S01.E10: I Don't Want to Miss a Thing

[Cristofle]

7 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

You find your Wife or Partner on the force is an alien and all you can manage is that, you hope you didn't get an alien STD when you were probed, or that your alien partner hid his singing at karaoke, or that it's cool, but did you make me choose this sweater?  These people should not only be in shock, but outraged and mad.  Cameron acts like she would still like to be with Max, despite being a good friend and telling him that he needs to let Liz know he's alright.

Part of me really thinks Noah already knew for some reason (I'd like to think he's not an alien himself, but that doesn't rule out an "Orphan Black" type thing, as others have suggested) because I agree that otherwise, his reaction is off and startlingly low-key. I don't know that Cam has quite earned "outraged", though - Noah is Isobel's husband. Cam has been a work partner and occasional friends with benefits. Upset, I get, and she was. Perhaps she could have been more freaked out. But I don't necessarily feel like this was information Max owed her. I also wouldn't be down with him being upset if it came up she put him on Jesse's radar, because she didn't know and he hadn't explained it. 

[Jacks-Son]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

And I didn't get the impression that until recently that Alex and Michael had done more than kiss.

If the question is: Did Michael head to Maria's bar intending to have sex or simply stopping by for friendship? It's probably both, knowing Michael and most anybody else, he thought of the possibilities and wouldn;'t have said, "No", if offered.

I'm confused about the quoted comment.  I got the impression that Michael and Alex have never actually had sex before.  They may have fooled around or simply gave the impression that they would have been cool with it, but I got the sense that the trailer liaison was their first.

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Regarding Michael's current feelings for Maria:

I did not get that impression after this exchange:
[Maria]: I never would have slept with you if I knew you two had history. It can't happen again. 
[Michael]: You keep saying that.
Michael's parting line of "You keep saying that" implied to me that he and Maria had been friends with benefits before.

That, to me, comes across more as Michael doing a whole "The lady doth protest too much, methinks". Like "you keep saying you're not hot for my bod and I'll respect that but I also know that you're wrong because you keep repeating it." I don't think it signals any sort of back-in-the-day affair. If anything, I thought she was repeating it because her friendship with Alex and the fact that she knows how in love Alex is with Michael and she wants Michael to know that there's a reason she won't sleep with him again. Not to say she's never gonna sleep with him again because the show is going to make this as messy as possible but just that she temporarily has some morals and a reminder that she's besties with everyone in town who isn't Isobel or Michael. 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

In the previous episode, Maria initiated contact with "Dance with me, Mikey." Then in the desert the next morning:

I thought that was Liz that called Michael "Mikey" while Maria was doing her best Alanis impression. Liz had asked Max to dance first, he said no, so she took "Mikey" instead. And then did an awkward dance with him two inches from the band. It was hilarious because it was like two gangly teenagers dancing to two different songs but still trying to look cool. 

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

And I didn't get the impression that until recently that Alex and Michael had done more than kiss.

I thought the flashback episode made it quite clear that Alex and Michael did the deed in the shed when they were in high school. That's when Alex's dad smashed his hand. There's big question marks after that but at least they got more action than Max/Liz ever have.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Callaphera

[shapeshifter]

5 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

thought that was Liz that called Michael "Mikey" while Maria was doing her best Alanis impression. 

Thank you! I will edit my post accordingly.

4 MINUTES AGO, CALLAPHERA SAID:

flashback episode made it quite clear that Alex and Michael did the deed in the shed when they were in high school. That's when Alex's dad smashed his hand

And this^ too! 

Edited March 28, 2019 by shapeshifter

[backhometome]

I dont think MM slept together before 1x09. I dont think they were FWB. 

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, Callaphera said:

I thought the flashback episode made it quite clear that Alex and Michael did the deed in the shed when they were in high school. That's when Alex's dad smashed his hand. There's big question marks after that but at least they got more action than Max/Liz ever have.

Yes, I thought so too. I thought it was obvious they had sex in the shed when they were teenagers. 

[Aliconehead]

3 hours ago, backhometome said:

I dont think MM slept together before 1x09. I dont think they were FWB. 

I don't think so either.  Maria said "this can't happen again." right after the sex and then again in the bar.  That is why i think Michael said, "you keep saying that"  I am fine with them being friends/sparring partners, I just think they need to integrate Maria more.  As of now Cameron gets more screen time then Maria.  Perhaps its because Heather was busy with other projects to begin with or something.  But this needs to change.  True pairs/true loves things don't concern me, but sidelining a major character for a minor one does.

[Jacks-Son]

13 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I thought the flashback episode made it quite clear that Alex and Michael did the deed in the shed when they were in high school. That's when Alex's dad smashed his hand. There's big question marks after that but at least they got more action than Max/Liz ever have.

It's not clear to me that Alex's dad walked in on them in the act, they could have been simply "fooling around".  Someone as homophobic as Alex's dad wouldn't need much evidence that his son was getting into an unofficially sanctioned relationship before smashing his son's hand.

[Callaphera]

1 hour ago, Jacks-Son said:

It's not clear to me that Alex's dad walked in on them in the act, they could have been simply "fooling around".  Someone as homophobic as Alex's dad wouldn't need much evidence that his son was getting into an unofficially sanctioned relationship before smashing his son's hand.

No, it appeared that Alex's dad walked in after the act was over and Alex and Michael were putting their clothes back on. That with the scene before - "Have you ever done this before?" - made it seem like they definitely did it.* Sure, you can argue that it was a pants-off dance-off makeout but that was all TV shorthand for "they did it, we're just not showing it". 

