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Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

WendyCR72
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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35 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

No pity for Alex’s husband’s real killer either. So you found God and became a doctor. Big whoop. Doesn’t make up for getting away with murder

Yep, which is exactly what Alex told Doc. If he were truly sorry, he would have turned himself in and confessed.

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peacheslatour
peacheslatour

Oh you guys, such sad news. Richard Belzer, dead at 78 Richard Belzer, who began his career as a comedian and morphed into his iconic role of police detective John Munch first in Homicide: L

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Something I made last year when with hubby who was stuck in the hospital. You may have to click to see the full pic.

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Elizabeth "Free Javelins" Rodgers was one of the greatest unsung heroes of the entire franchise!! ☺

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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The Sundance marathon just concluded with "Want". All my opinions of this freaky episode still stand.

I will never understand why Bobby felt at all sorry for John Tagman, the freak.

I am on Team Alex when we learn of Tagman's fate at the end.

And Neil Patrick Harris did do a good job.

But this is one episode that just skeeves me out, which says a lot, considering how bleak Season 4 is altogether.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The Sundance marathon just concluded with "Want". All my opinions of this freaky episode still stand.

I will never understand why Bobby felt at all sorry for John Tagman, the freak.

I am on Team Alex when we learn of Tagman's fate at the end.

And Neil Patrick Harris did do a good job.

But this is one episode that just skeeves me out, which says a lot, considering how bleak Season 4 is altogether.

I’ll will never understand why Goren chose to go to bat for that sicko piece of human waste Tagman. Tagman was a sick fuck who tortured two women, killing one and leaving another permanently brain damaged - he drilled into their skulls, poured hot water on their brains and ate part of his victims calf muscle. What a sick freak. If Tagman had been psychotic or unable to comprehend his actions were wrong, I would understand not wanting to execute him, but that wasn’t the case, he knew exactly what he was doing, carried out his crimes with cold precision and he knew it was wrong as he felt bad about it afterwards. I’m not one to support the death penalty for a lot of cases - but Tagman deserved it, premeditated torture murder is as heinous as it gets.  
I love Goren, but I have no idea why he cared about what happened to Tagman and got so upset with Carver about it. Goren was really off at the start of season 4 between his sympathy for Tagman and his sympathy for the sicko woman in episode 1 of that season.

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Bumblebee84047

Bumblebee84047

(edited)
On 2/6/2023 at 12:13 PM, peacheslatour said:

Bobby Goren is so damn cute. 

Eames "I just told the captain that I'm pregnant. He said when the time comes, he'll set you up with a temporary partner."

Goren "Oh no! I didn't even think of that!"

And the way Eames said "he hugged me." And the look on Eames and Goren's faces.  One of my favorite small moments from the enitre series.

Edited by Bumblebee84047
Correct typo.
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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42 minutes ago, Bumblebee84047 said:

And the way Eames said "he hugged me." And the look on Eames and Goren's faces.  One of my favorite small moments from the enitre series.

Yes! I find those little moments helped characterization and just made the show that much more fun/interesting, depending on said moments.

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

The Sundance marathon just concluded with "Want". All my opinions of this freaky episode still stand.

I will never understand why Bobby felt at all sorry for John Tagman, the freak.

I am on Team Alex when we learn of Tagman's fate at the end.

And Neil Patrick Harris did do a good job.

But this is one episode that just skeeves me out, which says a lot, considering how bleak Season 4 is altogether.

I have a friend who knew several of Dahmer's victims and - since Tagman was obviously based on Dahmer - I can never fathom the sympathy Bobby feels for him, nor the sympathy I feel we are expected to feel vicariously (at least, through Goren's sympathy for him).

Tagman was a monster. What he did to those women was horrible and unforgivable. Goren's feelings were so weirdly misplaced in that case.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

13 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

I have a friend who knew several of Dahmer's victims and - since Tagman was obviously based on Dahmer - I can never fathom the sympathy Bobby feels for him, nor the sympathy I feel we are expected to feel vicariously (at least, through Goren's sympathy for him).

Tagman was a monster. What he did to those women was horrible and unforgivable. Goren's feelings were so weirdly misplaced in that case.

Yep I cannot understand why Goren felt sympathy for Tagman - his crimes were among the most heinous we ever saw on CI. Tagman deserved a lethal injection IMO, what he did was beyond sick and horrific. Goren really irritated me in this episode and I found his sympathy for the loony woman in Semi Detached a couple of episodes earlier bizarre as well. 

