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The Marvel Cinematic Universe: The Avengers, etc.

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Marvel Studios panel coming up later today...

D23 Brazil, November 8-10, 2024 (Sao Paolo, Brazil)
https://d23.com/brazil/
https://d23.com/details-revealed-for-d23-brazil-a-disney-experience/

Quote

Fans can expect a series of surprises and exclusive announcements during the event, including what’s new from Disney Experiences, previews of new releases from Disney Live Action, Pixar Animation Studios, Walt Disney Animation Studios, Marvel Studios, Lucasfilm, and 20th Century Studios, special guests and interactive experiences. D23 Brazil - A Disney Experience promises to provide a complete immersion into the worlds of Disney, creating unforgettable moments and bringing to Brazil the magic of Disney that connects fans around the world.


https://www.laughingplace.com/w/disney-entertainment/previewing-d23-brazil-a-disney-experience-2024/ 

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Saturday, November 9th:
*  *  *
4:30 p.m. (2:30 p.m. ET/11:30 a.m. PT): Lucasfilm, 20th Century Studios and Marvel Studios

aghst

aghst

I've been rewatching the Avengers movies the last couple of weeks.

Actually re-watched Iron Man 3, at the end of which Stark destroyed his suits.

Then I guess we're suppose to watch every MCU movie to get snippets or post-credit scenes to understand what happens between the Avengers movies.

Is that good story-telling or it just serves Disney's interest that you watch every movie, even if you have little interest in some of the lesser-known superheroes?

Used to watch The Agents of SHIELD and even that was connected to the events in the movie, though it was ridiculous, they were dealing with end of the planet or universe scenarios and they were trying to deal with it themselves instead of calling any of the Avengers.

Basically every MCU movie and show has everything in the world at stake.

I still haven't watched all the MCU shows, like Wandavision, Loki, etc. Probably won't get to them but I get that there are diehard fans who can't get enough of the MCU.

But Disney is trying to rope in as broad an audience as possible, not just the Marvel Comics nerds.  So they can't expect casual fans to watch every movie, every show, every credit scenes that they bury in there.

arc

arc

1 minute ago, aghst said:

Then I guess we're suppose to watch every MCU movie to get snippets or post-credit scenes to understand what happens between the Avengers movies.

Is that good story-telling or it just serves Disney's interest that you watch every movie, even if you have little interest in some of the lesser-known superheroes?

Mainly it serves their interests.

But I’ll say as a long time capes comic book fan who never had the inclination nor money to buy all the stuff, it’s cool to me that there’s a larger interconnected world even if I didn’t actually read it all, or watch it all now. I never liked how the pre-MCU style of superhero movies kept everything in a neat little bubble where everything comes from one inciting incident. 

That said, even a few movies and short-run TV shows a year hardly seems like an onerous commitment to me.

(But also Marvel has started rolling out their “Marvel Legends” 5 minute recap videos on YouTube to catch everyone up.)

  • Like 2
Raja

Raja

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Then I guess we're suppose to watch every MCU movie to get snippets or post-credit scenes to understand what happens between the Avengers movies.

Is that good story-telling or it just serves Disney's interest that you watch every movie, even if you have little interest in some of the lesser-known superheroes?

On one hand Stan Lee is supposed to have said every comic is one of your reader's first. On the other hand the force multiplier in box office is getting fans in for the connections in the other movies. Sometimes it works as with The Avengers proving the concept, in others like with Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness and The Marvels perhaps the connections from WandaVision and Ms. Marvel wasn't good enough

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Used to watch The Agents of SHIELD and even that was connected to the events in the movie, though it was ridiculous, they were dealing with end of the planet or universe scenarios and they were trying to deal with it themselves instead of calling any of the Avengers.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D was famously a one sided background information affair which added to my enjoyment of the Infinity Saga, until the guessed wrong in how Avengers: Infinity War would turn out but had to really go their own way with a great dead cat bounce when ABC bought two additional TV seasons.