It was Michael's hand that was smashed, not Alex's. Because it was clearly Michael's fault that his son had gay sex in the shed, not Alex's, even though the signs were probably giant neon blinking arrows pointing to "YOUR SON IS GAY GAY GAY!" That doesn't matter, though, because you can ignore those signs but you can't ignore two boys re-dressing and giving each other that post-sex afterglow look. Also because no one cares about Michael and who's going to believe a teenage fuck-up versus a military man? And Alex could be saved by his father forcing him into what his father thought was the most heterosexual career possible: going soldierin' in teh war-zones. 

*I brought up the episode On Demand but it won't let me fast forward through to the part I want so screw that, I'm not sitting through it again. I'm going off of memory. Some wording/staging could be slightly off.

[Jacks-Son]

3 hours ago, Callaphera said:

*I brought up the episode On Demand but it won't let me fast forward through to the part I want so screw that, I'm not sitting through it again. I'm going off of memory. Some wording/staging could be slightly off.

Thanks for setting me straight (no pun intended), now I remember that comments were made about Michael's hand.  Asshole!  I had a much longer comment about THAT situation, (hand smashing) but it all boiled down to "He's an asshole!", so I cut it short.  Well, regardless if it was the 1st time or not, good for them.  Although, I'm still in the M&M corner, since that's my OG ideal. 

I really don't know what to make of this show.  I was really psyched for this reboot, but it's SO radically different, it's like a shock to my system.  Plus, the writers aren't making it any easier with their slipshod writing.  It seems as if they see the story in their heads but they are not on the same page in the execution.  Everyone is so blasé about aliens, perhaps because they live in Roswell, and aliens come with the territory but I just cannot accept the depiction of non-alien behavior.  I'm anxiously waiting for Maria to be clued in so I can see her reaction.  Will she freak out about "Space Boy" or find solace in the notion that perhaps her mom isn't crazy after all?

[Callaphera]

36 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Thanks for setting me straight (no pun intended), now I remember that comments were made about Michael's hand. 

Heh. 

I've got one of those freaky elephant memories where I can quote episodes of shows from 20 years ago almost verbatim with bonus props and set-dressing details but ask me where I put my keys and I have to tear the place apart three times over to find them exactly where I thought they were in the first place. I don't mean to sound super pedantic about the details, it's just that this show's episodes are pretty fresh in my memory still. 

36 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

 Everyone is so blasé about aliens, perhaps because they live in Roswell, and aliens come with the territory but I just cannot accept the depiction of non-alien behavior.  I'm anxiously waiting for Maria to be clued in so I can see her reaction.  Will she freak out about "Space Boy" or find solace in the notion that perhaps her mom isn't crazy after all?

I'd think, in a "normal" world, Maria would be pissed that no one clued her in to the reason why her mom was losing her mind including her two besties but honestly, they had Cameron make a joke about alien STDs, throw a little "fuck you and the spaceship you rode in on" towards Max, and then everything was hunky dory. Hell, Noah is married to one of the aliens and he was over it in about three minutes. So Maria will probably just blink a few times, sing a popular song from 1995, and continue on like nothing happened. I suggest something from Garbage this time. Stupid Girl? I'm Only Happy When it Rains?

Considering we're playing in a universe that has actualfax aliens, Maria actually being psychic wouldn't be that much of a stretch. How did she never figure it out before everyone else? I guess it's kinda like how psychics never win the lottery. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Callaphera

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I've got one of those freaky elephant memories where I can quote episodes of shows from 20 years ago almost verbatim with bonus props and set-dressing details but

Cool! I, OTOH, have always had a poor memory, but that also means I've learned to compensate, which is a really good thing as age and illnesses take their toll. So, I will be counting on your help here, @Callaphera 🙂 Please don't hesitate to correct any mistakes in our memories of what happened in these episodes!

4 hours ago, Callaphera said:

Considering we're playing in a universe that has actualfax aliens, Maria actually being psychic wouldn't be that much of a stretch. How did she never figure it out before everyone else? I guess it's kinda like how psychics never win the lottery. 

I too had been thinking Maria is supposed to really have psychic powers, based on some of the scenes, like in in this episode when Alex (I think?) seemed really surprised by something she said about what was on his mind.

I expect the writers to introduce some alien-related reason for Maria's abilities. Hopefully it will be cool and cement her as part of the Pod Squad without making her seem like a trick pony. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by shapeshifter

[Cristofle]

3 hours ago, Callaphera said:

I'd think, in a "normal" world, Maria would be pissed that no one clued her in to the reason why her mom was losing her mind including her two besties

I am a little surprised at this point that Liz hasn't brought Mimi up to Max yet, and that Alex seemed more concerned with Maria having slept with Michael than he is about her mother clearly having awareness of aliens and it seeming to be connected to her mental problems. There isn't a clear indication that the Pod Squad know what's going on with Mimi, only that she's sick somehow (especially Max and Isobel - Max didn't see Maria break down and wasn't at the table when she she talked about her mother losing her memories, and Isobel was in a pod, lol), but Liz and Alex definitely know. Especially Alex. 

[RachelKM]

13 hours ago, Cristofle said:

I am a little surprised at this point that Liz hasn't brought Mimi up to Max yet, and that Alex seemed more concerned with Maria having slept with Michael than he is about her mother clearly having awareness of aliens and it seeming to be connected to her mental problems. There isn't a clear indication that the Pod Squad know what's going on with Mimi, only that she's sick somehow (especially Max and Isobel - Max didn't see Maria break down and wasn't at the table when she she talked about her mother losing her memories, and Isobel was in a pod, lol), but Liz and Alex definitely know. Especially Alex. 

I'm not really all that surprised nor do I think it's particularly odd that neither Liz nor Alex has thought there was a connection between there being real aliens being in Roswell and Mimi's issues for the very fact that they live in Roswell. 