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Andyourlittledog2

Andyourlittledog2

Watched the season three episode The Saint today and was shocked that I never noticed that Stephen Colbert played the bad guy in it. He looked so young in 2001 that I kept thinking that maybe it wasn't really him so I checked the guy's ear and sure enough, it was his wonky ear.  He played a stiff and bottled up character so it worked for him. I'm afraid if he had to play someone more exuberant Colbert wouldn't have the acting chops to pull it off. But it worked. I like him as a comedian much better though.

I love these Sundance and WE marathons. I miss CI so much.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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38 minutes ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Watched the season three episode The Saint today and was shocked that I never noticed that Stephen Colbert played the bad guy in it. He looked so young in 2001 that I kept thinking that maybe it wasn't really him so I checked the guy's ear and sure enough, it was his wonky ear.  He played a stiff and bottled up character so it worked for him. I'm afraid if he had to play someone more exuberant Colbert wouldn't have the acting chops to pull it off. But it worked. I like him as a comedian much better though.

I love these Sundance and WE marathons. I miss CI so much.

And the victim that Colbert's character killed, the actress playing her ended up on Daredevil as villain Wilson Fisk's mother. Fisk, of course, is played by Vincent D'Onofrio.

Funny how it all ties together.

And I love the marathons, too! I also miss this show.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

I just watched Lonelyville, I don’t recall ever seeing this episode discussed on here before and I like it, it has an interesting and complex case with the blackmail scheme and con artists with the lawyer and girlfriend setting up the writer to be blackmailed, I liked the Logan/Falacci investigation. As I’ve said before I really wish Falacci had stayed on instead of dull as dirt Wheeler. Ross was actually decent in this episode and not as much of a dick as usual. Good episode.

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Lonelyville, I don’t recall ever seeing this episode discussed on here before and I like it, it has an interesting and complex case with the blackmail scheme and con artists with the lawyer and girlfriend setting up the writer to be blackmailed, I liked the Logan/Falacci investigation. As I’ve said before I really wish Falacci had stayed on instead of dull as dirt Wheeler. Ross was actually decent in this episode and not as much of a dick as usual. Good episode.

I really liked Falacci too. Second only to Eames. As you say, I wish she had been permanent. Wheeler was such a flat character.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I liked that Logan became the default "voice of reason". Lol.

Yeah that was an interesting role reversal. Logan was much calmer and more seasoned on CI than he was on the Mothership, I guess between age and experience and being demoted and sent to Staten Island for assaulting the politician he changed. Falacci added an interesting dynamic to the show, and I wish she had stuck around. I found all 5 of Falacci’s episodes interesting, I particularly liked Senseless and Lonelyville. Wheeler just did nothing for me, and it doesn’t help that her seasons are when I felt CI’s writing was at its weakest, I have the controversial opinion of season 6 being the weakest CI season, and I really disliked all of the angst they put Goren through in seasons 6-7, meaning I enjoyed the Logan episodes more usually from that time.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Speaking of which, in my market they're having Untethered at 4:00 pm. I will not be watching. 

I noticed it was on earlier, Purgatory is on now, I switched over to Mothership reruns on Sundance when they started as I would rather watch seasons 13-14 Mothership episodes over season 7 of CI. Don’t like the angst they put on Goren at all in seasons 6-7, he lost his mojo and became worn down with baggage.

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I noticed it was on earlier, Purgatory is on now, I switched over to Mothership reruns on Sundance when they started as I would rather watch seasons 13-14 Mothership episodes over season 7 of CI. Don’t like the angst they put on Goren at all in seasons 6-7, he lost his mojo and became worn down with baggage.

I hate what they did to him in those seasons. Here, they had probably one of the greatest actors to ever grace a television screen and they wasted him.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

10 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I hate what they did to him in those seasons. Here, they had probably one of the greatest actors to ever grace a television screen and they wasted him.

Yep I hate it as well and it’s why I don’t consider seasons 6-7 of CI to be must see tv and I don’t make it a point to watch those seasons when they air - when the first 5 seasons of CI are on I frequently rewatch those episodes over and over, and then there was a sharp decline in the show in season 6 - I hated how they took away a lot of the complex, in depth cases in favor of soapy drama. I’m glad season 10 happened and gave us back the Goren we knew, he regained his mojo then and the 8 season 10 episodes felt more like classic CI than the soapy mess of seasons 6-7. 

