S02.E10: Blood of Patriots

[legaleagle53]

On 3/10/2019 at 9:42 PM, shapeshifter said:

Perhaps we'll even see a Romeo and Juliet type romance between a Krill and one of the Union races. I can picture them in Victorian wedding garb now. ;>)

Wrong century, country, and city.  Romeo and Juliet lived in 14th-Century Verona, Italy, not 19th-Century London, England.

[Cress]

I liked this episode better than Identity part 2. Good dramatic tension even though it was predictable that the "daughter" was the weapon Oren was using. I was surprised that she wasn't his daughter and was a different species. But then that makes a plothole. If Oren's real daughter died along with his wife, then why do the Krill think he still has a daughter? They said they only wanted to extradite Oren, not his daughter. But they didn't seem surprised or asked, "What daughter? He doesn't have a daughter?" Oh well.

Again with Ed's one on one talks with admirals, but at least they said this is just a preliminary agreement, not the actual peace treaty that will be negotiated later by real diplomats.

Quote

Someone also mentioned throwaway lines and consequences for Isaac. Did you see him at the ceremony? He wasn't standing with those to whom he'd been closest and there was a great deal of space around him and the rest of the crowd. It's a subtle indication that he is alone, totally. And that is the consequence and quite possibly a seed planted for future episodes/storylines

Actually what I thought watching the episode was "Isaac is barely in this and barely has any lines, so why he couldn't be on Earth right now in jail?" I want consequences as in actual punishment in jail or demoting him from his job on the bridge. Not just social ostracizing in general or being out of Claire's family life. Sorry, I don't want subtle, I want explicit punishment. I do understand that the show doesn't want to lose the actor, but there are other ways to keep him while actually acknowledging that the character is responsible for a lot of casualties that can't be erased just because he did the right thing in the end.

I did like Yaphit getting an award, though.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Cress

[DarkRaichu]

39 minutes ago, Cress said:

Actually what I thought watching the episode was "Isaac is barely in this and barely has any lines, so why he couldn't be on Earth right now in jail?" I want consequences as in actual punishment in jail or demoting him from his job on the bridge. Not just social ostracizing in general or being out of Claire's family life. Sorry, I don't want subtle, I want explicit punishment. I do understand that the show doesn't want to lose the actor, but there are other ways to keep him while actually acknowledging that the character is responsible for a lot of casualties that can't be erased just because he did the right thing in the end.

This is just a speculation on my part, but the Union does not seem to recognize the idea of using punishment as consequence of actions. 

[Emma9]

14 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

The shuttle doesn't have torpedo launchers, as was pointed out.  The plan was probably to surrender, allow themselves to be brought on board, and open the canisters inside or to use them to blow up the shuttle sufficiently close to a Krill ship.

That makes sense for his plan at the end, but still begs the question of how the previous attacks worked.

[Bort]

13 minutes ago, Emma9 said:

That makes sense for his plan at the end, but still begs the question of how the previous attacks worked.

Oren was in a Krill shuttle that had torpedo bays. The Orville crew mentioned when the shuttle came aboard that the bays were empty. 

[Ottis]

18 hours ago, Emma9 said:

The trouble was, if the Union believed and supported Orrin's statement that he didn't attack the Krill ships at all, I don't know if tacking on a "...but he would have been justified in doing so even if he did" would have strengthened their position.

Maybe it would have. But that thread being dropped from the plot made sense to me once Orrin's plans were revealed.

My post was about Orrin's comment that, because he was a prisoner, he didn't know there was a ceasefire when he attacked the Krill ships. Maybe noting that would have strengthened the Union's position, maybe not. But it deserved attention by the show.  They put the Orville in an almost impossible diplomatic position and no one even mentioned something that Orrin has said that could have been useful in the negotiations.

Having us then see that Orrin was bent on revenge should have had no impact on whether Seth's captain should have passed along that bit of info after he heard it, or on what the Union might have done. At the very least, throw in a line noting it and then noting why it was ignored and/or wrong, is all I'm saying.

