S09.E01: Love Is In The Air

[Marigold]

I think JD and Abbie look so much more comfortable and happy with each other because they are older and more mature. 

Ben was standing around like a ding-dong high schooler so of course those two looked awkward as heck. So were all the others, except Jeremy. But we all know Jeremy has been around the soccer field a few times. 😉

[MamaMax]

Didn't JD and Abbie kind of jettison the chaperone thing? Weren't there reports of them out and about with nary a duggarling in sight? That might be part of their "different rules." Like, we are grown adults and can be trusted to be together in public without sneaking off to engage in heavy petting, FFS."

Edited February 17, 2019 by MamaMax

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, MamaMax said:

Didn't JD and Abbie kind of jettison the chaperone thing? Weren't there reports of them out and about with nary a duggarling in sight? That might be part of their "different rules." Like, we are grown adults and can be trusted to be together in public without sneaking off to engage in heavy petting, FFS."

I have a friend who is kind of fundie, and saved their first kiss for the wedding day (which honestly I don't believe in her case), and even she could go out in public with her boyfriend. They could even ride in a car together if going to a public place, but they couldn't be alone in private. Still thought it was stupid, but at least not as restrictive as most duggars. 

[Minivanessa]

On 2/15/2019 at 1:44 PM, DangerousMinds said:

Don’t you have to have a Neilson box in order to be counted as part of the ratings?

On 2/15/2019 at 2:26 PM, Churchhoney said:

Well, they used to also have some kind of viewing diary that you filled out. I think they may still have those. And those count into the ratings in some way or other (or do if they still exist). We used to have one of those. You filled in everything you watched. But we didn't have a box. 

I looked into this a little, and it's all very confusing. As far as I can tell, Neilsen does the ratings, with diaries and tracking boxes.

It's also true that with today's technology the cable companies have access to the activity on the customer's cable box, but I read some online articles saying that those companies say they aren't using that to track viewership, etc. OTOH, what with smart TVs and streaming services and all today's tech - who knows?

[Churchhoney]

26 minutes ago, Christina87 said:

I have a friend who is kind of fundie, and saved their first kiss for the wedding day (which honestly I don't believe in her case), and even she could go out in public with her boyfriend. They could even ride in a car together if going to a public place, but they couldn't be alone in private. Still thought it was stupid, but at least not as restrictive as most duggars. 

Yeah, not as bad. And I can understand why you might feel that a certain act is elevated for you by refraining from it. But the whole we-can-never-be-trusted-to-be-alone idea is just baffling, isn't it? 

If you intend to avoid certain acts until you're married, and...

you have any kind of moral or ethical compass (religion-based or reason-based or whatever-based),

...some modicum of adult-level self control and executive function,

....and/or some faith that God is helping you and guiding you and is there to answer your prayers,

....why on Earth would you not want to rely on whichever of those things you believe in to keep you behaving according to your stated principles....

....Rather than declaring to yourself, your partner and all the world that 

a) sex with another person is for you an absolutely irresistible force that no power on Earth or heaven can stop you from engaging in if nobody's watching and/or...

b) you have no self control and your God, if you have one, is powerless to help you muster any, despite your being a person who prays a lot and professes to rely on God's all-powerful presence for everything. 

I wouldn't marry a person who attributed this supernatural almighty power to sexual urges and who confessed to having no resources -- internal or external -- that could possibly be adequate to stop them from doing something that they actually say that they don't want to do. You'd be marrying an adult with zero control of any kind who actually thinks the urge to have immediate sex is the most powerful force in the universe. 

Why would you trust that person an inch? 

Just "being alone together" is an opportunity to talk honestly and openly with your partner, not a straight-up directive to screw or dry hump when you think it'd be better if you didn't. And those private talks are incredibly important for people who are thinking of marrying, to me. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Churchhoney

[The Ascension]

Aww. John and Abbie are so awkward, but so damn happy. For a guy as shy as John has come off over the years, it must be heaven to have a girl that he thinks is the most beautiful in the wide world proclaim to the world on camera and your loved ones "I would be honored to be your wife".

The producer asking Lauren "So, what happened?" is quite annoying to me. Think of a gentler way to ask it maybe?

Edited February 17, 2019 by The Ascension
Spelling

[Lunera]

Abbie was definitely expecting proposal but her reaction was still cute and genuine. The whole diner scene was awkward, why was it empty? 

[Abstract]

I don't think the chaperones are there because they think the courting couple has no self-control. In their world, it's called "avoiding the appearance of evil." Basically, if they have a witness all the time, then no one can start a rumor of sexual activity. Remember when Jessa and Ben went into a private room after the wedding to have their first kiss, and there were all these rumors that they had actually had sex? It kind of makes their point. If any of these couples were ever known to be alone, the rumors would be flying. Since these are people for whom pre-marital chastity is paramount, they don't want to be accused of doing something that flies in the face of their beliefs.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Abstract said:

I don't think the chaperones are there because they think the courting couple has no self-control. In their world, it's called "avoiding the appearance of evil." Basically, if they have a witness all the time, then no one can start a rumor of sexual activity. Remember when Jessa and Ben went into a private room after the wedding to have their first kiss, and there were all these rumors that they had actually had sex? It kind of makes their point. If any of these couples were ever known to be alone, the rumors would be flying. Since these are people for whom pre-marital chastity is paramount, they don't want to be accused of doing something that flies in the face of their beliefs.

