Season 21 Live Feed Discussion

[vb68]

14 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Cliff explained why David rubs him the wrong way. He said David is aggressive, forceful, and arrogant

Yeah that describes most of the other men in the House, too.  

I think it's really that Jack and Son perceive David as a threat, and Cliff is still looking for his "in" with the Cool Kids.

Less and Less impressed with Cliff the more I hear from him.

Edited July 5, 2019 by vb68

[Lady Calypso]

22 minutes ago, zorak said:

Cliff hasn't said anything too earth shattering in his morning talk.  They just gave the message for houseguests to wake up so stuff is definitely happening today.

Yeah, today is Whacktivity and then noms, so it'll be a busy day and feeds will be down for a while.

9 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm trying to give these people the benefit of the doubt but fucking hell they make it so hard! Honestly, I can see why Cliff feels that way about David but he loses me when he uses those reasons to hate David while having little problem with Jack who acts 10 times as aggressive, forceful, and arrogant as David.

Exactly. I wish Cliff was doing this more for game, rather than him legit hating David. It's not like he can't hate David, but his reasoning is questionable. David hasn't really been doing anything that is wrong. 

Does Cliff not see how Jack and Son are WAY more aggressive?

[ByaNose]

3 minutes ago, vb68 said:

Yeah that describes most of the other men in the House, too.  

I think it's really that Jack and Son perceive David as a threat, and Cliff is still looking for his "in" with the Cool Kids.

Less and Less impressed with Cliff the more I hear from him.

I guess Cliff is trying to survive anyway he thinks he can. Of course, he doesn't realize how liked he is/was and how awful Jack & Son are in the outside world. It's too bad he doesn't know that.

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, vb68 said:

I think it's really that Jack and Son perceive David as a threat, and Cliff is looking for his "in" with the Cool Kids.

I could see this but then I don't know why Cliff wouldn't just say that in his little morning talk to the live feeders. Maybe Cliff thinks the audience loves the Jackoffs and hates David and he's trying to get into the audience's good graces. If that's the case it's interesting that he would think that.

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, ByaNose said:

I guess Cliff is trying to survive anyway he thinks he can. Of course, he doesn't realize how liked he is/was and how awful Jack & Son are in the outside world. It's too bad he doesn't know that.

Which is insane how they don't know that after production has had to talk to both of them already and Cliff knows that.

[ByaNose]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

Which is insane how they don't know that after production has had to talk to both of them already and Cliff knows that.

That is true. I think Jack even sort of explained it to Cliff. I guess he is going with the "cool kids".

[zorak]

I go back and forth on Cliff.  I think he recognizes who is in power so to speak and wants to be on their good side so he can stay in the game as long as possible.  On the other hand, it has led him to do some shitty things (like join in on making fun of Ovi) just to try to fit in with them.  I guess it comes down to how much of yourself you're willing to sacrifice all in the name of winning the game.  

Tommy is telling Jack that he chipped his tooth doing the slip and slide yesterday.

Edited July 5, 2019 by zorak

[peachmangosteen]

Oh, I forgot one of the words Cliff used to describe David and explain why David rubs him the wrong way: intimidating.

I was gonna try to watch the Jack/Tommy convo but then Jack put his foot on Tommy's chest and Tommy started rubbing Jack's leg so I noped the fuck out.

[missyb]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, I forgot one of the other words cliff used to describe David and explain why David rubs him the wrong way: intimidating.

I just listened to that part  and it sounded more like Cliff was admitting to being intimidated by David.

[zorak]

I think sometimes these people have no sense of what the word aggressive means.  Christie just now:  "Woah, these lights are aggressive."  

Edited July 5, 2019 by zorak

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, missyb said:

I just listened to that part  and it sounded more like Cliff was admitting to being intimidated by David.

You're right. But why is he? I feel like he's letting the Jackoffs influence him a lot, which is sad more than anything.

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, zorak said:

I think sometimes these people who have no sense of what the word aggressive means. Christie just now:  "Woah, these lights are aggressive."  