[ketose]

6 hours ago, Cress said:

I liked this episode better than Identity part 2. Good dramatic tension even though it was predictable that the "daughter" was the weapon Oren was using. I was surprised that she wasn't his daughter and was a different species. But then that makes a plothole. If Oren's real daughter died along with his wife, then why do the Krill think he still has a daughter? They said they only wanted to extradite Oren, not his daughter. But they didn't seem surprised or asked, "What daughter? He doesn't have a daughter?" Oh well.

Again with Ed's one on one talks with admirals, but at least they said this is just a preliminary agreement, not the actual peace treaty that will be negotiated later by real diplomats.

Actually what I thought watching the episode was "Isaac is barely in this and barely has any lines, so why he couldn't be on Earth right now in jail?" I want consequences as in actual punishment in jail or demoting him from his job on the bridge. Not just social ostracizing in general or being out of Claire's family life. Sorry, I don't want subtle, I want explicit punishment. I do understand that the show doesn't want to lose the actor, but there are other ways to keep him while actually acknowledging that the character is responsible for a lot of casualties that can't be erased just because he did the right thing in the end.

I did like Yaphit getting an award, though.

I don't know that the daughter is that big a plot hole. They know who Oren was because he escaped their prison camp. They wouldn't know who the girl was and didn't seem to care. They probably didn't know if his daughter was there or escaped and likely didn't want to tell the Union about the loose ends on their part.

What was Isaac's legal crime? He didn't kill anyone. He was shut off when Mercer decided on his own to go to Kaylon 1. When he reported information about the Orville to his home planet, he did it with the full knowledge of the Union. Essentially, Isaac is an enemy combatant. They'd have to send him to the Union equivalent of Guantanamo Bay.

[tv-talk]

Hard to see how jail time would be a punishment for Isaac, one would assume he could spend 300yrs in a cell without missing a beat.

[ganesh]

He already spent life 900 years on the planet that worshipped Kelly

[CaptainE]

Major mistake in showing Gordon being pushed back by the explosion of the shuttle.   What was pushing him back?   There are no shock waves in space.

And tractor beams are a thing?  Should have used one to keep Orrin’s shuttle from doing such a potentially catastrophic crash landing in the beginning.

Also why the hell didn’t Gordon stun his buddy in the shuttle instead of bailing on him?   Stun, put him in a suit, then go.   I’m pretty sure the canister could survive being dropped from 5 feet if it could survive a torpedo launching.

[ketose]

17 minutes ago, CaptainE said:

Major mistake in showing Gordon being pushed back by the explosion of the shuttle.   What was pushing him back?   There are no shock waves in space.

And tractor beams are a thing?  Should have used one to keep Orrin’s shuttle from doing such a potentially catastrophic crash landing in the beginning.

Also why the hell didn’t Gordon stun his buddy in the shuttle instead of bailing on him?   Stun, put him in a suit, then go.   I’m pretty sure the canister could survive being dropped from 5 feet if it could survive a torpedo launching.

The atmosphere of the shuttle and the debris emanating from the explosion could have started him spinning. I think the implication is that the Orville couldn't get to the ship in time, especially if it continued moving.

I think Gordon gave up on trying to save Orrin when he explained that being handed over to the Krill would mean torture and death. Unfortunately, instead of exonorating Orrin, Gordon's plan proved his guilt.

[tv-talk]

I wish they had briefly shown the Orville turning the bomb daughter over to the Krill, that's type of thing that would raise the show's seriousness a bit. That woman was guilty and given they just signed a treaty with the Krill, should have been turned over much to the chagrin and protests of some crew members. I'd like to see Ed having to do things like that with some regularity to take little shine off his "funny alcoholic" persona. I dont think there has been an episode yet where he received orders from above his pay grade and complied despite unpopularity of the decision. Am also hoping they keep past issues alive, like Talla's complete and utter disdain for the Moclan's causing some difficult situations for Ed to handle.

[CaptainE]

On 3/16/2019 at 12:18 PM, ketose said:

The atmosphere of the shuttle and the debris emanating from the explosion could have started him spinning. I think the implication is that the Orville couldn't get to the ship in time, especially if it continued moving.

I think Gordon gave up on trying to save Orrin when he explained that being handed over to the Krill would mean torture and death. Unfortunately, instead of exonorating Orrin, Gordon's plan proved his guilt.