We as the audience know that it is unlikely that Mimi, a  psychic on a show set in a town with real aliens and who has delusions involving aliens', condition is unrelated to the the real fact of their being aliens and that it is likely plot relevant. But there is no reason for the characters to assume that.  They live in a town where aliens conspiracies and full nut-bar believers are the basis of their tourist economy.  Cognitive struggle with a side of alien lore is de rigueur in Roswell.  And Mimi's reference always come back to Independence Day.  

Liz even suspected Mimi might actually have some insight.  But then Mimi reference the plot of the movie again.  Other than the fact that Independence Day was still a very popular movie around the time Max, Isobel, and Michael exited their pods, there isn't much about what Mimi has said that indicates any connection to them.

Edited March 29, 2019 by RachelKM

[Jenniferbug]

I was just thinking yesterday about Maria's potential psychic abilities. We know nothing about her father, right? It would tie her to the pod squad and explain her mother's issues. 

[RachelKM]

26 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

I was just thinking yesterday about Maria's potential psychic abilities. We know nothing about her father, right? It would tie her to the pod squad and explain her mother's issues. 

If you mean that her father is an alien, I guess it's possible.  But it would mean that the fourth alien was out and about well before our three.  Maria is as old as or possibly a year or two older than Max, Isobel, and Michael.  They were 7 or 8 when they emerged which would have been well after Maria was born.

I may have miss understood, but I got the impression Mimi is also psychic.  

[Jenniferbug]

36 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

If you mean that her father is an alien, I guess it's possible.  But it would mean that the fourth alien was out and about well before our three.  Maria is as old as or possibly a year or two older than Max, Isobel, and Michael.  They were 7 or 8 when they emerged which would have been well after Maria was born.

I may have miss understood, but I got the impression Mimi is also psychic.  

Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry, was posting at work so didn't elaborate as much as I should have! 

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of there possibly being more than 4 total or that the 4th alien was never in a pod. Like Maria's dad could have been someone else on the ship who was never in a pod. Someone had to put their pods in the cave to keep them safe before they emerged. I don't think we've been told how the pods ended up in the caves, have we? So I guess I figured there were possibly others (similar to Nasedo from the original), especially since we heard about the old healer woman on the reservation who was indicated to be an alien. We know there's at least a 4th alien because of the murders, but there could be even more who escaped and were never caught by the Manes/Valenti task force (though I hope they don't go too crazy with that). It seems reasonable to assume that the 4th alien probably appeared around the same time as Max, Michael, and Isobel but we don't know if that alien would also have been a child or if they came from a pod. They could have been an adult who landed later rather than crashed. I don't remember- when did the murders start? It seems like with Mimi and Jim had some firsthand knowledge of aliens, so I think they may have interacted with one before, who was likely a peer of theirs and not a child.

I'm not super attached to any of my theorizing, it just crossed my mind when I was thinking about Maria and what could tie her into the story more in future episodes. 

I had forgotten that her mother was also psychic so that throws a wrench in my "her dad could be an alien" theory! I'm not sure what to think about Mimi. 

@Jacks-Son, I was pretty much the opposite of you- it's funny to me how I wasn't looking forward to this show at all, and now I love it. I didn't really get why Roswell needed a reboot and wasn't planning to watch, but happened to catch the first episode on the CW app after watching The Flash and ended up really enjoying it. Now this is one of the shows I look forward to the most each week. I'm not under the illusion that it's flawless, but for whatever reason, I adore it! 

[Jacks-Son]

@Jenniferbug, I like the story, but this show is jumbling everything up to the point that it loses some non-alien normalcy.  So far, nobody seems to be asking the BIG questions, except for perhaps Alex, who has a little bit of an investment in it.  Nobody seems to ask Where are they from and why are they here?  Sure, none of the aliens know the answer to this, but that shouldn't stop the Pod Squad from asking.  If someone I've known for years, tells me they are an alien, my first thought is to question their sanity and if they insist, I would demand proof.  Once proof was given, then I'm on the floor in shock.  That kind of news should knock someone off their feet, not make them think to ask if they were given some alien STD.  If that's your first thought, then it was all about the sex. Cameron found out what the big secret was and there she is presented with an ALIEN!!!  The implications of alien life forms existing, having powers, and looking Human are too big to just put THAT news in relation to your immediate experiences.  "Oh, wow!  You're an actual alien; that's a shock, did you give me an alien STD?"  Or, "Oh wow, you can control people's minds, did you make me buy this sweater?"  Dude, your wife is an alien, forget the sweater, there are more important questions to ask.  A little more reality would help sell this show.  Maria's reaction to Liz' news about the Evans and Guerins in OG Roswell were about right.  Run from the Crashdown and freak out.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[phoenics]

On 3/28/2019 at 6:06 AM, shapeshifter said:

Regarding Michael's current feelings for Maria:

I did not get that impression after this exchange:
[Maria]: I never would have slept with you if I knew you two had history. It can't happen again. 
[Michael]: You keep saying that.
Michael's parting line of "You keep saying that" implied to me that he and Maria had been friends with benefits before. If this were 1999, the fledgling Michael-Maria shippers would be swooning over animated fan-generated gifs of that line.

But this is the era of #MeToo, and I like to think writers have been schooled to recognize when a character is not honoring another character's right to say "no" for whatever reason.

Still, a woman (or a man) has a right to change their mind, so maybe Michael is just refering to Maria having a past habit of saying she's not going to do the beast with two backs with Michael again, but then she changes her mind.
In the previous episode, Maria initiated contact with "Dance with me, Mikey." Then in the desert the next morning:
[Maria]: It'll never happen again.
[Michael]: Right. Totally.

