Friends - General Discussion

[princelina]

To me Dermot Mulroney was just another person dropped into the cast that I had no reason to care about.  And it may be an Unpopular Opinion, but I thought Frank and Alice were hilarious! 😄

[perkie1968]

7 hours ago, princelina said:

And it may be an Unpopular Opinion, but I thought Frank and Alice were hilarious

Is it really unpopular??  I loved them as well.  The first thought that came into my head when I read this was the scene in Phoebe's apartment when they're trying to break up but then they're all over each other!!

[Bort]

I don’t feel like Dermot Mulroney counts as a love interest, as he was a rather obvious 2-3 episode stuntcast, just like Bruce Willis doesn’t count, nor does Elle Macpherson for Joey. The only stuntcast love interest that counts is Tom Selleck, because he was there for a longer period of time.

[perkie1968]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:43 PM, AgathaC said:

I appreciated that one! Given some of the insults Rachel threw at Monica (and Chandler) in that fight, Rachel deserved more.

Monica:  She never gives me my mesages

Rachel:  Oh, who's calling you?  Your Mom?  Or Chandler?  Or you mom? Or Chandler

Phoebe (miffed): Hey, I call her

 

I laughe every time at Phoebe's annoyance.  

[Spartan Girl]

So they’re having a Labor/Childbirth Day marathon on TBS. Is it wrong that I’m annoyed at how Phoebe diffuses the Susan/Ross feud by bringing up her crummy childhood and saying that the baby is lucky to have three parents that love him so much they’re fighting over him? I get what she’s trying to do, but the kids in the middle of divorce custody battles would like a word, because tug-of-war isn’t a healthy way to show love.

Didn't have one scrap of pity for Carol getting fed up with Ross and Carol. She literally caused that situation in the first place; it’s laser-induced karma.

[Bort]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Didn't have one scrap of pity for Carol getting fed up with Ross and Carol. She literally caused that situation in the first place; it’s laser-induced karma.

I did in that Carol shouldn’t be dealing with that kind of stress while trying to push a baby out. But otherwise, yeah, how about telling Susan to dial the misandry down just a tad, Carol? I really think she should’ve been reigning Susan in a bit, that kind of constant open hostility to Ross was completely uncalled for.

[perkie1968]

57 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

that kind of constant open hostility to Ross was completely uncalled for.

Oy, don't get me started on them wanting Susan's last name in there.  

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

I did in that Carol shouldn’t be dealing with that kind of stress while trying to push a baby out.

That was something she really should have thought about before sleeping with two people at the same time. Yeah, I said it, and I’m not sorry.

[Quof]

At least it wasn't a Mamma Mia situation, where the parentage of the child was in doubt.

[mojoween]

For 19 years I’ve been annoyed because it is just not possible to get to Newark from JFK in 20 minutes, until I JUST realized that Ross and Phoebe made it because the plane had to be deplaned to add the extra phalanges so it was late taking off.  Duh.

[Bort]

Good thing Phoebe was driving since we all know Rachel’s plane would’ve had time to make it all the way to Paris if Ross drove.

[sistermagpie]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

That was something she really should have thought about before sleeping with two people at the same time. Yeah, I said it, and I’m not sorry.

It's amazing the way Susan actins like Ross is the one who did something to her instead of vice versa and Carol just actins liek they're squabbling siblings.

And her sleeping with Ross and getting pregnant when she's on her way out to Susan will never not seem suspcious to me, particularly when they're talking about giving the kid a hyphenated name that doesn't include Ross!

[peacheslatour]

[Spartan Girl]

You know I might have had a smidgen more respect for Rachel if she hadn’t played the victim over Emily’s ultimatum. Like how dare the woman whose wedding you tried to sabotage not want you around her husband? She could have acknowledged that much instead of laying all the blame on Ross.