 

1 hour ago, arc said:

That said, even a few movies and short-run TV shows a year hardly seems like an onerous commitment to me.

The problem being one of buying a subscription and giving over 5 times the amount of entertainment over time of a movie to find that one scene in a series. And if you don't like the season then you are liable to peace out and miss the Easter Egg to the greater MCU. And then the nerd press will let you know anyway cutting into Disney's profits.

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Basically every MCU movie and show has everything in the world at stake.

Off of the top of my head Hawkeye and Echo were able to avoid that being crime dramas, against a possibly enhanced gang boss . The "is it really MCU shows?" also had the world at stake with the characters being unable to contact the Avengers to take over

arc

arc

4 hours ago, Raja said:

The problem being one of buying a subscription and giving over 5 times the amount of entertainment over time of a movie to find that one scene in a series.

The inter-connections are a spice. If you don’t like the meal, don’t eat the whole thing for a hint of pepper in the middle.

I’ve generally never liked the idea that the MCU is just homework for more homework to come later. I try to take each piece on its own merits and enjoy it or not without thinking about the bigger picture.

4 hours ago, Raja said:

And then the nerd press will let you know anyway cutting into Disney's profits.

Or now Disney will just make those Marvel Legends clips shorts to make sure people can catch up.

  • Like 1
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Lucasfilm, 20th Century Studios, and Marvel Studios Share Trailers, Sneak Peeks, and More at D23 Brazil — A Disney Experience
November 9, 2024
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/d23-brazil-day-two/ 

Quote

Kevin Feige thanked fans for the huge success of Deadpool & Wolverine, which had a record-breaking run at the box office this year, and arrives on Disney+ on Tuesday, November 12. He shared a special greeting from the film’s star and producer, Ryan Reynolds, before a trio of films were spotlighted:

  • Captain America: Brave New World stars Anthony Mackie, who makes his big-screen debut as Captain America, and Danny Ramirez, who plays the Falcon, came onstage to talk about the film, which releases in theaters on February 14, 2025, and also share a clip and brand-new trailer with the audience.

*  *  *

  • The excited crowd welcomed Thunderbolts* star David Harbour to the stage, where he talked about the upcoming action-adventure in which he plays Red Guardian. Florence Pugh, who returns as Yelena Belova, recorded a greeting for the fans, who were also treated to a special look at the movie. Opening in theaters on May 2, 2025, Thunderbolts* features the irreverent team-up of the MCU’s least anticipated band of misfits.

*  *  *

  • Set against the vibrant backdrop of a 1960s-inspired, retro-futuristic world, Marvel Studios’ Fantastic Four: First Steps introduces Marvel’s First Family. The crowd was given a sneak peek of the upcoming movie that will open in theaters on July 25, 2025.

*  *  *

  • The audience was the first to see an exclusive trailer and poster celebrating the third and final season of the popular series What If…? The culmination of the adventure through time and space, Season 3 sees classic characters making unexpected choices that will mutate their worlds into spectacular alternate versions of the MCU. Traversing genres, bigger spectacles and new characters, the series launches Sunday, December 22. The trailer will premiere online on Monday, November 11.
  • The crowd got a sneak peek at Marvel Animation’s Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man, a new, original, animated series premiering January 29, 2025. It follows Peter Parker on his way to becoming a hero, with a journey unlike anything fans have ever seen and a style that celebrates the character’s early comic book roots.

*  *  *

  • Charlie Cox and Vincent D’Onofrio surprised fans when they hit the stage to share details and a special look at Marvel Television’s Daredevil: Born Again, which launches March 4, 2025, on Disney+. Cox plays a blind lawyer with heightened abilities who’s fighting for justice through his bustling law firm, while former mob boss Wilson Fisk (D’Onofrio) pursues his own political endeavors in New York.

D23 Brazil: Marvel Studios' Kevin Feige Teases Next 3 Big Screen Releases
Laughing Place   Nov 9, 2024

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

From last weekend at Comic Con Liverpool...

