Friends - General Discussion

[Katy M]

17 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Had Rachel specifically not been invited? I didn't think Emily had any issues with Rachel up to that point. The "don't ever see Rachel again" bit came after the wedding and name slip-up. I thought Rachel was invited, and spent a great deal of time trying to decide if she should go or not.

No, she got an invitation.  Ross and Emily discussed it, she thought it would be awkward, but ultimately left it up to him. Rachel declined the invitation because she thought it would be weird, but just said she had to work.  Ross basically begged her to come, but she held her ground, until Phoebe told her she was in love with him and she had her great idea to go tell him 2 second before his wedding.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Katy M said:

and she had her great idea to go tell him 2 second before his wedding.

And then after he said her name, whispered to someone “should I go up there?”

🤦‍♂️

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

No, she got an invitation.  Ross and Emily discussed it, she thought it would be awkward, but ultimately left it up to him. Rachel declined the invitation because she thought it would be weird, but just said she had to work.  Ross basically begged her to come, but she held her ground, until Phoebe told her she was in love with him and she had her great idea to go tell him 2 second before his wedding.

 

23 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

And then after he said her name, whispered to someone “should I go up there?”

🤦‍♂️

See, this is why even though Rachel didn’t ultimately do anything, I still don’t consider her an innocent party in the whole matter.

And she could have had the decency and good sense to turn down the plane ticket Ross gave her. She JUST TOLD him that he ought to still go on the trip to get his head on straight, and yet jumped at the opportunity to go on his honeymoon…and then once again got to once again play the victim when Ross missed the plane to chase after Emily.

[chitowngirl]

I thought the reason she went to Greece with Ross was that she was on standby for flights and thought she could get a flight to NYC sooner if she went to Greece. Though I would think she would have a better chance in London as I would guess flights to JFK or Newark would be more plentiful than Greece to NYC…

And then she stayed in Greece! Must be nice to have a job where you can takeoff at the last minute for a long vacay!

Edited September 19, 2023 by chitowngirl

[Bort]

On the subject of not inviting exes to a wedding…

Dear Cousin Frannie: Not wanting to invite Monica to your wedding because she once dated the groom is understandable. But don’t tell her there’s limited seating and then still invite her parents and brother +1. Just invite the parents, it’s way less insulting.

[chitowngirl]

22 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

On the subject of not inviting exes to a wedding…

Dear Cousin Frannie: Not wanting to invite Monica to your wedding because she once dated the groom is understandable. But don’t tell her there’s limited seating and then still invite her parents and brother +1. Just invite the parents, it’s way less insulting.

Monica is pissed she didn’t get invited (rightly so), but she hasn’t seen cousin Frannie since she lost all her weight (so years), but somehow Franny knew her husband dated her… But Monica harping how close they were and they are BLOOD relatives was a bit much. But inviting Ross and not her is a petty move.

[peacheslatour]

29 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

On the subject of not inviting exes to a wedding…

Dear Cousin Frannie: Not wanting to invite Monica to your wedding because she once dated the groom is understandable. But don’t tell her there’s limited seating and then still invite her parents and brother +1. Just invite the parents, it’s way less insulting.

When my SIL got married, she only had two bridesmaids, me and a girl my husband used to sleep with. I just went ahead with it because, I was no saint either and who am I to judge?

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I thought the reason she went to Greece with Ross was that she was on standby for flights and thought she could get a flight to NYC sooner if she went to Greece. Though I would think she would have a better chance in London as I would guess flights to JFK or Newark would be more plentiful than Greece to NYC…

And then she stayed in Greece! Must be nice to have a job where you can takeoff at the last minute for a long vacay!

No. Her purpose was to go with him on vacay.  And while she could def get to Greece faster than JFK, Greece is in the opposite direction, so wouldn't make a lot of sense to me.

41 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

On the subject of not inviting exes to a wedding…

Dear Cousin Frannie: Not wanting to invite Monica to your wedding because she once dated the groom is understandable. But don’t tell her there’s limited seating and then still invite her parents and brother +1. Just invite the parents, it’s way less insulting.

