Law & Order: Criminal Intent - General Discussion

[Xeliou66]

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Charge! has a movie on now ("Witness" with Harrison Ford/Kelly McGillis), but listings have two CI episodes (the last two episodes of S1, "Faith" and "Tuxedo Hill") airing at 11:00 p.m. and midnight, so it is not completely scuttled tonight.

The Charge listings have been a bit off this week, different episodes have aired than the ones scheduled to air. So while I’m sure CI will air later, I’m curious to see if it will be those episodes. I’ll check it out after the college football game is over. 

[WendyCR72]

Just now, Xeliou66 said:

The Charge listings have been a bit off this week, different episodes have aired than the ones scheduled to air. So while I’m sure CI will air later, I’m curious to see if it will be those episodes. I’ll check it out after the college football game is over. 

Yeah, listings have been wonky, but I think they were updated to the outlets that have listings online, because last night's batch was the first set to match up in a few days now. But, as you said, we'll see!

[WendyCR72]

So, "Suite Sorrow" has just begun on Charge!, and I still like the little scene where Bobby asks Alex about Botox paralyzing facial muscles with Alex responding, "Does it look like I'd know?"

Also love the Polaroid scene later on, not to mention Alex and the lady playing 20 questions regarding Alex's skin routine in the waiting room!

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

So, "Suite Sorrow" has just begun on Charge!, and I still like the little scene where Bobby asks Alex about Botox paralyzing facial muscles with Alex responding, "Does it look like I'd know?"

Also love the Polaroid scene later on, not to mention Alex and the lady playing 20 questions regarding Alex's skin routine in the waiting room!

I like that episode a lot - the twist that the guy was sleeping with his daughter’s fiancé was one of the wildest ones on the show. He was really a manipulative creep. 

[ML89]

I saw "Seeds" again last night (tape delay) and once again wished Falacci had stayed as Logan's partner. They had a great snarky vibe together (and if the firefighters had beaten up Logan in front of her, she'd've shot a couple and pistol whipped the rest). I also still don't know why they didn't mention the older case (I stg they used the SAME ID NUMBER from the earlier ep of Mothership!)

Edited December 6, 2023 by ML89

[Xeliou66]

55 minutes ago, ML89 said:

I saw "Seeds" again last night (tape delay) and once again wished Falacci had stayed as Logan's partner. They had a great snarky vibe together (and if the firefighters had beaten up Logan in front of her, she'd've shot a couple and pistol whipped the rest). I also still don't know why they didn't mention the older case (I stg they used the SAME ID NUMBER from the earlier ep of Mothership!)

Agreed 100% about Falacci, she added a spark to the show and had good chemistry with Logan, whereas Wheeler was dull as dirt, and it was interesting to see Logan have to play the “peacemaker” role occasionally between Falacci and Dickhead Ross. 
And yeah it would’ve been great continuity if Logan had mentioned the season 5 Mothership case about the fertility doctor using his own sperm. 

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I like that episode a lot - the twist that the guy was sleeping with his daughter’s fiancé was one of the wildest ones on the show. He was really a manipulative creep. 

Hal Linden played charming sleaze extremely well! To let his own daughter go to prison [this is before she killed Daddy, naturally!] for what he did, not to mention getting things on with his own daughter's fiancé!

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed 100% about Falacci, she added a spark to the show and had good chemistry with Logan, whereas Wheeler was dull as dirt, and it was interesting to see Logan have to play the “peacemaker” role occasionally between Falacci and Dickhead Ross. 
And yeah it would’ve been great continuity if Logan had mentioned the season 5 Mothership case about the fertility doctor using his own sperm. 

And with almost the same exact title, "Seed"/"Seeds". I guess the extra "s" makes a difference. LOL!

[Xeliou66]

6 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Hal Linden played charming sleaze extremely well! To let his own daughter go to prison [this is before she killed Daddy, naturally!] for what he did, not to mention getting things on with his own daughter's fiancé!

And with almost the same exact title, "Seed"/"Seeds". I guess the extra "s" makes a difference. LOL!