Sebastian Stan on Robert Downey Jr as Doctor Doom, Winter Soldier moments, MCU | Comic Con Liverpool
Monopoly Events   Nov 10, 2024


Also...

Anthony Mackie Shares a Memory From Every Movie He's Ever Been In | Entertainment Weekly
Entertainment Weekly   Nov 11, 2024

Quote

*  *  *
2:59 Captain America: The Winter Soldier
*  *  *
12:17 Avengers: Infinity War

Edited by tv echo
BaggythePanther

BaggythePanther

On 11/9/2024 at 4:26 PM, aghst said:

But Disney is trying to rope in as broad an audience as possible, not just the Marvel Comics nerds.  So they can't expect casual fans to watch every movie, every show, every credit scenes that they bury in there.

I doubt that this is expected. I see this complaint online and I wonder what people are missing because I know people who only follow Black Panther and they’re fine. If you have a favorite character and follow them through their projects you’d be fine. If Black Panther or Thor are your favorites you’re not missing anything by skipping Dr. Strange 2 or Ant Man 3.

 

On 11/9/2024 at 10:42 PM, arc said:

Or now Disney will just make those Marvel Legends clips shorts to make sure people can catch up.

Those clips are just on Disney+ right? The “nerd press” will post a rundown on YouTube for free.

arc

arc

10 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

Those clips are just on Disney+ right? The “nerd press” will post a rundown on YouTube for free.

No, they put them on YouTube too. And it doesn’t hurt Disney if nerd press also makes explainer videos. What Disney/Marvel want is box office results, ancillary sales, and merch sales. Having more people caught up any way possible will help juice those.

  • Like 1
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Recorded Nov 10 at Comic Con Liverpool...

Sebastian Stan on Bucky being a Dad, Marvel prequels and more | Full Q&A | Comic-Con Liverpool 2024
Monopoly Events   posted Nov 19, 2024


Recorded Nov 3 at the Miami Film Festival (he received the festival's Precious Gem Award, which is awarded to one-of-a-kind artists)...

Sebastian Stan - Live Awards Chatter Podcast with Scott Feinberg & Precious GEM Award
MiamiFilmFestival   Nov 13, 2024

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Marvel Boss Kevin Feige On ‘Fantastic Four’ Wrap Date, ‘X-Men’ & “Goosebumps” Moment Filming ‘Deadpool & Wolverine’ — Disney APAC Showcase
By Sara Merican   Nov 20, 2024
https://deadline.com/2024/11/marvel-kevin-feige-fantastic-four-deadpool-wolverine-asia-1236182022/ 

Quote

Feige made a live virtual appearance at the opening of the Disney APAC Content Showcase, held in Singapore, and talked up the future of the MCU ahead of The Fantastic Four: First Steps‘ release next year. Appearing onscreen at the showcase wearing a blue Fantastic Four cap, he pointed at the hat when asked which Marvel title he was most excited for in 2025.

“Finally, [we’re] bringing Marvel’s First Family into the MCU,” said Feige about the long-in-the-works project. “They wrap next week, the movie comes out next summer, and then all those characters go right into the next Avengers movies, so I’m very excited for the future of the Fantastic Four.”
*  *  *
Feiged said that Thunderbolts*, set to premiere in May 2025, is “what Marvel is all about.” The film stars the likes of Florence Pugh ads Yelena Belova, Sebastian Stan as Bucky Barnes and David Harbour as Red Guardian, who form an antihero group who perform missions from the U.S. government.

“It’s taking characters from all different types of places and franchises and putting them together,” he said. “That’s what the Avengers is, that’s what Guardians of the Galaxy is.”

On bringing the X-Men into the MCU, Feige said: “I think you will see that continues in our next few movies with some X-Men players that you might recognize. Right after that, the whole story of Secret Wars really leads us into a new age of mutants and of the X-Men. Again, [it’s] one of those dreams come true. We finally have the X-Men back.”

Edited by tv echo
tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Sebastian Stan got two Golden Globe nominations for his performances in two different movies (winners to be announced during televised ceremony on CBS on Jan. 5)...

