Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Final Countdown

[Trisha]

In this one, KC mentions multiple times that Oliver teams up with an "unexpected ally" (and seems to imply it's her), so I'm not sure if it's happening, but she sure seems to think it is.

Also, SA says he got "pitched the entire crossover" 5 mins before this interview and then later when asked if Arrow has a happy ending he says "Maybe. People don't like finales. I like finales. I liked the Seinfeld finale, I loved the Game of Thrones finale. And people will be mad at this finale but it could be a happy ending.  [pauses and looks like he's thinking] Actually, I just got pitched it. It actually is a happy ending. That's neat. Sorry." 

[Trisha]

SA mentioned that ep 1 would be a tribute to season 1, and ep 2 would be a tribute to season 3, so this title makes sense. Also, I tend to like Sara Tarkoff (she wrote "Reversal").

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Trisha said:

In this one, KC mentions multiple times that Oliver teams up with an "unexpected ally" (and seems to imply it's her), so I'm not sure if it's happening, but she sure seems to think it is.

I wouldn't be surprised. In the TVLine interview Matt Mitovich asked Katie what Laurel was up to and she said she liked to say that Laurel was on her own island, on her own journey. Matt said "she's a lone wolf," and she said yes.

Then Stephen interrupted and told her that she wasn't, that she had a team member in the premiere. She looks to him and starts to say who it is, but then asks him if it's been revealed and he says no, and she says, "Somebody who we can't mention." That made me think it was a guest star they didn't want to reveal, but it could very well be Oliver. Who knows with her. 

[Chaser]

I thought she was talking about a guest star too. But that would explain why she’s so giddy about the season and why MG is responding to KC fans like he is.

Given tho that DR hasn’t mentioned her and neither has the Monitor, I wonder if the Team up is just for the premiere. Like E2 is the first stop, they pick her up and such and then at the end of the episode they leave her on E1 (with her Canary storyline).

I realized something else in that interview. They were supposed to announce her directing at the panel and SA spoiled it there. I would be annoyed if I was her. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Chaser

[Featherhat]

If Episode 1 is a tribute to season 1 I can see them teaming up "like it was supposed to be" in the original pitch, I can't see it for the whole season with the island remark. Also she might team up with an unannounced guest star as well? I can't see why they can't "hype" that they're working together. I hope it's not for long they still have anti chemistry on screen and that will be a slog. It makes sense if E2 is the first stop just from a general perspective and so she can get back to Dinah.

And people will be mad at this finale but it could be a happy ending.  [pauses and looks like he's thinking] Actually, I just got pitched it. It actually is a happy ending. That's neat. Sorry." 

Well I'm hoping it's a decently direct follow up to the finale scenes of 7x22, given that was also very series finale-y. But I guess he's right, a lot of finales tend to be some of the more debated episodes. With the exception of HIMYM, that one was so bad it got it's spin off shelved. 

Of course his happy ending could be Oliver dying in the knowledge that everyone he loved is safe, though that's more bittersweet. It doesn't sound like it's deliberately going to be set out to be controversial.

But I thought he had known how Arrow was going to end for a few months? Though DR also got pitched Diggle's crossover stuff at the same time.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Featherhat

[statsgirl]

I don't think GA and BC can team up for long because they're honoring each season by season and to have them together all the time obviates what the other seasons were.

KC is fond of drawing the parallels between Oliver and Laurel. I remember that in s2 she said that Laure's drinking was her island.

[Trisha]

19 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

But I thought he had known how Arrow was going to end for a few months? Though DR also got pitched Diggle's crossover stuff at the same time.

Yeah, he says he just got pitched the "entire crossover" and seems to imply that by knowing that, he thinks Arrow has a happy ending. My guess is that the end of the crossover does something (reverses the flash forwards? or at least reverses Oliver's death?) and that knowledge makes him think Arrow ends happily.

I wouldn't be surprised if they played out the crossover like Infinity War/Endgame. The first three episodes before the winter break are Infinity War-style with everything bad they've foreshadowed happening (Oliver dying, Barry disappearing), but then the two crossover eps in the new year are about the remaining team coming up with a "fix it." 

[Featherhat]

22 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

KC is fond of drawing the parallels between Oliver and Laurel. I remember that in s2 she said that Laure's drinking was her island.

Well it was supposed to be. She certainly was in her own little storyline that had nothing to do with anyone else's. Trouble was we were seeing Oliver and Sara go through literal hell on the Island so seeing someone have a breakdown over their boyfriend's death and go through a short spiral but behave awfully through it, did not do the character any favours. Ah well, we'll see.

23 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Yeah, he says he just got pitched the "entire crossover" and seems to imply that by knowing that, he thinks Arrow has a happy ending. My guess is that the end of the crossover does something (reverses the flash forwards? or at least reverses Oliver's death?) and that knowledge makes him think Arrow ends happily.

Yeah I thought he'd been pitched what happens before now, but obviously not completely. COIE will obviously change things but would they really spend the season building the FF team to wipe them out of existence or at least change them? I'm still that he actually dies then something happens and he goes to the pocket paradise dimension or whatever and then Felicity joins him and they both know the kids have got this and each other. 

I'd be surprised if they didn't do Infinity War/End Game in some way.

[Chaser]

29 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I don't think GA and BC can team up for long because they're honoring each season by season and to have them together all the time obviates what the other seasons were.

KC is fond of drawing the parallels between Oliver and Laurel. I remember that in s2 she said that Laure's drinking was her island.