So I figure during Alex's 2 tours of duty that M&M were hooking up at least occasionally, but that—like Max and Cameron—it was "casual"
—which, in my experience, if it goes on long enough, never stays "casual."

And I didn't get the impression that until recently that Alex and Michael had done more than kiss.<--wrong:

I didn't get the impression that Michael/Maria had done it before - I got the impression that Michael's "You keep saying that." was more him saying that Maria keeps saying that, but he knows she's attracted to him and he's attracted to her, so it's DEFINITELY gonna happen again.

The idea that he only went to the bar in search of beer and banter seems really far fetched to me.

[RachelKM]

56 minutes ago, phoenics said:

The idea that he only went to the bar in search of beer and banter seems really far fetched to me.

I don't think it's far fetched.  But I guess that depends on what you consider "banter."   Since the premiere, their banter seemed kind of flirty.  I think Michael went to Maria to flirt and banter and drink and NOT THINK ABOUT ALEX or think about Alex being hurt if he left.  I don't think Michael was necessarily looking for more than talking, though I don't think he would have steered the interaction away from sex if she seemed open, I think he just wanted to flirt with someone whom he doesn't think he can hurt or be hurt by. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by RachelKM

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

The idea that he only went to the bar in search of beer and banter seems really far fetched to me.

1 hour ago, RachelKM said:

I don't think it's far fetched.  But I guess that depends on what you consider "banter."   Since the premiere, their banter seemed kind of flirty.  I think Michael went to Maria to flirt and banter and drink and NOT THINK ABOUT ALEX or think about Alex being hurt if he left.  I don't think Michael was necessarily looking for more than talking, though I don't think he would have steered the interaction away from sex if she seemed open, I think he just wanted to flirt with someone whom he doesn't think he can hurt or be hurt by. 

I know I'm old when I cannot see a difference between these two interpretations of Michael's motive to go chat up Maria.

[Jacks-Son]

As an old person myself, my opinion is that with most people, sex, isn't that far from people's thoughts.  Whether Michael intended to go to the bar to try for the double, or not, sex was on his mind, maybe not at the forefront. Whether it was the sex he had earlier with Maria, or the epic sex he may no longer have with Alex, it makes no difference.  Now, we can't know what he thought about exactly, that's up to him to explain and really we don't need to know exactly what he may or may not have intended.  Our efforts to delve into his psyche is just our attempt to "define" Michael.  Is he a jerk, user, kind, misunderstood, narcissistic, violent, sensitive, etc. 

He went to talk to Maria, that's understandable given their past (obviously there was a past going by their banter at the tent site); they find each other attractive (when Michael is down wind, of course) and they JUST had sex (obviously THAT should still be on his mind).  In all likelihood Michael was aware of the possibility of re-engaging, he likes sex, he likes bantering, why NOT engage if the possibility is there?  Sex is a good thing here, it's not something to be avoided, abused, demanded, or demonized.  Is Michael a worse person if WE thought he went looking for sex from Maria? Well, that's our reaction.  Michael is what he is.  Me, after having sex with someone that hot, I'd be seriously dropping the ball if I don't at least think about it and if presented, accept graciously.  Forgive me, if it's TMI.

[Callaphera]

18 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Michael is what he is.  Me, after having sex with someone that hot, I'd be seriously dropping the ball if I don't at least think about it and if presented, accept graciously.  Forgive me, if it's TMI. (trimmed for relevant quote only)

Depends on if it's good or not. Dude can be as hot as the sun but if he don't know what he's doing, what's the point? Drunken hookups are questionable, though, and sometimes require a second, sober romp depending on the level of drunkenosity and memory. 

Clearly, though, that has no bearing on this because TV sex is always amazeballs and life affirming and Dear Penthouse, I never thought I would be writing this but this totally happened to me unless it's unwanted or played for laughs and it was neither in this case. 

Personally, I think Michael was hoping for the hook-up but also the booze (free because I've seen you naked now!) and while I don't raise an eyebrow about being able to go from one partner to the next so quickly - none of the three are exclusive - I do raise an eyebrow over the fact that he knows Maria and Alex are besties which means he's only thinking of himself and neither should be tapping that because that's just going to turn into a toxic situation for the friends and possibly whichever combination of lovers it ends up being. But again real life =/= TV so chances are they're both going to sleep with him within a 12 hour period soon and everybody gonna hate everybody for five minutes before we move on with a quip or two. 

4 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

 Run from the Crashdown and freak out.

...hey, whatever happened to that place? At least it was more plausible for people to walk in and out of there for conversations than it was for them to wander into Liz's magical research lab that has no security features whatsoever. I miss the antennae headbands. 

[Jacks-Son]

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Depends on if it's good or not. Dude can be as hot as the sun but if he don't know what he's doing, what's the point? Drunken hookups are questionable, though, and sometimes require a second, sober romp depending on the level of drunkenosity and memory. 

Obviously, if it sucked, the last thing you would want to do is continually think about it and seek out more of the suckitude

3 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Personally, I think Michael was hoping for the hook-up but also the booze (free because I've seen you naked now!) and while I don't raise an eyebrow about being able to go from one partner to the next so quickly - none of the three are exclusive - I do raise an eyebrow over the fact that he knows Maria and Alex are besties which means he's only thinking of himself and neither should be tapping that because that's just going to turn into a toxic situation for the friends and possibly whichever combination of lovers it ends up being.