Golden Globes Nominations Full List Revealed: ‘Emilia Pérez’ Leads In Film & ‘The Bear’ Leads TV
By Andreas Wiseman   December 9, 2024 
https://deadline.com/2024/12/golden-globes-nominations-2025-list-film-tv-1236198070/ 

Quote

Best Performance by a Male Actor in a Motion Picture – Drama
Adrien Brody (The Brutalist)
Timothée Chalamet (A Complete Unknown)
Daniel Craig (Queer)
Colman Domingo (Sing Sing)
Ralph Fiennes (Conclave)
Sebastian Stan (The Apprentice)
*  *  *
Best Performance by a Male Actor in a Motion Picture – Musical or Comedy
Jesse Eisenberg (A Real Pain)
Hugh Grant (Heretic)
Gabriel Labelle (Saturday Night)
Jesse Plemons (Kinds Of Kindness)
Glen Powell (Hit Man)
Sebastian Stan (A Different Man)

Edited by tv echo
  • Like 1
iarwain

iarwain

On 12/9/2024 at 8:40 PM, baldryanr said:

If true, it's starting to reek of desperation - we need to bring back RDJ and CE to get the fans to tune in because the reception to the next generation is mixed. 

Unfortunately, Marvel/Disney has spent the capitol of goodwill that they had built up with their earlier releases.  They seemed to take the attitude that MCU fans would watch anything, that they could alter the characters however they wanted, and that fans of the old comic books were completely disposable.

I have little to no interest in the MCU at the moment, aside from the upcoming Fantastic Four movie.  And that is largely out of curiosity.  And out of respect for the first book Stan Lee wrote to create the Marvel Universe.

  • Like 1
Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
On 12/9/2024 at 8:40 PM, baldryanr said:

According to the Wrap, Chris Evans will return to the MCU

If true, it's starting to reek of desperation - we need to bring back RDJ and CE to get the fans to tune in because the reception to the next generation is mixed. 

I think it depends on how they do it and what the role is. Another fun cameo like Deadpool & Wolverine? Old Man Cap dying like we saw Peggy Carter like Winter Soldier/Civil War? Could also be Time Travel or AU Captain. 

I'm perfectly fine with Marvel bringing Cap/Chris Evans and RDJ back...RDJ as Doom is wild but, we'll see. I still want a The Good, The Bad and The Deadpool or even just a Cap/Logan movie.

I never wanted Cap or Chris Evans to leave so I'm fine with Disney making Evans do this till he's 90 😆

Side note, I saw an interview with Ryan Reynolds that he thinks Deadpool's future in MCU is guest staring in other people's movies. I don't know if that will work in stand alone, i can see him showing up in X-Men or Avengers but, like Deadpool in a Gambit movie just takes away from Gambit. Hell, even getting Spideypool would detract from Spider-Man 

Edited by Morrigan2575
  • Like 4
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arc

arc

12 hours ago, iarwain said:

Unfortunately, Marvel/Disney has spent the capitol of goodwill that they had built up with their earlier releases.  They seemed to take the attitude that MCU fans would watch anything, that they could alter the characters however they wanted, and that fans of the old comic books were completely disposable.

Who cares about fans of the old comic books? I say this as a comics reader myself. If every pre-existing GOTG comics fan -- and only them -- bought 50 tickets each to the first movie, GOTG would have been a massive failure. The 2008 comic was cancelled after 25 issues.

Even now, bestselling comics sell maybe 100K issues per month. If an MCU movie did 400K (four hundred thousand) tickets in an opening weekend -- a $6M opening weekend, more or less, Feige would instantly be persona non grata in Hollywood and superhero films would instantly be 100% dead for a decade.

I do agree they spent their goodwill though. Partly some people took Endgame as an offramp. Why not? The studio retired a few characters and it was literally called "Endgame". More importantly, quality control was hit or miss, and most importantly IMO, the MCU formula of "extend and reinforce" was broken -- Marvel went all-in on extending and mostly forgot about reinforcing.