Yeah, I don't think its going to a season long thing (I think Diggle and the Monitor are going to be the only consistent partners). Oliver teaming up with Laurel in the first episode makes sense if they are 'honoring' the first season. With Tommy coming back (possibly as the Dark Archer), they get the GA / BC v DA that was originally planned.

Since Siren was Felicity's BFF, I can even see that Felicity-centric moment being a conversation between Oliver and Siren.

[statsgirl]

29 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Yeah I thought he'd been pitched what happens before now, but obviously not completely. COIE will obviously change things but would they really spend the season building the FF team to wipe them out of existence or at least change them?

Or COIE changes the present and Oliver gets to go home with Felicity and raise and train Mia himself so she still becomes a vigilante, just not one who learned on the streets. Maybe they get a Lucas too.

Oliver and Felicity get joint custody of William and Felicity teaches him all her tech tricks. Still the same possibility for Team Arrow Offspring in the future but they just got there differently.

[Featherhat]

I certainly wouldn't mind any of that, but that greatly depends on whether or not they can get EBR back and that doesn't seem that likely unless they're just flat out lying again of course. 

25 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Since Siren was Felicity's BFF, I can even see that Felicity-centric moment being a conversation between Oliver and Siren.

I can see that. Well it won't be as cringy (hopefully) as Laurel hoping Olicity get back together and declaring her love for him one after the other on her death bed at least. 

[way2interested]

54 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I certainly wouldn't mind any of that, but that greatly depends on whether or not they can get EBR back and that doesn't seem that likely unless they're just flat out lying again of course. 

She's got no plans so far post-Reborning and still has her apartment in Vancouver, I'd say it's just about even in terms of chances in coming back and they are hedging their bets.

[Trisha]

13 hours ago, Featherhat said:

I certainly wouldn't mind any of that, but that greatly depends on whether or not they can get EBR back and that doesn't seem that likely unless they're just flat out lying again of course. 

SA was being pretty cagey (likely because he doesn’t like spoilers or want to get hopes up), but MG’s remarks about how they would be reaching out to her soon and “conversations would be had” to bring her back made me hopeful. Unless she really, really doesn’t want to do it or scheduling is an issue, looks like the show wants her back. Maybe instead of the xover and finale, it’ll be the final two eps to deal with whatever the xover changes.

Meanwhile it sounds like they are recreating stunts from 101. Maybe Oliver is watching Chase live out a version of his life?

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

Meanwhile it sounds like they are recreating stunts from 101. Maybe Oliver is watching Chase live out a version of his life?

That would be interesting, more so than a standard redo for the sake of it. 

1 hour ago, Trisha said:

SA was being pretty cagey (likely because he doesn’t like spoilers or want to get hopes up), but MG’s remarks about how they would be reaching out to her soon and “conversations would be had” to bring her back made me hopeful. Unless she really, really doesn’t want to do it or scheduling is an issue, looks like the show wants her back. Maybe instead of the xover and finale, it’ll be the final two eps to deal with whatever the xover changes.

I hope so, though I'm keeping my expectations low just in case. I hope if she doesn't want to/can't they can work around it and give them a happy ending ala what we think 7x22 was about. I expect if she does come back we'll hear about her being in Van, although that's not a definite given she's a local. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Featherhat

[tv echo]

Video associated with TVLine article previously posted upthread - I only transcribed a few Arrow-related comments, so you may want to watch his entire interview...

'Arrowverse 'Crisis' Crossover Q&A: LaMonica Garrett
Published on Jul 23, 2019, by TVLine

-- LMG: "Everything the Monitor does is to serve the Crisis purpose. So, he's morally ambiguous, so you really can't take anything he does as, like, oh, that's evil or that's good. He has his own way, and his ways aren't our ways. So when he does something that might look out of line, maybe to human beings it might look out of line, but he operates on a whole different palette. It could be, you know, in the grand scheme of things, hindsight, you look back, like, oh, he needed to put that person there. So the more it unfolds out, the more we'll see, and that's the fun part... In the comic books, he wasn't evil, but he just - he did bad things for a better purpose."

-- On Oliver being a substitute for Harbinger, LMG: "It could be... It could be, and that's - you know, part of me was like, is the Monitor serving double duty to the Anti-Mon - like, there's two in one? But who knows?"

-- On whether the Monitor will be on Arrow a meaningful amount since he grabbed Oliver at the end of last season, LMG: "You know, the Monitor jumps around. But I think, with Arrow specifically, since they struck a deal together, on Arrow the Crisis has already started. It's Arrow and Monitor, like, you know, globe-trotting and trying to.... (Interviewer: "So it might be like a little bit of a buddy cop thing going on?") ... Eh, you know, that'll be - that's funny, Arrow and Monitor, like... (Interviewer: "The two most serious buddy cops ever.") ... Right. I'll bring the beef jerky, you got the chips."