Yeah that guy in Suite Sorrow was smug manipulative sleaze, he’s definitely on the long list of CI’s worst parents. It’s not surprising the daughter snapped and killed him. The twist that he was banging his daughter’s fiancé was great.

[WendyCR72]

While the actor playing Spencer Durning's son was quite good and heartbreaking, as I have said prior, I really don't care much for "Cold Comfort", which is airing now on Charge!.

Probably because of the fantastical plot point of someone "recovering" from Alzheimer's and...no. The writers probably could not think of another angle as to why the Senator's brain would warrant theft to study it, but this plot point really offends me.

As much as I wish that it were possible to recover from dementia/Alzheimer's, it isn't, and such a fictitious bent seems like an aberration, since the franchise usually at least tried to stay within the realm of reality, more or less.

[Xeliou66]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

While the actor playing Spencer Durning's son was quite good and heartbreaking, as I have said prior, I really don't care much for "Cold Comfort", which is airing now on Charge!.

Probably because of the fantastical plot point of someone "recovering" from Alzheimer's and...no. The writers probably could not think of another angle as to why the Senator's brain would warrant theft to study it, but this plot point really offends me.

As much as I wish that it were possible to recover from dementia/Alzheimer's, it isn't, and such a fictitious bent seems like an aberration, since the franchise usually at least tried to stay within the realm of reality, more or less.

Agreed Cold Comfort is one of my least favorite episodes from the early seasons - both because of the absurdity of the whole brain recovering from Alzheimer’s plot point, that was just not realistic as you say, and because they never even caught the person who committed the actual murder - the hitwoman was still at large at the end. In fact it was completely forgotten about trying to track down who actually did it and they just focused on motive. I don’t think they had enough evidence to make any charge stick against Durning, because they didn’t even have the murderer. That just seemed ridiculous as well. The episode had a lot of potential but the ridiculousness of some of the plot ruined it for me.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Agreed Cold Comfort is one of my least favorite episodes from the early seasons - both because of the absurdity of the whole brain recovering from Alzheimer’s plot point, that was just not realistic as you say, and because they never even caught the person who committed the actual murder - the hitwoman was still at large at the end. In fact it was completely forgotten about trying to track down who actually did it and they just focused on motive. I don’t think they had enough evidence to make any charge stick against Durning, because they didn’t even have the murderer. That just seemed ridiculous as well. The episode had a lot of potential but the ridiculousness of some of the plot ruined it for me.

Excellent point about the hitwoman, and a big loose thread.

Especially when you consider that Eloise was the daughter of a once-presidential hopeful. For that alone - right or wrong [because EVERYONE deserves such attention to detail, not just the few!] - more effort would have realistically been put into finding that person and prosecuting!

And I will be unpopular: As much as I love S1 and S3 is good, S2 is actually one of my least-favorite of the early seasons due to this episode and the whole Nicole/anthrax angle that begins in "Zoonotic" and then weighs down the death of the military nurse in "A Person of Interest", even if I do like the scene of G/E once Bobby realizes that he let his arrogance get in the way.

That final S2 episode still could have been good without Nicole popping up like an unwanted weed in a flower garden. Especially since she never pays.

[WendyCR72]

A three-episode block is on Sundance, starting now with "Offense".

Edited for proper episode title!

[WendyCR72]

Also, the Charge! evening block starts at 6 tonight going until 9. Why the change, not sure.

Some episodes are also airing tomorrow beginning at 5:00 p.m. until 1:00 a.m. ET Sunday morning.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Excellent point about the hitwoman, and a big loose thread.

Especially when you consider that Eloise was the daughter of a once-presidential hopeful. For that alone - right or wrong [because EVERYONE deserves such attention to detail, not just the few!] - more effort would have realistically been put into finding that person and prosecuting!

And I will be unpopular: As much as I love S1 and S3 is good, S2 is actually one of my least-favorite of the early seasons due to this episode and the whole Nicole/anthrax angle that begins in "Zoonotic" and then weighs down the death of the military nurse in "A Person of Interest", even if I do like the scene of G/E once Bobby realizes that he let his arrogance get in the way.

