Felicity Smoak: Bitch With Wifi

[AES13]

 

Now for “You have a light inside of you that Sara never had”  It’s a crap line and I blame the writers more than I hold Felicity accountable and I’ll get into that soon.  Laurel isn’t someone filled with a wondrous light but she does lack the darkness Sara had that is the very thing that she channeled into her mask to create good.  That is the only context that Laurel has any more light than Sara. So Felicity then tells Laurel basically to find her own reason to keep wearing a mask and also that doing so is ok.

I was offended at the line like a lot of us where but in the end, the meaning I ascribed to it was that Sara was not hopeful or optimistic that she could atone for what she had had to do to survive.  She, like Oliver, seemed to feel the weight of the world on their shoulders.  She did what she could to help others but honestly did not seem to expect to ever be free of the guilt.  Laurel seems not to be burdened by any guilt (from what I can tell) so I think their affects reflect that.

 

It's increasingly difficult to differentiate between crap and purposeful writing on this show, one of the reasons that it's hard for me to give up on it.  I'm hopeful that the writers are just idiots instead of malicious and that maybe they'll smarten up, sooner rather than later.

[Tangerine]

MG seems to want to justify that line by saying that Sara was a tragic figure. But the thing is Felicity would never say that about Sara. Felicity's shown to be sunny and somebody who usually sees the best in people unless it's completely unwarranted like in Malcolm's case. I don't disagree that Sara probably did use the mask to hide her demons, but she came back to Starling City and left the League of Assassins to try to save whatever light she had left and Felicity knew that. She was sympathetic and never judged Sara for being part of the LoA. There were so many better ways to get that point across without sacrificing both Felicity and Sara's characters.

[VCRTracking]

From Meredith Borders on BADASS DIGEST:

How ARROW Failed Felicity

Or: how one of the most promising female characters on television has been reduced to a woman scorned.

 

Excerpt:

 

Arrow really lucked into this character. It's legend, now, that Emily Bett Rickards was intended to be a one-off role in the first season, but her performance was so fun, and her chemistry with Stephen Amell's Oliver so pleasing, that the writers kept her around. Remember Season One Felicity? Frizzy ponytail, funky manicures, frumpy office attire? And, of course, a scathing wit and awkward charm. Felicity was a new kind of character for the sidekick role: goofy, brilliant and quarrelsome. She never let Oliver push her around, and lord knows Oliver spends most of his show pushing people around.

 

But in spite, or because, of her occasionally truculent spirit, Felicity has always been a beacon of levity on a show that desperately needs it. She was always saying the wrong thing in just the right way, or pointing out the silliness in a situation that Oliver was almost certainly taking too seriously. Along with Diggle, she was the heart of Arrow, gently coaxing Oliver back toward his humanity with a few well-chosen words and an indomitable belief in his goodness, almost in spite of the man himself. She was indispensable to the team not only because she's one of the foremost hackers in the world, but because she's a bright light in a dour city.

 

And then Olicity happened.

 

[jay741982]

She is off base. Olicity would be fun if The writers would let it be. it's not to blame for Felicity being like she "Is" Oliver being a mess and jerking her around and doing something so fucking Dumb teaming up with Malcolm. Ugh I'm getting mad

[kismet]

I think some of the problem is that Olicity happened to writers that are not gifted in writing romance. It also came on too strong & ahead of schedule. It messes with their tightly planned plan. So what do they do blow it up. Start from scratch. Sounds good right, except they don't quite know why it worked in the first place. So they're reverting to what they know and that is romantic angst. Which is just horrible, because Oliver has enough angst in his life, the last person he needed it from was felicity. She used to be the voice in his head that inspired him to be better and find another way. Now the way they wrote her, she appears to be that nagging voice in his head, which can rub people the wrong way. Its the writers not knowing how to write strong female characters with out making them sound grating. They did it to LL, SL, AW. About the only female that was written strong without sounding bitchy was Moira & they repaid her by killing her.

Also, I think Olicity has been made an easy target for critics of the show to pick on. It doesn't matter that so many of the characters are been compromised for plot. The audience is simply feeling that the dynamic of the show is different, so people blame that on Olicity because it is an easy target. Olicity in some ways is to blame for the felicity character being perceived differently, but it has nothing to really do with Olicity & is more a victim of writing & plot. The show wants to evolve & expand so I think they use Olicity asa means to accomplish that. They tease it, twist it, break it & bend it because they know it will produce buzz & get a response. Like I said before I wish they had left Olicity alone after the s2 finale. If they had let it fester & linger in the background we could have still had a recognizable felcity getting stronger. Ray could have gone over better, LL could have still become the BC with less distraction from all this other angst. But they just couldn't resist another sucker punch to Oliver.

[Morena]

Ten single ladies to look up to on Valentine’s Day

http://www.hypable.com/valentines-day-single-ladies-television/

[Guest]

Just leaving this here quietly:

 

http://forever-erica.tumblr.com/post/111119794744

[jay741982]

Just leaving this here quietly:

 

http://forever-erica.tumblr.com/post/111119794744

SO MUCH WORD in that Tumblr Post!! Felicity is still very much the strong gorgeous woman that Oliver fell in love with

[NumberCruncher]

My disillusionment with Felicity lately has zero to do with her standing up for herself, being more vocal, or challenging Oliver and Co.  It frankly has very little to do with Olicity or lack thereof.  What is pissing me off is that she is being written so OOC this season (in unflattering ways, I might add) in order to further the storylines of the chosen costumed hero of the month.  It started with her caving to Ray's creeptastic stalki...er, I mean recruiting tactics, then segued into her allowing him to coax her into a "date" over a dress, and ended with her finally running a woman she befriended (and saved the life of) under the bus to elevate her less-capable sister whom she's only intimately known for about 20 seconds after aiding her in the cruelest deception one could ever perpetrate on their father.  All of those things don't show strength, IMO.  They are a result of lazy, contrived writing and that's why I've avoided the last 3 episodes altogether.  I keep hoping that things will turn around as the season heads into the final stretch but my hope is waning with every episode.  I think the crappy, plot-driven massacre of characters is the new normal on this show and right now I don't see any evidence that will change.