Edited July 24, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow SDCC 2019 Final Season Panel
Published on Jul 22, 2019, by Matthew Mendez
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xE_zwkuorM

-- On whether there's any news about the Diggle family tree, MG: "Yes, there is... Let's talk about the Diggle family tree, because, you know, it's gotten bigger. Um, you now, there's this Connor Hawke, who, you know, we established last year Diggle adopted. Um, and then, of course, there's JJ, who originally was Sara and then became JJ because of Flashpoint. (Audience reaction, plus DR: "Damn you, Barry.") We'll talk about that later. I have opinions. But, um, that JJ, he's grown up. Um, and we've actually cast the adult version of him because, uh, we are, of course, dealing with the future now. " Mod: "Okay. And he is?" MG: "I'm going to let you answer that." Mod: "So it's Charlie Barnett?" MG: "Yes, yes. And Charlie - probably the sweetest guy." Mod: "Charlie from Russian Doll." MG: "Yes. And a wonderful gentleman who is so sweet, his character - I don't want to spoil anything, but his character has a bit of an edge to him. And when Charlie read, I was like, he's - he's too nice. Does he -? He doesn't have any edge. But then he can bring it, he can really bring it. And he's awesome, and I - you know, I think people are going to be really surprised about the way we bring him in, um, the way Charlie's character comes into the show and what he does and particularly what costume he wears. He wears a very specific costume that is, uh, not what anyone's expecting."

-- JBamford: "I just got off the plane. We were shooting all night last night... Last night, Thursday night, every night this week, we've shot sequences that we didn't think we were capable of before, um, in action and the actors who are coming to set - I tweeted this last week - If they don't win an Emmy for what we've done this week, every one of this people on the cast, there's something wrong. They're all bringing it. Uh, I've never been so impressed with the performances that we're getting, uh, from in - during the action, during the emotional scenes, uh, period, the size and the scope of the - just the premiere that we're doing right now is nothing like we've done before. And that's the truth. We're very, very proud. And I can't wait for you to see 801. It's incredible."

-- On the recent breaking news that the COIE crossover will have two Supermans, MG: "Brandon is - he's going to play Superman in the crossover. He's also going to play Ray Palmer... Certainly, Brandon, you know, being Superman, being Clark Kent, um, being in the Daily Planet, um, it's going to be amazing."

-- On the COIE crossover, MG: "The whole goal with the crossover is, like, we try to come up with, like, a hundred great things to do, and even if we get to do 50 of them, we're still doing 50 great things. Like, it's really how many amazing moments can we pack into it."

(Brandon Routh joined the Arrow panel at this point.)

-- On whether BR will wear the Superman Returns costume, MG said that that original costume is in the Warner Brothers archives and therefore can't be used for the COIE crossover, but that they're still figuring it out. BR: "I thought that might be a problem... I have an idea." BR then stood up, unbuttoned his shirt and revealed his Superman suit underneath (the one in the previously posted pics). MG: "That's a pretty good pitch. You know what? I think we're going to do that."

-- On whether it will take longer for fans to recover from the Arrow series finale than from the Game of Thrones series finale, SA: "I'm not the right person to answer this question. I loved the last season of Game of Thrones. (Some boos from audience) Oh, I love all finales. If you all hate our finale, I'll know we've done a good job. (Audience reaction) No, no, uh - I - no, uh - Marc and I were talking earlier. Arrow has a happy ending. (Audience reaction) You know when I tell you guys what happens on the show, and I tell you in plain sight, you just don't hear me."

Edited July 24, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

These two videos recorded the same SA interview...

Stephen Amell discusses Arrow's final season at San Diego Comic Con
Published on Jul 22, 2019, by Nerds and Beyond

SDCC 2019: 'Arrow' Stephen Amell Interview
Published on Jul 22, 2019, by Fangirlish

-- On the final season, SA: "I mean, it'd be too simplistic to say that we're going to play our greatest hits, but that is kinda what we're doing... We're playing our greatest hits."

-- SA: "I feel like in the first - in the first three episodes, Oliver has closure with five characters that I don't know that we ever thought that he would get closure with, in very unexpected ways. Maybe they don't know it, but he knows it. And, um, he's left a lot of loose ends along the way, and I hope that over the course of the year, we're going to tie as many up as possible."

-- On much influence he will have over the way that Oliver's story concludes, SA: "A lot. A lot. We talked about it for a long time. Um, I was very, very, uh, - very, very grateful. A lot of the end of 722 and the fact that it ended with Emily, uh - a lot of that was my pitch. Uh, I thought that - you know, we had to - we had to write that episode like we're never going to see her character again. Okay, so, jumping off from that, if we think that we're never going to see her character again, well, you better give her a good good-bye. Okay? You better - you better wrap that up. And I thought that it was cool that, you know, 'cause we may never see her again - I thought it was cool for the fans to realize, okay, well, like, somewhere out there, they're good."

Edited July 24, 2019 by tv echo

[way2interested]

Quote

 I think people are going to be really surprised about the way we bring him in, um, the way Charlie's character comes into the show and what he does and particularly what costume he wears. He wears a very specific costume that is, uh, not what anyone's expecting."

This quote weirdly enough annoyed me so much, because s7 already told us. He's the leader of the Deathstroke gang. And then in the s8 trailer there's a Deathstroke. It isn't surprising if you watch the show. Maybe he meant there's something else going on and that actually isn't JJ, but ugh this was already told to us.

[tv echo]

I really don't think they're going to reverse the current ending. I think the 20-year separation will remain. My current speculation is...

Both Oliver and Barry have been told by the Monitor that they're going to die. Oliver does 'die" in the crossover. But TH's Clark sacrifices himself to save Barry and Clark 'dies' instead of Barry.*

(* Since WB is rebooting Batman on the big screen with Robert Pattison, I think it likely that they'll be rebooting Superman as well with a different actor, in which case, I can see them wanting Superman off the small screen.)