Quality control: I actually like many phase 4 and 5 movies, but Eternals was a disappointment and doubly so considering the cast and Zhao's own reputation both as a director and a fangirl who shouted out AO3. Doctor Strange MOM was better the less you knew about Wandavision. Thor 4 was just Waititi losing his balance of fun vs weight that he hit so perfectly on Ragnarok. I haven't even watched Secret Invasion past the first episode and probably never will. But all of that is relatively minor compared to Quantumania, which genuinely stunk and worst of all, Marvel didn't know it. They famously thought before it was released that it was "a banger".

And as for "extend and reinforce", tons of new characters were introduced in phase 4 ("extend"). Which phase 4 characters got cameos to reinforce them? There's Yelena, and then right at the end of The Marvels, Kate Bishop. (and of course some TV characters got promoted to the movies in The Marvels, like Kamala and Monica Rambeau.) Other characters from Black Widow like Alexei won't be back until Thunderbolts.

Riri's second appearance has been delayed endlessly. They never even tried to put Shang Chi in any kind of cameo anywhere, nor any of the Eternals, nor America Chavez*, nor Cassie Lang.

The great innovation of the MCU was having this giant interconnected universe, and phase 4 felt mostly disconnected. More so because they didn't have a big connect-them-all movie to cap off phase 4. (That said, they did do some decent work laying the groundwork for Matt Murdock and Wilson Fisk to enter/return to the MCU. If they had done some more of that for the actually new phase 4 characters, I wouldn't be talking at length about this problem.)

Also, part of this disconnection issue was due to the focus on setting up Kang which was a giant failure for both offscreen reasons and to some degree onscreen stuff too, so what little stuff Marvel did with "reinforce" was wasted on Kang, now that they're probably pivoting away from him entirely.

* this rant is already too long, but in the course of research for it I found out America was originally going to fulfill the story role Ned had in Spider-Man: No Way Home but covid really messed everything up, including the timing on which film would release first and so she ended up getting written out.

  • Like 3
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

2 hours ago, arc said:

Quality control: I actually like many phase 4 and 5 movies, but Eternals was a disappointment and doubly so considering the cast and Zhao's own reputation both as a director and a fangirl who shouted out AO3. Doctor Strange MOM was better the less you knew about Wandavision. Thor 4 was just Waititi losing his balance of fun vs weight that he hit so perfectly on Ragnarok. I haven't even watched Secret Invasion past the first episode and probably never will. But all of that is relatively minor compared to Quantumania, which genuinely stunk and worst of all, Marvel didn't know it. They famously thought before it was released that it was "a banger".

I feel that stretch of movies could have been seen as way different with just a few change. First off probably don't make Eternals. Based on how we haven't really seen anything from those characters since then it seems kind of unnecessary. Plus 4 MCU movies in 1 year was a lot. 

The other big hit was Chadwick Bozeman dying. A BP2 with him starting in it would have been a way bigger deal (and probably better than what we got). And looking back I think recasting, even if it meant pushing the movie back a couple of years was probably the better play.

And then just make Ant-Man good. Either by keeping the low key heist movie feel of the first two or by not making it so much CGI that it looked like a Star Wars prequel.  Not sure why they needed to have someone fight Kang so soon. It was years of just getting hints about Thanos before he actually did something big in IW.

Because with those things changed that 2 year stretch of movies from 2021-2023 becomes pretty decent I think. Shangi Chi and Black Widow pretty good. And No Way Home and Guardians 3 were pretty great. 

  • Like 1
arc

arc

11 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The other big hit was Chadwick Bozeman dying. A BP2 with him starting in it would have been a way bigger deal (and probably better than what we got). And looking back I think recasting, even if it meant pushing the movie back a couple of years was probably the better play.

Come to think of it, I also kinda thought Namor was going to be a bigger deal coming out of BP2. Instead Marvel has kept him so far backburnered you barely hear about him in connection to the upcoming FF movie considering how tied to the FF he is in the comics. Again, extend but no reinforce.