[wonderwall]

I think apart from Felicity's interactions with Ray and Laurel, she's been pretty in character. But that's just me. This doesn't increase my disillusionment of Felicity, but more Laurel and Ray. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by wonderwall

[SmallScreenDiva]

"Arrow" has shown me over the course of two seasons who Felicity is, so when she does something that appears out of character this season it's very easy for me to chalk it up to plot contrivances and overlook it. I know when I'm watching the character I've grown to love, or when I'm seeing or hearing the writers trying to force something.

[Guest]

Agreed. I hate to bring Laurel into this as an example because this is not her thread, but I honestly have no idea who Laurel really is, as a person. Her characterization and how she reacts to certain events and people is all over the place and fairly interchangeable at times so when Laurel does something, I don't know if I can say that it's OOC because I don't really have a base point to hold that against. It even goes all the way back to early s1 when she hated Oliver then wanted to be his friend, then disliked him again. There was so much back and forth.

 

With Felicity, however, everything I know about her over the last two seasons allows me to easily point out when something feels OOC because she's been consistent. She always stood up for her beliefs, always questioned Oliver and how he does things. She babbles, she's supportive, she's warm to everyone. And I feel like she has been out of character quite a few times this season. Admittedly those times were mainly in relation to Ray and now the two scenes with Laurel but her character has definitely been moulded to fit plot requirements one too many times and it's noticeable. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by Guest

[NumberCruncher]

I guess I should have worded my post a lot better but it was late and I was tired. I feel I have a good grasp of who Felicity is as a character after 2+ seasons and that's why she's my favorite character on the show. My point was that I'm disillusioned with the writing for her this season rather than the character herself. My post was responding to the general misunderstanding I'm seeing a lot within her fanbase that we're unhappy with Felicity because she's in conflict with Oliver (thus threatening Olicity) or even among the general show fans that she's being too forceful with her opinions and it's coming off as "whiny" or "too emotional". I believe the greater frustration is because of the factors I mentioned--the OOC contorting to suit plot and propping of masked characters at the expense of her own story. Felicity fans had been complaining for 2 seasons that she deserved a more fully realized backstory and while they got a slight hint of it in 3x05, they still didn't get that much. Furthermore, the rest of her existence this season has revolved around supporting Ray (who isn't even a series regular) as he transitions into his superhero persona. THAT is what I'm frustrated with.

[looptab]

 

Felicity's never been a strong actress

Whaaat?! What about "But I love him! He's my maaan!" LOL

[wonderwall]

Not including from Felicity's OOC moments, do you guys think she's grown as a character?

 

I think that she has. She's been emotionally ripped to shreds, but she's also become a stronger woman. This, I suppose, is shown how she walked away from Oliver romantically (even though she loves him) because Felicity decided that she doesn't want to get hurt by being someone that Oliver loves. Doing that takes strength, it takes a sense of self worth, it shows how independent she's grown... I guess Felicity walking away, while to some people made her seem bitchy, I think it made her into a stronger person. 

 

But IDK I can't think of any other way she's grown... I mean, she's become more selfish (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think Oliver needs to be more selfish too), she's become more of a fully realized characters with blatant flaws (saying borderline cruel things whilst in an emotional state is one of them)... But that's about it? Other than that, we don't see much because she's her OOC self with Laurel and Ray. 

[jay741982]

I think she has grown as a character yet she's still the same woman Oliver is very much in love with.

[Guest]

Not including from Felicity's OOC moments, do you guys think she's grown as a character?

 

I think that she has. She's been emotionally ripped to shreds, but she's also become a stronger woman. This, I suppose, is shown how she walked away from Oliver romantically (even though she loves him) because Felicity decided that she doesn't want to get hurt by being someone that Oliver loves. Doing that takes strength, it takes a sense of self worth, it shows how independent she's grown... I guess Felicity walking away, while to some people made her seem bitchy, I think it made her into a stronger person. 

 

But IDK I can't think of any other way she's grown... I mean, she's become more selfish (which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think Oliver needs to be more selfish too), she's become more of a fully realized characters with blatant flaws (saying borderline cruel things whilst in an emotional state is one of them)... But that's about it? Other than that, we don't see much because she's her OOC self with Laurel and Ray. 

 

I definitely think she's stronger (although I always thought she was a strong person) but she's also become a little hardened and I don't know if that's a good thing? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's the way EBR is playing her this season or if it's intentional but she seems a little cold. I can reason that she's hurting and protecting herself though so it's not a big issue. But it's just something I noticed when rewatching some scenes from s1 and s2 on youtube the other day. There's a big difference. There's a difference from the Felicity at the start of 301 and now too and part of me wants that old Felicity back.

 

I like that she's shown to have some flaws though. The complaints I saw last season were that Felicity was too perfect and put on some kind of pedestal and while I don't believe that's true, it's good that she's making mistakes this season. I think some of the things she's said and done have been, maybe not out of line but as you said, borderline cruel and perhaps unnecessary, but again she was in a highly emotional place and maybe she wanted to lash out? 