As far as Earth is concerned, both Oliver and Clark are dead. However, to reward them, the Monitor takes them both to a pocket universe to live. Clark is allowed to take Lois and their child with him immediately. However, Oliver is not allowed to take Felicity and Mia with him right away, because Mia is too important to Earth's future - and she has to grow up the way she did in order to acquire the skills and character to be that future hero. (William cannot go because he's already 15 at this point and has grandparents and friends that he would have to leave behind.) However, the Monitor promises to give Felicity a choice to go reunite with Oliver once Mia is grown up and has teamed up with William. (Alternatively, Felicity receives the offer but decides to honor her promise to Oliver to take care of their kids first, so she delays her departure.)

Edited July 24, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

From SA talking about EBR's send off there, it doesn't sound like they're looking at changing anything. Unless Emily agrees to come back for a couple of episodes and they say "fuck it!" I guess. That all sound well thought out @tv echo 

This whole COIE feels too bloated and complicated to keep track of for the Arrowverse, they were already going that way in Elseworlds for me.

58 minutes ago, way2interested said:

This quote weirdly enough annoyed me so much, because s7 already told us. He's the leader of the Deathstroke gang. And then in the s8 trailer there's a Deathstroke. It isn't surprising if you watch the show. Maybe he meant there's something else going on and that actually isn't JJ, but ugh this was already told to us.

Maybe DR doesn't remember that part? I think he has to be referencing JJ because what's more theoretically surprising for Diggle's son than that? Except being a common storytelling cliché I mean. 

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Maybe DR doesn't remember that part? I think he has to be referencing JJ because what's more theoretically surprising for Diggle's son than that? Except being a common storytelling cliché I mean. 

MG said that, which makes it way worse, and my point is that it isn't even theoretically surprising, because they already told us this in 719. It would be like teasing 714 with "no one will expect Mia's connection with William and the team" even though 713 ended with that reveal already, which was also a cliche so that's moot.

Edited July 24, 2019 by way2interested

[Featherhat]

Oops, I didn't see the name initials. Yeah it's bad if they aren't teasing something completely different than Deathstroke, but maybe since he wasn't involved as much last season.....Ok I've got nothing. I can't really see what else it could be. Especially because if there's no issues between them then where does that story go? And Arrow has never been subtle at sibling issues, they seemed to want to mirror John and Andy. 

[tv echo]

Arrow - Katie Cassidy Interview, Season 8
Published on Jul 22, 2019, by ShowbizJunkies

-- On which Laurel she is now, KC: "I know, right? [Unintelligible word] still trying to figure that out. Um, we are as if the Laurel never died. So, she still went through everything she went through. She still got that sass - that little edgy sassiness, because she's gone through a lot of shit. Um, so that's the, uh, version that you're seeing. I also have a new costume. I'm not sure if you guys have seen - uh, we were going to show it on the panel but we ran out of time. It is so dope. It is so cool... But out of all the costumes, I mean, it's fantastic."

-- KC: "Also, I'm directing episode 803."

-- On whether there's a story she's been waiting to tell that she might be able to do in episode 803, KC: "Uh, yes, but I can't answer what story it is, because it's that big [unintelligible words] episode. I can't spoil it... You'll just have to watch my episode."

-- On what's on her Laurel bucket list, KC: "I was saying to them, like, I think I should do the salmon ladder, uh, the salmon ladder, because  everybody else - I mean, I think Caity Lotz is the only girl who's done it,* but it's all about, uh - it's like a swinging thing. You kinda have a technique that you have to get down. And I used to be a competitive gymnast, and the bars - there's a lot of [kicking? kipping? clipping?] involved... I was just saying to Bam, 'Can I do the - like, why can't we just [write me in on a line? ride me in on a line?] and I'll try it?' He was like, 'Can you do it?' I was like, 'I don't know, but maybe.' So can you imagine if this whole time, I had never tried it and the first time I do it, I'm like (Mimes going up and down the salmon ladder with her hands quickly, while saying, 'do do do do do') ... And they're like, 'why haven't we done it?' ... I don't know. We'll see. It could be a disaster... It'd be cool, though, if we could do it. That would be awesome."

(* Actually, EBR as Felicity did the salmon ladder, albeit not well and only with Oliver's help.)

-- On whether there's a chance that we could see Laurel appear down the road on LoT, KC: "Um, I would love that, 'cause I love - I mean, Caity Lotz is one of my closest friends." KC mentioned that CL also did the WB directors program.

Edited July 24, 2019 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

10 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I was just saying to Bam, 'Can I do the - like, why can't we just [write me in on a line? ride me in on a line?] and I'll try it?' He was like, 'Can you do it?' I was like, 'I don't know, but maybe.' So can you imagine if this whole time, I had never tried it and the first time I do it, I'm like (Mimes going up and down the salmon ladder with her hands and says, 'do do do do do') ... And they're like, 'why haven't we done it?' .

At first I thought she was talking about BS doing it, which would be an interesting moment in terms of the story. But I think she's referring to herself, Katie. And I'm wondering why she doesn't learn how to do it first and after she knows she can do it, then approach the writers about writing it into the show for her.

[Featherhat]

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

(* Actually, EBR as Felicity did the salmon ladder, albeit not well and only with Oliver's help.)

Felicity was supposed to be failing miserably but EBR hanging there showed how strong and toned she is.

I remember KC always going on about the Salmon ladder before and thought it was weird it was such a fixation for her and if it is, why not learn it and surprise the cast/crew/writers with your skills?