Lol yea. It seems to mean just like 'a lot' to them. But still, why does David being 'a lot' rub Cliff the wrong way when he either doesn't see the Jackoffs as 'a lot' or he sees it but it doesn't bother him?

[missyb]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

You're right. But why is he? I feel like he's letting the Jackoffs influence him a lot, which is sad more than anything.

Just based on what I have seen of Cliff, he is afraid of anyone that may upset his standing  that he is working so hard to maintain. If someone is evicted but doesn't leave, they still have time to work their way back into some good graces. To form an alliance based on their coming back into the house.  If David works his way into the hearts of the females ( led by Kat), that doesn't bode well for CLiffs future.

The Jacks are a known factor to Cliff. He needs them to keep him in the game until he has some power. David is quite an unknown factor. WHat he should do is get to know him !

I am willing to give all the HG's a rest ( except the Jacks) and see how this effects their game plans.

Edited July 5, 2019 by missyb

[peachmangosteen]

18 minutes ago, zorak said:

I guess it comes down to how much of yourself you're willing to sacrifice all in the name of winning the game.

Very true. And since I've never been there and therefore don't know how much I would sacrifice to win I can't really judge them. Still gonna do it though lol.

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, missyb said:

Just based on what I have seen of Cliff, he is afraid of anyone that may upset his standing  that he is working so hard to maintain. If someone is evicted but doesn't leave, they still have time to work their way back into some good graces. To form an alliance based on their coming back into the house.  If David works his way into the hearts of the females ( led by Kat), that doesn't bode well for CLiffs future.

I do think this is a lot of it for Cliff but he didn't frame all of his comments about David in a game sense. Some of it was just about why David 'rubs him the wrong way.' Yet he doesn't talk about Jack rubbing him the wrong way for the same reasons even though Jack's also aggressive and arrogant. 

[zorak]

1 minute ago, missyb said:

Just based on what I have seen of Cliff, he is afraid of anyone that may upset his standing  that he is working so hard to maintain. If someone is evicted but doesn't leave, they still have time to work their way back into some good graces. To form an alliance based on their coming back into the house.  If David works his way into the hearts of the females ( led by Kat), that doesn't bode well for CLiffs future.

I am willing to give all the HG's a rest ( except the Jacks) and see how this effects their game plans.

I definitely agree that Cliff sees David as a potential disruption of what he's worked to achieve in his mind.  He's talked a lot about how David has just been acting a little too familiar with them considering he didn't really have an existing relationship with them when he was dropped back into the house.  I get what Cliff means but I also think David is in a tough position.  If he just hung back and didn't try to interact with them at all, they'd criticize him for that and if he tries to integrate himself into the house like he's been there all along, they think he's trying to dictate things.  He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.  I don't think David is doing himself any favors though when he says he's "incepting" them à la Inception.  Christie has mentioned more than once that he's made comments about that.  David probably means it as a joke but it's coming off really weird to the rest of them.

[ByaNose]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

I do think this is a lot of it for Cliff but he didn't frame all of his comments about David in a game sense. Some of it was just about why David 'rubs him the wrong way.' Yet he doesn't talk about Jack rubbing him the wrong way for the same reasons even though Jack's also aggressive and arrogant. 

Yeah, Cliff is definitely giving his reasons for not liking David. Whereas with Jack he doesn't seem to have a problem. Maybe, it isn't game realated but personality related. David was only in the BB house for a few hours and some of the people really don't know him or want to even try.

[zorak]

Jackson says when he was in college he was a poli sci major who had aspirations of going into law school.  He says he thought about dropping that to become an endocrinologist.  I want to know more about his school situation.  He's been living in LA even though he went to the University of Tennessee but at some point I heard him say that he has all the hours he needs to graduate but he's lacking the required foreign language credits.  Does anyone know why he moved to LA and didn't stay in Tennessee, where he was a student?