[voiceover]

Yeah I read the James Brooks thing and my first thought was, Up yours, old man.  I liked Helen Baxendale before she was cast as Emily, and I liked Emily and Ross together (don’t even get me started on Brooks’ “not as funny as Rachel” — Julie, Elizabeth, Mona, and Charlie were hardly comic relief (even though Aisha Tyler had a background in stand-up, the writers didn’t tap into that).

Emily had that wonderful response to Ross’s ceremony plans (“…and if it rains…”  “Then we’ll get wet!”), proving — not for the first time — that until the vows blunder, she was really game for anything.

The series’ writers turning her into a villain angered me as much as when the SATC writers hung that fucking post-it note on Ron Livingston’s Jack Berger.  Two writers in a relationship was always going to be problematic,  but Berger was one of my favorites until that moment of “Let’s have the good guy do something unbelievably awful so we can get a plot point out of it!”

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, voiceover said:

 

Yeah I read the James Brooks thing and my first thought was, Up yours, old man.  I liked Helen Baxendale before she was cast as Emily, and I liked Emily and Ross together (don’t even get me started on Brooks’ “not as funny as Rachel” — Julie, Elizabeth, Mona, and Charlie were hardly comic relief (even though Aisha Tyler had a background in stand-up, the writers didn’t tap into that).

Emily had that wonderful response to Ross’s ceremony plans (“…and if it rains…”  “Then we’ll get wet!”), proving — not for the first time — that until the vows blunder, she was really game for anything.

 

As much as I hate Ross, even I have to admit that he was excited to get married and genuinely wanted to make it work with Emily, even if he went about it the wrong way. It might have lasted longer had Rachel not showed up at the wedding and caused his Freudian slip.

And unlike Rachel, he DID own up to his screwup at the wedding. I have to give him that too. Hell, it might have gone a long way to changing how I feel about him if instead of dragging his feet over Emily’s ultimatum, he had the growth to realize that he couldn’t stay friends with Rachel anymore, especially when her feelings for him seem to change every five minutes.

Despite the show’s efforts, I don’t see Emily as the villain. When she finally ended it with Ross, she wasn’t being spiteful, she just saw the inevitable and took the mature way out (the way she should have done at the wedding instead of Stepford Smiling through the ceremony, punching Ross in the stomach then climbing out through the bathroom window at the reception). Sure, asking Ross to sell his furniture was petty, but so was the gang acting like Ross wanting to make his marriage work was a big inconvenience to their lives and blaming her instead of calling out Rachel for her part in all this.

[Bort]

I’m sorry, but Rachel didn’t actually do anything. Ross invited her, she initially declined, but then changed her mind and decided to attend. Yes, we know what her intentions were, and Ross found out those intentions eventually, but I doubt Emily ever was told about that part, and the bottom line is that Rachel wished Ross well and sedately sat there. What happened is the important part: Ross said her name at the ceremony. I give him props for owning it and jumping through whatever hoop he could to try and fix it, but Emily definitely should’ve halted the ceremony. The mess that ended up turning into was Ross and Emily’s fault.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Despite the show’s efforts, I don’t see Emily as the villain. When she finally ended it with Ross, she wasn’t being spiteful, she just saw the inevitable and took the mature way out (the way she should have done at the wedding instead of Stepford Smiling through the ceremony, punching Ross in the stomach then climbing out through the bathroom window at the reception). 

That would have been IT for me. I wouldn't have gone through with the wedding. I don't know what the writers were thinking, trying to make them work it out after that. And then they turned her into this petty bitch, to what end? To make Ross and Rachel look better? Another thing I have a problem with is what did she expect to happen when Rachel is Ross's sister's roommate? There may have been times when I shouted "Ross, go home!" He is always at his sister's house. If I were Monica, that would drive me nuts. 

[Spartan Girl]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I’m sorry, but Rachel didn’t actually do anything. Ross invited her, she initially declined, but then changed her mind and decided to attend. Yes, we know what her intentions were, and Ross found out those intentions eventually, but I doubt Emily ever was told about that part, and the bottom line is that Rachel wished Ross well and sedately sat there. 