 

Aside from that I don't see any real growth to be honest. How can we see growth when she's just used to prop everyone else? She doesn't even have her own storyline aside from the love interest. Even how she acts with Ray is driven by her relationship with Oliver and what he has and hasn't done. It's a real shame.

[jay741982]

I definitely think she's stronger (although I always thought she was a strong person) but she's also become a little hardened and I don't know if that's a good thing? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's the way EBR is playing her this season or if it's intentional but she seems a little cold. I can reason that she's hurting and protecting herself though so it's not a big issue. But it's just something I noticed when rewatching some scenes from s1 and s2 on youtube the other day. There's a big difference. There's a difference from the Felicity at the start of 301 and now too and part of me wants that old Felicity back.

 

I like that she's shown to have some flaws though. The complaints I saw last season were that Felicity was too perfect and put on some kind of pedestal and while I don't believe that's true, it's good that she's making mistakes this season. I think some of the things she's said and done have been, maybe not out of line but as you said, borderline cruel and perhaps unnecessary, but again she was in a highly emotional place and maybe she wanted to lash out? 

 

Aside from that I don't see any real growth to be honest. How can we see growth when she's just used to prop everyone else? She doesn't even have her own storyline aside from the love interest. Even how she acts with Ray is driven by her relationship with Oliver and what he has and hasn't done. It's a real shame.

Yeah I've noticed especially in the last few episodes that in the Arrow Cave she seems cold. And I do wonder if it's cause her and Oliver have been strained almost all season. But then why is she strained with Diggle. I don't understand why MG has to try and destroy what made this show great.? Why does it have to evolve into a user depressing show? Felicity even saying lines where she would smile in seasons 1 and 2 says it almost emotionless. I do NOT want her only happy with Unlikeable Ray who contrary to what that Idiot MG says almost all her scenes with Loser are her crying or depressed or being hit on Creepy stalker man.

[Password]

She's cold because Ray will make her warm again.

I'll see myself out.

[wonderwall]

I definitely think she's stronger (although I always thought she was a strong person) but she's also become a little hardened and I don't know if that's a good thing? I'm not sure. I don't know if it's the way EBR is playing her this season or if it's intentional but she seems a little cold. I can reason that she's hurting and protecting herself though so it's not a big issue. But it's just something I noticed when rewatching some scenes from s1 and s2 on youtube the other day. There's a big difference. There's a difference from the Felicity at the start of 301 and now too and part of me wants that old Felicity back.

 

I like that she's shown to have some flaws though. The complaints I saw last season were that Felicity was too perfect and put on some kind of pedestal and while I don't believe that's true, it's good that she's making mistakes this season. I think some of the things she's said and done have been, maybe not out of line but as you said, borderline cruel and perhaps unnecessary, but again she was in a highly emotional place and maybe she wanted to lash out? 

 

Aside from that I don't see any real growth to be honest. How can we see growth when she's just used to prop everyone else? She doesn't even have her own storyline aside from the love interest. Even how she acts with Ray is driven by her relationship with Oliver and what he has and hasn't done. It's a real shame.

 

That's the thing though. Felicity has always been such a wonderful character with wonderful traits that maybe there isn't much room for her to grow? In what ways could Felicity grow? 

 

In season 2 Felicity grew as  she became more confident in herself and her abilities which was shown through how she blurted out less innuendos, how she became smarter by simply not going out to check on leads by herself after the Vertigo issue, how she remained steadfast in her beliefs...

 

But this season, Felicity is still all that she was in season 2 and season 1, however, she has changed as her life in the vigilante career track has taken a toll on her emotionally. I  like that Felicity has become a little more jaded a little more hardened because it goes to show that Felicity isn't a flat character. No one who goes through the stuff she goes through wouldn't not become a little more hardened and a little less naive. I'm glad Felicity has become less naive, less trusting (like not trusting Malcolm or Harrison). So yeah, this might not be considered 'growth', but it does show that Felicity is a dynamic character.

Edited February 18, 2015 by wonderwall

[Guest]

Yeah I've noticed especially in the last few episodes that in the Arrow Cave she seems cold. And I do wonder if it's cause her and Oliver have been strained almost all season. But then why is she strained with Diggle. I don't understand why MG has to try and destroy what made this show great.? Why does it have to evolve into a user depressing show? Felicity even saying lines where she would smile in seasons 1 and 2 says it almost emotionless. I do NOT want her only happy with Unlikeable Ray who contrary to what that Idiot MG says almost all her scenes with Loser are her crying or depressed or being hit on Creepy stalker man.

 

If Felicity was given the chance to have just one small scene with Diggle - like the scene she shared with Barry on the train over on The Flash - just one quiet honest moment where we saw how she was feeling, it would go a hell of a long way. Sadly, it's not deemed necessary. 

 

 

She's cold because Ray will make her warm again.

I'll see myself out.

 

Ew. Let's not. I don't need that mental image today. o_0

That's the thing though. Felicity has always been such a wonderful character with wonderful traits that maybe there isn't much room for her to grow? In what ways could Felicity grow? 

 

In season 2 Felicity grew as  she became more confident in herself and her abilities which was shown through how she blurted out less innuendos, how she became smarter by simply not going out to check on leads by herself after the Vertigo issue, how she remained steadfast in her beliefs...

