S03.E11: AKA Hellcat

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Trish revisits her troubled childhood with Dorothy while plotting to stop Sallinger and stamp out evil across the city.

Original air date: 6/14/19

[millennium]

Wow, Rebecca De Mornay in the flashback Risky Business hair and makeup, what a trip.  

[thuganomics85]

Another Trish-centric episode?  Interesting choice, I guess.  I guess all the flashbacks prove that Dorothy certainly did a number on her throughout her childhood.

But, hey, it also turns out that Trish and Erik were actually working together this entire time, and didn't intend to kill the dirty cop.  So, they now decided to attack this scummy contractor and link the cases, in order to proof Jessica's innocence.  Only Trish kills him as well.  Oops!

[Samwise979]

Oh man. Eric got a headache off Trish right at the end there. Anyone else notice him grabbing his head? She has gone completely bonkers. 

[HunterHunted]

Dorothy seems like she's based on Big Kathy Dugan. If you're familiar with the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, Big Kathy screwed her daughters up beyond repair. Her daughters are former child actresses and Real Housewives Kim Richards and Kyle Richards. Her other daughter is Kathy Hilton.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-414603/The-Hideous-Hiltons.html

The tragedy of Trish is that she's just aware enough of how badly Dorothy screwed her up to occasionally doubt herself, but often too screwed up to stop herself.

[Anela]

The poster in the previous thread was right: they were working together. 

His headache came as her intentions changed. 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Anela

[ganesh]

Wow Trish is off the trails. And she is hallucinating Sallinger. 

[benteen]

On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 2:56 AM, millennium said:

Wow, Rebecca De Mornay in the flashback Risky Business hair and makeup, what a trip.  

She looked like Hillary Clinton.

It's hilarious just how much of a train wreck Trish is as a "hero."  I guess this is why they've been playing up this storyline and pretty much destroying her relationship with Jessica.

Alternate point of view episode led to way too many repeat scenes.

Edited July 1, 2019 by benteen

[Paloma]

34 minutes ago, benteen said:

Alternate point of view episode led to too many repeat scenes.

This drove me crazy (not just in this episode). I kept thinking that we were watching and episode twice or out of sequence. I don't mind alternate point of view, but it could be done more efficiently--you don't have to repeat so much.

[Kel Varnsen]

Wow I totally would have thought that It's Patsy would have been something completely different. Considering the golden age Patsy Walker comics were romance comics I was picturing it being a Saved by the Bell type thing about a teenage Patsy dealing with dating and other high school drama. Not a TGIF show starring a 10 year old Patsy. Still a little annoyed we never saw an actual scene, and now Trish is a murderer. On the plus side Frank Castle could probably use some company.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ugh, watching Dorothy bully, manipulate, guilt trip, pressure, and abuse young Trish made my stomach hurt. It should never be a child's responsibility to make enough money  to support her family or to provide jobs for the entire crew of a show. It's a wonder that Trish isn't more fucked up than she is.

[rmontro]

I'm not usually a fan of episodes that rewind the story to show it from someone else's perspective, even if it does answer some questions.  Tends to stop the momentum.  I didn't mind this one though.

I'm also not a fan of when they take a good character or hero and turn them into the villain (I'm looking at you, Game of Thrones).  I've been waiting for awhile now for Erik to get a headache around Trish.  I also don't like that they're shitting on the Patsy Walker character when she has such a long history in the comics.  Liked that there was a Patsy Walker comic in the scrapbook/photo album.  Funny how Trish becomes evil by following what her mother told her. 

On 8/11/2019 at 10:02 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

Still a little annoyed we never saw an actual scene, and now Trish is a murderer. On the plus side Frank Castle could probably use some company.

All this was foreshadowed when Trish almost killed the gambling woman with the crowbar, accidentally.  And her other murders were accidents also.  Looks like she's embracing it though.

You bring up a good point with Frank Castle.  How is what Trish is doing any worse than what the Punisher does?  But he's portrayed as a hero, while I get the impression we're now supposed to root against Trish.  Is this a gender thing?  To be honest, I thought she should have killed Sallinger in the first place (and probaby would have if Jessica hadn't interfered).  I wonder if Erik would get a headache around Frank Castle?

[Raja]

On 12/22/2019 at 3:06 PM, rmontro said:

I'm not usually a fan of episodes that rewind the story to show it from someone else's perspective, even if it does answer some questions.  Tends to stop the momentum.  I didn't mind this one though.

I'm also not a fan of when they take a good character or hero and turn them into the villain (I'm looking at you, Game of Thrones).  I've been waiting for awhile now for Erik to get a headache around Trish.  I also don't like that they're shitting on the Patsy Walker character when she has such a long history in the comics.  Liked that there was a Patsy Walker comic in the scrapbook/photo album.  Funny how Trish becomes evil by following what her mother told her. 

