we don't know that because we only just met him.Which is my point and people have nasty assumptions that they immediately jump to. 

[Mothra]

6 minutes ago, IllLitShips said:

In regards to Mo. He wasn't lying about not being able to kiss her while fasting. Having a wedding during the day during Ramadan was pretty dumb on both their ends. If Omar lied and he was really looking for an American and Avery and he are truly in love then what is the issue? We only just met Omar. For all we know this could all be Avery's idea to rush things and we don't know that because we only just met him.Which is my point and people have nasty assumptions that they immediately jump to. 

I agree with you.  In fact, I think at the beginning, Mo really did try to make his relationship with Danielle work, and while I'm sure he was never physically attracted to her, that revulsion wasn't the problem.  She did not misrepresent only her appearance or suggest that she was wealthy (I'm guessing about the wealthy part; she probably at least allowed him to make assumptions); what tore it for him was her irresponsibility with money--and her lying to him about it.  I think that coming from a culture where the husband controlled the money, it was maddening to him that she would not manage her income more wisely--how many times were utilities cut off without Mohammed's having a clue that it was about to happen?  Add to that irresponsibility the fact that she *was* responsible for the well-being of her daughters, and it drove him nuts.  I think that Mohammed turned into the man I loved to hate only after he gave her chance after chance to let him help her straighten out her finances.  I think he went into this marriage with honorable intentions.

I think we have no reason at all to suspect Omar of being other than he seems, which is kind, handsome, and loving; nor do I think Avery is scamming him (in her eyes, any way) by her sudden conversion to his religion.  She apparently knows exactly what she's getting into, and they both are pretty clear that their goal is to get him into the US through a spousal visa.

But it is really funny--you have to admit--to ascribe Mohammed's distaste for Danielle to a perpetual Ramadan.  I mean, maybe it's in bad taste to use a holy time for a joke, but it's still funny as hell.

[RealReality]

The only thing that makes me give Omar the sideeye right now is that he'd allow Avery to stay in a war torn Syria for even a nanosecond because I don't think that's a reasonable position to put someone in that you say you love.  

Yes, she is 19 and has agency, but she clearly places a great deal of stock in his opinion and I think that if he put his foot down..... functionally she just couldn't go and she wouldn't go.

I can't be too upset over the dress, Avery asked him to come and requested his opinion.  It's not his fault that he was honest.  If mom didn't want omars opinion influencing the decision she should have refused to pay for the dress if Avery invited him. 

ETA: and yes, @Mothra, I too find "forever Ramadan "hilarious.

Edited August 24, 2019 by RealReality

[DaphneCat]

32 minutes ago, RealReality said:

The only thing that makes me give Omar the sideeye right now is that he'd allow Avery to stay in a war torn Syria for even a nanosecond because I don't think that's a reasonable position to put someone in that you say you love.  

Are we sure Omar knows that she plans to stay in Syria?  Yes, she says it in her talking heads but are we sure that this isn't just some romantic notion that she has about "love conquering all" or some such?  Since the plan is that she is going to come back to the US and start the K1 process maybe Omar doesn't even know that she plans to join him in Syria until it comes through.  He could just be assuming she'll stay there until they work something out.

[Mothra]

41 minutes ago, RealReality said:

The only thing that makes me give Omar the sideeye right now is that he'd allow Avery to stay in a war torn Syria for even a nanosecond because I don't think that's a reasonable position to put someone in that you say you love. 

I can't be too upset over the dress, Avery asked him to come and requested his opinion.  It's not his fault that he was honest.  If mom didn't want omars opinion influencing the decision she should have refused to pay for the dress if Avery invited him.

I have to agree with you about Omar's willingness to take Avery to Syria.  It's hard to understand, when so many people are desperate to leave, why he would want to take a young American woman into that war zone.  The only excuse that I can imagine is that we don't understand that there are pockets of safety there, and he knows how to keep her safe.  But who knows?