Here's what I don't get.  I understand that she didn't get an invitation, but she knew she was getting married.  So, did she see an announcement?  Did her parents tell her?  How could she know her cousin was getting married and not know the groom's name?  Did Ross not know she dated that guy?  He had an invitation.  Groom's name would have been on that.  And did the DJ not announce the bride and groom when they arrived at the reception?  It just seems a little odd to me that Monica didn't know who the groom was until she went up to talk to the bride.

13 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

When my SIL got married, she only had two bridesmaids, me and a girl my husband used to sleep with. I just went ahead with it because, I was no saint either and who am I to judge?

But, that wasn't your wedding.  

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

How could she know her cousin was getting married and not know the groom's name?  Did Ross not know she dated that guy?  He had an invitation.  Groom's name would have been on that.

Ross not recognizing his name I can buy, I doubt he knows the name of every single guy Monica has ever dated. And I can even buy that Monica didn’t know based on not getting an invitation and not actually seeing it. But you would still think that the subject would’ve come up in her and Ross’s little road trip to the reception. “By the way, who the hell is Frannie marrying?”

[sistermagpie]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And she could have had the decency and good sense to turn down the plane ticket Ross gave her. She JUST TOLD him that he ought to still go on the trip to get his head on straight, and yet jumped at the opportunity to go on his honeymoon…and then once again got to once again play the victim when Ross missed the plane to chase after Emily.

I think a big difference there is that Rachel is acting like what she admits she is: a person interested in getting Ross back. Her recognizing that it would be too selfish even for her to dump that on him right before his wedding is one thing, but of course she can't be trusted to keep turning Ross down every time he has a bad idea.

She's not innocent at all in the sense that she really doesn't care about Ross, but it's his behavior that's erratic. She's basically acting like a person who wants something, but has some limits on how far she should go to get it. (She won't ambush him before the wedding, but she won't turn down the invite to Greece when he offers it.) He's insisting that he just wants this Emily person while saying Rachel's name and then inviting her to Greece and only abandoning her on the plane when he gets caught. Which actually did make Rachel a victim, if only in a comic way that wasn't on the level of Emily. 

I think I just appreciated that it wasn't about Rachel and Emily fighting over Ross. Both women were willing to let the other one have him if Ross wanted the other one. He couldn't fully choose. Emily wouldn't have felt any better about things if Rachel had rejected Ross's offer to go to Greece. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by sistermagpie

[mojoween]

The one part of the wedding debacle that has always been irritating is more the direction given, I think?  When everyone is milling about after and Phoebe calls, Rachel takes the phone and says “ninth grade.  The obsession starts…” and her line readings are just so grating there.

This afternoon I was following the cat into the kitchen to get him his afternoon soup and I said “one second, I need to turn on the teevee.  Stevie, the teevee.”  And then I cracked myself up.  The cat, he was ambivalent.

[Spartan Girl]

On 10/3/2023 at 4:19 PM, mojoween said:

The one part of the wedding debacle that has always been irritating is more the direction given, I think?  When everyone is milling about after and Phoebe calls, Rachel takes the phone and says “ninth grade.  The obsession starts…” and her line readings are just so grating there.

Further proof of why I couldn’t stand her.

[Danny Franks]

So I just watched TOW The Ick Factor, and I guess this is part of shows aging badly, but Young Ethan is way less icky than Rachel's storyline that involves Ross being insanely jealous of her dreams, while Rachel completely freaks out Joey and Chandler by saying their dream threesome with her involved some - shock! horror! - gay stuff.

But then it's okay, because Rachel apparently dreams of Ross too, and he can leave all smugly. I prefer to believe she was awake, had recognised his complete inability to deal with her dreaming about the other two but not him, so she just pretended to salve his fragile ego.

Chandler's workplace stuff was always such a drag, as well. It felt like something out of a Dilbert cartoon (but with less complete insanity from the creator).

