Roswell, New Mexico, Roswell (OG) and Roswell High

[Bloga]

39 minutes ago, ellieart said:

I always saw it as Liz's story too.  If she hadn't been shot, Max wouldn't have saved her and we wouldn't have had a story.  If none of those events happened, the aliens would have continued living their lives like they had since they came out of the pods, blending into their background. 

The Roswell story has always been a love story.  One apparently so well done that Stephanie Meyer ripped it off for Twilight.

But mileage for sure does vary on how you see the show and who you see as the lead.  There's no right or wrong answer.  

     I feel the same way, Liz is the catalyst that propels the story...at least that was how the story was intended to be as per the books.

[Cristofle]

In the books, I think it is Liz and Max's story in pretty much equal measure at first. The POV jumps back and forth between them a lot, and we see the impact on both their sides. In the OG show, probably somewhat more Liz in the beginning, and then it kind of went off the rails and who even knew what was going on. I can't say in this show? I mean, now it's pretty clear all Carina cares about is Michael and in the extent that he matters to Michael, Alex, but it didn't really start that way. It kind of centered on "What happened to Rosa" at first.

[Bloga]

8 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

In the books, I think it is Liz and Max's story in pretty much equal measure at first. The POV jumps back and forth between them a lot, and we see the impact on both their sides. In the OG show, probably somewhat more Liz in the beginning, and then it kind of went off the rails and who even knew what was going on. I can't say in this show? I mean, now it's pretty clear all Carina cares about is Michael and in the extent that he matters to Michael, Alex, but it didn't really start that way. It kind of centered on "What happened to Rosa" at first.

     The murder mystery was kind of the glue the rest of the story arcs revolved around, because all the characters were either involved or affected by Rosa´s death...The pilot definitely made it so that Liz coming back was what set the ball rolling...then the focus shifted, sadly.

 Carina´s problem is she´s actually honest about her bias re: Michael being her favorite character is a fact, she has said so herself, so it´s not speculation, of course it´s her version of Michael...but when confronted about the misogynoir and the racebending and the absurdity of her choices re: Maria and also kind of pushing Liz to the side to make room for cosmic star-crossed Malex , she backtracks and goes on and  about Latina leads and woc taking back their power and whatnot, that´s what really bothers me. 

[bettername2come]

10 hours ago, ellieart said:

The Roswell story has always been a love story.  One apparently so well done that Stephanie Meyer ripped it off for Twilight.

I mean, the thing I love about all iterations of Roswell in comparison to Twilight and similar "strange, supernatural guy saves the girl" is that Max didn't fall into instant love with Liz and save her. They've known each other for years before that happens.

[shapeshifter]

I got rid of the books and DVDs when I had 30 days notice to move from an apartment I'd been in for 10 years, but I recall from re-reading the books a few times that each book focused on one character. Is that right? 

Apropos of nothing, the Roswell website I haven't updated in 6 years is still here: thesmudge.com/shapeshifter/Roswell

[Cristofle]

9 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I mean, the thing I love about all iterations of Roswell in comparison to Twilight and similar "strange, supernatural guy saves the girl" is that Max didn't fall into instant love with Liz and save her. They've known each other for years before that happens.

Yes, that is always a strength of Max and Liz. It wasn't instant. They've known each other since they were small children and Max just kind of quietly loved her from afar. This latest version is particularly strong in showing WHY Max fell for Liz (she was kind to him as a child, shared her music with a boy who had little to no words and kept teasing him out of his shell) but the books also had him go on and on in his POV sections about why he found Liz so appealing. And Liz may not have fallen for him as a child, but she's always known him and liked him. I think this version is the first one where there's an indication Liz had feelings for him before she knew who/what he was, but in each version there is a path to why Liz falls for him too - not just when he saves her, but when he allows her access to his thoughts and feelings and she can see who he really is. 

 

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

but I recall from re-reading the books a few times that each book focused on one character. Is that right? 

Sort of and sort of not. Each book bounces back and forth between the POVs of the core six. But each book usually does have a kind of front-runner as far as I can recall? Well, in Book 1 it's probably Max and Liz, but like...in Book 2 it's mostly about Isabel and her relationship with Nikolas, and Book 3 there's a lot of Maria and her finding...I want to call it an infinity stone, lol, but it's not that. Some powerful gem from the Pod Squad's planet. Book 4 has Max nearly dying of his alien illness. I want to say Michael gets captured in Book 5. I remember the earlier books a lot better, lol, and I found the first three in some boxes recently. But I think the books continue along that path. Each of the core six always gets POV sections in every book, but there is often a particular focus on one or two characters.