About the dress:  I don't think Avery was really upset about not getting the tight wedding dress (I personally--not a Muslim--thought it was inappropriately tight, but I watch SYTTD and I've certainly seen much less appropriate dresses!); I think it was her mother, who had counted on the traditional mother-daughter wedding dress shopping and didn't like the idea that the groom had veto power.  But I think both of them need to realize (and I think Avery does realize) just how scandalous a too-tight dress for what is after all a religious service would be, and I think Avery was very gracious in working up some enthusiasm for the looser dress, especially given that she is 19 years old.  I wish Rachel could take some lessons from Avery.

[Christina]

Regarding Mo and Dani, it was clear that he had unrealistic expectations about life in the US and she knew it but didn't say anything because she expected that he was going to be stuck with her for two years. If she lived in a McMansion and he had $1000 spending money a month, that relationship was still going to fail in an epic fashion because they are both awful in their own ways and were never going to mesh.

3 hours ago, IllLitShips said:

In regards to Mo. He wasn't lying about not being able to kiss her while fasting. Having a wedding during the day during Ramadan was pretty dumb on both their ends. If Omar lied and he was really looking for an American and Avery and he are truly in love then what is the issue? We only just met Omar. For all we know this could all be Avery's idea to rush things and we don't know that because we only just met him.Which is my point and people have nasty assumptions that they immediately jump to. 

I'm not making any nasty assumptions about Omar. It's the story Avery is telling us. They are playing the part of an ISIS Bride scam and we are commenting on it. 

It seems like everyone agrees that Omar is coming across as a good guy and most of us seem to think that Avery is pushing this story for attention. I certainly don't think she ever intended to go to Syria but she is telling us that is the plan and we are commenting on it. 

The negative comments are not because Omar is Muslim but because he plans on moving his new bride to a civil war zone. Sure it could be Avery's idea and I actually think she's making it up entirely, but we are being told that Omar is planning on moving her to Syria, because they are playing ISIS Bride for camera time, at least Avery is.

In my opinion, Avery is getting criticized much worse than Omar. He probably has no idea what he signed up for as far as this show goes and doesn't realize the story she's telling. There is a preview of an upcoming episode where her mom is asking him questions about the religion and he looks at her like she has two heads. I'm sure he was wondering what the hell he got himself into at that moment. Her mom is going to continue her part of being an ugly American, with not being willing to learn "Please" and "Thank You" in another language and asking ignorant questions about Islam. Omar will continue to come across as a good guy.

[Gigglepuff]

On 8/6/2019 at 10:02 PM, PrimeTuner said:

In the same vein, many Americans and other westerners who may be qualified as engineers, doctors and other professionals end up becoming English teachers in Asia, jobs they are overqualified for.

How are people who are engineers, doctors etc...overqualified to be English teachers? If they're not a teacher with a bachelors (and possibly a specialty in teaching English as a foreign language), then they'd actually be under-qualified. 

[IllLitShips]

7 hours ago, Mothra said:

I agree with you.  In fact, I think at the beginning, Mo really did try to make his relationship with Danielle work, and while I'm sure he was never physically attracted to her, that revulsion wasn't the problem.  She did not misrepresent only her appearance or suggest that she was wealthy (I'm guessing about the wealthy part; she probably at least allowed him to make assumptions); what tore it for him was her irresponsibility with money--and her lying to him about it.  I think that coming from a culture where the husband controlled the money, it was maddening to him that she would not manage her income more wisely--how many times were utilities cut off without Mohammed's having a clue that it was about to happen?  Add to that irresponsibility the fact that she *was* responsible for the well-being of her daughters, and it drove him nuts.  I think that Mohammed turned into the man I loved to hate only after he gave her chance after chance to let him help her straighten out her finances.  I think he went into this marriage with honorable intentions.

I think we have no reason at all to suspect Omar of being other than he seems, which is kind, handsome, and loving; nor do I think Avery is scamming him (in her eyes, any way) by her sudden conversion to his religion.  She apparently knows exactly what she's getting into, and they both are pretty clear that their goal is to get him into the US through a spousal visa.