The only reason she didn't slip away quietly was because Ross saw her before she could and that was the only thing to do. The second Ross said her name at the altar, all her resolve went out the window and it was all "Ross said my name, he must still love me" all over again.

Would Ross have still said her name if she hadn't showed up at the last minute? I honestly don't know. His focus up til that point had been all on Emily and he hadn't seemed to give Rachel another thought until he saw her.

No, Emily didn't know why Rachel showed up at the wedding, but Ross, Joey, Chandler, Monica, and Phoebe damn well all did, but once Emily issued her ultimatum, they all collectively decided to ignore that because otherwise that would have meant admitting Emily wasn't just being crazy and that her instincts about Rachel were right on the money. Better to act like Rachel and the rest of them were just victims of Ross's screwup and Emily's jealousy than to admit that they might be the part of problem.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[FilmTVGeek80]

49 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

The only reason she didn't slip away quietly was because Ross saw her before she could and that was the only thing to do. The second Ross said her name at the altar, all her resolve went out the window and it was all "Ross said my name, he must still love me" all over again.

Would Ross have still said her name if she hadn't showed up at the last minute? I honestly don't know. His focus up til that point had been all on Emily and he hadn't seemed to give Rachel another thought until he saw her.

No, Emily didn't know why Rachel showed up at the wedding, but Ross, Joey, Chandler, Monica, and Phoebe damn well all did, but once Emily issued her ultimatum, they all collectively decided to ignore that because otherwise that would have meant admitting Emily wasn't just being crazy and that her instincts about Rachel were right on the money. Better to act like Rachel and the rest of them were just victims of Ross's screwup and Emily's jealousy than to admit that they might be the part of problem.

It’s still not Rachel’s fault. Yeah, Ross saw her, but she still could have gone through with her plan, but she CHOSE not to. And, what normal person who’s in love with someone wouldn’t question what that person saying their name at the altar meant. She still didn’t go after Ross then. His saying her name isn’t her fault. Late or not, she was still an invited guest.

No, we’ll never know if he would have said her name under different circumstances, but I doubt it would have made a difference. There’s no way he would have said Phoebe’s name if she had showed up unexpectedly. I think him saying Rachel’s name was his subconscious giving him a clue that he wasn’t ready to marry Emily, no matter how much he had convinced himself he was.

Of course the others all knew about Rachel’s feelings for Ross. None of them thought Emily was crazy about that. But they did have an issue with her trying to control every aspect of Ross’s life. They were going to respect Ross’s decision until Emily made the other crazy demands. Also, they were Ross and Rachel’s friends. They didn’t have any obligations to Emily or to be happy with their group dynamic changing, making their lives more difficult.

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by FilmTVGeek80

[MadyGirl1987]

I will never not love Hugh Lauries take on the matter... FWIW; I think Rachel was wrong to go with the intent of telling Ross how she feels, even if she never did. Intent means alot, and what good would be done by telling a guy on his wedding day that you love him? Just another reason I hated Ross and Rachel together; they always seemed to only ever want to be together when the other was with someone else and were extremely toxic and posessive towards other partners the other had(i.e. Julie).

[Bort]

Intent does not matter to me. For instance, Monica originally intended to sleep with Joey and ended up with Chandler instead. Hell, the show even covered this point when Chandler found out about it. The important part is that Monica and Chandler ended up having a great relationship, despite what her original intention was.

[partofme]

26 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

Intent does not matter to me. For instance, Monica originally intended to sleep with Joey and ended up with Chandler instead. Hell, the show even covered this point when Chandler found out about it. The important part is that Monica and Chandler ended up having a great relationship, despite what her original intention was.

To me this is just rewritten history.  There's no reason at the time that Monica would have been looking for Joey,  he'd already announced to the whole room he'd be spending the night with Felicity.  I always figured Monica and Chandler sleeping together came more organically from her complaining about how she looks like Ross's mom and Chandler says she's the most beautiful woman in the room.