All this was foreshadowed when Trish almost killed the gambling woman with the crowbar, accidentally.  And her other murders were accidents also.  Looks like she's embracing it though.

You bring up a good point with Frank Castle.  How is what Trish is doing any worse than what the Punisher does?  But he's portrayed as a hero, while I get the impression we're now supposed to root against Trish.  Is this a gender thing?  To be honest, I thought she should have killed Sallinger in the first place (and probaby would have if Jessica hadn't interfered).  I wonder if Erik would get a headache around Frank Castle?

What is different, besides Castle targeting directly the mobs he held responsible for his family and not just criminals in general, was the continued use of "powers". Frank Castle was not presented as "powered" just as a bull headed Marine. And the Devil of Hell's Kitchen along with the  Iron Fists just present to the MCU public  as martial artist vigilantes, not obvious "powered". It is where Jessica Jones is different from the hero shows of the MCU from Hero Luke Cage to hero Avengers. But Castle still is a villain, while a villainous CIA wishes to use his combat talents.

Because Hellcat was powered, and masked a suspected serial killer could accuse her  and public opinion turned against the powered. It is not something that we have seen it on the other MCU shows. Although with the next Spider-Man, as the only other masked hero vigilante, we will see how that plays out.

I don't know about the comics but Patsy just seems like a Cat Woman analog who in an opposite way perhaps breaks good more often then she breaks bad. But fans suggest to me that she has been played on both sides of the good/evil line like a professional wrestler can jump back and forth depending upon the current story.

[rmontro]

10 hours ago, Raja said:

What is different, besides Castle targeting directly the mobs he held responsible for his family and not just criminals in general, was the continued use of "powers". Frank Castle was not presented as "powered" just as a bull headed Marine.

I agree with this, but I'm not thinking in terms of public opinion.  It's easy to see how public opinion would be against vigilantes with super powers, or even vigilantes without super powers for that matter.  I was thinking in terms of what the writers are telling us viewers, how we're supposed to think.  We're supposed to see Trish as a villain.  But what she is doing is not really different from what Frank does (or Wolverine, or Deadpool, or any superhero vigilante for that matter.  They're clearly breaking the law).

Frank doesn't have "powers", but he is a highly trained death machine and he uses high powered automatic weapons.

I'd like to say more, but I have to be careful since this episode isn't at the end of the story yet, and I don't want to post spoilers.  If you post a comment on S03 E13, I guarantee I will respond to it.

[Raja]

What the audience has was, I'll call him an Inhuman since I don't remember an origin story, character who was a reliable supernatural judge of good and evil. Now if he was set next to Frank Castle and/or Agent Madani an official take of were they Angel's of good or evil then perhaps there is a problem. 

But in the end we are following Jessica's story, not Patricia's.

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

What the audience has was, I'll call him an Inhuman since I don't remember an origin story, character who was a reliable supernatural judge of good and evil.

Marvel have the X-Men back, so maybe we can call him a mutant?  I'm assuming the license extends to the TV shows, but I could be wrong.

 

2 hours ago, Raja said:

But in the end we are following Jessica's story, not Patricia's.

Jessica's the lead, but we were also following Trish's story, Jery's story, and Malcolm's story, among others.  If the show's only about Jessica, they shouldn't have made the sisters so close then.

There's something about me, I don't know what it is, I just react negatively when I think writers do a disservice to characters that I like.  Trish's behavior hasn't been right, but I've been waiting since season one for her to become Hellcat.  And since her character is so old, it's a bit like if they had turned Steve Rogers evil, I don't like it.  Which is odd, because I enjoy a good villain.  But to take a classically good character and then swerve her to the dark side, it doesn't sit well with me.

[Raja]

The sisters being close is what makes her sister breaking bad so powerful for Jessica to deal with. I do feel your pain about the change of a favored character. My favorite S.H.I.E.L.D. agent from the comic book run that I most remember and admire as a kid was turned into a Hydra member for Captain America The Winter Soldier and The Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

[rmontro]

12 hours ago, Raja said:

I do feel your pain about the change of a favored character. My favorite S.H.I.E.L.D. agent from the comic book run that I most remember and admire as a kid was turned into a Hydra member for Captain America The Winter Soldier and The Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

I'm glad you can empathize.  I cared about both sisters, Jessica and Trish.  The writers wanted us to turn against Trish, but for me it just made me like Jessica less, and I'm sure that wasn't the intended reaction. 

I'm sure the writers think that if they make you feel something, then they've succeeded, but I don't think that's always the case.  The end result for me is that I just care less about this series, which is a shame because I had just been saying that I couldn't decide which was the better Marvel series, Jessica Jones or Daredevil.