There's also the FREE BOOZE <Neon Lights Flashing>. However, I'm not sure he knew Maria knew how he felt about Alex until their conversation.  It appeared that she surmised/empathically  arrived at that situation through clues, and while I can accept her outright declaring that there would be no repeat (where did she get the impression that sex was his aim?), I think Michael understands.  He may have stormed off in a huff because she turned him down on the Sex OR the Booze.  We have no way of knowing that and it would again call for our judging Michael.  Strangely, we judge Michael, but not Max, while Max loves Liz and wants her bad, he still was benefiting from his partnership with Cameron and we don't judge him for that.  Scratching post, indeed!

[Callaphera]

8 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

  Strangely, we judge Michael, but not Max, while Max loves Liz and wants her bad, he still was benefiting from his partnership with Cameron and we don't judge him for that.  Scratching post, indeed!

It's less messy. Cameron and Liz aren't friends like Maria and Alex, who were best friends from high school* when Maria wasn't being best friends with emo Rosa when Liz would ditch her. Cameron and Liz probably don't even nod at each other at the grocery store. No matter what, a friend is going to be hurt by a friend in the Michael/Alex/Maria triangle (unless they all go their separate ways) whereas if Max picks Cameron or Liz over the other, it isn't going to break up a decade long friendship**.

* The episode with Maria's mom made it seem like Maria, Alex, and Liz were really close in high school even though we know Maria was really close with Rosa but Rosa didn't hang with Alex and Liz and wow, they really should have nailed down the relationships better.

** I can't argue Max and Liz being that close of friends. He had a thing for her, sure. She was friends with him, sure. But I don't think it's played in the same way that Maria, Alex, and Liz were supposedly a close-knit group of friends when Maria wasn't too busy being Rosa's only friend when Liz was too busy studying. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Callaphera
added an extra * point

[RachelKM]

3 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

Strangely, we judge Michael, but not Max, while Max loves Liz and wants her bad, he still was benefiting from his partnership with Cameron and we don't judge him for that.  Scratching post, indeed!

I don't really judge Michael, per se, whatever his goal in seeing Maria.  But I don't find the situations directly comparable. To the extent that I have any issue with Michael's behavior in the Alex/Michael/Maria situation, it's that he is aware of the relationship between Alex and Maria.  Michael hasn't made or even been expected to make an exclusive commitment to either of them.  But DL hookups with BFFs is a touch shady.

In the case of Max, he was not in any sort of relationship with Liz, by her own decree, when he was sleeping with Cameron.  And Cameron, up until the almost date, didn't have any thoughts about them doing anything more than scratching an itch.  Max's behavior at the Drive-in was sort of shitty.  But there was no lying and Liz and Cameron have no relationship that might be impacted by Max.

Edited March 30, 2019 by RachelKM

[Jacks-Son]

Friendship isn't really the primary consideration.  Liz was back in Roswell, Max was excited, and happy about it.  He was "back" in love or realized that he never stopped loving Liz.  Knowing all this presently, he still was sleeping with Cameron.  Not to say he should sever all sexual activity with Cameron now that Liz is back, but it took Cameron to be the one to call TOD. And I didn't hear the outcry about Max double-dipping or at least trying to.

[Callaphera]

9 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

 And I didn't hear the outcry about Max double-dipping or at least trying to.

Because (duh!) Max and Liz are endgame written in the stars fated lovers and it doesn't matter who they sleep with or whose murder they cover up, they're always going to end up together. You can't say that for this version of Michael. 

Also Max was full-on rejected by Liz when he went back to Cameron. Alex just... got weird and went for a walk away from Michael. Two completely different situations. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Callaphera

[Jacks-Son]

2 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Because (duh!) Max and Liz are endgame written in the stars fated lovers and it doesn't matter who they sleep with or whose murder they cover up, they're always going to end up together. You can't say that for this version of Michael. 

You admit then that there is a difference in the way we view the two, even with something like who they are sleeping with?  Max and Liz are OTP?  Not having read the books, who is to say that Michael and Maria are not OTP or Michael and Alex?  This version is different than OG and even the books.  We're at the mercy of the whims of the writers and anything is possible.  Are Isobel and Noah OTP?? I don't even get the sense that they actually love each other, or the writers are deliberately soft-selling their relationship.  No man finds his wife in an egg and doesn't demand to know what's going on from her brother for WEEKS!

I think our opinion, whether conscious or not, is colored by the OG version of Michael.  The unkempt, hygienically-challenged, bad boy.  That Michael was a hot-headed idiot, prone to violence, and deception.  This Michael is a brilliant, hygienically-challenged confused boy who likes booze and sex, no matter where it comes from.

[Callaphera]

33 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

You admit then that there is a difference in the way we view the two, even with something like who they are sleeping with?  Max and Liz are OTP? 

I mean, it was meant to be a joking line more than anything but yes, Max/Liz is obvious. Even if there weren't for the OG fans farting hearts the Max/Liz way, the marketing is of Max/Liz in each other's arms while staring into each other's eyes and dramatically lit from a desert sunset when I check out the show on my television's on-screen guide/On Demand and the commercials made it pretty obvious that this whole thing is basically a love story between Max/Liz. Even if you miss the marketing, watching the show and having Max and Liz be the two main main characters make it kinda obvious.

And yes, in this case, I am viewing them differently because Max/Liz, no matter what speed bumps or spoilers or sisters that die, will always end up together in the end. When Max was sleeping with Cameron, Liz told Max she was off the market. It wasn't like he was making out with Liz and then going to bang Cameron. If he was, I would be calling him out. 

Is Michael doing anything wrong? Not necessarily. But funny enough, he's the one paired with both and he's the one who looks the worst out of the whole situation. 