[peacheslatour]

Quote

So I just watched TOW The Ick Factor, 

I'd say the ickiest one with the ickiest factor was Ross and Elizabeth, coming in second would be Rachel and Tag. And tangentially Phoebe's brother and his teacher. Just Ick all over the place.

[Katy M]

On 10/5/2023 at 5:00 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'd say the ickiest one with the ickiest factor was Ross and Elizabeth, coming in second would be Rachel and Tag. And tangentially Phoebe's brother and his teacher. Just Ick all over the place.

Oddly enough Ross and Elizabeth didn't bother me all that much.  She wasn't in his class any more when they started dating, and she, the younger one, was the one that instigated it.

[Bort]

Frank Jr. and Alice didn’t bother me either because while he was her student when he was in high school, it seemed to be implied that their relationship didn’t start up until after he’d graduated.

On 10/5/2023 at 1:49 PM, Danny Franks said:

Rachel's storyline that involves Ross being insanely jealous of her dreams

I actually can’t believe that in season 1 it A, took so long for the guys to pick up on Ross’s Rachel lurve and B, that the gals never caught on. Because Ross would get so absolutely huffy about anything going on in Rachel’s love life, no matter how tangential, like the dream thing. 

[andidante]

13 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Frank Jr. and Alice didn’t bother me either because while he was her student when he was in high school, it seemed to be implied that their relationship didn’t start up until after he’d graduated.

I actually can’t believe that in season 1 it A, took so long for the guys to pick up on Ross’s Rachel lurve and B, that the gals never caught on. Because Ross would get so absolutely huffy about anything going on in Rachel’s love life, no matter how tangential, like the dream thing. 

I liked Frank and Alice too but I love that actress! Ross was so irritating; he didn't even try to be subtle about his lurve. LOL

[princelina]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Frank Jr. and Alice didn’t bother me either because while he was her student when he was in high school, it seemed to be implied that their relationship didn’t start up until after he’d graduated.

Well he did call her Mrs. Knight when they first fell in love 😄. But I always loved those two.

[Bort]

Frank Jr. and Alice had such great chemistry too, they were so cute.

[JustHereForFood]

16 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Frank Jr. and Alice didn’t bother me either because while he was her student when he was in high school, it seemed to be implied that their relationship didn’t start up until after he’d graduated.

I find it gross. There's no way that power imbalance is ok just because she's no longer his teacher.

[Bort]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

I find it gross. There's no way that power imbalance is ok just because she's no longer his teacher.

I find that applies more to Ross and Elizabeth. She was no longer a student in his class but she was still a student at the university he worked. He could still have power over her. But once Frank Jr. graduated, he and Alice were just regular people. He didn’t go to that school anymore, she had no power.

[JustHereForFood]

6 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I find that applies more to Ross and Elizabeth. She was no longer a student in his class but she was still a student at the university he worked. He could still have power over her. But once Frank Jr. graduated, he and Alice were just regular people. He didn’t go to that school anymore, she had no power.

I don't like either situation. But it's different when the younger person is already an adult when the two meet and when they're still a child. 

[bluegirl147]

Frank Jr and Alice and Ross and Elizabeth are examples of storylines I look at differently as time has passed.  At the time I watched those storylines and laughed at the jokes and just went with it.  Now I look at them and think yeah that probably wouldn't be shown the same way now.

[partofme]

The Ross/Elizabeth one really bothers me because I don't understand how he didn't lose his job over it, several people including other professors, students and Elizabeth's father knew about the relationship.   Their relationship was forbidden, so why wasn't he fired?

[JustHereForFood]

19 minutes ago, partofme said:

The Ross/Elizabeth one really bothers me because I don't understand how he didn't lose his job over it, several people including other professors, students and Elizabeth's father knew about the relationship.   Their relationship was forbidden, so why wasn't he fired?

Sitcom immunity?

[partofme]

1 minute ago, JustHereForFood said:

Sitcom immunity?