But it is really funny--you have to admit--to ascribe Mohammed's distaste for Danielle to a perpetual Ramadan.  I mean, maybe it's in bad taste to use a holy time for a joke, but it's still funny as hell.

I think Mo did want things to work with Danielle, too! I do think it's funny to joke about him extending Ramadan to avoid his husbandry duties. 

3 hours ago, Christina said:

Regarding Mo and Dani, it was clear that he had unrealistic expectations about life in the US and she knew it but didn't say anything because she expected that he was going to be stuck with her for two years. If she lived in a McMansion and he had $1000 spending money a month, that relationship was still going to fail in an epic fashion because they are both awful in their own ways and were never going to mesh.

I'm not making any nasty assumptions about Omar. It's the story Avery is telling us. They are playing the part of an ISIS Bride scam and we are commenting on it. 

It seems like everyone agrees that Omar is coming across as a good guy and most of us seem to think that Avery is pushing this story for attention. I certainly don't think she ever intended to go to Syria but she is telling us that is the plan and we are commenting on it. 

The negative comments are not because Omar is Muslim but because he plans on moving his new bride to a civil war zone. Sure it could be Avery's idea and I actually think she's making it up entirely, but we are being told that Omar is planning on moving her to Syria, because they are playing ISIS Bride for camera time, at least Avery is.

In my opinion, Avery is getting criticized much worse than Omar. He probably has no idea what he signed up for as far as this show goes and doesn't realize the story she's telling. There is a preview of an upcoming episode where her mom is asking him questions about the religion and he looks at her like she has two heads. I'm sure he was wondering what the hell he got himself into at that moment. Her mom is going to continue her part of being an ugly American, with not being willing to learn "Please" and "Thank You" in another language and asking ignorant questions about Islam. Omar will continue to come across as a good guy.

Why do you think it is an ISIS bride scam? That's what I am not getting. I haven't heard him mention any affiliation with ISIS and I can't recall Avery saying anything about aspiring to be in ISIS.

[iwasish]

On 8/21/2019 at 9:38 PM, nytonc said:

Yes I am making negative assumptions. Too bad her mother didn’t. I’ll agree he is probably not a member of ISIS. What I’m concerned about is the stupidity of an American girl and her mother to travel to Lebanon, where there is a recent travel advisory, to meet a guy she knows next to nothing about. Omar could be the greatest guy in the world but Lebanon and Syria are no place for Americans, especially women, these days. The culture is not woman-friendly. 

Because  he thinks she converted and is therefore more committed to the religion, he may be even more demanding in her adherence to as she says “ the culture”

The fact that she has already told her friends that their arguments are mostly about her not being “modest enough” and that he “isn’t  happy”about her “past”, waves many red flags. Let’s see his reaction the first time she doesn’t lower her eyes or in his opinion is “too familiar”with another man.

Avery says she was a wild child prior to converting, liked to push the envelope and do crazy things. In her head she believes she’s no longer that person. In reality, she is. She may not be partying, sexually active and out of control, but she’s converted to an unfamiliar religion, engaged to someone she’s nevet met face to face and loving  that she’s shocking people with her “not so secret” secret about moving to Syria. I’d say that pretty “wild child” behavior.

And really nice of her friend and her folks to keep that secret. Isn’t the decent thing to do contact Avery’s mom and let her know? They know she is keep it from her mom. Very uncool IMO. 

[Christina]

On 8/24/2019 at 3:52 PM, IllLitShips said:

Why do you think it is an ISIS bride scam? That's what I am not getting. I haven't heard him mention any affiliation with ISIS and I can't recall Avery saying anything about aspiring to be in ISIS.

I haven't been around for a while, but wanted to respond to this comment even though it is old now. It was in response to a comment that I made about Avery and Omar playing the part of the ISIS bride scam. 

TL/DR: In my opinion, Avery and Omar do not actually have any link to ISIS and likely no future plans to join, but the show is editing their story to make it look like it and they have (possibly unwittingly) played the part of ISIS bride. Avery probably thought her story would come across as their love being so strong that she would move to a country in an active civil war, because that's how the producers would play up the talking heads to her. 