33 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

I think our opinion, whether conscious or not, is colored by the OG version of Michael.  The unkempt, hygienically-challenged, bad boy.  That Michael was a hot-headed idiot, prone to violence, and deception.  This Michael is a brilliant, hygienically-challenged confused boy who likes booze and sex, no matter where it comes from.

I didn't watch OG long enough to get through the first season so no, I would argue that my opinion isn't coloured by OG Michael. I think I peaced out after a few episodes. My opinion is coloured by what I see on the show and then what I read here after the fact. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by Callaphera

[Jacks-Son]

Okay, I've watched OG several times, and I'm aware of the Liz/Max relationship, I'm just saying that we don't know what curveball these writers have planned.  Shit, who knew that Michael would be Gay or that he would be involved with Alex??  It does allow us to speculate on relationships and impacts, which is a good thing. I just think we should allow for some adjustments in what to expect from each character.  That goes for me also.  I keep judging Noah for his lack of aggression with regard to his wife, but who knows, maybe he secretly felt apart from her and was sort of glad she was out of his life or maybe the writers just don't know what the fuck to do with his character or how to write him.  Some of us were horrified at the thought of Isobel being a serial killer and that possibility was strange.  We immediately surmised that she was mind-controlled, OUR Isobel could not be a serial killer.  That would suck and ruin our version of the story. We judged her on her OG character and the fact that the writers couldn't possibly make Isobel a serial killer, it doesn't make sense.

As far as not having watched OG, then I applaud your decision to not go back to compare and see this as a fresh perspective on an old tale.  Unfortunately, almost all of these posters have either read the books or watched OG, so our opinion of Michael may be colored by our past experiences in life OR in this story.

[phoenics]

My opinion is colored by Michael knowing Alex/Maria are like besties, but still he's messing with both of them - forcing MARIA to be the grownup and stepping away from him.  Michael went to that bar hoping for the three b's.  Booze, banter and banging. 

And when Maria mentioned her friendship with Alex, Michael looked completely unfazed like "What's that got to do with me?"  He didn't care.  So Maria made it plain by saying she never would have slept with him if she'd known of his history with Alex.  And that it couldn't happen again.  That's when Michael said, "You keep saying that...I got it."  But he looked disappointed and like he didn't really believe her (like the lady doth protest too much).  

Maybe he just wanted a distraction or maybe he just wanted Maria - the point is - he was playing with fire and he definitely wasn't thinking about putting Alex first.  Contrast that with Max, who didn't move again in Cam's direction unless Liz 1000% rejected him - when she left it vague or he thought he had a shot still, he was still focused on Liz and Cam was paid dust.

Michael isn't behaving that way, is my main point.  He's not behaving as if Alex is it for him.

Also - I agree with others.  While I still think MV was uncomfortable in his trailer sex scene with TB's Alex, I do think TB's portrayal of Alex in his "regular" non-sex scenes with MV's Michael are leaving me cold.  MV is a chemistry factory, and maybe part of the reason I thought his chemistry with Maria flowed off the charts (and still does) is because HH's Maria isn't fighting him on the chemistry front.  Maybe it's the direction with TB?  Maybe he's supposed to look unsure, and like he's ready to bolt at any time in scenes with Michael?  Are we supposed to read that as him having walls up?

[peachmangosteen]

16 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

@Jacks-Son, I was pretty much the opposite of you- it's funny to me how I wasn't looking forward to this show at all, and now I love it. I didn't really get why Roswell needed a reboot and wasn't planning to watch, but happened to catch the first episode on the CW app after watching The Flash and ended up really enjoying it. Now this is one of the shows I look forward to the most each week. I'm not under the illusion that it's flawless, but for whatever reason, I adore it! 

This is me.

7 hours ago, phoenics said:

While I still think MV was uncomfortable in his trailer sex scene with TB's Alex, I do think TB's portrayal of Alex in his "regular" non-sex scenes with MV's Michael are leaving me cold.  MV is a chemistry factory, and maybe part of the reason I thought his chemistry with Maria flowed off the charts (and still does) is because HH's Maria isn't fighting him on the chemistry front.  Maybe it's the direction with TB?  Maybe he's supposed to look unsure, and like he's ready to bolt at any time in scenes with Michael?  Are we supposed to read that as him having walls up?

Yea, I'm starting to think TB may be being directed to be apprehensive and wooden to show Alex's walls and damage or whatever. And as I've said, I do think it makes sense, but they seem to be trying to sell Alex/Michael on 'mad chemistry leading to super hot sex' alone so it really doesn't work at all when they have TB looking uncomfortable most of the time lol.

[Cristofle]

23 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I'm not really all that surprised nor do I think it's particularly odd that neither Liz nor Alex has thought there was a connection between there being real aliens being in Roswell and Mimi's issues for the very fact that they live in Roswell. 

We as the audience know that it is unlikely that Mimi, a  psychic on a show set in a town with real aliens and who has delusions involving aliens', condition is unrelated to the the real fact of their being aliens and that it is likely plot relevant. But there is no reason for the characters to assume that.  They live in a town where aliens conspiracies and full nut-bar believers are the basis of their tourist economy.  Cognitive struggle with a side of alien lore is de rigueur in Roswell.  And Mimi's reference always come back to Independence Day.  

Liz even suspected Mimi might actually have some insight.  But then Mimi reference the plot of the movie again.  Other than the fact that Independence Day was still a very popular movie around the time Max, Isobel, and Michael exited their pods, there isn't much about what Mimi has said that indicates any connection to them.

I think that might work for Liz, given the Independence Day thing. I'm less persuaded by Alex - he knows she was right that: he had "touched something from another world", that his father had known about it, and that Jim Valenti had known about it. 