 

But this season, Felicity is still all that she was in season 2 and season 1, however, she has changed as her life in the vigilante career track has taken a toll on her emotionally. I  like that Felicity has become a little more jaded a little more hardened because it goes to show that Felicity isn't a flat character. No one who goes through the stuff she goes through wouldn't not become a little more hardened and a little less naive. I'm glad Felicity has become less naive, less trusting (like not trusting Malcolm or Harrison). So yeah, this might not be considered 'growth', but it does show that Felicity is a dynamic character.

 

I agree, I just don't particularly like the way it's happened. I just think there could have been a better way to show how things have taken their toll emotionally so that everyone could see why she's behaving the way she is. Right now though, the majority of people think she's been a whiny emotional bitch and I fault the writing for that. I know why she's become hardened, I understand it, but not everyone does. I guess I just hate the Felicity hate and think it could have been prevented by a different way of writing. I don't know. It's hard to explain.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Guest

[apinknightmare]

The writing has definitely done a disservice to her, I agree, and the writing for her could absolutely be better. But honestly-and this makes me incredibly sad-there's always going to be that contingent that thinks she's a whiny emotional bitch because they aren't willing to look below the surface regardless of how she's written. Oliver's the hero, they're rooting for him, he's laid his heart on the line to her, and she isn't taking his bullshit. And she's not afraid to stand up to him and let him know when she's upset. She's not kowtowing to him or pining for him or waiting for him to get his shit together, and there are people who just won't ever like or accept that because he's Oliver Queen and he should get what he wants.

 

I love Felicity, but I'm gonna need her to stop crying all the time. Not that she doesn't have reason to cry or be emotional, because she absolutely does. All the people on this show go through so much I can barely comprehend how they get out of bed in the morning, and this season Felicity is no exception. I just want to see glimpses of the Felicity I've grown to know and love over the past couple of seasons sprinkled in between those other moments, because I miss her, and that makes it all more bearable to watch. 

[wonderwall]

I love Felicity, but I'm gonna need her to stop crying all the time. Not that she doesn't have reason to cry or be emotional, because she absolutely does. All the people on this show go through so much I can barely comprehend how they get out of bed in the morning, and this season Felicity is no exception. I just want to see glimpses of the Felicity I've grown to know and love over the past couple of seasons sprinkled in between those other moments, because I miss her, and that makes it all more bearable to watch. 

 

I have a feeling that the show is done with the "beat the characters up real good" stage and is now moving onto the "rehabilitation" stage. Oliver is starting his rehab with quality time with his sister, Diggle with his wedding, Felicity with (ugh) Ray... 

 

Can I mention that I hate, hate, HATE how Felicity is saddled with Ray? I feel like that's one of the major letdowns for her character. Another way the writers have failed her is just how she doesn't get her own arc, how she just doesn't have her own thing. She's helping RAY build his own suit, she's helping Oliver and the team with saving Starling, she's helping Laurel do her own thing... WHEN WILL FELICITY FOCUS ON HERSELF?! I mean, I know she's a selfless character, but damn, this doesn't mean she can't do her own thing once in a while. 

[Password]

Hehe I actually meant warm her up emotionally. But I see what you mean.

Eh I think it comes down to Felicity lacking a POV. We saw how vulnerable she was in The Flash crossover ep 4. I don't know where I'd be if I didn't get to see her walls down, if I didn't get to see how heavy Oliver hangs over her head. But hopefully (not counting on it) we'll see more from Miss Smoak than truth bombs and uplifting speeches.

Personally she's always been a strong character to me. Unless you mean her not really doing anything about being moved from the IT department to work with Oliver, to her choosing to work with Ray (still bitter). She always knew her mind and what she stood for. She could tell who was evil and who had a crappy hand dealt to them. I think it would be a failure on this shows behalf if they only show her being hardened by working with vigilantes. I asked myself over the hiatus if Felicity would ever suffer from PTSD. Cracking under the pressure seems normal, especially for someone not YET hardened by life. When EBR mentioned suffering night tremors I thought that seems very normal. Of course then she mentioned Ray and ruined everything.

The only thing I'd really like to see from her is actually breaking away from QC/Palmer Tech. I wouldn't mind her taking on some of her comic counter part's traits in starting her own IT company. I thought that's what would happen at Palmer Tech, and maybe it will.

[apinknightmare]

WHEN WILL FELICITY FOCUS ON HERSELF?! I mean, I know she's a selfless character, but damn, this doesn't mean she can't do her own thing once in a while. 

 

I agree. I'm not even picky at this point, just give me a scene of her getting a nice pedi or a massage or even relaxing in a bath, damn. I'm sure any of those things would get interrupted by various vigilantes, but still. It would be nice to see, even just for a second.

[Guest]

I have a feeling that the show is done with the "beat the characters up real good" stage and is now moving onto the "rehabilitation" stage. Oliver is starting his rehab with quality time with his sister, Diggle with his wedding, Felicity with (ugh) Ray... 

 

Can I mention that I hate, hate, HATE how Felicity is saddled with Ray? I feel like that's one of the major letdowns for her character. Another way the writers have failed her is just how she doesn't get her own arc, how she just doesn't have her own thing. She's helping RAY build his own suit, she's helping Oliver and the team with saving Starling, she's helping Laurel do her own thing... WHEN WILL FELICITY FOCUS ON HERSELF?! I mean, I know she's a selfless character, but damn, this doesn't mean she can't do her own thing once in a while. 

 

 

Sadly, I don't think we're quite at that rehab stage yet. Ugh.

 

The trouble is, having a romance with Ray is going to make Felicity look worse. It really shouldn't but if people are hating on her for not telling Oliver how she feels, they're really going to dislike her for hooking up with Ray just a few episodes after Oliver comes back from the dead. I have a really bad feeling that's what is going to happen in 315. 