[bettername2come]

Hey, the twins tonight were named Travis/Trevor right? In the later books, Michael has an older brother named Trevor. Same Trevor? Or are they pulling a Cameron on us again?

[phoenics]

15 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Hey, the twins tonight were named Travis/Trevor right? In the later books, Michael has an older brother named Trevor. Same Trevor? Or are they pulling a Cameron on us again?

I think his name was Trevor.

 

[ellieart]

Yep, his name was Trevor

[shapeshifter]

And yes, they are pulling a Cameron on us. 😉 

[CabotCove]

OK I may just be turning into a Max/Liz believer, [not for old show but this show]. They showed some chemistry in this episode [2x06], and found myself actually believing what they were selling,.. for the first time. 

This was a good episode for them. 

[ellieart]

Max not having all the emotional baggage was a good look for him.  He was so engaging and funny, and dare I say an absolute delight to watch.

Who the hell am I?! 🤣

[Cristofle]

I am always attached to Max/Liz, in every version, (albeit possibly due to my initial attachment to Jason and Shiri's chemistry) but this might have been their best episode for me too, because at last there was a consistent glimpse of them without Rosa's death weighing them down, individually and together. And a lot of this was classic Max in the genre sense - the fact that even though he forgot her, he practically tripped over himself in his eagerness to ask her out. The milkshake speech. The look on his face when she said she loved him.

Also, Tumblr helped me out with her line when she was talking about taking his pants off - apparently, she called herself a "zorra", which is a form of Spanish slang for "vixen" per the Tumblr experts, and that is ADORABLE. LOL. I am so fond of this version of Liz. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

 Book 3 there's a lot of Maria and her finding...I want to call it an infinity stone, lol, but it's not that. Some powerful gem from the Pod Squad's planet. 

Where did she find it?, what does the object do and did the pod squad claim it?

[Cristofle]

7 minutes ago, CabotCove said:

Where did she find it?, what does the object do and did the pod squad claim it?

I want to say she found it at the mall, as silly as that sounds? LOL. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It was the same object the stowaway used to crash the ship. When she wore it, it gave her some alien powers (I remember her connecting to her cat, heh) and she thought if she had alien powers, Michael would see her in a different light, but it also made her sick and put some kind of alien hunters on her trail. Michael ultimately nearly died saving her IIRC. I think at first the UFO Museum alien watching over the kids took the stone, but he died not long after that and I think it kept bouncing around. Was the stone how Adam died? Anyone remember? Or was it something else?

[Bloga]

22 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I am always attached to Max/Liz, in every version, (albeit possibly due to my initial attachment to Jason and Shiri's chemistry) but this might have been their best episode for me too, because at last there was a consistent glimpse of them without Rosa's death weighing them down, individually and together. And a lot of this was classic Max in the genre sense - the fact that even though he forgot her, he practically tripped over himself in his eagerness to ask her out. The milkshake speech. The look on his face when she said she loved him.

Also, Tumblr helped me out with her line when she was talking about taking his pants off - apparently, she called herself a "zorra", which is a form of Spanish slang for "vixen" per the Tumblr experts, and that is ADORABLE. LOL. I am so fond of this version of Liz. 

     Zorra is definitely an insult in my circle, as in whore, so I didn´t like it one bit, but anyways...

[Cristofle]

31 minutes ago, Bloga said:

     Zorra is definitely an insult in my circle, as in whore, so I didn´t like it one bit, but anyways...

Ack! Vixen is definitely cuter, but then again, it is Carina. On the bright side, Max's Spanish is clearly complete shit, lol, so he probably had no idea what she said.

[Featherhat]

46 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I want to say she found it at the mall, as silly as that sounds? LOL. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It was the same object the stowaway used to crash the ship. When she wore it, it gave her some alien powers (I remember her connecting to her cat, heh) and she thought if she had alien powers, Michael would see her in a different light, but it also made her sick and put some kind of alien hunters on her trail. Michael ultimately nearly died saving her IIRC. I think at first the UFO Museum alien watching over the kids took the stone, but he died not long after that and I think it kept bouncing around. Was the stone how Adam died? Anyone remember? Or was it something else?

IIRC she found it at the mall after the showdown there in the previous book with Valenti and Niklaus getting killed. She gets powers and starts getting really close to Michael. The stones had something to do with joining the collective consciousness they have to do when they become adults and the alien puberty? I think Ray the adult alien died in book 4 or 5. I think that's how Adam died  over the stones and the rebels but I can't remember, I only borrowed later books from the library instead of buying them. 