Incidentally, given this episode, I'm unclear if Mimi was correct that "Isobel" told Rosa about the alien thing? That certainly isn't why Rosa was killed - the 4th alien became quickly aware that she was horrified by the deaths of the girls (and I sort of got the impression during the monologue about Rosa wanting a man who was strong that Rosa realized who was possessing Isobel). When he first said he wasn't Isobel, Rosa rolled her eyes and said Isobel was higher than she was. Rosa seemed freaked out by Isobel because she thought Isobel was in love with her and she didn't feel the same way, not because she knew Isobel was an alien- not until the very last second.

[shapeshifter]

I keep coming back to us seeing Alex with the piece of space ship he has hidden *after* this revelation he has from Michael (from the transcript, so I'm not sure who said "The planet"):

   [ALEX]: You built this thing?

   [MICHAEL]: Sort of. It kind of builds itself. Pieces want to be together.

   [ALEX]: What do you mean they want to be?

   [MICHAEL]: When they fit, the molecules knit together on contact.
                      It's like it was never broken at all. If I can find the rest,
                      I can attach this to a vehicle - and -

   [ALEX]: A vehicle? You're trying to leave.
               The planet. I, uh I think I need a little time to process all of this.

Surely this will be revisited, and Alex hiding a piece of the ship from Michael cannot be good for any kind of relationship they have.
And what if the piece falls into others' hands?
I mean, if someone hid the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle, the puzzle doer would be annoyed. So, multiply that by a gazillion, right?

[phoenics]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I keep coming back to us seeing Alex with the piece of space ship he has hidden *after* this revelation he has from Michael (from the transcript, so I'm not sure who said "The planet"):

   [ALEX]: You built this thing?

   [MICHAEL]: Sort of. It kind of builds itself. Pieces want to be together.

   [ALEX]: What do you mean they want to be?

   [MICHAEL]: When they fit, the molecules knit together on contact.
                      It's like it was never broken at all. If I can find the rest,
                      I can attach this to a vehicle - and -

   [ALEX]: A vehicle? You're trying to leave.
               The planet. I, uh I think I need a little time to process all of this.

Surely this will be revisited, and Alex hiding a piece of the ship from Michael cannot be good for any kind of relationship they have.
And what if the piece falls into others' hands?
I mean, if someone hid the last piece of a jigsaw puzzle, the puzzle doer would be annoyed. So, multiply that by a gazillion, right?

Yeah this is definitely going to come back to haunt Alex - but I could easily see Michael forgiving this because Alex is only hiding it because he doesn't want Michael to leave.  I dunno - I hope they don't play this cliche out.  Having Michael be angry at Alex for hiding the piece of spaceship is dumb (especially if they play that as a reason for Michael to run to Maria and ESPECIALLY if Alex's motives are just that he loves Michael and doesn't want him to leave).  Ugh - I hate how this triangle is likely going to play out.  I hate seeing Maria played to get leftovers.

The worst part is I don't know who they'd pair Maria with aside from Michael.  I hate feeling like I'm being set up to see Maria eventually cast aside and marginalized.

[Jacks-Son]

18 hours ago, phoenics said:

My opinion is colored by Michael knowing Alex/Maria are like besties, but still he's messing with both of them - forcing MARIA to be the grownup and stepping away from him.  Michael went to that bar hoping for the three b's.  Booze, banter and banging. 

See, this is where my confusion lies. Unless you're familiar with the books or the old TV show, this series hasn't really gone out of its way to demonstrate that Maria and Alex are besties.  Also, although Maria and Michael may or may not have had a sexual relationship in the past, they sure act like there was something there. Their banter at the tent site and later on at the nightclub when she was singing, she was all over Michael.  So, M&M show a familiarity, sex-wise AND she's besties with Alex? Are we sure, that Michael is infringing on an established friendship of Alex and Maria or are the lines being blurred by both Alex AND Maria? Is this just because she deduced that Michael has feelings for Alex and that she wouldn't have had sex knowing how he felt about her bestie? Has her bestie ever given any indication that he liked Michael? Don't besties tell each other shit? Michael didn't force Maria into sex. Out in the desert, he claims he kissed her to shut her up because of her incessant prattling and to tell her something and she sort of kissed him back and everything began.  I'm not placing the blame on Maria, but they were both willing partners. Kyle figured out that Alex was trying to save his boyfriend, so there must have been some suspicion that Alex fancied Michael in town, and Maria, "Ms. Clairvoyant", couldn't discern that her bestie was hiding something from her?

Edited March 31, 2019 by Jacks-Son

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Having Michael be angry at Alex for hiding the piece of spaceship is dumb (especially if they play that as a reason for Michael to run to Maria and ESPECIALLY if Alex's motives are just that he loves Michael and doesn't want him to leave).  Ugh - I hate how this triangle is likely going to play out.  I hate seeing Maria played to get leftovers.

Yeah. I'd prefer the last minute trope of Alex racing to get the space ship piece to Michael for some life or death reason, but that could still end with the trope of Maria being the winner of the contest to be Michael's lover because of Alex being disqualified. That isn't great in bicycle races, and worse in soul mates.

I don't know why I torture myself with these star crossed love shows. I had way too much of it in my own youth; just because I can relate doesn't mean I want to see it played out again, regardless of the outcome. But I'm still in for the long haul--at this point. 