 

The whole storyline is a mess. It would be better if she did just focus on herself (but apparently Felicity has to ride a dick to somehow be 'even' with Oliver according to some people smh) and they removed the romance equation with Ray. It would even make Ray look better. Just the two of them working together and maybe Felicity trying to find something that she feels has been displaced with Team Arrow, who just seem to be in a shambles right now. I could totally be on board with that. But right now this possible romance with Ray is throwing me right off because I just don't think there's any choice to make. 

 

Sigh. I wish the writers would realize that not even Felicity is bulletproof. I don't have a good feeling about any of it. I hope I'm wrong though.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Guest

[wonderwall]

If Felicity does get with Ray, I don't think it'll make her look worse to me. She shut Oliver out romantically. That doesn't mean she can't try to move on. Do I hate it that it's with Ray? Absolutely. He's such a non-entity and just... I just don't like him :p I'd much rather Felicity move on with Eddie from Flash or Barry. I feel like they're much more likable. 

 

Will people hate her more though? Unfortunately. Apparently people don't understand the concept of moving on, which is what Felicity will try to do now. Because, as mentioned before, Oliver is the protagonist. People look out for is best interest and other characters (especially female) can be damned. 

 

Imo the best case scenario for Felicity is for her to just move on from Oliver by focusing on herself. But noooooooo, Arrow is a glorified soap opera (AK confirmed this) so obviously a woman can't have a moment to focus on herself. smh

[Guest]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Personally I don't fault her for trying to move on but I can see why everyone else will. I was talking more about the general audience than myself. 

 

And yeah, I wish it wasn't with Ray too. He's the actual worst. I think Felicity and Barry would have been really cute actually. I never really thought much of them when he was on Arrow in s2 but for some reason I really liked their chemistry when they were on The Flash in episode 104. Shame. :( 

 

Yep. The misogyny of this show is infuriating. 

[Password]

Eh tbh I don't think any romantic relationship Felicity's goes into right now would be healthy, Ray or Oliver. She's been through emotional upheaval, after emotional upheaval. I wish the writers would allow her to say "screw this, I need a vacation". But then her steps to realising she's doing this for herself would be null and void.

If it were Barry, I'd be all over that ish because they're 10 different kinds of adorable. But it would still seem very temporary.

[Carrie Ann]

I have a feeling that the show is done with the "beat the characters up real good" stage and is now moving onto the "rehabilitation" stage. Oliver is starting his rehab with quality time with his sister, Diggle with his wedding, Felicity with (ugh) Ray...

 

 

I don't think we're done yet, and that's partly responsible for my dread for the rest of the season. I'm so OVER the constant barrage of shit piled on these characters, with so few moments of emotional catharsis. Oliver gets a few (with Thea, Roy, sometimes Diggle), Laurel gets a few, but no one else really does. And Felicity in particular has taken a lot on her shoulders this season but her moments of positive emotion are directed outward. At Laurel, for two episodes in a row; at Ray, repeatedly. 305 was the only exception I can think of where others supported her and she got to experience an emotional journey that ended on a positive note for her.

 

The problem for people who fell in love with this show when it focused on Original Team Arrow is that we came to expect that Dig, Felicity, and Oliver would challenge and support each other, and grow tighter in every episode. Terrible things would happen, but almost none of the episodes ended without some sense of closure that these people were taking care of each other (that extended to Sara at this point last season, too). This season, they've basically eliminated the D/F and O/F dynamic. (Dig and Oliver still get a few moments together (like in 313), but the writing for Dig is so inconsistent, that I can't really get a gauge on that relationship either.)

 

I love Felicity, but I'm gonna need her to stop crying all the time. Not that she doesn't have reason to cry or be emotional, because she absolutely does. All the people on this show go through so much I can barely comprehend how they get out of bed in the morning, and this season Felicity is no exception. I just want to see glimpses of the Felicity I've grown to know and love over the past couple of seasons sprinkled in between those other moments, because I miss her, and that makes it all more bearable to watch. 

 

I would have been happy for Felicity to move out of the Support-Only mode and into the Receiving-Support mode, but instead, while she herself is going through more emotional shit than ever before, they've basically just kept her in Support-Only mode, but only for characters IDGAF about. That's not satisfying for me. I think we're supposed to feel relieved that she can find some solace in Ray, this great guy who openly cares about her. But the myriad problems with that relationship dynamic, plus the fact that it's such a transparent ploy to drum up interest and investment in a new costume, make that a non-starter. And do you notice that any emotional catharsis they share just leads to her agreeing to help him with something? That said, I do think it's possible that we're past the tears stage for Felicity, which would be a relief.

 

To go all the way back to the original question you posed, @wonderwall: I think we're supposed to see a growth arc for Felicity where she moves into Boss mode, where she's running all these superheroes, realizing her own reasons for being in the fight, and becoming this confident person who stands up to all these Big Bads. Which is great, but again, it's hard for me to look at it that way because what I actually see is the writers putting her in that role so she can shine her light on weaker characters. And also, whether it's an acting or writing issue or both--in order to make Felicity seem "stronger," they've basically changed her demeanor, like she's imitating Amanda Waller or something. My ideal for a Boss Felicity is the "Bitch with Wifi" scene, and my ideal for her facing off with a big scary person is the "Felicity Smoak, MIT, Class of '09" scene. But instead, they just make her scowl and drop her voice real low. It's getting old, and sort of undercuts Felicity being strong in her own way. If you look at 302-313, it's 90% tears and scowls, and it's hard to believe that she's supposed to be the "light" of this grimfest. Or maybe that's Laurel now?