[Spartan Girl]

And those are two different situations anyway.

[Bort]

I can hardly come up with an exact same scenario to compare the two. All I can do is point out another situation where intent didn’t matter vis a vis the action taken.

[bluegirl147]

I don't fault Emily for wanting Ross to not see Rachel again.  However it wasn't a realistic ask.  Rachel lived with Ross's sister.  Was Ross never going to come to his sister's apartment? Was Ross not going to be able to celebrate events in Monica's life like her wedding or her having children? Events where Rachel would most likely be. Emily was never going to trust Ross again.  But by asking him not to see Rachel Emily was trying to convince herself Rachel was the problem when in fact Ross was the problem.

[MadyGirl1987]

I think it would be more realistic and acceptable if she asked Ross to not be alone with Rachel, but yeah, it is unrealistic to ask him to never see him again. 

[Spartan Girl]

47 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I don't fault Emily for wanting Ross to not see Rachel again.  However it wasn't a realistic ask.  Rachel lived with Ross's sister.  Was Ross never going to come to his sister's apartment? Was Ross not going to be able to celebrate events in Monica's life like her wedding or her having children? Events where Rachel would most likely be. Emily was never going to trust Ross again.  But by asking him not to see Rachel Emily was trying to convince herself Rachel was the problem when in fact Ross was the problem.

And Emily did ultimately realize that, which was why she ended things.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[MadyGirl1987]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And Emily did ultimately realize that, which was why she ended things.

Good for her, but I wish she wouldn’t have gone through with the wedding. That should have been proof Ross wasn’t over Rachel, assuming she knew their history between each other. It’s been a while since I rewatched, so I’m not sure what she knew about their relationship. Either way, having your fiancé say someone else’s name at the alter would at the very least be cause to take them off to the side and see what was going on.

[Spartan Girl]

We all eat on Ross being a Nice Guy, Gunther is an absolute creep. I hate that it’s played off for laughs.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

We all eat on Ross being a Nice Guy, Gunther is an absolute creep. I hate that it’s played off for laughs.

Didn't he tell someone who wouldn't know any better that he was Rachel's boyfriend? Emily perhaps, before she went back to England?

I much preferred Gunther as the no-nonsense, put-upon manager:

"Rachel, remind me to review with you which pot is regular and which is decaf."

"Can't I just look at the handles?"

"You would think."

[Guest]

I thought Emily was a bit of a bridezilla at times (such as the insistence about the wedding venue) but I never saw her as the villain.  Even aside from the wrong name issue, she eventually shows up to her fly out for her honeymoon and finds her husband leaving for the honeymoon with the lady whose name he says at the altar?  Like, Ross..... how stupid can you get.

[Spartan Girl]

5 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

Didn't he tell someone who wouldn't know any better that he was Rachel's boyfriend? Emily perhaps, before she went back to England?

I much preferred Gunther as the no-nonsense, put-upon manager:

"Rachel, remind me to review with you which pot is regular and which is decaf."

"Can't I just look at the handles?"

"You would think."

That’s right, he was her boss. Ew that makes it even worse.

[sistermagpie]

On 9/14/2023 at 9:44 AM, kariyaki said:

I’m sorry, but Rachel didn’t actually do anything. Ross invited her, she initially declined, but then changed her mind and decided to attend. Yes, we know what her intentions were, and Ross found out those intentions eventually, but I doubt Emily ever was told about that part, and the bottom line is that Rachel wished Ross well and sedately sat there. What happened is the important part: Ross said her name at the ceremony. I give him props for owning it and jumping through whatever hoop he could to try and fix it, but Emily definitely should’ve halted the ceremony. The mess that ended up turning into was Ross and Emily’s fault.

Yeah, I just can't blame Rachel for what Ross did. She was terrible for what she was planning to do, but faced with the actual situation she realized she was being terrible and wished him well. After that she was a guest that Ross had invited. That's all I felt like could be asked of her. If her being there made Ross say her name, that just showed Ross wasn't ready to marry Emily however little he talked about Rachel before she got there.