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

See, this is where my confusion lies. Unless you're familiar with the books or the old TV show, this series hasn't really gone out of its way to demonstrate that Maria and Alex are besties.  Also, although Maria and Michael may or may not have had a sexual relationship in the past, they sure act like there was something there. Their banter at the tent site and later on at the nightclub when she was singing, she was all over Michael.  So, M&M show a familiarity, sex-wise AND she's besties with Alex? Are we sure, that Michael is infringing on an established friendship of Alex and Maria or are the lines being blurred by both Alex AND Maria? Is this just because she deduced that Michael has feelings for Alex and that she wouldn't have had sex knowing how he felt about her bestie? Has her bestie ever given any indication that he liked Michael? Don't besties tell each other shit? Michael didn't force Maria into sex. Out in the desert, he claims he kissed her to shut her up because of her incessant prattling and to tell her something and she sort of kissed him back and everything began.  I'm not placing the blame on Maria, but they were both willing partners. Kyle figured out that Alex was trying to save his boyfriend, so there must have been some suspicion that Alex fancied Michael in town, and Maria, "Ms. Clairvoyant", couldn't discern that her bestie was hiding something from her?

I don't know if you missed this in previous episodes but Alex told Maria about Michael - he just never told her his name.  All he would tell her about was the "mystery man at the museum".  And that he wouldn't have gone to war if only the mystery guy "kept kissing him".  So Maria knew Alex was very into someone from like high school but she just didn't know WHO until this episode.  And now she knows that not only is Michael that guy from the museum, but Alex is STILL into him.

Also - no one is saying that Maria wasn't a willing partner - but the fact remains that she would never have slept with Michael had she known he was Alex's mystery man.  She knew how important he was to Alex - so that's a line she wouldn't have crossed.

Michael is the one who looks like an ass for knowingly stepping between two people he knew were good friends.

[Jacks-Son]

5 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Michael is the one who looks like an ass for knowingly stepping between two people he knew were good friends.

Okay, I may not have been paying attention.  Thanks.  When did Michael "knowingly step between good friends?

[Callaphera]

2 hours ago, Jacks-Son said:

See, this is where my confusion lies. Unless you're familiar with the books or the old TV show, this series hasn't really gone out of its way to demonstrate that Maria and Alex are besties.  

That whole episode with Maria's mom was basically going out of their way to show the connection between Liz, Alex, and Maria. They talked about how Maria's mom used to drive the three of them places, how Maria's mom was happy to see the three of them together. Maria's mom may have confused Liz for Rosa at points and she may have been expecting Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum to show up between the diner and the drive-in but I don't think her Touched by an Alien brain was making up the teenage friendship between the trio. 

6 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Also - no one is saying that Maria wasn't a willing partner - but the fact remains that she would never have slept with Michael had she known he was Alex's mystery man.  She knew how important he was to Alex - so that's a line she wouldn't have crossed.

This. As soon as Maria knew who Alex was in love with all these years, she apologized and stepped back. And when she saw Michael, she made sure to make it clear to him that she was in the know and that she wasn't going to hurt her relationship with her friend. 

3 hours ago, phoenics said:

The worst part is I don't know who they'd pair Maria with aside from Michael. 

Kyle's cheekbones have been very lonely lately. Unless they're saving him for Cameron but the idea leaves me kinda cold. But logically, they could pair the spares. 

[Jacks-Son]

24 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

That whole episode with Maria's mom was basically going out of their way to show the connection between Liz, Alex, and Maria. They talked about how Maria's mom used to drive the three of them places, how Maria's mom was happy to see the three of them together. Maria's mom may have confused Liz for Rosa at points and she may have been expecting Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum to show up between the diner and the drive-in but I don't think her Touched by an Alien brain was making up the teenage friendship between the trio. 

I am suitably chastised.  <walks away with tail between his legs>

[phoenics]

43 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Kyle's cheekbones have been very lonely lately. Unless they're saving him for Cameron but the idea leaves me kinda cold. But logically, they could pair the spares. 

This would just be Maria getting Liz's leftovers.

Like I said - they really screwed Maria by giving away her canon love interest.  There isn't anyone else she can be paired with without an ick factor.

[Callaphera]

2 minutes ago, phoenics said:

This would just be Maria getting Liz's leftovers.

I never thought of that. But to be honest, at the moment my preferred outcome is Maria being badass on her own, Alex being badass on his own, and Michael standing there all "WTF just happened?". 

[Jacks-Son]

Here's a cheery thought: "Isn't everybody someone's leftover?"

[Cristofle]

18 hours ago, phoenics said:

This would just be Maria getting Liz's leftovers.

Like I said - they really screwed Maria by giving away her canon love interest.  There isn't anyone else she can be paired with without an ick factor.

Eh, I haven't gotten an indication Liz was ever seriously emotionally attached to Kyle (unlike Alex re: Michael) so I still wouldn't be opposed to chem testing Kyle and Maria. But you definitely have a point that Maria has been effectively sidelined by Alex being written as the love of Michael's life, and Carina hasn't yet indicated a way that she will bring her into the fold in a significant manner. As it is, she is officially the last main cast member to find out about the Pod Squad, and is even behind Cameron. 

[Jacks-Son]

Checked with IMDB and I'm still unsure who Carina is.  Which one is she?  Maybe the cute fake faith healer has a brother.  The show could use a Brother or two on the cast.  Maybe even an Alien African-American male.  The Syfy show 'Siren", has African-American Mermaids.

[tessaray]

Carina is Carina Adly MacKenzie, the show's creator.  

[shapeshifter]

24 minutes ago, Jacks-Son said:

Checked with IMDB and I'm still unsure who Carina is.  Which one is she?  Maybe the cute fake faith healer has a brother.  The show could use a Brother or two on the cast.  Maybe even an Alien African-American male.  The Syfy show 'Siren", has African-American Mermaids.

12 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Carina is Carina Adly MacKenzie, the show's creator.  

See also:

• https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6092900/
• https://twitter.com/cadlymack

She does not have a Wikipedia page.

[Jacks-Son]

Thanks.  Didn't think to look beyond the cast.