13 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And then just make Ant-Man good. Either by keeping the low key heist movie feel of the first two or by not making it so much CGI that it looked like a Star Wars prequel.  Not sure why they needed to have someone fight Kang so soon. It was years of just getting hints about Thanos before he actually did something big in IW.

Just a giant pile of miscalculations all around. I've ranted at length about it in the actual Quantumania thread.

23 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

First off probably don't make Eternals. Based on how we haven't really seen anything from those characters since then it seems kind of unnecessary. Plus 4 MCU movies in 1 year was a lot. 

The dead Celestial's hand is going to make an onscreen return before the actual Eternals do!!!!

Let me go on about my extend and reinforce thing a little more. GOTG is the closest analogue to Eternals in that they carved out a very separate niche isolated from the larger MCU. The Guardians didn't have any "reinforce" moments between GOTG1 and GOTG2, but then of course they showed up in Infinity War and Endgame. But they have adventures in deep space. The only other cosmic MCU characters are Thor and Captain Marvel; the latter wasn't introduced till two years after GOTG2. (and Taika Waititi graciously closed off the Thor/Guardians team-up so James Gunn wouldn't have to spend time in GOTG3 dealing with it.)

The Eternals have been on earth this whole time, so they're harder to plausibly cordon off from the rest of the MCU. So instead, consider Doctor Strange, who had his first movie in 2016, then showed up in 2017's Ragnarok, 2018's Infinity War, 2019's Endgame and Far From Home, and then a moment from his sequel movie was used in 2021's Wandavision. Cameos galore that reinforced his role in the MCU for the audience even though it took six years between actual Doctor Strange movies. The Eternals got nothing.

  • Like 4
Tenshinhan

Tenshinhan

On 12/9/2024 at 8:40 PM, baldryanr said:

According to the Wrap, Chris Evans will return to the MCU

If true, it's starting to reek of desperation - we need to bring back RDJ and CE to get the fans to tune in because the reception to the next generation is mixed. 

It's a smart move, regardless.  I'm guessing that the next batch of films are an attempt to return to the level of quality from before.  They wouldn't waste RDJ and CE on poor stories.  Their plans must be aiming for bigger and better.

16 hours ago, iarwain said:

Unfortunately, Marvel/Disney has spent the capitol of goodwill that they had built up with their earlier releases.  They seemed to take the attitude that MCU fans would watch anything, that they could alter the characters however they wanted, and that fans of the old comic books were completely disposable.

I have little to no interest in the MCU at the moment, aside from the upcoming Fantastic Four movie.  And that is largely out of curiosity.  And out of respect for the first book Stan Lee wrote to create the Marvel Universe.

The characters are as true to the comics as they have always been.  The filmmakers are not going to limit themselves by being rigid or moving backwards.  Fans of the old comic books have absolutely nothing to do with any goodwill or success of the MCU.  Marvel clearly respects the source material.  Also, Stan Lee is not the end-all be-all of the Marvel Universe.

arc

arc

26 minutes ago, iarwain said:

The fans of the old comic books are what made Marvel a desirable franchise in the first place.  

Stan Lee used to call Marvel "the House of Ideas". The biggest and most important idea Marvel had was that superhero comics could be entertaining for teens, the kind of customer other comics companies used to write off as aging out of buying comics. So Marvel comics from Fantastic Four onwards were (initially) more sophisticated than the competition of its time, with soap opera character dynamics, continuing stories.

Anyways, my point is that it's the ideas that are valuable. That and to a lesser extent, the brand recognition, though Marvel famously sold the film rights to their most famous characters and had to start the MCU with a bunch of B-listers. But the character premises and the various adventures they've had in the comics make for good raw material to adapt for TV or movies, and to some extent comics fans are bellwethers for how something will play with the general public. That is, Superman is popular, Firestorm is a B-lister, and the New Guardians (out of the Millenium crossover event) are box office poison.