[dtissagirl]

I really wish Felicity was building a robot armor for herself, and Palmer was the genius tech guy [creepiness optional] who would help her with it. Because then the storyline would be Felicity's.

[Ang]

My ideal for a Boss Felicity is the "Bitch with Wifi" scene, and my ideal for her facing off with a big scary person is the "Felicity Smoak, MIT, Class of '09" scene. But instead, they just make her scowl and drop her voice real low. It's getting old, and sort of undercuts Felicity being strong in her own way. If you look at 302-313, it's 90% tears and scowls, and it's hard to believe that she's supposed to be the "light" of this grimfest. Or maybe that's Laurel now?

I agree with the above, and I absolutely think they're intentionally making her darker so Laurel doesn't suck so much in contrast. I think I remember reading things prior to this season about how they were going to start doing more with her character, and unfortunately what that meant is turning her into the same perpetually tortured sob-story as the other main characters. And so while I think there's still some potential for growth for the character, I don't think we've seen it yet so much as we've seen her enduring circumstances that could lead to that growth.

What I think is sad is how little the creators of the show seem to understand what worked about her character. I still like Felicity - she's still surprisingly tough, they let her be a little witty occasionally, and EBR can't help being adorable - but they've dropped a lot of the really essential notes, and the show overall is suffering for it.

My theory is that the character in S1-2 worked as an access point for the audience. I've seen F and Diggle referred to as avatars, and I think that's close but not entirely it. Felicity grounded the Arrowverse in the real world; she kept it relatable and provided contrast so that the heaviness of the other characters bore more weight and carried more meaning. With Felicity around making little cracks about things, providing a more typical moral outlook, being scared and sad, and even talking more about prosaic things like food, annoying jobs, and, you know, ferns, all of a sudden Oliver seems that much more tortured, scarred, focused, intense, etc. When everybody we see on the show acts like a fight with a criminal is no big thing, for example, it's harder for the audience to be impressed. When no one on the show ever smiles, it's the entire world of the show that's joyless and unrelatable. With Felicity acting as a foil, the misery these idiot producers like to heap on their characters gets thrown into relief.

(Side note: they go to all this trouble to cast the prettiest skinny people in all of Canada/that they can convince to live in Vancouver. The show is littered with these incredibly beautiful human beings with tremendously charismatic smiles that they never get to use. How do they not realize the potential they have to connect with the audience on an emotional level by letting us see these pretty people smiling? Even just once in a while, as a contrast to the usual agony, and it'd be enough for our brains to create a powerful positive connection with the show and keep coming back.)

And now I've ranted so long I've forgotten my other points. Basically, I think EBR has done an amazing job overall at creating consistency within a character that has been really unevenly written at times, and that follows for what we've seen this season. It makes sense that around Oliver or in the tragic aftermath of some traumatizing event (which are the only times we've seen her) she would be tense and emotional. I hope at some point in the future, though, we get to see her not only bounce back with the resilience and healthy, humorous perspective she's needed to get through her life and still act the way she did S1-2, but also hold on to the maturity, confidence, and self respect we may be watching her gain right now.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Ang

[Morena]

14. Felicity Smoak (Arrow). Willa Holland On TV & Film’s Most Badass Women

http://www.buzzfeed.com/iramadison/thea-queen-of-the-throne?utm_term=.cd7O5qKRx#.kyaQJ5NdK

[statsgirl]

I agree with the above, and I absolutely think they're intentionally making her darker so Laurel doesn't suck so much in contrast. I think I remember reading things prior to this season about how they were going to start doing more with her character, and unfortunately what that meant is turning her into the same perpetually tortured sob-story as the other main characters. And so while I think there's still some potential for growth for the character, I don't think we've seen it yet so much as we've seen her enduring circumstances that could lead to that growth.

What I think is sad is how little the creators of the show seem to understand what worked about her character. I still like Felicity - she's still surprisingly tough, they let her be a little witty occasionally, and EBR can't help being adorable - but they've dropped a lot of the really essential notes, and the show overall is suffering for it.

My theory is that the character in S1-2 worked as an access point for the audience. I've seen F and Diggle referred to as avatars, and I think that's close but not entirely it. Felicity grounded the Arrowverse in the real world; she kept it relatable and provided contrast so that the heaviness of the other characters bore more weight and carried more meaning. With Felicity around making little cracks about things, providing a more typical moral outlook, being scared and sad, and even talking more about prosaic things like food, annoying jobs, and, you know, ferns, all of a sudden Oliver seems that much more tortured, scarred, focused, intense, etc. When everybody we see on the show acts like a fight with a criminal is no big thing, for example, it's harder for the audience to be impressed. When no one on the show ever smiles, it's the entire world of the show that's joyless and unrelatable. With Felicity acting as a foil, the misery these idiot producers like to heap on their characters gets thrown into relief.

David Ramsey said at that con that thank goodness they brought Felicity into the cave because until then it was just Oliver and Diggle growling at each other.

This season, Felicity's been added to that growling.

 

I've always been very against the idea of Felicity actually dating Ray much less sleeping with him. But right now, I almost think I'd enjoy it, just to get Felicity to have a bit of happy times. 

 

That's what this show had done to me.