On 9/14/2023 at 12:09 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Would Ross have still said her name if she hadn't showed up at the last minute? I honestly don't know. His focus up til that point had been all on Emily and he hadn't seemed to give Rachel another thought until he saw her.

But that's still all on Ross, who invited Rachel to begin with. 

And let's not forget his dumb idea of taking Rachel on his honeymoon trip when he ran into her at the airport as if that wasn't putting a nail in the coffin. Rachel's changing her mind about Ross was annoying on her part, but there's good reason Emily didn't see Rachel as being the problem, iirc. (That is, it's not like she saw Rachel scheming to get Ross back--she just saw Ross still wanting her.)

Emily should have just ended the wedding right there or at least come to her senses right after it. And when she showed up at the airport and Ross was going off with Rachel she should have really known it was done. It wasn't fair they made her start making unreasonable demands that were never going to help, but they were unreasonable. Of course his friends were going to be annoyed with her demands even though it was Ross's fault. I thought his scolding his friends about not knowing what it took to make a marriage work was rich, in fact. Because the only reason her demands weren't crazy was because of how clearly Ross proved he couldn't make the marriage work. 

On 9/14/2023 at 2:35 PM, partofme said:

To me this is just rewritten history.  There's no reason at the time that Monica would have been looking for Joey,  he'd already announced to the whole room he'd be spending the night with Felicity.  I always figured Monica and Chandler sleeping together came more organically from her complaining about how she looks like Ross's mom and Chandler says she's the most beautiful woman in the room.

I really hated it when they did that episode where Monica said she was there to see Joey. Going from Chandler's being nice to her at the wedding to them waking up in bed together was perfect. The story of Monica deciding to sleep with Joey to feel better was just stupid and not anything she would have done anyway, and it ruined the vague idea I imagined for how they orginically got together.

[Spartan Girl]

Just because Rachel didn’t actually do anything doesn’t mean Emily was wrong not to want her around Ross. And the fact that Ross couldn’t quit her was the wake-up call Emily needed to do what she should have done on the wedding and break it off. To be fair, she WAS ready to do that after Ross invited Rachel on the honeymoon flight**…but then Ross sucked her back in with all his love bombing (and harassing her relatives).

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Emily should have just ended the wedding right there or at least come to her senses right after it. And when she showed up at the airport and Ross was going off with Rachel she should have really known it was done. It wasn't fair they made her start making unreasonable demands that were never going to help, but they were unreasonable. Of course his friends were going to be annoyed with her demands even though it was Ross's fault. I thought his scolding his friends about not knowing what it took to make a marriage work was rich, in fact. Because the only reason her demands weren't crazy was because of how clearly Ross proved he couldn't make the marriage work. 

Let’s be real: the only reason the show didn’t have Emily just leave the wedding with her dignity intact was so that the show could basically throw her character under the bus and the gang could act like Ross and Rachel were the victims of the Clingy Jealous Shrew Wife instead of calling out Ross and Rachel’s toxic merry-go-round relationship (and how the gang enabled that). And they couldn’t even leave Emily alone after that: they had to go and crap on her more by having her get cold feet and call Ross on the eve of her remarriage. Ugh.

It was the same case with the infamous end to Ted/Robin/Victoria debacle on HIMYM, but let’s not reopen that wound…

**Yes, asking Rachel to come on his honeymoon WAS a stupid and shitty thing to do, worse than his altar slip. Even if Emily hadn’t showed up to witness it, you don’t take someone else on your honeymoon. Especially if you are technically married. I mean, yeah, Barry did kind of the same thing, but unlike Emily, Rachel didn’t actually go through with the wedding, so she couldn’t exactly play the victim.

[FilmTVGeek80]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Just because Rachel didn’t actually do anything doesn’t mean Emily was wrong not to want her around Ross. And the fact that Ross couldn’t quit her was the wake-up call Emily needed to do what she should have done on the wedding and break it off. To be fair, she WAS ready to do that after Ross invited Rachel on the honeymoon flight**…but then Ross sucked her back in with all his love bombing (and harassing her relatives).