And comics used to be genuinely mass media, back when they were primarily sold on newsstands for a quarter. Now they're relegated to specialty comics stores. "Graphic novels" are popular at bookstores, but cape comics at the bookstore are actually far behind manga and kids comics in sales. So even including graphic novel sales from bookstores, fans who buy and read superhero comics are a small, small part of the fandom that consumes the MCU.

  • Like 2
Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

1 hour ago, iarwain said:

I disagree with that completely.  The fans of the old comic books are what made Marvel a desirable franchise in the first place.  

But if old fans are such an important block of fans, why don't they buy more comics?

Plus I would argue that younger fans are more important because they will be fans for longer and are more likely to actually go see movies. Like someone who was 14 in 1962 when Spiderman first appeared in comics is now 76. I don't think there are many movies marketed to 76 year olds at all. On the flip side my daughter is 11 and loves Spiderman. But she is way more excited to find out when the next Spider-verse movie comes out than the next Tom Holland movie.

iarwain

iarwain

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But if old fans are such an important block of fans, why don't they buy more comics?

I'm not saying the old fans are the ones who are going to the movies, or are even buying comics these days.  Comparatively few people are buying comics these days.  I'm saying the old fans are responsible for making the franchises popular in the first place, and they deserve some consideration for that.  Also, the ideas that made the franchises popular in the first place should not be cast aside.  

But I would also say maybe the old fans would still be buying more comics if they hadn't been abandoned in the first place.

Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

35 minutes ago, iarwain said:

But I would also say maybe the old fans would still be buying more comics if they hadn't been abandoned in the first place.

Wait were old fans abandoned by the movies or actually by comics? Are you saying they should be writing the same types of stories they were in the 60's to try to appeal to 70 year olds? Because that means no Miles Morales, no high tech T'Challa, no Deadpool and no Wolverine. I have read a lot of those 60's marvel stories and while they are good, I think even Stan Lee would say you have to evolve.

Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

38 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

‘Avengers: Doomsday’: Hayley Atwell Reprising Agent Carter Role In Marvel Studios Pic

Oh FFS, when will enough be enough? She already got the happy Endgame and hijacked What If, and she isn’t even a character in the comics pre-MCU. Give some other female characters a chance to shine!

  • Like 3
Tenshinhan

Tenshinhan

19 hours ago, iarwain said:

I'm saying the old fans are responsible for making the franchises popular in the first place, and they deserve some consideration for that. 

I don't think that they do.  Marvel does not owe the fans, old or new, anything.  They should be focused on delivering quality storytelling first and foremost, not giving the fans what they want.

19 hours ago, iarwain said:

Also, the ideas that made the franchises popular in the first place should not be cast aside. 

They haven't been.

19 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Wait were old fans abandoned by the movies or actually by comics? Are you saying they should be writing the same types of stories they were in the 60's to try to appeal to 70 year olds? Because that means no Miles Morales, no high tech T'Challa, no Deadpool and no Wolverine. I have read a lot of those 60's marvel stories and while they are good, I think even Stan Lee would say you have to evolve.

Agreed.  Marvel Comics would be nothing without the writers and editors who succeeded Stan Lee in the 1970s, 80s, 90s, and beyond.  And the MCU would not exist.

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh FFS, when will enough be enough? She already got the happy Endgame and hijacked What If, and she isn’t even a character in the comics pre-MCU. Give some other female characters a chance to shine!

Although I agree that we don't necessarily need any more Peggy, she was indeed a supporting character in the comics in the pre-MCU era.

tv echo

tv echo

According to Jeff Sneider (during The Hot Mic podcast with John Rocha), Chris Evans is taking on the identity of Nomad in Avengers: Doomsday - this is unconfirmed...

Quote

2:12 Chris Evans Returning to the MCU
5:54 BREAKING: Chris Evans Will Be Playing Nomad in His MCU Return
7:45 What Timeline Will He Be In and Is this the MCU's Plan for Returning Actors

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iarwain

iarwain

I still say if you aren't winning over the comic book fans, your box office is going to suffer.  Because the comic book fans are a small but loud and passionate group, and when a movie comes out, they will see the movie early.  And if they don't like it, they will poison the word of mouth, and the gate will suffer.  Hardcore fans can often destroy a film's trajectory.  So you are far better off pleasing them.