I agree that's part of it. But the no-self-control angle also is part of it.  From the horse's ass's mouth on courtship (i.e., the Gothard  materials), here are the reasons stated -- 

"The temptation to go off alone and spend countless hours talking often leads to premature emotional attachments. Too much time spent alone also serves as a temptation to experiment with physical intimacy. Whatever you do—stay visible. Be accountable to your authorities. "

https://iblp.org/questions/how-does-courtship-work

Edited February 18, 2019 by Churchhoney

[awaken]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I agree that's part of it. But the no-self-control angle also is part of it.  From the horse's ass's mouth (i.e., the Gothard  materials), here's one of the things that's said-- 

"The temptation to go off alone and spend countless hours talking often leads to premature emotional attachments. 

https://iblp.org/questions/how-does-courtship-work

Isn’t this exactly what jinger and Jeremy we’re doing?  Spending countless hours talking on the phone without chaperones?  What if it had led to premature emotional attachments, and they didn’t end up marrying?  She would have been damaged goods. Spit out gum.  

[Churchhoney]

Just now, awaken said:

Isn’t this exactly what jinger and Jeremy we’re doing?  Spending countless hours talking on the phone without chaperones?  What if it had led to premature emotional attachments, and they didn’t end up marrying?  She would have been damaged goods. Spit out gum.  

Well, that's why JB and M supposedly listened in on calls between Jill and Der and Jessa and Bin, as I recall, right? The original deal with the courtships, as I remember it, is that alone time, including by phone or computer chat or the like, was supposed to be limited. Chaperones were supposed to be present.

Maybe they got worn out with this long line of people to superintend and/or JIngle was sneakier than the first two, and/or Jer just did what he wanted and insisted on it...and Jingle'd already transferred her headship designation to him without JB and M knowing about it! 

[Minivanessa]

10 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, that's why JB and M supposedly listened in on calls between Jill and Der and Jessa and Bin, as I recall, right? The original deal with the courtships, as I remember it, is that alone time, including by phone or computer chat or the like, was supposed to be limited. Chaperones were supposed to be present.

Maybe they got worn out with this long line of people to superintend and/or JIngle was sneakier than the first two, and/or Jer just did what he wanted and insisted on it...and Jingle'd already transferred her headship designation to him without JB and M knowing about it! 

I think that for JB and Michelle, continuing the level of surveillance they showed for Jill's and Jessa's courtships, would have been just too much like, well, work. They are great talkers but as we saw on the show, Michelle checked out of everything but making babies and nursing them up to six months of age, then turned them over, along with running the house and the homeschooling, to her young daughters. Maybe JB would have been up for more of the surveillance, but he's a big shot businessman and prominent Christian and celebrity and all so he may have had trouble fitting all that into his busy schedule. *snort*

Also, between those two courtships and Jeremy's later arrival on the scene, there was Joshgate. Which even for a young fundie guy might have thrown some wrinkles into the Duggar parents' interminable yak yak about "rules" and "purity." IMO Jeremy really cared for Jinger, didn't believe she was "accountable" for Josh's molestation, and had enough life experience to give the side-eye to JB's puffed-up pontificating and Michelle's chirpy blather. AFAIK Jeremy treated Jinger with affection and respect during their courtship, but let the Duggar parents' nonsense slide off his back.  ETA: JB and Michelle may have given Jeremy some breathing room during the courtship, after his hour-long (or was it longer?) lecture to the boys about the evils of masturbation. 

I can't tell the now-married younger bald boy Duggars apart, and don't know how supervised their courtships were. Did Kendra's and Lauren's families do the heavy lifting in terms of monitoring those courtships? Are there only two teen Duggar DILs so far? Sorry if there are more and I've forgotten one. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Jeeves

[Barb23]

14 hours ago, Lunera said:

Abbie was definitely expecting proposal but her reaction was still cute and genuine. The whole diner scene was awkward, why was it empty? 

I thought the empty diner was weird.  It seemed like a larger sized diner & would have people stopping in for a bite to eat throughout the day . Maybe they cleared it out because of the proposal. I would have waited to after the proposal to have eaten, making it a celebratory meal. 

[libgirl2]

36 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

I thought the empty diner was weird.  It seemed like a larger sized diner & would have people stopping in for a bite to eat throughout the day . Maybe they cleared it out because of the proposal. I would have waited to after the proposal to have eaten, making it a celebratory meal. 

I think it was empty for filming or maybe it was a normal closed day? 

[MamaMax]

6 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I think that for JB and Michelle, continuing the level of surveillance they showed for Jill's and Jessa's courtships, would have been just too much like, well, work. They are great talkers but as we saw on the show, Michelle checked out of everything but making babies and nursing them up to six months of age, then turned them over, along with running the house and the homeschooling, to her young daughters. Maybe JB would have been up for more of the surveillance, but he's a big shot businessman and prominent Christian and celebrity and all so he may have had trouble fitting all that into his busy schedule. *snort*

Also, between those two courtships and Jeremy's later arrival on the scene, there was Joshgate. Which even for a young fundie guy might have thrown some wrinkles into the Duggar parents' interminable yak yak about "rules" and "purity." IMO Jeremy really cared for Jinger, didn't believe she was "accountable" for Josh's molestation, and had enough life experience to give the side-eye to JB's puffed-up pontificating and Michelle's chirpy blather. AFAIK Jeremy treated Jinger with affection and respect during their courtship, but let the Duggar parents' nonsense slide off his back.  ETA: JB and Michelle may have given Jeremy some breathing room during the courtship, after his hour-long (or was it longer?) lecture to the boys about the evils of masturbation. 

I can't tell the now-married younger bald boy Duggars apart, and don't know how supervised their courtships were. Did Kendra's and Lauren's families do the heavy lifting in terms of monitoring those courtships? Are there only two teen Duggar DILs so far? Sorry if there are more and I've forgotten one. 

Can we PLEEEEASE rename the small talk thread "Interminable Yak Yak"????

I'm dying!

[kokapetl]

This was not worth all the Brazzers ads I had to sit through online.