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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"Lonelyville" was okay, but I cannot reconcile Tammy as both a cunning accomplice with "Lee" as detailed versus the drip the show had shown on screen.

She bugged me for whatever reason.

And with the numerous guys they blackmailed, you mean to tell me they NEVER made ONE mistake, with no one coming forward before Anya was murdered?

As I said, it was okay, but the plot holes distracted me.

I do wish there was a postscript of where Falacci went after Wheeler came back, whether back to Brooklyn or elsewhere.

But then, it seemed the franchise never explained the fates of any of the temporary partners/detectives it had, so...

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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Looking at the Season 7 episode list:

"Seeds"

"Lonelyville"

"Courtship"

"Offense"

"Senseless"

These were all the Falacci episodes, so yep...only 5! And ending on "Senseless" was sort of a downer, anyway, given the subject matter.

Still wonder if there was something more planned with the character since TPTB had Wheeler find Falacci's "Princess" mug on her desk, but maybe it was just meant as a joke. But that seemed rather pointless.

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ML89

ML89

(edited)

I wish Falacci had stayed too, she and Logan seemed to have fun together while Wheeler was a drip, honestly. Seeds always cracks me up because Logan had the EXACT same case on Mothership with the doctor impregnating women with his own sperm and he never mentions it. What's that joke about "if I had a nickel for each time it's happened to me, I'd have two but..."

Edited by ML89
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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11 hours ago, ML89 said:

I wish Falacci had stayed too, she and Logan seemed to have fun together while Wheeler was a drip, honestly. Seeds always cracks me up because Logan had the EXACT same case on Mothership with the doctor impregnating women with his own sperm and he never mentions it. What's that joke about "if I had a nickel for each time it's happened to me, I'd have two but..."

And practically the same TITLE, too. "Seed"/"Seeds". Times like that, you can tell the same folks worked across all shows in the franchise!

Never got why Falacci was so worried when Logan almost forgot his "wedding ring" in the one scene, though. Doubt workers really look for that, not to mention many couples just live together now, anyway.

Maybe prickly Falacci had a soft/romantic spot. LOL!

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

Oh you guys, such sad news.

Richard Belzer, dead at 78

Richard Belzer, who began his career as a comedian and morphed into his iconic role of police detective John Munch first in Homicide: Life on the Street and then in Law & Order: SVU, among other TV dramas, died today. He was 78. There are no specifics at press time on the cause of his death.

“I'm so sad to hear of Richard Belzer's passing,” tweeted original Saturday Night Live cast member Laraine Newman. “I loved this guy so much. He was one of my first friends when I got to New York to do SNL. We used to go out to dinner every week at Sheepshead Bay for lobster. One of the funniest people ever. A master at crowd work. RIP dearest.”

 

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

16 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Kind of bummed that we never got a Munch/Goren scene. The quirkiness would have been in the stratosphere.

I’ve always said the franchise really missed out by never having a Munch/Goren scene, those were the 2 most unique detectives in the franchise. And Munch appeared on so many shows - it’s a real shame he never crossed over to CI. I really wish the franchise had done some sort of 3 way crossover with Mothership/CI/SVU back when all of the shows were on, the way they did with Mothership/SVU/OC this season. There are so many characters I would’ve liked to have seen interact with each other. 

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I’ve always said the franchise really missed out by never having a Munch/Goren scene, those were the 2 most unique detectives in the franchise. And Munch appeared on so many shows - it’s a real shame he never crossed over to CI. I really wish the franchise had done some sort of 3 way crossover with Mothership/CI/SVU back when all of the shows were on, the way they did with Mothership/SVU/OC this season. There are so many characters I would’ve liked to have seen interact with each other. 

I would have liked seeing Goren and Stabler. I wonder how Stabler's machismo would rub up against Goren's deeply penetrating insight.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I would have liked seeing Goren and Stabler. I wonder how Stabler's machismo would rub up against Goren's deeply penetrating insight.

Yeah, as much as I like both Goren and Stabler, I think Goren wouldn't like Stabler's rough-going style, and I think Goren would annoy Stabler!

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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"Playing Dead" is ending. Betty Gilpin, who played Stacy, really has gone on to a good career. I know she was in the now-defunct GLOW which was on Netflix.

(She also played the victim, Amanda, daughter of the police commissioner, in Season 6 in "The War At Home".)