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Trini

Trini

21 hours ago, iarwain said:

I still say if you aren't winning over the comic book fans, your box office is going to suffer.  Because the comic book fans are a small but loud and passionate group, and when a movie comes out, they will see the movie early.  And if they don't like it, they will poison the word of mouth, and the gate will suffer.  Hardcore fans can often destroy a film's trajectory.  So you are far better off pleasing them.


Can "hardcore fans" ever really be pleased, though?

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Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

22 hours ago, iarwain said:

I still say if you aren't winning over the comic book fans, your box office is going to suffer.  Because the comic book fans are a small but loud and passionate group, and when a movie comes out, they will see the movie early.  And if they don't like it, they will poison the word of mouth, and the gate will suffer.  Hardcore fans can often destroy a film's trajectory.  So you are far better off pleasing them.

I don't think that comic book fans are one homogeneous group that all share the same opinions. If they did it would be way easier to write comics since there would be no debate among fans.

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iarwain

iarwain

20 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I don't think that comic book fans are one homogeneous group that all share the same opinions. If they did it would be way easier to write comics since there would be no debate among fans.

That's true, but I still think the more respect the writer has for the source material, the more chance it has to be successful.  That doesn't mean it has to be a 100% faithful adaptation, but it shouldn't be trashed either.  Look at the new trailer for the Superman movie by James Gunn.  It shows us a classic Superman, retaining the classic Superman tone.  Gunn knows what makes the Superman character work, he's not trying to turn him into Batman or whatever.

Kel Varnsen

Kel Varnsen

(edited)
18 hours ago, iarwain said:

That's true, but I still think the more respect the writer has for the source material, the more chance it has to be successful.  That doesn't mean it has to be a 100% faithful adaptation, but it shouldn't be trashed either.  Look at the new trailer for the Superman movie by James Gunn.  It shows us a classic Superman, retaining the classic Superman tone.  Gunn knows what makes the Superman character work, he's not trying to turn him into Batman or whatever.

But what is the "source material"? This isn't a movie based off of a single novel. It's over 80 years of comics continuity with countless retcons and a bunch of alternate universes. So if someone uses a story from the 90's is that faithful? Lots of the Avengers stuff is based on the Ultimate storyline, which itself isn't faithful to the original Avengers. Wolverine, Storm anf Nightcrawler aren't original X-Men so is that paying respect to the source material. What if for the next Spiderman movie they decided he would be friends with Iceman and Firestar. Not the source material but Spiderman and his Amazing Friends is pretty classic for a lot of people my age.

Actually now that I think about it for the next Spiderman movie I really hope that Peter has to rent out rooms in Aunt May's apartment just to help make ends meet while he goes to college. And he rents to two other college students named Bobby and Angelica.

Edited by Kel Varnsen
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iarwain

iarwain

7 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But what is the "source material"? This isn't a movie based off of a single novel. It's over 80 years of comics continuity with countless retcons and a bunch of alternate universes. So if someone uses a story from the 90's is that faithful? Lots of the Avengers stuff is based on the Ultimate storyline, which itself isn't faithful to the original Avengers. Wolverine, Storm anf Nightcrawler aren't original X-Men so is that paying respect to the source material.

The Ultimates (Ultimate Avengers) was a very interesting take, and popular.  The rebooted X-Men were far more popular than the originals, and they fit the concept.  They even included some members of the original team, and brought them all in eventually.  The Ultimate version of Spider-Man led to Miles Morales, also popular.  The Ultimate version of the Fantastic Four was, however, awful, and should never be used onscreen.  The worst parts of the Fan4stic movie were taken from the Ultimate version.

Speaking of Spider-Man, that character has been depicted numerous times on film, and has had several good movies.  So once a character has some good adaptations, I'm less upset if they want to start experimenting with him.  Like the Joker character, you can pick and choose the flavor you want.  

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