I thought she was referring to BS doing it at the beginning, which made me wonder if she could doing in it in the bunker with either the SC crew or Oliver/Diggle when they use the bunker to travel between earths or some Salmon ladder-y type stunt during a fight scene. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by Featherhat

[insomniadreams88]

40 minutes ago, tv echo said:

we are as if the Laurel never died.

I have such a problem with this mainly because it showcases how differently Arrow and The Flash treat (some) doppelgangers. Each Harrison Wells is very different, including the E1 and E2 versions. But Arrow acts like E1 and E2 LL could’ve basically been exactly the same and may very well start treating them as such. The two Laurels could be very different and still both be good. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't know if Katie's assessment of the Laurel situation is correct. She talks about E-2 Laurel being just like E-1 Laurel: The Laureling, but then goes on to say she's still got that "edgy sassiness" which was what made E-2 Laurel stand out in the first place. I think she's just going with that because we're going to see E-2 Laurel as a Black Canary - I think she only really cares about getting that name, and thinks that's all E-1 Laurel was, so if they both have the moniker then they're the same person.

As a related aside, there's a longer version of one of her table interviews where she mentions her new costume so many times that when one of the journalists asks her what she's going to miss most about Arrow he adds, "Aside from the costume." LOL

Edited July 25, 2019 by apinknightmare

[Angel12d]

Greetings all! It's been ages! 

Apologies if I'm repeating what others have said but my theory after catching up on this thread just now? I think the characters with new suits (like Diggle and Laurel) are from another earth. And I'm guessing they're gonna be traveling along with Oliver to every earth he visits. (I can imagine one of the first things Oliver does is search out that earth's Diggle.) I'm also guessing they're gonna give the LL fans their longed-for GA/BC partnership with Laurel, too. Probably why KC was so excited, haha. 

I'm still bummed EBR isn't coming back. I think it's a real shame. I hope they can twist her arm to do the finale at least. I think it would disappointing on her part if she refused so fingers crossed! Even though I was mostly content with the way 722 ended (awful future aside), I would like that Olicity reunion. LOL. 

On the whole though, I can't say anything I've read just now has enticed me to watch S8 (I've never cared about Tommy, and I certainly don't see the point in an alternate earth version etc, and tons of guest stars doesn't excite me either). But I hope those of you who do watch enjoy it! 😊

[Velocity23]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Greetings all! It's been ages! 

Apologies if I'm repeating what others have said but my theory after catching up on this thread just now? I think the characters with new suits (like Diggle and Laurel) are from another earth. And I'm guessing they're gonna be traveling along with Oliver to every earth he visits. (I can imagine one of the first things Oliver does is search out that earth's Diggle.) I'm also guessing they're gonna give the LL fans their longed-for GA/BC partnership with Laurel, too. Probably why KC was so excited, haha. 

I'm still bummed EBR isn't coming back. I think it's a real shame. I hope they can twist her arm to do the finale at least. I think it would disappointing on her part if she refused so fingers crossed! Even though I was mostly content with the way 722 ended (awful future aside), I would like that Olicity reunion. LOL. 

On the whole though, I can't say anything I've read just now has enticed me to watch S8 (I've never cared about Tommy, and I certainly don't see the point in an alternate earth version etc, and tons of guest stars doesn't excite me either). But I hope those of you who do watch enjoy it! 😊

I think its going to be Diggle not Laurel. I mean Oliver also got a new costume. Apparently they teased somekind of stories with the Canaries to JH . I think Katie just wanted to make it seem like she is more involved with the Oliver part. I can imagine it basically being for the episodes of crossover. But that will be every single hero there.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Velocity23

[Featherhat]

DR is definitely pushing the Oliver and Diggle SA and DR narrative with no hint KC is standing in for EBR in that team. It seems likely with episode one and the crossovers, though maybe more in the middle. Because yeah GA and BC team up or whatever.

The Caranies working together makes sense and has been their go to position for them.

[Velocity23]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

DR is definitely pushing the Oliver and Diggle SA and DR narrative with no hint KC is standing in for EBR in that team. It seems likely with episode one and the crossovers, though maybe more in the middle. Because yeah GA and BC team up or whatever.

The Caranies working together makes sense and has been their go to position for them.

I honestly think they wont look for a stand in for EBR. From what was teased BS still going more solo then teaming up.

I think the Oliver and Monitor will be joined with Diggle solo. They might see BS or something along their journey but i dont think she is joining before Crisis. I think they going to have her come in episode 7 saying E2 was destroyed. And its how she joined in the quest to save the multiverse. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Velocity23

[Chaser]

It’s hard to say. KC and MG think LL fans will be thrilled with what she gets this year, but history has proven that they aren’t always on the same page.

Plus there’s some conflicting info out there. What DR and JH have said v what KC is saying. 

It wouldn’t surprise me if Siren teams up with Oliver but what that translates too isn’t what people expect. 

[tv echo]

Juliana Harkavy | Arrow Season 8 | Comic-Con 2019
Published on Jul 24, 2019, by KSiteTV

-- JH: "So at the beginning of Season 8, Dinah is, uh - she's in a different place. We see her sort of in a jump from where we left her off. And, uh, it's - it's sort of - it stands on its own. It's a unique place that we see Dinah in the first episode."