That final S2 episode still could have been good without Nicole popping up like an unwanted weed in a flower garden. Especially since she never pays.

Yeah they just forgot about the hitwoman in Cold Comfort, that was really strange. That along with the absurdity of the whole plot about the dead guy’s brain makes it one of the weakest episodes of the early season.

I think S2 is a great season overall - Cold Comfort is weak and you know I loathe Nicole, but there are a lot of stellar season 2 episodes, some of my all time favorites are from season 2 - off the top of my head I consider Dead, Best Defense, Tomorrow, Bright Boy, See Me, Suite Sorrow, Baggage and Cherry Red to be amongst my all time favorite CI episodes.

[WendyCR72]

38 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah they just forgot about the hitwoman in Cold Comfort, that was really strange. That along with the absurdity of the whole plot about the dead guy’s brain makes it one of the weakest episodes of the early season.

I think S2 is a great season overall - Cold Comfort is weak and you know I loathe Nicole, but there are a lot of stellar season 2 episodes, some of my all time favorites are from season 2 - off the top of my head I consider Dead, Best Defense, Tomorrow, Bright Boy, See Me, Suite Sorrow, Baggage and Cherry Red to be amongst my all time favorite CI episodes.

I do enjoy "Best Defense" to see Peter Kelmer get his butt handed to him by G/E, the arrogant tool. And "See Me" since it managed to once more give a bit more dimension as far as Bobby went.

And "Dead", which we have often discussed.

My wording may have been too harsh, as those are great episodes. Still, overall, even so, I still think S1 and S3 beat S2. But it's all just preference!

[peacheslatour]

5 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

A three-episode block is on Sundance, starting now with "Offense".

Edited for proper episode title!

But did you see what's on after that? No way, I won't watch that episode again.

[WendyCR72]

Just now, peacheslatour said:

But did you see what's on after that? No way, I won't watch that episode again.

Yeah, I can only watch "Untethered" to a point, myself...

[Xeliou66]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I do enjoy "Best Defense" to see Peter Kelmer get his butt handed to him by G/E, the arrogant tool. And "See Me" since it managed to once more give a bit more dimension as far as Bobby went.

And "Dead", which we have often discussed.

My wording may have been too harsh, as those are great episodes. Still, overall, even so, I still think S1 and S3 beat S2. But it's all just preference!

Peter Bonham was the name of the perp in Best Defense. Kelmer was the surgeon from The Good Doctor in S1. Best Defense is a compelling episode and Peter Bonham was extremely pathetic, his wife seemed very nice and loving but his ego just couldn’t handle that he lost to her in court so he tried to frame her for murder. I liked the heavier role for Carver in that episode and how he even interfered unknowingly in the plot at the start, that was good.

I love all of the early CI seasons - it’s hard to pick a favorite, S3 probably had the fewest amount of weak episodes, the only S3 episode I consider weak is FPS, that plot was just to bizarre to follow. Not a huge fan of Pravda or The Saint in S3 either. If Eames had been in all of S3 it might be definitely my favorite but the show wasn’t the same when she was replaced by the weaker Bishop character, even if most of the cases with Bishop were good. S2 has a lot of great episodes, but I am not a fan of the Nicole episodes, and I don’t care for Cold Comfort or Chinoiserie. S1 has mostly great episodes, only episodes I consider duds are The Insider, Enemy Within, The Faithful and maybe The Pardoner’s Tale. So out of the first 3 seasons I might rate S2 the weakest as well, because of the introduction of Nicole plus Cold Comfort and Chinoiserie being arguably the 2 weakest episodes of the early seasons of CI. 

[WendyCR72]

On 12/8/2023 at 7:20 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Peter Bonham was the name of the perp in Best Defense. Kelmer was the surgeon from The Good Doctor in S1.

You're absolutely right. Why I put Kelmer instead of Bonham mystifies me.

I blame holiday stress!