Let’s be real: the only reason the show didn’t have Emily just leave the wedding with her dignity intact was so that the show could basically throw her character under the bus and the gang could act like Ross and Rachel were the victims of the Clingy Jealous Shrew Wife instead of calling out Ross and Rachel’s toxic merry-go-round relationship (and how the gang enabled that). And they couldn’t even leave Emily alone after that: they had to go and crap on her more by having her get cold feet and call Ross on the eve of her remarriage. Ugh.

It was the same case with the infamous end to Ted/Robin/Victoria debacle on HIMYM, but let’s not reopen that wound…

**Yes, asking Rachel to come on his honeymoon WAS a stupid and shitty thing to do, worse than his altar slip. Even if Emily hadn’t showed up to witness it, you don’t take someone else on your honeymoon. Especially if you are technically married. I mean, yeah, Barry did kind of the same thing, but unlike Emily, Rachel didn’t actually go through with the wedding, so she couldn’t exactly play the victim.

Ross being around Rachel wasn’t Emily’s wake-up call. It was Ross pointing out that she can’t know where he is at all times and if she couldn’t trust him at all, then they weren’t going to work. That seemed like more of a mutual ending then Emily breaking it off. And Ross did not love bomb.  It takes more than just sending a lot of gifts for that to be accurate. Ross didn’t hypnotize her or force her to take him back. That was her decision.

And let’s be real, the only reason they had Emily go through with the wedding was because the writers needed something to keep Ross & Rachel a part since they had the asinine idea that they couldn’t reunite until the last second. 
 

 

On 9/14/2023 at 1:15 PM, MadyGirl1987 said:

I will never not love Hugh Lauries take on the matter... FWIW; I think Rachel was wrong to go with the intent of telling Ross how she feels, even if she never did. Intent means alot, and what good would be done by telling a guy on his wedding day that you love him? Just another reason I hated Ross and Rachel together; they always seemed to only ever want to be together when the other was with someone else and were extremely toxic and posessive towards other partners the other had(i.e. Julie).

Well, the good for Rachel would have been if he had changed his mind. 
 

Intent means a lot, but it’s not everything. What you ultimately do matters more IMO. Like, let’s say I’m thinking of cheating on my spouse. Just thinking about it isn’t necessarily wrong. But if I take the extra step and plan a rendezvous with someone else, then it is. But if I change my mind and don’t go through with it, I think that matters more, especially if I change my mind because I realize how wrong it is and not because I get caught. 
 

And, no, it’s not true they only wanted to be together when they were with other people.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

And Ross did not love bomb.  It takes more than just sending a lot of gifts for that to be accurate. Ross didn’t hypnotize her or force her to take him back. That was her decision.

Yeah, he did. It's his signature move when he wants attention and to claim some type of ownership. He did the same thing to Rachel when she got the job at Bloomingdales. My god, the flowers, the stuffed animals, the barbershop quartet and bringing in a picnic basket during a work crisis. It's always about attention with Ross.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

And Ross did not love bomb.  It takes more than just sending a lot of gifts for that to be accurate. Ross didn’t hypnotize her or force her to take him back. That was her decision.

 

46 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, he did. It's his signature move when he wants attention and to claim some type of ownership. He did the same thing to Rachel when she got the job at Bloomingdales. My god, the flowers, the stuffed animals, the barbershop quartet and bringing in a picnic basket during a work crisis. It's always about attention with Ross.

This. Love bombing isn’t about hypnotizing or brainwashing a person, it’s about going overboard with romantic gifts and weakening a person with sentimentality. Even if Emily sent back all the roses in pieces, you could tell they had some effect on her when she was angry and vulnerable. And when she called him to tell her to stop bugging all her relatives and he went in on that big speech about how he’d never give up until he talked to him because he loved and missed her, causing her resolve to waver more—that’s the very definition of love bombing.