-- On whether Dinah is still the Black Canary even though she lost her cry,* JH: "She is the Black Canary. And I think that was one of the things that she struggled with the most last season was, not knowing if without her, you know, cry, she was. And one of my favorite things that I've learned about this character was when she did discover that you don't need the cry. It's about what's inside. It's about your sense of justice. It's about who you are. That's what makes you the Canary. And I want, you know, people who watch the show to feel that, with or without any kind of special power, they too can be that."

(* The show and some fans seem to forget that E1 Laurel was the Black Canary without a metahuman cry.)

-- JH: "Birds of Prey is another thing that I would be very excited to do more with."

-- On whether there's any possibility that she might join one of the spinoffs after Arrow ends, JH: "I hope so. I really hope so. I'd be honored to. I love Legends. It's one of my favorite shows."

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Creator Marc Guggenheim teases final season "Big Bad"
Published on Jul 24, 2019, by Nice Girls TV

-- On whether we'll see the future characters somehow interact with the present characters, MG: "I'll tell you this, when Stephen and I were on the set of the crossover last year, we talked about how it would be a wildly missed opportunity if Mia and Oliver didn't get a chance to meet... I'm just saying."

-- On whether it'll still be called the 'Arrowverse' after Arrow ends, MG: "I hope so. It's really up to all you people... You guys tell us."

-- On whether Oliver and Barry could cross paths before the COIE crossover, MG: "We have talked about it, um, and it's absolutely a possibility. We haven't ruled it out. I will say this, you know, last week I pitched the crossover to the network and the week before that I pitched the crossover to the studio, and a big part of the pitch was basically acknowledging the fact that, for all these past years, in every crossover, Oliver and Barry have really been the core that has run through the crossovers and that's absolutely true in this year's crossover. So, um, you know, whether it happens before the crossover, again, it's something we've talked about, but for sure in the crossover, that's a key relationship."

-- On how the Big Bad for all the shows this year seems to be time, MG: "Yes. That's a great way of putting it... Again, when we pitch it, we talk about in terms of destiny. You know, all the characters are facing some version of their destiny, and they have to react to it and confront it and, you know, in a lot of cases, rise above it. Um, that said, um, the Big Bad of the crossover - I literally tweeted this out two seconds ago - is of course going to be the Anti-Monitor, um, from Crisis On Infinite Earths. Uh, LaMonica Garrett is going to play that role, um, because there's no one else to play that role. Um, you know, LaMonica's perfect for it... We're going to see, I think, a real strong antagonist for the biggest crossover event we've ever done."

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[Angel12d]

9 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

I think its going to be Diggle not Laurel. I mean Oliver also got a new costume. Apparently they teased somekind of stories with the Canaries to JH . I think Katie just wanted to make it seem like she is more involved with the Oliver part. I can imagine it basically being for the episodes of crossover. But that will be every single hero there.

I truly have no idea, mine was just a theory/spec. But unless they want us to pretend we didn’t see BS in the future wearing the same E1 LL/BC buckles costume (which is entirely possible, of course, knowing these writers and continuity), then I’m led to believe the LL with a new costume is from another earth. And I’m not sure why they’d go to the trouble of giving new suits for a version of BC that will just be in one episode, which is why I thought maybe Oliver will be “collecting” these heroes from each earth and traveling with a team. It’s weird because creating another team with other earth versions isn’t a new show at all, it’s the same thing basically but these writers are nothing if not repetitive. 🤷🏽‍♀️

But as I said, just a theory! I hope it is just Oliver/Diggle for the most part but KC and MG seem to be hyping LL a lot this season, from what little I’ve seen. 🙄😂

Edited July 25, 2019 by Angel12d

[tv echo]

Whoa - JBam is not directing the Arrow crossover episode, so now he's only directing 3 episodes this season (it was previously reported that he was directing 4 episodes)...

James Bamford on stunts, directing, and the end of Arrow
Published on Jul 24, 2019, by Nice Girls TV

-- On how many episodes he's directing this season and whether he's directing the crossover, JBam: "Well, it was kind of a split thing. It was a difficult decision. Um, I've directed, you know, the last three or four, if I remember... But this year I'm directing 801, the premiere. I'm directing 809, um, and I'm directing the series finale, 810. The crossover is 808 and that'll be directed by Glen Winter. So I couldn't do - I just couldn't do both. That's just physically impossible. Um, and it was a toss-up between that and that. But the series finale is, uh - I'd rather be doing that anyway."

-- On whether there's anything he's really wanted to do and now that it's the final season he wants to do it, JBam: "Always. There's laundry lists of stuff." He then mentioned how Daredevil has a full hour and can do a 10-minute oner, and he can't because he only has 42 minutes and there's the rest of the episode that also has to air. He also mentioned how disappointing it was when something gets cut for the final broadcast. He's got literally a list of stuff on his phone of what he still wants to do. He also wants to put together a director's cut of all of his episodes, including shot but unseen footage, that he wants the fans to see.

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[Chaser]

11 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I truly have no idea, mine was just a theory/spec. But unless they want us to pretend we didn’t see BS in the future wearing the same E1 LL/BC buckles costume (which is entirely possible, of course, knowing these writers and continuity), then I’m led to believe the LL with a new costume is from another earth. And I’m not sure why they’d go to the trouble of giving new suits for a version of BC that will just be in one episode, which is why I thought maybe Oliver will be “collecting” these heroes from each earth and traveling with a team. It’s weird because creating another team with other earth versions isn’t a new show at all, it’s the same thing basically but these writers are nothing if not repetitive. 🤷🏽‍♀️

But as I said, just a theory! I hope it is just Oliver/Diggle for the most part but KC and MG seem to be hyping LL a lot this season, from what little I’ve seen. 🙄😂

I think making her from another E is the best way to avoid that plot hole. But Arrow loves its plot holes and JH saying this season is the closest they’ve been, makes me think they are jumping right down that hole.