Yeah but the show itself said that Ross/Elizabeth's relationship was forbidden.  If they didn't want consequences, it should have just been frowned upon like Ross originally thought.

[Bort]

All the Friends did things they should’ve been fired for. Ross having sex with Rachel at the museum and getting caught by a catholic school class and nuns. I lost count of how many fireable offenses Rachel committed at Ralph Lauren. Ironically, the thing she got fired for wasn’t an actual offense. If she didn’t have an no-compete clause, she’s well within her rights to interview for another job.

[Laura Holt]

41 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Frank Jr and Alice and Ross and Elizabeth are examples of storylines I look at differently as time has passed.  At the time I watched those storylines and laughed at the jokes and just went with it.  Now I look at them and think yeah that probably wouldn't be shown the same way now.

The Frank Jr and Alice one creeped me out at the time, and still does.  I hated that they went there, mainly because Frank was never portrayed as being all that bright and it came off, to me, like he was being used by this older woman.  Who, to be fair though, didn't come off as much brighter than he did. 

With Ross and Elizabeth if memory serves I think I was more bothered by the age discrepancies between Rachel and Elizabeth's dad and Monica and Richard.  The student-professor aspect didn't bother me as much as while it is frowned upon most universities in Canada do not actually forbid relationships between two consenting adults. 

At most Ross would have been expected to recuse himself from any decision affecting Elizabeth.  But that said once Ross knew at his university it was forbidden then he should have been fired.  Of course he also should have been fired those times he went ballistic on colleagues but that's another storyline.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Laura Holt

[partofme]

5 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

All the Friends did things they should’ve been fired for. Ross having sex with Rachel at the museum and getting caught by a catholic school class and nuns. I lost count of how many fireable offenses Rachel committed at Ralph Lauren. Ironically, the thing she got fired for wasn’t an actual offense. If she didn’t have an no-compete clause, she’s well within her rights to interview for another job.

I never understood how Rachel got hired at Ralph Lauren in the first place after all the creepy things she did in her interviews and how she kept her job after that.

[peacheslatour]

28 minutes ago, partofme said:

I never understood how Rachel got hired at Ralph Lauren in the first place after all the creepy things she did in her interviews and how she kept her job after that.

Did she even go to college? The thing that really drove this home for me was when she was buying all that stuff at Pottery Barn and she couldn't come up with a legit period for the pieces she bought other then Colonial times and Yore. I am a designer. I went to design school and we had to take mandatory art history classes, even if you were majoring in clothing design. How could she be that clueless and get a job at Ralph Lauren?

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I don't like either situation. But it's different when the younger person is already an adult when the two meet and when they're still a child. 

And Frank Jr. still seems like a child, which makes it worse. Obviously they wanted somebody older to create the need for a surrogate, but they could have had him with somebody he had trouble calling by he first name!

42 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

With Ross and Elizabeth if memory serves I think I was more bothered by the age discrepancies between Rachel and Elizabeth's dad and Monica and Richard.  The student-professor aspect didn't bother me as much as while it is frowned upon most universities in Canada do not actually forbid relationships between two consenting adults. 

Yes, the student/professor relationship being understood to be wrong is a relatively recent thing. Not that that makes it any better, imo. 

I always feel relatively alone in not liking Richard, and one of the many things I didn't like was how they made a point of him being an older friend of her parents but then never made age an issue at all. Like he's friends with her parents and Rachel's parents whose age is played for affectionate laughs, and this guy is friends with them but has none of that. There's no generational clashes at all. His ex wife never disputes being in total agreement that they were just staying together for the kids, and his kids aren't bothered at all by him dating a girl who was younger than them in grade school.

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Did she even go to college? The thing that really drove this home for me was when she was buying all that stuff at Pottery Barn and she couldn't come up with a legit period for the pieces she bought other then Colonial times and Yore. I am a designer. I went to design school and we had to take mandatory art history classes, even if you were majoring in clothing design. How could she be that clueless and get a job at Ralph Lauren?