The last of the marathon, "Rock Star", is next, a.k.a. Zack Nichols makes his debut.

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

7 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

"Playing Dead" is ending. Betty Gilpin, who played Stacy, really has gone on to a good career. I know she was in the now-defunct GLOW which was on Netflix.

(She also played the victim, Amanda, daughter of the police commissioner, in Season 6 in "The War At Home".)

The last of the marathon, "Rock Star", is next, a.k.a. Zack Nichols makes his debut.

Unpopular opinion here but I liked Nichols. If only he had a decent partner.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Unpopular opinion here but I liked Nichols. If only he had a decent partner.

I thought I was the only one who thought Nichols was a decent character! It’s just too bad his partners were lifeless and wooden - if he had had a good partner, as well as a better commanding officer, his episodes would be viewed better. I liked his 2 episodes paired with Eames.

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

58 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I thought I was the only one who thought Nichols was a decent character! It’s just too bad his partners were lifeless and wooden - if he had had a good partner, as well as a better commanding officer, his episodes would be viewed better. I liked his 2 episodes paired with Eames.

I did too. I wouldn't put him with Falacci but someone with some spunk would have been nice.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

Watching Family Values now with religious fanatic killer Paul Devildis, it’s a creepy and chilling episode, good one though, Goren was really good in it and had more energy than he normally had at this point of the show and Ross for once wasn’t irritating. I like season 8 better than most people, it wasn’t great but it didn’t have all of the soapy shit of seasons 6-7. I really like Goren’s final confrontation with Devildis. 

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

11 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Watching Family Values now with religious fanatic killer Paul Devildis, it’s a creepy and chilling episode, good one though, Goren was really good in it and had more energy than he normally had at this point of the show and Ross for once wasn’t irritating. I like season 8 better than most people, it wasn’t great but it didn’t have all of the soapy shit of seasons 6-7. I really like Goren’s final confrontation with Devildis. 

Huh. I always skip that one. Mr. Devil-dis (get it?) is just a little too creepy for me. And I really don't like listening to that kind of preaching. It's good to know that Goren got some of his mojo working again though.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Huh. I always skip that one. Mr. Devil-dis (get it?) is just a little too creepy for me. And I really don't like listening to that kind of preaching. It's good to know that Goren got some of his mojo working again though.

Yeah Goren did have his mojo in that episode. Devildis was super creepy, that’s for sure, he was a deranged nutbag spree killer and it was implied he had an attraction to his daughter and that’s why he took her to the country house and didn’t kill her when he was killing everyone else in his life. Definitely a dark and disturbing episode. 

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peacheslatour

peacheslatour

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Goren did have his mojo in that episode. Devildis was super creepy, that’s for sure, he was a deranged nutbag spree killer and it was implied he had an attraction to his daughter and that’s why he took her to the country house and didn’t kill her when he was killing everyone else in his life. Definitely a dark and disturbing episode. 

And it's way past Season four, where things got really dark.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

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3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really like Goren’s final confrontation with Devildis. 

Yes! VDO brought back some of Bobby's passionate interrogation there. (Of course, a life was at stake. Maybe why?) But that scene was so well done by both Vincent D'Onofrio and David Harbour!

Now "All In", the "is he Josh Snow or is he Joey Frost?" episode has just started.

I don't hate S8, it just seemed...a bit disjointed what with airing out of order and being so short due to the 2008 Writers' Strike...

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yes! VDO brought back some of Bobby's passionate interrogation there. (Of course, a life was at stake. Maybe why?) But that scene was so well done by both Vincent D'Onofrio and David Harbour!

Now "All In", the "is he Josh Snow or is he Joey Frost?" episode has just started.

I don't hate S8, it just seemed...a bit disjointed what with airing out of order and being so short due to the 2008 Writers' Strike...

Yep, and season 8 is even more disjointed since they don’t air the episode The Glory That Was now, episode 8, because some people in Brazil got offended about it apparently. That’s so fucking bizarre. And yeah All In is so confusing, why didn’t they just keep the same character from Cruise to Nowhere, even if they had to get a different actor to play him? It takes me out of the whole episode it’s so confusing. Cruise to Nowhere in season 5 was a great episode though.

But yeah I do like Family Values and especially Goren confronting Devildis at the end, and the darkness of it and creepiness of Devildis gave the episode a horrific feel that was effective. 

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