[jay741982]

14. Felicity Smoak (Arrow). Willa Holland On TV & Film’s Most Badass Women

http://www.buzzfeed.com/iramadison/thea-queen-of-the-throne?utm_term=.cd7O5qKRx#.kyaQJ5NdK

LOL I think Willa would love a Thea/Felicity friendship! Or Thelicity LOL

[Actionmage]

Felicity/ Thea and Felicity/ Lyla for Fall 2015!

[TanyaKay]

Willa is not the only one. Felicity Smoak is wife goal for everyone.

Plus I am really happy that Buzzfeed put Felicity in the list of most Bad ass women.

[jay741982]

Felicity/ Thea and Felicity/ Lyla for Fall 2015!

Lyla has her own badass she's marrying lol. But yes Felicity/Thea BFFS and Felicity/Oliver Romaticlly for 2015.

Willa is not the only one. Felicity Smoak is wife goal for everyone. Plus I am really happy that Buzzfeed put Felicity in the list of most Bad ass women.

Felicity is definitely wifey material and I love that she was on that list

[BkWurm1]

I would have been happy for Felicity to move out of the Support-Only mode and into the Receiving-Support mode, but instead, while she herself is going through more emotional shit than ever before, they've basically just kept her in Support-Only mode, but only for characters IDGAF about. That's not satisfying for me. I think we're supposed to feel relieved that she can find some solace in Ray, this great guy who openly cares about her. But the myriad problems with that relationship dynamic, plus the fact that it's such a transparent ploy to drum up interest and investment in a new costume, make that a non-starter. And do you notice that any emotional catharsis they share just leads to her agreeing to help him with something? That said, I do think it's possible that we're past the tears stage for Felicity, which would be a relief

 

It occurs to me that Felicity ending up dating Ray is nearly inevitable when you realize that nobody except Ray is giving Felicity any emotional support.  Oliver cut off any support after the date, which was horridly painful to watch since Felicity was still trying to connect with him for several episodes.  He made a little attempt in Secret Origins but it came with a clear reminder that he was pushing her away.  Diggle hasn't been anything more than Oliver's voice piece.  Roy at least was there to offer a hug after Sara died but while they are friend, he's not someone she turns to for support.  Barry is the closest we saw to her reaching for support but he's far away and has his own issues.  Laurel, even if she was the type to be supportive has been buried in her own myopic situation with her sister and Felicity is just barely now repairing a strained relationship with her mother.  So that leaves Ray. 

 

It's not even that Ray is doing anything special, he's just for a very long time happened to be there and wasn't unkind.  They've progressed to friends - probably because he's the only one that has been treating he as more than just a co worker.      It's worse when you realize that Felicity has still been trying to supply emotional support to others. 

[jay741982]

It occurs to me that Felicity ending up dating Ray is nearly inevitable when you realize that nobody except Ray is giving Felicity any emotional support.  Oliver cut off any support after the date, which was horridly painful to watch since Felicity was still trying to connect with him for several episodes.  He made a little attempt in Secret Origins but it came with a clear reminder that he was pushing her away.  Diggle hasn't been anything more than Oliver's voice piece.  Roy at least was there to offer a hug after Sara died but while they are friend, he's not someone she turns to for support.  Barry is the closest we saw to her reaching for support but he's far away and has his own issues.  Laurel, even if she was the type to be supportive has been buried in her own myopic situation with her sister and Felicity is just barely now repairing a strained relationship with her mother.  So that leaves Ray. 

 

It's not even that Ray is doing anything special, he's just for a very long time happened to be there and wasn't unkind.  They've progressed to friends - probably because he's the only one that has been treating he as more than just a co worker.      It's worse when you realize that Felicity has still been trying to supply emotional support to others.

It's why I hating what MG is doing. He is trying to force me to like Raylicity and I do not like it! It's bullshit what he's done to OG Team Arrow to force Ray on me. Isolate him with Felicity why is he doing this. It's obvious feelings for Oliver are being projected onto Ray and I have no idea why Guggentroll is destroying what worked for two seasons. Now I know it's very possible Oliver/Felicity/Diggle are all in a real good place by seasons end but yet this IIC seem to think this show has to be so depressing that you wanna stop watching(Im speaking for myself of Course).

[Password]

It's a very obvious and deliberate ploy to isolate Felicity from TA and allow Ray to step in as a form of Prince Charming. It's why at first I found it difficult to take him seriously because he kind of had/has a "for plot" stamp on his forward.

They had to basically ignore any Diggle-Felicity relationship and ensure Ray provides support and understanding every time she cries at QC. They even went as far as to make Diggle ONLY pro Oliver when he's normally neutral to ensure there's really only one place for her to run to.

It's very frustrating.

[jay741982]

It's a very obvious and deliberate ploy to isolate Felicity from TA and allow Ray to step in as a form of Prince Charming. It's why at first I found it difficult to take him seriously because he kind of had/has a "for plot" stamp on his forward.

They had to basically ignore any Diggle-Felicity relationship and ensure Ray provides support and understanding every time she cries at QC. They even went as far as to make Diggle ONLY pro Oliver when he's normally neutral to ensure there's really only one place for her to run to.

It's very frustrating.

Yeah it's fucking bullshit cause there is no reason why MG had to do this. I don't understand how this is evolving the show for the better. Felicity and Oliver were fine and she has way better chemistry with Oliver . But they make Oliver stupid so they can force Ray on us. It's obvious Ray is a Substitute for Oliver. But of course Laurel and Ray must be forced on people and MG works to hurt what made the show great

[quarks]

Yeah it's fucking bullshit cause there is no reason why MG had to do this. I don't understand how this is evolving the show for the better. Felicity and Oliver were fine and she has way better chemistry with Oliver . But they make Oliver stupid so they can force Ray on us. It's obvious Ray is a Substitute for Oliver. But of course Laurel and Ray must be forced on people and MG works to hurt what made the show great

 

Responding in relationships thread.