The atmosphere was maybe 25m sq, which in an explosion would be unlikely to push him in that manner and debris from the explosion would probably have killed him.  It’s physics. Also no sound from the explosion would have been heard like that, but that’s tv.

 As you somewhat implied, the “plan” to let the shuttle go was iffy and definitely caused Orrin’s death.  They should have at least planted another security officer in the shuttle to secure that canister once they were in space. 

[tv-talk]

There are shockwaves in space, they're just not the type we're used living in an atmosphere. An explosion such as the shuttle would produce some sort of force that could push Gordon no different than the combustion of a rocket's engine in space propels it. Also have to consider that being utterly weightless the slightest amount of force would be enough to push him one way or another. 

[CaptainE]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

There are shockwaves in space, they're just not the type we're used living in an atmosphere. An explosion such as the shuttle would produce some sort of force that could push Gordon no different than the combustion of a rocket's engine in space propels it. Also have to consider that being utterly weightless the slightest amount of force would be enough to push him one way or another. 

You are correct in that they aren’t the same.  There would be nothing between Gordon and the incoming ‘wave’ and it wold act like a projectile.  A very high speed projectile.   

Not to mention the acceleration he’d experience.   

[Ilovepie]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. I think overall this season has been great.

Things I liked:

Yaphit getting honored. It was interesting seeing how they would do that on what is essentially a giant blob.

Ed throwing the vodka shot over his shoulder. These small touches of humor are what I love about this show. Also, the pee corner in the shuttle bay lives on.....they should really think about building a bathroom down there.

Dann continues to kill it this season. They are using him just the right amount. Up vote for casual friday! I would love to see what that looks like.....

Gordon's conflict and survivor guilt over his friend. He's usually a doofus, but I think he really sold it here. I also liked that he was a better fighter than his friend who had spend 20 years in a prison. Seems realistic.

This was the first episode I thought Tallah really worked well. Humor in the scene with the Krill, and showing off her skills with the "daughter". I like her.

The scene where Gordon stepped off the shuttle into space was intense! It gave me the willies. Like Gravity with Sandra Bullock willies. Great job there, my favorite part of this episode.

What I didn't like:

Isaac just going back to his job like nothing happened. This show is usually pretty good at continuity (at least to me), but this feels brushed over. I hope this is explored more in the future episodes. I also hope we find out what happens to the girl they have quarantined......

Ed saying he was jealous of Gordon's friendship with Orrin. I don't think this was conveyed at all. I think he was in a really difficult situation and when Gordon yelled at him it just seemed like frustration and nothing else, as it should have been.

[ketose]

I think Ed was a little jealous, but mostly Gordon's distance made Ed realize he didn't have anyone to just listen to him. Most of the crew thinks of him as the captain, Kelly has too much history with him to be a sounding board. He can't seem to find a girlfriend who isn't evil. Ed's kind of stuck.

[The Companion]

On 3/7/2019 at 10:29 PM, phalange said:

The Krill agreeing to the treaty is a huge step forward from where Union and Krill relations were back in season 1. Nothing like a race of genocidal robots to bring people and space vampires together. And Talla's stalling tactics for the Krill were hilarious. The pee corner lives on. 

I really liked the treaty point. I expect fallout with Isaac just like we had with the Bortus story. But the more interesting thing to me is the result on Union-Krill relations. I also appreciate the follow-up on pee corner. 🙂

On 3/8/2019 at 5:43 AM, Biggie B said:

I wish there would've been one throw-away line at the end that explained what happened to the "daughter." What did they do with her, especially since she's such a danger?

It felt odd that there was no resolution one way or the other. I have to assume she wasn't handed over to the Krill because of the omission. Still, I found myself wondering what happened to her.

On 3/9/2019 at 9:05 AM, Orbert said:

Orrin did look way too good for someone who'd spent 20 years in a prison camp.  He looked a little batterred and bruised when they first found them in the shuttle, but in the next scene he was all cleaned up and Iooked great and I guess we just had to let that go.

He fought pretty well and looked pretty nourished. I suppose we have no way to know what the conditions look like, but it would seem his basic needs were cared for.

In the end, I found the fake daughter thing to be fairly predictable, but still enjoyed the story. I loved that Yaphit got some recognition and I found the potential treaty interesting. I am really liking Talla. I miss Alara but Talla has been a great addition.