[Jenniferbug]

Serious question. As an adult, are these books worth reading, since I'd have to buy them on Kindle? Without the nostalgia factor of having read them when young, are they fairly likeable and decently written? 

I need some more light quarantine reading! 

[CabotCove]

 

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

I want to say she found it at the mall, as silly as that sounds? LOL. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It was the same object the stowaway used to crash the ship. When she wore it, it gave her some alien powers (I remember her connecting to her cat, heh) and she thought if she had alien powers, Michael would see her in a different light, but it also made her sick and put some kind of alien hunters on her trail. Michael ultimately nearly died saving her IIRC. I think at first the UFO Museum alien watching over the kids took the stone, but he died not long after that and I think it kept bouncing around. Was the stone how Adam died? Anyone remember? Or was it something else?

interesting, thanks.

[Featherhat]

7 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

Serious question. As an adult, are these books worth reading, since I'd have to buy them on Kindle? Without the nostalgia factor of having read them when young, are they fairly likeable and decently written? 

I need some more light quarantine reading! 

To be honest I have no idea I haven't read them for years and the books are in a box at my parents if they haven't been given to charity so I can't check. The nostalgia would be big for me if I did. I remember really enjoying them as a kid and IIRC writing wise they were roughly on par with some of the Buffy/Angel/X files tie in books I was reading around the same time if that helps? Not great but readable I would think. 

I remember I really liked the auras and scents the characters had which wasn't really carried over to the TV series. 

[Cristofle]

16 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

Serious question. As an adult, are these books worth reading, since I'd have to buy them on Kindle? Without the nostalgia factor of having read them when young, are they fairly likeable and decently written? 

I need some more light quarantine reading! 

I mean, arguably the books have the most likable versions of the characters tbh, because each of them gets a chunk of POV in each book so it's a lot easier to see where they're coming from. They are definitely YA, and man, Max really goes on in his mind about how beautiful he thinks Liz is (and on. And on. And on some more), and I have a hard time saying how they'd come off to an adult cold because I was a teenager when I first read them. But I think they'd be kinda fun if you are are invested in the characters in other platforms?

Very early on in the OG series, Maria was really into aromatherapy, but I don't think it carried over that each had their own scent, no. I always thought it was interesting that Max's scent was cedar, which is supposed to be calming and soothing. On this show, only Mimi and sometimes Maria seem capable of seeing auras, versus the aliens could see them all the time. And Liz's is amber, lol, which Max will think about A LOT if you read the books. 

[ellieart]

25 minutes ago, Jenniferbug said:

Serious question. As an adult, are these books worth reading, since I'd have to buy them on Kindle? Without the nostalgia factor of having read them when young, are they fairly likeable and decently written? 

I need some more light quarantine reading! 

If you're looking for some light quarantine reading, I'd say they're worth it!  They're interesting to read to see who these characters are supposed to be and to see what this story is actually supposed to be.  

[Featherhat]

40 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Very early on in the OG series, Maria was really into aromatherapy, but I don't think it carried over that each had their own scent, no.

I'm doing a rewatch of the OG series in quarantine and I just saw the episode where Liz's Dad sees Maria giving Liz Echinacea for her cold and thinks it's drugs instead. That and the whole Alex thinks Liz is into Max because drugs thing took the place of Rosa's storyline in both the books and now the new version. Although in the book he was constantly on guard for Liz doing the same as Rosa as well. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

Serious question. As an adult, are these books worth reading, since I'd have to buy them on Kindle? Without the nostalgia factor of having read them when young, are they fairly likeable and decently written? 

I need some more light quarantine reading! 

IMO, yes. I read (and re-read, and re-read again, LOL) them in the 1990s and 2000s.
The show began when I was a librarian in an all-girls high school. I was a fan of the show--as were my 2 student assistants, so I bought them with the school's money for the collection. I liked them so much that I bought my own copies. But, as mentioned above, I gave them away when I had to quickly vacate my apartment in 2015. 
Anyway, they were well-written, unlike the TV tie-in books written by various authors based upon shows. 
But $7.99 each seems a little pricey. IDK. You could start with the first (amazon.com/Outsider-Roswell-High-Book-ebook/dp/B000FC0SKU/ref=sr_1_1).
Or, you could listen free with an Audible trial.

[peachmangosteen]

So, I started rewatching the original. I'm 5 eps in. And boy, I wasn't wrong about not remembering any details!

So far, this is much more boring than I remember lol. Like I am struggling to get through it because virtually nothing ever happens!