This particular lack of logic is another reason why I think the BOP episode was supposed to be her swan song.

[tv echo]

Arrow - James Bamford Interview, Season 8
Published on Jul 23, 2019, by Showbiz Junkies

-- Since Oliver was taken away by the Monitor this season, on whether this season is going to be like a buddy road trip/adventures through other dimensions, James Bamford: "Yes... Well, we left it off in a very emotional, uh, heartbreaking place with the finale last year. Um, and it's going to continue down that road... In each episode - I mean, I've still - I've got about two more days of shooting the premiere, or directing the premiere, and, uh, every single day there's been somebody crying on set, uh, just from the cast performances... The crew and everybody's like watching the actors, going, 'Holy shit. This is happening.' ... They're not crying because the show's ending, because they'll cry plenty for that in December, but they're crying because of all the content of the performances. The script is brilliant. The 801 script was so good, it's - it almost shoots itself.. But it's gigantic and, uh, we're all exhausted and we don't care because it's worth it. Um, so I would say that this season, uh, you'll feel a lot of nostalgia from the pilot, from Season 1, from Season 2, from every season - uh, it's pretty much every season rolled up into one. Uh, the premiere, 801, is... has been like shooting the pilot all over again, but trying to outdo it, and the finale episode from Season 1 and... 121 from Season 1, all rolled up into one episode... Everybody's committed to making it fantastic. I wish we had more broadcast time. Uh, we have 42 minutes and there's so much good stuff that we're shooting... I want to do a director's cut sometime because so much gets cut... The finale from last season had 10 minutes cut from it, um, of unseen footage. So my hope is that one day we can go back and sort of re-release all that stuff, because there's a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor that, um, so to speak, I'm extremely proud of... that the world hasn't seen yet."

-- Since it's a shortened season, on whether they're shooting the 10 episodes as one big piece or whether they're still being broken up episodically, James Bamford: "They're still being broken up. I'm directing 801, and 809 and 810 together, so those two are going to be shot, like, one big piece. Um, but we've got a tremendous line-up of directors, uh, some blasts from the past that we haven't seen for awhile. And, uh, not to mention cast that we haven't seen for awhile or maybe not ever seen... But there are a lot of surprises coming... Each episode so far, and we haven't started shooting the other two, but I've received the script for 802 and 803, and they're like feature film. But the crew is going, 'Oh Jesus.' They pick it up and go, 'Oh my god.' Like, it's very, very challenging... Like I said, everybody's incredibly committed. We're going to get this done and we're going to do it right... Marc and I keep talking, 'No matter what, we're going to do this right, we're going to do this right.' So, you know, we want to leave the fans with something long-lasting and a legacy. This Arrow was the start of the superhero renaissance on television, you know, after also, um, we want to go out that way. We shoot everything practically. We don't use a lot of visual effects, you know, at all. We don't rely on visual effects. So we have to work a little harder than a lot of the other shows, um, to get a half decent sequence, uh, because it's all real people doing real things. And it takes a lot longer to shoot, than pointing up in the sky and having a cartoon kinda happen and then going back. It takes a lot more physical effort."
 

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

In the flashforwards last season, we saw that future Dinah is still known to the public as Black Canary. When the news announcer showed the faces of Dinah, Felicity and Roy as wanted fugitives, their photos on the TV screen were labeled Black Canary, Overwatch and Arsenal.

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[Angel12d]

18 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I think making her from another E is the best way to avoid that plot hole. But Arrow loves its plot holes and JH saying this season is the closest they’ve been, makes me think they are jumping right down that hole.

This particular lack of logic is another reason why I think the BOP episode was supposed to be her swan song.

I mean, it’s also possible she’s playing two versions of LL? E2 LL teaming up with DD, and whatever earth version with the new costume? IDK. Same with Diggle. E1 Diggle and another version. 

I agree, I fully believe KC was supposed to leave after 718. Everything was too wrapped up. But they changed their minds I guess. 😂

[tv echo]

Rick Gonzalez | Arrow Season 8 | Comic-Con 2019
Published on Jul 24, 2019, by KSiteTV

-- On how he thinks present day Rene would respond if he found out how cool Zoe is in the future, RG: "I think he'd be a little salty because she's kind of a Canary more than she is kinda Wild Dog. But other than that, he'd be very proud. Extremely."

-- On how characters like Rene and Dinah will fit in this season when Oliver's away traveling with the Monitor, RG: "Yeah, that's a good question... I think with Dinah, she's, uh, in the field as a captain and taking that role. And I think Rene, because we teased Season 7 of him being the mayor, there has to be a journey for him to be in politics. So I think that's kind of where we're gonna, like, find Rene, is, like, seeing, what if I went this way to do good?"

Same RG interview in the following two videos...