Meh. The rest of the post stands. 😋

[Xeliou66]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

You're absolute right. Why I put Kelmer instead of Bonham mystifies me.

I blame holiday stress!

Meh. The rest of the post stands. 😋

It’s an interesting discussion about what the strongest season of CI is - I love all of the first 5 seasons, which I consider to be the “classic” CI seasons. Seasons 6 and 9 are my least favorite seasons by far. 
I hear where you are coming from about season 2, while I really like most season 2 episodes there are a couple of duds plus the intro of Nicole. 
I see that a season 3 marathon starts at 5 on Charge, some good episodes in that bunch, no football on today so I’ll watch that. 

[TakomaSnark]

Me: Oh yay, CI is on!

/sees it's from the G. Lynn Bishop era

[Xeliou66]

Just watched A Murderer Among Us, I like this episode a lot, Brody is such a chilling, hate filled villain. His meltdown at the end was quite memorable. I did wonder why Lena didn’t just divorce Lance and go to the police with what she had instead of killing herself. I felt really bad for their daughter, who was now completely alone knowing her dad was a serial killer and her mom killed herself because of that, I’m not sure if she would ever be okay. I do have to say the detectives were lucky that Brody had his meltdown at the end and confessed, because they didn’t have much evidence against him. Brody’s sister was a nasty bigot as well. It’s a gripping episode.

Sound Bodies is starting now, another strong episode with a memorable villain in Connie. It still makes me laugh that they changed City Island to “Channel Island” in this episode.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Sound Bodies is starting now, another strong episode with a memorable villain in Connie. It still makes me laugh that they changed City Island to “Channel Island” in this episode.

Especially since, as I pointed out prior, City Island was mentioned in "Lady's Man" in Season 8 when Alex told Bobby it was where she had honeymooned with Joe.

But then, also as I said, the show seemed to go back and forth with aliases versus real names. The early seasons used New York Ledger as a front for New York Post, but the latter was mentioned in some very late-season episode I don't recall now.

So... *shrug*

And "Happy Family" is the last of the marathon on Charge! as I type, and Paula Connors is still such a nasty piece of work here. No wonder Jason was so messed up and killed his father!

[Spartan Girl]

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Just watched A Murderer Among Us, I like this episode a lot, Brody is such a chilling, hate filled villain. His meltdown at the end was quite memorable. I did wonder why Lena didn’t just divorce Lance and go to the police with what she had instead of killing herself. I felt really bad for their daughter, who was now completely alone knowing her dad was a serial killer and her mom killed herself because of that, I’m not sure if she would ever be okay. I do have to say the detectives were lucky that Brody had his meltdown at the end and confessed, because they didn’t have much evidence against him.

You just answered your own question about why Lena didn’t just go to the police. But yeah, poor Claire. She basically has no one now.

[Xeliou66]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

You just answered your own question about why Lena didn’t just go to the police. But yeah, poor Claire. She basically has no one now.

I just had a hard time believing that Lena would leave her daughter all alone knowing what kind of hateful monster her husband was. Maybe she thought she could frame her husband for her death and send him to prison, but she should’ve known that plan might not work. 

 

19 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Especially since, as I pointed out prior, City Island was mentioned in "Lady's Man" in Season 8 when Alex told Bobby it was where she had honeymooned with Joe.

But then, also as I said, the show seemed to go back and forth with aliases versus real names. The early seasons used New York Ledger as a front for New York Post, but the latter was mentioned in some very late-season episode I don't recall now.

So... *shrug*

And "Happy Family" is the last of the marathon on Charge! as I type, and Paula Connors is still such a nasty piece of work here. No wonder Jason was so messed up and killed his father!

City Island has been mentioned many times on the franchise, and one later season SVU episode had a lot of scenes on City Island and it was called by its actual name. It’s funny that in this episode they switched the name - I guess someone from City Island didn’t want it associated with a bunch of murders, or the writers thought they didn’t.