I like Max way more than I remember. I thought I was meh on him and then I think maybe I hated him later on? I don't know, we'll see. But anyway, I never remember really liking him but right now he's probably the character I enjoy the most.

I also love Kyle and Alex, but I remembered loving them. Alex is way in the background right now though. I can't remember if he ever gets much more to do or not. Kyle I loved all over again from his very first appearance and I do remember he gets even more awesome as the show goes on so I'm looking forward to that.

I am not that enamored with Maria or Michael yet and I remember loving them. Maybe I just loved them when they started getting together lol.

Oh, also, I still am meh on Liz and fucking hell her voice is borderline nails on a chalkboard to me.

[Cristofle]

I really, really love OG Max, and Jason's portrayal of him. The writing for him in later S2 sucks, but I always had a really hard time seeing Liz as any sort of victim of his, particularly when it came to Tess- Liz cannot: dump a guy, go out of her way to make him think she's moved on, tell him he's responsible for a mutual friend's death, tell him they're not friends anymore, and still accuse him of cheating on her when he has sex with someone else (and that they ever wrote that as happening after what Tess did to Max in S1 was infuriating, but that's a whole other mess). 

I also tend to think Jason was the most versatile of the OG younger cast. 

[peachmangosteen]

9 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I also tend to think Jason was the most versatile of the OG younger cast. 

He's really impressing me so far. I thought that I was so meh on him/Max and maybe at the time I was but he's working for me now.

Another funny observation I had was noticing that Brendan Fehr has the same weird deep wrinkle in between his eyes that Tyler Blackburn does. Maybe TB should've played Michael lol.

I feel like the new Michael is fairly similar to the OGMichael and new Maria/new Isobel have some similarity to the originals, but the rest of the new versions are nothing like the originals tbh.

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

He's really impressing me so far. I thought that I was so meh on him/Max and maybe at the time I was but he's working for me now.

Another funny observation I had was noticing that Brendan Fehr has the same weird deep wrinkle in between his eyes that Tyler Blackburn does. Maybe TB should've played Michael lol.

I feel like the new Michael is fairly similar to the OGMichael and new Maria/new Isobel have some similarity to the originals, but the rest of the new versions are nothing like the originals tbh.

Agreed. Michael, Maria, and Isobel were clearly heavily based on the OG show. Max, Liz, and Alex really were not, lol (other than Max being the savior). But there is a kind of...gentle, calming quality to Jason's Max, whereas Nathan's Max has always seemed on the constant verge of a complete emotional and mental breakdown, lol.

[Jenniferbug]

@peachmangosteen, I feel like (for me) the series really didn't pick up speed until the episode when Michael drags Maria to Texas. That seemed to be when I found myself invested in the show. I think that's maybe episode 7 or 8? I tried rewatching a few months ago and was also surprised how slow the first few episodes seemed to me. 

[ellieart]

285 South is Episode 6, where Michael and Maria went on their road trip.  That's when the show really started picking up.  I agree, the first few episodes were pretty slow, it was more about building the characters with some of the groundwork being laid.  But yeah, episode 6 for me was the start of some of the strongest episodes of the entire series.

[Cristofle]

The first few episodes got pretty heavily rewritten and in some places, seriously re-shot, and I think that's a big part of why they're uneven. There are good moments - Kyle spying on Max and Liz in the second episode, the final moment of the fourth episode- but the overall plot gets a lot tighter and the cast interacts more as a group starting around 285 South. 

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

There are good moments - Kyle spying on Max and Liz in the second episode ...

I loved this! Kyle is such a great character and I love how NW plays him. I'm surprised I didn't remember that little scene.

I'm glad to hear it's picks up at ep 6, which I'm on to next, because I was starting to think maybe rewatching it was a bad idea lol.

[Cristofle]

One of the scenes they cut is actually in the early S1 credits, of Max and Liz running away from a seeming car crash. There is definitely a gifset of another one floating around - I think it's from 1x04. Liz comes up behind Max and hugs him from behind. I'm not sure exactly what happened, if they thought they were moving too fast between them or if it was something else, I just know that a bunch of pieces in those early episodes got rewritten in some cases completely reshot, so the tone was...uneven, heh.

Also, Max and Isabel's father is played by a different actor in those early episodes before he's recast with the one who stays to the end of the series (and I'm so sorry to that actor, but for me he was very memorable as a serial killer in an early episode of SVU and it's hard to shake my impression of him as creepy). 