In the Thanksgiving flashback ep she's in college, but majoring in psychology because it's closer to parking. So yeah, it's surprising she didn't even think to go to school for anything fashion related at all. 

[Laura Holt]

16 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I always feel relatively alone in not liking Richard, and one of the many things I didn't like was how they made a point of him being an older friend of her parents but then never made age an issue at all. Like he's friends with her parents and Rachel's parents whose age is played for affectionate laughs, and this guy is friends with them but has none of that. There's no generational clashes at all. His ex wife never disputes being in total agreement that they were just staying together for the kids, and his kids aren't bothered at all by him dating a girl who was younger than them in grade school.

I think there was one episode where Monica's parents are aware that Richard is dating a much younger woman and they are amused by it.  Until they find out the "twinkie from the city" is their daughter!   For me the line got drawn when we learn that not only is Richard a friend of Monica's parents, the father of kids she went to school with, but is also  grandfather.  A young grandfather, sure, but still completely far and away out of Monica's age bracket IMO.

[bluegirl147]

46 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

and one of the many things I didn't like was how they made a point of him being an older friend of her parents but then never made age an issue at all.

I didn't have a problem with the age difference but I did find it kind of icky that they knew each other when she was a kid and he was her friend's dad.

 

[Bort]

58 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And Frank Jr. still seems like a child, which makes it worse. Obviously they wanted somebody older to create the need for a surrogate, but they could have had him with somebody he had trouble calling by he first name!

That surrogate storyline only came about when Lisa Kudrow got pregnant. The Frank Jr/Alice thing had already been established and we weren’t ever supposed to see them again after that. The only reason we did is because of needing to write it in a pregnancy.

59 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

In the Thanksgiving flashback ep she's in college, but majoring in psychology because it's closer to parking. So yeah, it's surprising she didn't even think to go to school for anything fashion related at all. 

Rachel switched from psychology because of the lousy parking. We don’t know what she ended up majoring in. 

[princelina]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I always feel relatively alone in not liking Richard, and one of the many things I didn't like was how they made a point of him being an older friend of her parents but then never made age an issue at all. Like he's friends with her parents and Rachel's parents whose age is played for affectionate laughs, and this guy is friends with them but has none of that. There's no generational clashes at all. His ex wife never disputes being in total agreement that they were just staying together for the kids, and his kids aren't bothered at all by him dating a girl who was younger than them in grade school.

I didn't like him for hanging around outside Monica's bedroom in her robe chitchatting with Ross whilst the girls fought over condoms.  Especially the second time!  He should have acted like a grownup and told her they were sleeping at his apartment by themselves! 😄

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, princelina said:

I didn't like him for hanging around outside Monica's bedroom in her robe chitchatting with Ross whilst the girls fought over condoms.  Especially the second time!  He should have acted like a grownup and told her they were sleeping at his apartment by themselves! 😄

I've never understood women buying condoms in the first place. Isn't that the dude's job?

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I've never understood women buying condoms in the first place. Isn't that the dude's job?

You'd think they'd be somewhat aware of the supply situation since both of them were there using them regularly, so why not bring some over, Dr.s?

[JustHereForFood]

1 hour ago, Laura Holt said:

I think there was one episode where Monica's parents are aware that Richard is dating a much younger woman and they are amused by it.  Until they find out the "twinkie from the city" is their daughter!   For me the line got drawn when we learn that not only is Richard a friend of Monica's parents, the father of kids she went to school with, but is also  grandfather.  A young grandfather, sure, but still completely far and away out of Monica's age bracket IMO.

I think that that is a situation that is both A) very gross and B) very believable because people are hypocrites. "Oh, you are dating a woman half your age who could be your daughter? Good for you you sly dog, the sex must be great, we all envy you! Oh wait, she is my baby girl? Now, that is horrible, how dare you?!"

35 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I've never understood women buying condoms in the first place. Isn't that the dude's job?

I think there would be waaay too many unwanted pregnancies and STDs if women left it to men 😒.