Also Interesting was that Charge placed a content warning before A Murderer Among Us, just saying that it had mature content, it didn’t do that for any other episode. I thought that was odd - the episode doesn’t have any graphic violence or anything that might be censored - yes it involves hate murders so I guess that was enough for Charge to place the content warning on it, although nothing in the episode was censored. I notice that Charge does occasionally censor CI, which I strongly dislike, Sundance and WE don’t censor CI, although they do censor certain lines on the Mothership. 

[Spartan Girl]

6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just had a hard time believing that Lena would leave her daughter all alone knowing what kind of hateful monster her husband was. Maybe she thought she could frame her husband for her death and send him to prison, but she should’ve known that plan might not work. 

Desperate people don’t think clearly. Especially since she probably felt complicit in the whole thing since 1) she was oblivious to what he was really like for so long and 2) he used her and her job to pick several of his victims.

[Xeliou66]

2 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Desperate people don’t think clearly. Especially since she probably felt complicit in the whole thing since 1) she was oblivious to what he was really like for so long and 2) he used her and her job to pick several of his victims.

Yes I have a feeling her feeling guilty over her husband’s murders is the biggest reason she killed herself, she just couldn’t live with knowing what her husband really was. 

[WendyCR72]

Since Lance Brody's crimes were indeed based upon hate, I'm also guessing it's why Charge! decided to place the content warning.

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Since Lance Brody's crimes were indeed based upon hate, I'm also guessing it's why Charge! decided to place the content warning.

It’s odd how some stuff gets a content warning and some stuff gets censored while others don’t. I like that Sundance and WE don’t censor CI episodes, but I’ve noticed Charge does censor certain lines in certain episodes. I’ve never seen a content warning for CI before. 

[wknt3]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:04 PM, Xeliou66 said:

City Island has been mentioned many times on the franchise, and one later season SVU episode had a lot of scenes on City Island and it was called by its actual name. It’s funny that in this episode they switched the name - I guess someone from City Island didn’t want it associated with a bunch of murders, or the writers thought they didn’t.

Most likely it was not the writers, but the lawyers or the network weasels who changed the name. Or at least made the policies that changed the name. In general the rule is the name is kept if it's just a reference to add a dash of realism or instant relatability, and changed if it is related to a crime or other negative activity. With the notable exception that they don't bother coming up with fictional names for semi-failed states that harbor criminals such as Russia. Or New Jersey.

[Xeliou66]

Season 4 is on WE today 

Just watched The Good Child, this is a strong episode and I love how Goren/Eames trick Trevor and Maureen into confessing. The ending with Trevor screaming “EGGCUP” is pretty great.

Now starting is Beast, with Colleen and Gregory, another great episode. I love the investigation in this one and how they link everything together, such a twisted plot.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Season 4 is on WE today 

Just watched The Good Child, this is a strong episode and I love how Goren/Eames trick Trevor and Maureen into confessing. The ending with Trevor screaming “EGGCUP” is pretty great.

Now starting is Beast, with Colleen and Gregory, another great episode. I love the investigation in this one and how they link everything together, such a twisted plot.

Yep, EGG CUP is right up there with STONES AROUND MY NECK from Wrongful Life.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Yep, EGG CUP is right up there with STONES AROUND MY NECK from Wrongful Life.

“EGG CUP” maybe my favorite ending on CI - it makes me laugh every time. I love how Goren/Eames played Trevor and Maureen and used the woman in Buffalo to stage the call, knowing that Maureen knew what her voice sounded like so she would flip on Trevor. They were ice cold - they were going to kill their own daughter to get her money. 

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

“EGG CUP” maybe my favorite ending on CI - it makes me laugh every time. I love how Goren/Eames played Trevor and Maureen and used the woman in Buffalo to stage the call, knowing that Maureen knew what her voice sounded like so she would flip on Trevor. They were ice cold - they were going to kill their own daughter to get her money. 

Which is why, when John Shea reappeared as H. Jack Walker's rich daddy in "Legacy" in S7, all I could hear in my head was, "EGG CUP" LOL!