[ellieart]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

One of the scenes they cut is actually in the early S1 credits, of Max and Liz running away from a seeming car crash. There is definitely a gifset of another one floating around - I think it's from 1x04. Liz comes up behind Max and hugs him from behind. I'm not sure exactly what happened, if they thought they were moving too fast between them or if it was something else, I just know that a bunch of pieces in those early episodes got rewritten in some cases completely reshot, so the tone was...uneven, heh.

I think I know which scene you're talking about.  When Liz hugs Max outside the hospital in Leaving Normal (1x04).  It's such a sweet little moment, but maybe they cut it so that it didn't lessen the impact of the hug at the end of the episode which was a pretty big moment for them.

[Cristofle]

Yeah, I can see why they would have cut it, because the episode is titled "Leaving Normal" and Liz's VO indicates that the moment she turns around and hugs him is a kind of choice that she makes to "leave normal" and to choose to go down this path with Max. But the gifset I've seen is cute, and Max deserved a comforting hug too in that episode, lol. 

[peachmangosteen]

I watched eps 6-9 today and yes it definitely picks up! I actually do sorta kinda remember some of this stuff as well.

Seeing Alex react to Liz and Maria keeping something from him just highlighted for me how badly they handled Maria reacting to not knowing in the new version.

I love Kyle so much. Just so much. When he and Max partnered up for the questions thing, I was rolling. And when he thought Alex was trying to get info outta him for Liz. And when he was talking to Liz in the janitor's closet. Basically, every scene Kyle is in is my favorite lol.

Michael/Maria! 😍

 

[Cristofle]

For the OG fans, from Shiri's IG:

 

[phoenics]

On 4/22/2020 at 5:55 PM, Featherhat said:

IIRC she found it at the mall after the showdown there in the previous book with Valenti and Niklaus getting killed. She gets powers and starts getting really close to Michael. The stones had something to do with joining the collective consciousness they have to do when they become adults and the alien puberty? I think Ray the adult alien died in book 4 or 5. I think that's how Adam died  over the stones and the rebels but I can't remember, I only borrowed later books from the library instead of buying them. 

The stones were called the Stones of Midnight and they were extremely powerful.  Part of the whole plot line was that one of them was used by Dupris to crash the ship - but only because he was trying to get the other stones.  There are more than one.  So he was hiding in plain sight, thinking the alien teens had the stones all along and basically hanging around Roswell searching for the other ones.  Apparently he used up most of the juice in the one he had and needed the other one(s) to open up a wormhole to go back home.

It actually had nothing to do with the collective consciousness (it connects all aliens telepathically, both alive and dead after puberty) except that Trevor (Michael's brother) came to earth looking for the stones so they could destroy the collective consciousness.  The CC was kinda likened to slavery by Trevor and the Alien Resistance back on their home planet.  So he needed another stone so he could open up a wormhole AND send the stone back through it to detonate and destroy the collective consciousness.  After what the CC did to Max (it basically became a controlling thing which stripped him of his agency and autonomy, forcing him to do things he didn't want to do), the alien teens all decided the only way to save Max and all the people back on their home planet who weren't part of it was to go along with Trevor's plan to destroy it.

It was a really interesting storyline because you got the collective's point of view on Trevor through Max - to them and Max, Trevor was a terrorist.  But then once you realized how damaging, controlling and wrong the CC was, you realized the CC was oppressive and Trevor was a liberator.

I'm still mad that Carina never really tapped into the mythology of the book even though the show was supposed to be based on that.  It's clear her real inspiration was the OG show, but we got a crappy Carina fanfiction of the OG show rather than something that really utilized the book mythology - which was so rich.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by phoenics

[Cristofle]

Well, it took another writer, but we finally DID get a solid book nugget - the auras! Only Isobel can see them as of now, but I'd find it really cool if that's how she found Jones was...possessing Max's body, or mind, or whatever he's doing. Because in the books, each aura was distinct (I know Liz's was amber, and I think Max's was green, and Maria's was blue - I can't remember everyone's). And they did mix in other colors with emotions (like Isobel could tell Jones was lying because his turned yellow), but each one was still different. And if they do keep with the book mythology, Jones' would be different than Max's. Which Isobel might not be able to tell at first, since she's new to it, but maybe something will clue her in.

[backhometome]

Thinking about it I very much prefer RNM Isobel to OG Roswell Isobel. Katherines Isobel was very cold. I just remember her being bitchy most of the time. 

 

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, backhometome said:

Thinking about it I very much prefer RNM Isobel to OG Roswell Isobel. Katherines Isobel was very cold. I just remember her being bitchy most of the time. 

It is probably just the writing, but my inner cattiness wants to bring up acting. 
Down, cat!