[zorak]

Christie and Tommy have been talking.  They were talking about Jack.  Christie is glad that he thinks everything is his idea, even when it isn't.  She's the one who came up with the whole "we will not talk game to the Camp Comeback kids" but Jack is the one who announced it and took credit for it.  She was happy he did.  She thinks it's great that he is taking credit for doing the dirty work that she comes up with but the blood is on his hands.  It also almost sounded like they were talking about taking Jack with them for final 3.  They think nobody would vote for him at the end if it came to that.  Christie is pretty sure that Jack is going to get taken out before final 8 and although she would like for him to be there with them for final 8, she's ok if he gets taken out.  Tommy doesn't think Jack is going to get taken out before then.

Edited July 6, 2019 by zorak

[missyb]

7 minutes ago, zorak said:

Jackson says when he was in college he was a poli sci major who had aspirations of going into law school.  He says he thought about dropping that to become an endocrinologist.  I want to know more about his school situation.  He's been living in LA even though he went to the University of Tennessee but at some point I heard him say that he has all the hours he needs to graduate but he's lacking the required foreign language credits.  Does anyone know why he moved to LA and didn't stay in Tennessee, where he was a student?

This probably has nothing to do with anything , but, early on, I heard Jackson tell Holly his roommate was on the Bachelorette. I think dreams of making it on to the show or something else prompted this move to LA. He has the "bachelor" contestant look.

[peachmangosteen]

30 minutes ago, zorak said:

Does anyone know why he moved to LA and didn't stay in Tennessee, where he was a student?

Because he read that one book.

[vb68]

But who pours him his chocolate milk in LA?

[zorak]

Jack slipped up and forgot that Kat was in one of the beds in the RV room when he was in there talking to Nick, Sam, and Bella about who he was going to nominate.  He said Kemi and Jess.  Then later on, I guess Kat asked Christie if she knew anything about who Jack was going to nominate.  She came and told Jack and he said he slipped up and forgot Kat was in the room.  Then Jack said he could just threaten her if need be and tell her that if she told people about the noms that he would just throw her up on the block instead.

[peachmangosteen]

But who pours him his chocolate milk in LA?

True. And who cuts his watermelon? His life in LA must be so hard.

[zorak]

Now Jack is talking to Kat and telling her he promises that she's not going on the block.

[peachmangosteen]

Tommy thinks there's no way Kemi can win veto. Analyse hates her and can't be fake to her. She also hates David. Tommy doesn't hate him like the rest but thinks he's insignificant.

I need Kemi to win veto and I need David to get back in the house in 2 weeks and then immediately win HOH. I'm manifesting it now.

[zorak]

Jackson is yet again relaying his plan of driving David crazy by leaving messes everywhere to Sam and Christie.  But he told them to not worry, that he wouldn't do those things to them.  He also made his "take his soul from the inside out" comment again.  I've also heard Jackson claim to multiple people that David has been leaving pee on the toilet seat, which seems a little odd to me considering that Jackson just said that David is very clean and doesn't like messes and dirtiness.  I think he said that Tommy had gone into the bathroom after David and saw the pee on the seat and it had to be David because nobody else in the house does that stuff.

[Alice Mudgarden]

1 hour ago, zorak said:

I guess it comes down to how much of yourself you're willing to sacrifice all in the name of winning the game.  

This is what I always call everyone's personal line in the sand. Like, I know me and an example I always use for myself is that time Jeff literally talked down to Kalia. He was speaking aggressively (that's how you use that word, Christie) and physically standing over her as she sat and it drove me crazy that she just sat there, more or less letting him. I don't even remember what she was saying in response - IIRC, she was defending herself, but not very assertively? - but I remember literally talking to the screen and saying:

"Oh HELL NO. There's no WAY he'd be treating me this way."

It's probably counterproductive from a game standpoint to say something to a person who's acting shitty or treating you in a manner you don't like (which is backwards, IMO, but people are nuts) but I know I'd do it anyway. My integrity, dignity - whatever you want to call it - is worth more to me than half a mill or the popularity of a bunch of morons.

Though, lets be honest: I ain't NEVER going on this show. I have negative percent desire for that noise.