SDCC 2019: 'Arrow' Rick Gonzalez Interview
Published on Jul 22, 2019, by Fangirlish

SDCC 2019 INTERVIEW: Rick Gonzalez from "Arrow"
Published on Jul 23, 2019, by Nerds and Beyond

-- On his greatest hope for Rene, RG: "I would hope that he falls in love, you know, um, but, alas, we see in the future he's not married. So, uh, you know, that's one thing I would've liked to see was Rene kinda like - we see that side of him. You know, we see him as a father and learn to be a good father. Um, now what would he look like if he fell in love, you know, and opened his heart to a woman? That would be nice."

-- RG: "I think this season we're going to tackle the beginnings of his aspirations in politics and becoming mayor. So we'll definitely tease that."

-- On whether he thinks the future is set in stone or whether it can change, RG: "I think it can change. I think so. I think that's what - why we care about these characters and these stories because, with the powers that someone like the Monitor has, it doesn't take away from the ability that these characters have as - as who they are, which is, people that want to do right, you know, and want to do the right thing. They fight for that. So that's the exciting part about the show, is like we -  just because he's that powerful doesn't mean that things can't change, you know? So, absolutely."

-- On whether Rene will ever call anyone 'Hoss' again or whether that's retired, RG: "I think that's retired. I think it's time."

-- On whether we'll see more of Rene's relationship with Zoe in present day, RG: "Yes. In the present, yes. Uh, in the future, I don't think so. I think we're done with Rene in the future. I think we've decided that he's sacrificed himself and, uh, that's that. You know, he's in jail and so it'll be up to them to be the heroes that they are."

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[apinknightmare]

15 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I think we've decided that he's sacrificed himself and, uh, that's that. You know, he's in jail and so it'll be up to them to be the heroes that they are.

Wait, what? I thought Rene went off the grid with Dinah, Roy and Felicity?

[tv echo]

Maybe we'll find out in 801 that Rene, Dinah and Roy got caught and imprisoned, and that's why we don't see them in the flashforwards any more.

Edited July 25, 2019 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

Well, I can't say I'm upset if Rene is in jail. Maybe it's their excuse for why he and the others aren't around even though they did agree to step back last season. 

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I mean, it’s also possible she’s playing two versions of LL? E2 LL teaming up with DD, and whatever earth version with the new costume? IDK. Same with Diggle. E1 Diggle and another version. 

It's all possible and things might end up having changed after COIE as well, somehow. 

3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

But as I said, just a theory! I hope it is just Oliver/Diggle for the most part but KC and MG seem to be hyping LL a lot this season, from what little I’ve seen. 🙄😂

They do, and it's possible one version or multiple verisons of LL will be with Oliver. OTOH Laurel stuff has been hyped a lot before only to turn out nothing much so I guess it's wait and see. I wasn't really anticipating Oliver collecting various people then them joining his group on screen from then on, but again, maybe. 

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

They do, and it's possible one version or multiple verisons of LL will be with Oliver. OTOH Laurel stuff has been hyped a lot before only to turn out nothing much so I guess it's wait and see. I wasn't really anticipating Oliver collecting various people then them joining his group on screen from then on, but again, maybe. 

Why would they do that? And who is going to film that? Cuz Stephen Amell sure wont. I am not sure Laurel stuff was really that much hyped? 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Velocity23

[Featherhat]

5 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Why would they do that? And who is going to film that? Cuz Stephen Amell sure wont. 

Be with as is "travel with" (in a group with Diggle plus) not be together in a relationship with. They wouldn't go there now after Oliver leaving his wife and baby daughter. 

I guess he could visit an Earth like the 100th ep though as a one off, like with Tommy and Chase as GA or DA. Though it's a been there, done that. 

Unless they really wanted to create a finale worse than HIMYM and changed everything around after COIE. Which I don't think so at all in this way. 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Featherhat

[Velocity23]

4 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Be with as is "travel with" (in a group with Diggle plus) not be together in a relationship with. They wouldn't go there now after Oliver leaving his wife and baby daughter. 

Honestly i get why he would go with Dig? But i dont see where Oliver would confide in fake Laurel before the rest of his team regarding Crisis. The random wording by KC is being taken as fact that Laurel joins them? When she still supposedly has redeeming to do on her own.

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Honestly i get why he would go with Dig? But i dont see where Oliver would confide in fake Laurel before the rest of his team regarding Crisis. The random wording by KC is being taken as fact that Laurel joins them? When she still supposedly has redeeming to do on her own.

It wouldn't be as if he goes to E2 to specifically get her and leaves out everyone else on E1 but even if he did, he wouldn't leave Star City with no one to protect it. She is someone who he at least knows what to expect and what not to expect as opposed to having to trust a total stranger (if he does build a team)

[Velocity23]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

It wouldn't be as if he goes to E2 to specifically get her and leaves out everyone else on E1 but even if he did, he wouldn't leave Star City with no one to protect it. She is someone who he at least knows what to expect and what not to expect as opposed to having to trust a total stranger (if he does build a team)

But if Dinah and Laurel have somewhat of a joint SL together this season, that means fake Laurel must be on E1. I dont see Dinah jumping to E2. And if the Rene scenes and of Not Tommy are from E1 it could just easily mean Dinah called up Laurel, since she knows she is from another Earth.  This is the beginning of Olivers journey with Monitor that we will see. So its logical its start from E1. I think the two Canaries will be left to protect the city and how the network of canaries will develop. Since Rene will be on his mayor trip i dont think he will do all that much of vigilantism. 

[apinknightmare]

40 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Well, I can't say I'm upset if Rene is in jail.

I'll be upset if he isn't! Pls show, give me one shot behind bars.