As an aside S4 is also on Charge! now, but the first episode, "Semi-Detached", with creepy Nelda Carson. And John Tagman is no doubt on the horizon. Ick. (Still wonder why VDO's credit picture in that one was different and changed to the one we got for the rest of the series post S3? I liked the one in "Semi-Deteched" more!)

S4 sure upped the creep factor for much of said season!

[Xeliou66]

33 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Which is why, when John Shea reappeared as H. Jack Walker's rich daddy in "Legacy" in S7, all I could hear in my head was, "EGG CUP" LOL!

As an aside S4 is also on Charge! now, but the first episode, "Semi-Detached", with creepy Nelda Carson. And John Tagman is no doubt on the horizon. Ick. (Still wonder why VDO's credit picture in that one was different and changed to the one we got for the rest of the series post S3? I liked the one in "Semi-Deteched" more!)

S4 sure upped the creep factor for much of said season!

John Shea also played a major role in a great Mothership episode, season 14’s Shrunk, where he played a disturbed musical composer who was being manipulated by his scummy shrink. When I watch that episode on Mothership reruns I frequently think of “EGG CUP” as well!!

Think I’ll stick with Mothership reruns tonight because I’m not a fan of the start of season 4 - while I love season 4 overall the start of it isn’t great - Nicole in episode 4 and Goren feeling sympathy for sickos in episodes 1 and 3. Want, with Tagman, while an interesting and disturbing case, pisses me off because of Goren’s sympathy for Tagman - it maybe the only time I get genuinely pissed at Goren - why the desperation for Tagman to avoid the death penalty? If Tagman was psychotic/severely mentally ill I would understand not wanting to execute him, but he wasn’t - he was just a sick fuck who thought the cure for loneliness would be making women brain damaged and eating their calf muscles. Fuck him. 

[WendyCR72]

The Charge! block must start earlier on Fridays.

Once again, it began at 6:00 p.m. ET and - for whatever reason - runs until midnight Saturday.

[WendyCR72]

As of New Year's Day, January 1, 2024 (duh! 😋), yet another channel picks up the show. This time, it is BBC America.

Per listings, it starts from the beginning at noon.

(As nice as it is that another station is giving viewers another channel to see this, seems BBC America has strayed far from its initial premise. Another MTV situation, I guess!)

Speaking of, it is on Charge! now.

[Xeliou66]

Some of the same episodes I saw recently on Sundance were on Charge tonight - The Good Child and Beast. Season 4 has so many classic episodes and those are two of the best - The Good Child has the diabolical bio parents and as I’ve said before I love how Goren/Eames got the woman in Buffalo to make the phone message to get Trevor and Maureen to flip on each other - clever idea.

Beast is an outstanding episode with a very twisted plot - Not sure who was worse, Colleen or Gregory - Gregory was an arrogant sociopath while Colleen was nuts, though it’s not surprising how messed up she was given her total bitch of a mom who only loved her “beautiful” sister. Again I liked how Goren got Colleen to incriminate herself in Lisa’s death by using her resentment of her mom and sister.

The ultra bleak No Exit is on now - one of CI’s darkest episodes, no sympathetic characters aside from the parents of all of the deceased. The episode has grown on me some as it does have an intriguing plot but it’s a bleak tale. I do love Eames telling the website guy to go do his dance in hell - great line. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I do love Eames telling the website guy to go do his dance in hell - great line. 

As I said before, I do wonder if that was scripted or improvised as VDO's really big smile after KE uttered the line made it appear that he was trying not to laugh!

[WendyCR72]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:31 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I hate what they did to Olivet in season 18 as well, because it made her look like a gigantic hypocrite and fraud. It is one of the worst moments of character assassination in the franchise. 

*ADA turned Judge turned lawyer again Jamie Ross has entered the chat...*

Yay for posting!

[WendyCR72]

Welcome back, lurkers and posters!

As someone had asked about reactions and "fixing" them, they seem to have reverted to what they were pre-update, except now, you will note the heart for "loving" a post is now blue rather than red.