[Lady Calypso]

1 minute ago, zorak said:

I've also heard Jackson claim to multiple people that David has been leaving pee on the toilet seat, which seems a little odd to me considering that Jackson just said that David is very clean and doesn't like messes and dirtiness.

It's because Cliff said yesterday that they should spread that rumour so Jackson seems to be going along with it.

[vb68]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was gonna try to watch the Jack/Tommy convo but then Jack put his foot on Tommy's chest and Tommy started rubbing Jack's leg so I noped the fuck out.

Yeah, I just can't with that.  That's like animal behavior in the wild where the other males groom the alpha.  No doubt Jack sees himself that way.  I hate that Tommy plays into it that much.  Makes me cringe.  I guess that's one way to look at Cliff, too. They have determined Jack is THE alpha, and they will follow him and do his bidding.  Makes me want to root for David to disrupt it. 

Edited July 5, 2019 by vb68

[zorak]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

Tommy thinks there's no way Kemi can win veto. Analyse hates her and can't be fake to her. She also hates David. Tommy doesn't hate him like the test but thinks he's insignificant.

I need Kemi to win veto and I need David to get back in the house in 2 weeks and then immediately win HOH. I'm manifesting it now 

Earlier when Tommy and Christie were talking about someone taking Jack out before final 8, Christie was very convinced that Kemi could be the one to do it.  She says Kemi is fiery and says Kemi says she'll win the veto if she goes up.  She's also convinced that if Kemi does win the veto that Kemi will also win the next HOH.

[sphoebus31]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I could see this but then I don't know why Cliff wouldn't just say that in his little morning talk to the live feeders. Maybe Cliff thinks the audience loves the Jackoffs and hates David and he's trying to get into the audience's good graces. If that's the case it's interesting that he would think that.

Cliff might not care if the audience likes him, which seems contrary to him giving friendly talks to the camera.  I saw a pre-show interview (EW Canada on YouTube, I think), and Cliff was asked if he'd rather be respected (or was it 'liked'?) and lose, or not repected (disliked?) and win, and he opted for winning.  Sorry I don't remember verbatim, but hopefully you get the gist.

Also, in the same set of interviews, David was noted as being able to cry at will, which he  demonstrated.  I saw David's interview after his tearful banishment speech, and that got me to thinking we may have been played there.

[zorak]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's because Cliff said yesterday that they should spread that rumour so Jackson seems to be going along with it.

So, is it really just a rumor or did Tommy actually say that he saw the pee and Cliff just thinks they should make sure everyone knows?

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, zorak said:

So, is it really just a rumor or did Tommy actually say that he saw the pee and Cliff just thinks they should make sure everyone knows?

Kind of a rumor? There was pee on the toilet seat and nobody knows exactly who it is but Cliff said "we should blame it on David!" At least, I think that's how it happened.

[zorak]

Jack's talking to Holly and says Sam and Nick should be on the block against each other week 5.

Jack asked Holly if it was fine with her that he mentions Jess spearheading the all girls alliance when giving his nominations speech.  She said she didn't mind.

Edited July 5, 2019 by zorak

[zorak]

There are so many people I hate in this house but I want Holly to hit the block and be sweating it.  The only thing keeping her alive is her being in the 8 person alliance.  She is just smug about her position in the house.  She said to Jack when they were talking about boot order and such, "This game is fun."

[ByaNose]

I got to have Jack out and quick. I'm sure he's great tv but I want him to get the Arayn treatment when he gets evicted. Hopefully, Julie can blindside him in his exit interview. He is such an a**hole. I don't know what's worse. Him or the girls that are hanging on him. So gross!

[zorak]

Jackson is thrilled that the BB voice has been re-recorded to call him Michie.

[Vixenstud]

Dearest Cliff:

You can fuck right off now, we're done!

Sincerely,

Vixenstud

29 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I need Kemi to win veto and I need David to get back in the house in 2 weeks and then immediately win HOH. I'm manifesting it now.

This hatred is pissing me off....what in the bluedilly fuck have they said or did to cause this?!