[Laura Holt]

5 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

44 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I've never understood women buying condoms in the first place. Isn't that the dude's job?

I think there would be waaay too many unwanted pregnancies and STDs if women left it to men 😒.

Of course it's done for comedic effect but did it ever get discussed why these sexually active young women were not on the pill? I see this all the time on sitcoms (even with long married couples) it's like there is no other form of birth control other than condoms or a vasectomy.

[JustHereForFood]

2 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

Of course it's done for comedic effect but did it ever get discussed why these sexually active young women were not on the pill? I see this all the time on sitcoms (even with long married couples) it's like there is no other form of birth control other than condoms or a vasectomy.

Do we know they were not? It's a long time since I watched it, but condoms are a good idea even if you are on the pill, due to a number of STDs. Especially if one is as active as people on TV (no judgment meant regarding promiscuity, just that it's a good thing to do it safely).

[partofme]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I've never understood women buying condoms in the first place. Isn't that the dude's job?

Maybe because I was in jr high in the height of the AIDS epidemic, but it was drilled into us girls that we should be buying and always using condoms.  Of course the guy should also have them.

[peacheslatour]

48 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I think that that is a situation that is both A) very gross and B) very believable because people are hypocrites. "Oh, you are dating a woman half your age who could be your daughter? Good for you you sly dog, the sex must be great, we all envy you! Oh wait, she is my baby girl? Now, that is horrible, how dare you?!"

I think there would be waaay too many unwanted pregnancies and STDs if women left it to men 😒.

It's easy. No condom? No sex.

[Bort]

Yeah, as a Gen Xer, we girls were brought up to not leave it to the men to have condoms. Take charge of one’s own safety and so forth.

Now, I find that whole condoms scene ridiculous because Richard and Ross live alone. Who wants to bang and share a bedroom wall with others that are banging when you don’t have to?

[Katy M]

52 minutes ago, Laura Holt said:

Of course it's done for comedic effect but did it ever get discussed why these sexually active young women were not on the pill?

Maybe they didn't want the side effects.

[Laura Holt]

9 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Who wants to bang and share a bedroom wall with others that are banging when you don’t have to?

Especially when it's your sibling on the other side of that wall.  I mean how mature of them, I guess, but I just didn't need to be in the next room when one of my siblings was having sex.  

[partofme]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Maybe they didn't want the side effects.

They might have been on the pill.  It was stressed to us in junior high health classes that the pill doesn't protect against AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases and that you should always use a condom unless you are in a long term relationship and both parties have been tested.  I always thought tv shows having people use condoms is kind of a psa and just good advice.

[Laura Holt]

32 minutes ago, partofme said:

It was stressed to us in junior high health classes that the pill doesn't protect against AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases and that you should always use a condom unless you are in a long term relationship and both parties have been tested.

This is the thing I meant.  I find it is the go to birth control method on TV, especially sitcoms, even with married couples.  I think more because there are scenarios you can write that are funny (or meant to be) and that just doesn't work with the pill.

[princelina]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Now, I find that whole condoms scene ridiculous because Richard and Ross live alone. Who wants to bang and share a bedroom wall with others that are banging when you don’t have to?

Yeah this is what I was talking about.  It was ridiculous for all of them, but expecially Dr. Richard!

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Laura Holt said:

Of course he also should have been fired those times he went ballistic on colleagues but that's another storyline.

Except for the guy who ate HIS SANDWICH. Totally justified.

[christie]

7 hours ago, princelina said:

I didn't like him for hanging around outside Monica's bedroom in her robe chitchatting with Ross whilst the girls fought over condoms.  Especially the second time!  He should have acted like a grownup and told her they were sleeping at his apartment by themselves! 😄

I never understood this. Richard and Ross both had their own place; why did they never go there? Who wants to have sex with their sibling in the next room? Also, who keeps condoms in the bathroom? Most people keep them in the bedside table. It just occurred to me that they could have gone across the hall and gotten some condoms fron Joey; you know that he would have had boxes of them.