[Trini]

Felicity Smoak: Heromaker?

[Ariah]

Felicity should, by all means, have a life outside the Arrow Cave. She should have a love life that makes her happy, not miserable and perpetually angry.

 

But why would the writers let her have those two things at the same time her friends were keeping a deadly assassin in the Arrow Cave and the man she supposedly loves/loved goes on another suicide mission (with her good friend tagging along)? The Felicity I know would hack satelites and hang over coms to keep her bespectacled eyes on the two dots signifying Oliver and Diggle...

 

This is not the Felicity I know and love. This is a construct / plot device.

[Betweenthisandthat]

But why would the writers let her have those two things at the same time her friends were keeping a deadly assassin in the Arrow Cave and the man she supposedly loves/loved goes on another suicide mission (with her good friend tagging along)?

 

The timing was not good.  I prefer her with Ray than with Oliver - if she has to be with anyone at all - because Oliver gets on my very last nerve except when he's talking to Diggle and maybe Thea, and I don't mind the idea of "Raylicity" but Oliver and Diggle were in trouble and everyone else is concerned about Sara's death and what that means while Felicity is getting laid.

 

Then again, maybe Felicity is the only one with her priorities straight.  I like that she's the one enjoying her life a little and isn't getting dragged in the same darkness that is surrounding everyone.  Anyway, Oliver's not in the same kind of trouble so it's not like he's getting stabbed as she's with Ray.  

Edited February 26, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[kismet]

There are 2 other major OOC things that they are doing with Felicity that are bothering me. And I love FS from s1&2, so killing me to watch them do this.

 

1. In 315, they made her seem like a flimsy shallow gold-diggeresque girl. Im not saying that she shouldn't be impressed with RP riches. I mean, but she spent over 2 years with OQ, clearly being around wealth should not be that eye-opening for her. Its that same way she was so easily impressed by his vintage gown & expensive necklace. But really, after wandering around his priceless paintings and other luxury elements in his apt, it was then that she decided to kiss him & fall for his ridiculous I forgot Im only wearing a towel move. It was just so tacky cliche juvenile rom com bs. It was just so sad to watch this strong, independent, intelligent female get so easily swayed by superficial things. We all love beautiful things, but I guess it was the way they presented it in this ep, that it made her choice seem more about the superficial than anything else. I could totally get behind her sleeping with RP, if it was about RP - but right now the way they are showing it, it is more about her being mad about OQ & being impressed by the superficial things about RP. I just always saw FS as someone with different priorities. But it seems to move plot, they had to take away certain things from her... like her integrity it seems.

 

2. The FS, I know & love would have pulled OQ aside just once in this episode to have a convo about why he is really going to NP. I get the dynamics of TV with Feb & May sweeps. But seriously, who lets someone they care about go off to face death again without talking to him??? These are extenuating circumstances, the writers could have made an exception. All it would have taken would FS to say, OQ can we talk. It wouldn't have been her trying to change his mind, just her trying to understand him. He could have revealed that although the mission was to save Thea's soul, it was also to save his & recover what he lost during that fall. It seems like he can't move fwd with any aspect of his life, until he recovers what he lost, so he was on that jet regardless of their talk. But the beauty of them having that conversation, is he still would have gone to NP, and she would have still likely slept w/ RP, so there would be not major change in the EP's grand plot. In fact, it would have strengthen both of their choices. But what it would have also done, is proven that FS is still present inside & still cares about OQ, even platonically. I get that FS & the writers want her to move on. And I understand that she is not getting much from OQ since 301 & RP is perfectly presenting himself as an alternative. But what bothers me, is that the writers seem to think that her moving on, somehow strips her of any present concern for OQ, which I think is fundamentally not true. It would have been nice to see her care enough to actually try to talk to him. We all know OQ is not gonna volunteer to talk, but she could have tried to reach out to him, like she's done in the past when she was just his friend. You can move on romantically from someone and still care about them, the writers have shown OQ do it with LL, Helena & even Sara. They wasted an opportunity to show that Felicity has that level of emotional maturity, which up until this season I truly thought she did, until the plot needs got in the way.

[Password]

I refuse to watch ep 15 so I have a question. Felicity playing house this ep with RoboCop, how did it come across? I mean did it seem like displaced feelings? Is she giving up on trying to convince Oliver at all? Is she trying to save Ray (really)? The EPs seem to be trying to sell that Felicity actually has feelings for creep and vice versa. What did it seem like?

Edited February 26, 2015 by Limbo

[apinknightmare]

I refuse to watch ep 15 so I have a question. Felicity playing house this ep with RoboCop, how did it come across? I mean did it seem like displaced feelings? Is she giving up on trying to convince Oliver at all? Is she trying to save Ray (really)? The EPs seem to be trying to sell that Felicity actually has feelings for creep and vice versa. What did it seem like?

 

It definitely seemed like displaced feelings - she mentioned Oliver to Ray (not by name) more than once, and went to him for the final time (she'd been to his apartment twice before IIRC) right after Oliver decided he was going off to NP again but that he would most definitely for sure not be killed this time. I think she was trying to get Ray out of the "all ATOM all the time" mindset ("saving him") because she was genuinely worried about him, but as far as the kiss/sex goes, it definitely seemed to be in reaction to Oliver's choices. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Password]

Thank you for that. Wait she went to his house 3 times?