***

I do not think Omar is in ISIS nor do I think that Avery wants to be a part of ISIS. I think it's the storyline and script they are playing to be a part of this shit show. I'm not even sure that I think Omar knows he's playing a part; he seems to think they are telling their story. Avery, on the other hand, is acting out her part.

Caesar is playing the part of someone scammed by the Anastasia bride scam, which is so well known now that no one with internet access could possibly be mislead unless they want to be, and the ISIS bride scam has been in the news for several months now. Avery contacts the show with her story of converting to Islam, meeting Omar, and planning to get married. Sharp Entertainment wouldn't find that trashy enough, so they ask her to say she is going to live in Syria with him, even though their plan has always been to bring him to the US. I really don't think she intended to ever live in Syria.

So, Avery discusses the big secret of not telling her family about her plans to move to Syria, causing viewer discussion of her being foolish and likely to find herself married to a 60-year-old man as his fourth wife to pop out babies every year (the ISIS bride scam). It was successful because people have been discussing how naive and dumb she is coming across. Her Arabic is apparently crappy, too, and there have been comments about her prayer (that was filmed) being incorrect and that she is not part of a local mosque in Columbus.  So, she has successful got people talking.

I think Avery's mom is coming across the worst in the Avery/Omar storyline, but also think it is scripted. There is absolutely nothing that Sharp Entertainment produces that is not storyboarded and semi scripted. They tell someone like Avery that her story is somewhat interesting but want her to play up the cultural differences and risks, then edit the footage to make it look like something it is not, and the people who want to be on television or, in Avery's case, need the show to pay for her plane ticket and hotel rooms, play along not realizing how the footage is going to be twisted until they see it aired. Every season cast members bitch about how they were portrayed because they just can't see how bad it will come across while they are actually filming. 

[Mothra]

12 hours ago, Christina said:

I think Avery's mom is coming across the worst in the Avery/Omar storyline, but also think it is scripted. There is absolutely nothing that Sharp Entertainment produces that is not storyboarded and semi scripted. They tell someone like Avery that her story is somewhat interesting but want her to play up the cultural differences and risks, then edit the footage to make it look like something it is not, and the people who want to be on television or, in Avery's case, need the show to pay for her plane ticket and hotel rooms, play along not realizing how the footage is going to be twisted until they see it aired.

I think you're absolutely right.  It would explain weird stuff like Avery's mother suddenly so interested in helping Avery get married, when everything before then would expect a viewer to believe she would be happy if the wedding could not take place.  It's hard sometimes to remember that it's all fiction.

[SG11]

On 8/5/2019 at 11:19 PM, RealReality said:

It's possibly a kit car.  I can't remember how I learned about it....maybe because Jorge had one.  Anyways you get a normal sports car and you use this kit to convert it to look like a Lamborghini.

I think a lot of times they use them in movies so they aren't really demolishing $150k cars.  And guys who want to look fancy also use them....because they want to look like a baller on a beer budget.

OK, I just started watching this season and the comments on Tim’s car are getting weirder and weirder, so I have to comment. The “small penis” one is the worst. News Flash, some people like nice cars.

Im heavily into cars and I’m not apologetic about it. Tim is driving an early 2000’s Ferrari 360 Spyder. These cars did not change much at all over their run and the later versions (it might even be one) isn’t much different looking. I was shopping for a used Ferrari early in 2019 which is about right for the timeline here.

It’s absolutely not a kit car. It’s not Lamborghini unattainable level either. I saw a car just like Tim’s, same color at the Barrett Jackson auction in Jan 2019 and it sold for mid $80s. TheY can cost a bit more, usually in better colors. I think the silver hurts the car; that’s  why I didn’t buy it. I bought an even older Ferrari, a red 308. These cars are fun to own until you have to fix them. But Tim looks like he was going for as much bang for his buck in driving around in a car people think is much more expensive than it is. The car isn’t much more expensive than some loaded trucks you see in the road every day.