[ByaNose]

2 minutes ago, Vixenstud said:

Dearest Cliff:

You can fuck right off now, we're done!

Sincerely,

Vixenstud

This hatred is pissing me off....what in the bluedilly fuck have they said or did to cause this?!

For Jack, I think it was they were born. That's all I have to go on. Then again, he is being edited to look bad on the Live Feeds. LOL!!! He is the worst. OMG! Someone take him down.....soon.

[Vixenstud]

7 minutes ago, zorak said:

There are so many people I hate in this house but I want Holly to hit the block and be sweating it.  The only thing keeping her alive is her being in the 8 person alliance.  She is just smug about her position in the house.  She said to Jack when they were talking about boot order and such, "This game is fun."

Never liked that ugly plastic blowup doll....wonder if the game will still be such 'fun' when her ass gets nomd.

[zorak]

5 minutes ago, Vixenstud said:

This hatred is pissing me off....what in the bluedilly fuck have they said or did to cause this?!

I think a lot of Jack's hate for Kemi stems from the fact that she won't kiss his ass like everyone else seems to do.  I think he also senses that she sees through him and that is dangerous to him.  She was talking to someone else about this before.  She said she thinks that she and Jack are kind of the same person and that's why she sees through him or something like that.

[Vixenstud]

Ahhhh....add Jessica to the mix and that's likely why they don't like the girls.

David is likely due to being muscular.

Whatever the case, doesn't mean they have to be assholes towards them.

[zorak]

Holly doing her best to blend in with the rest of the furniture.  Seriously.  She was sitting there like this for awhile.

[missyb]

I like when the camera stays on Davids face. He is taking in absolutely everything.

[zorak]

Jack is telling Jackson and Nick that he's planning on telling Jess that she's the pawn.

[zorak]

Jack was commenting on how his neck hurt from using the slip and slide.  Cliff is convinced that the only reason BB let them do the slip and slide yesterday is because so many people were stressed out.  He thinks if it had been any other day, BB would have said hell no to that.

[LoveLeigh]

12 minutes ago, zorak said:

I think a lot of Jack's hate for Kemi stems from the fact that she won't kiss his ass like everyone else seems to do.  I think he also senses that she sees through him and that is dangerous to him.  She was talking to someone else about this before.  She said she thinks that she and Jack are kind of the same person and that's why she sees through him or something like that.

I said I was not going to respond but the events compel me to reply with perhaps what might be an insight? Jack's hate for Kemi might be very similar to EvelDick's hatred for Jen in their season. 

Dick hated Jen because she subliminally rejected an association with him right off the bat and in that moment I could tell he bristled. I KNEW he would turn on her and he did.

Kemi may be a very independent woman and that is a threat to some men who have the need to manipulate women. A strong woman riles a man who wants to control women. 

And there you have it in a nutshell. 

[zorak]

Jackson and Holly were talking.  Jackson made a comment speculating about how high the number is regarding the number of men Kat has slept with.  To her credit, Holly more or less called him out on his shit and said that Kat's number probably rivaled his own.  He tried to say that he doesn't think his number is that high and she disagreed.  She said the number of people he had slept with in one year was more than her lifetime number.  It sounded like he said 23 people one year but he tried to say it was all because he was having a bad year.  He's not like that anymore and he's growing as a person.

[IndyMischa]

Re the book thing - David was reading a book whose title somehow involved the phrase "superior leaders." I assume this was from final interviews day or some such, or maybe "at the pool with a chaperone to prevent conversations" day in sequester? The only book I've been able to find that comes close is this one, which includes that phrase on the cover, in the subhead:

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/sun-tzu-machiavelli-leadership-secrets-anthony-d-jensen/1123428535?ean=9781530006618

That may have been intended as a (HILARIOUS) bit of psych-warfare, but none of the idiots who saw it noticed anything but the "superior leaders" part. So instead of thinking he's a Machiavellian genius brushing up on the trade, they think he's arrogant and weird. Makes no sense, but what else is new.

Thought I should clear up the confusion, because let's be serious: Jackson was not reading a book.