And the smiley dude for LOL is a bit different!

[Xeliou66]

10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

*ADA turned Judge turned lawyer again Jamie Ross has entered the chat...*

Yay for posting!

That was the worst case of character assassination on original L&O. I cannot believe they did that really. And Olivet is the second worst.

SVU has trashed most of its characters at various times - what a shitshow it’s become.

CI didn’t trash it’s characters much which is good - although I’ll always despise the way in season 6 suddenly Goren became someone the higher ups disliked - that made no sense. Oh and Deakins exit was poor, just made him look like a quitter, I really wish that had been done better.

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That was the worst case of character assassination on original L&O. I cannot believe they did that really. And Olivet is the second worst.

SVU has trashed most of its characters at various times - what a shitshow it’s become.

CI didn’t trash it’s characters much which is good - although I’ll always despise the way in season 6 suddenly Goren became someone the higher ups disliked - that made no sense. Oh and Deakins exit was poor, just made him look like a quitter, I really wish that had been done better.

And I did not like the way they treated Carver.

[Xeliou66]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

And I did not like the way they treated Carver.

What do you mean? That he didn’t get an exit? I would’ve liked to have known why he left the DA’s office as well, but given that they did a pretty shoddy job with Deakins exit I’m afraid an exit storyline would’ve made Carver look bad somehow.

[peacheslatour]

23 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

What do you mean? That he didn’t get an exit? I would’ve liked to have known why he left the DA’s office as well, but given that they did a pretty shoddy job with Deakins exit I’m afraid an exit storyline would’ve made Carver look bad somehow.

He should have had more to do altogether but not giving him any sort of an exit seems disrespectful to me.

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

He should have had more to do altogether but not giving him any sort of an exit seems disrespectful to me.

100% agree Carver should’ve had more to do - he was a great lawyer - the times we saw him in court he was awesome, they underused him badly. It would’ve been nice if they explained his departure, but exits always make me nervous - look how they did Deakins exit and on the Mothership how they did Green’s exit. I like to think Carver became a judge.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

100% agree Carver should’ve had more to do - he was a great lawyer - the times we saw him in court he was awesome, they underused him badly. It would’ve been nice if they explained his departure, but exits always make me nervous - look how they did Deakins exit and on the Mothership how they did Green’s exit. I like to think Carver became a judge.

That would be cool. I would love to see him pop up as a judge on SVU sometime.

[Xeliou66]

5 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

That would be cool. I would love to see him pop up as a judge on SVU sometime.

I wish he would pop up as a judge on the Mothership and for them to find a way for him and Jack McCoy to interact - A McCoy/Carver scene would be great - it’s a shame McCoy never appeared on CI. Carver mentioned him once and McCoy mentioned Carver once on the Mothership, but they never crossed over. Who knows, anything can happen, it would be awesome if Carver popped up, as long as they don’t do to him what they did to Jamie Ross and take a big fat shit on the character. I think our best chance of seeing Carver again is if they give us some sort of CI revival/movie - I know VDO has said he would be open to playing Goren again, so maybe we’ll get a CI movie/limited series or something and they can reunite the CI characters - would be great. 
I still wish they had found a way to bring Carver and Deakins back for cameos in season 10 when they knew they were ending - they gave Goren/Eames such a good sendoff but it would’ve been nice to see Deakins/Carver one final time and reunite the original 4 characters. Maybe it could still happen, nothing is off limits in the Dick Wolf universe, I never imagined they would revive L&O and give us Jack McCoy on our screens each week again, or that they would give Stabler his own spinoff from SVU, so they could give us more CI.

[peacheslatour]

I can't watch the revived Mothership. Sam Waterston makes me sad.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

CI didn’t trash it’s characters much which is good - although I’ll always despise the way in season 6 suddenly Goren became someone the higher ups disliked - that made no sense. Oh and Deakins exit was poor, just made him look like a quitter, I really wish that had been done better.

Deakins should have left via a promotion. It still would have given us a new captain, since Sheridan wanted out, but it would have been better for Deakins!