[sistermagpie]

13 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Just because Rachel didn’t actually do anything doesn’t mean Emily was wrong not to want her around Ross. And the fact that Ross couldn’t quit her was the wake-up call Emily needed to do what she should have done on the wedding and break it off. To be fair, she WAS ready to do that after Ross invited Rachel on the honeymoon flight**…but then Ross sucked her back in with all his love bombing (and harassing her relatives).

Absolutely--but she was right to identify that the person she didn't trust in that situation was Ross and not Rachel. She realized that she didn't have to imagine Rachel trying to get Ross back or anything like that. She couldn't blame Rachel for ruining the wedding just by being there. But Ross saying Rachel's name at the altar and then inviting her on vacation was on Ross.

Not that Rachel might not have gone for it on her side too, obviously. She did originally go to London to tell Ross she loved him and she agreed to go on that honeymoon with him. But Emily was right to know it was Ross she needed to trust and didn't.

[FilmTVGeek80]

21 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

This. Love bombing isn’t about hypnotizing or brainwashing a person, it’s about going overboard with romantic gifts and weakening a person with sentimentality. Even if Emily sent back all the roses in pieces, you could tell they had some effect on her when she was angry and vulnerable. And when she called him to tell her to stop bugging all her relatives and he went in on that big speech about how he’d never give up until he talked to him because he loved and missed her, causing her resolve to waver more—that’s the very definition of love bombing.

“Weakening with sentimentality.” According to that definition everyone throughout the history of time who has tried to apologize for wrongdoing or sent gifts is “love bombing.” The floral industry would probably suffer major losses if people who messed up stopped sending people flowers. How could you tell that Emily’s resolve wavered when she sent the flowers back in pieces & called to tell him it wasn’t working? And if she was moved by the gifts? And? If Ross’s speech caused her to resolve to waver, so what. He made a persuasive argument. There’s nothing wrong with that and it certainly doesn’t mean Emily had no choice in the matter. She wasn’t tricked or lied to. Love bombing is a form of emotional abuse and control. Ross wasn’t trying to control her. If anyone in that scenario was trying to control anyone, it was Emily. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by FilmTVGeek80

[FilmTVGeek80]

22 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, he did. It's his signature move when he wants attention and to claim some type of ownership. He did the same thing to Rachel when she got the job at Bloomingdales. My god, the flowers, the stuffed animals, the barbershop quartet and bringing in a picnic basket during a work crisis. It's always about attention with Ross.

The situations may seem similar, but they’re not. The situation with Rachel was clearly about trying to stake his claim and wasn’t coming from a genuine place of love. With Emily, it was different. He’d screwed up royally and was trying to express his love and remorse. It wasn’t about attention or ownership or trying to control her. Also, I find it hard to call something a “signature move” when it was only done twice.

[peacheslatour]

Just now, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The situations may seem similar, but they’re not. The situation with Rachel was clearly about trying to stake his claim and wasn’t coming from a genuine place of love. With Emily, it was different. He’d screwed up royally and was trying to express his love and remorse. It wasn’t about attention or ownership or trying to control her. Also, I find it hard to call something a “signature move” when it was only done twice.

Yeah, he loved her so much, her couldn't stand being away from Rachel. I have never shipped Ross and Rachel but I wouldn't wish either one of them on anyone else.

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

Yeah, he loved her so much, her couldn't stand being away from Rachel. I have never shipped Ross and Rachel but I wouldn't wish either one of them on anyone else.

What does that have to do with it? Rachel wasn’t just a long-time love, but a long-time friend. That he had difficulty cutting her out of his life, didn’t mean he didn’t love Emily. It wasn’t an everlasting love and I think their engagment was ridiculously rushed, but I do think he loved her.

I wouldn’t wish either one on anyone else, but for different reasons.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

It wasn’t an everlasting love and I think their engagment was ridiculously rushed, but I do think he loved her.

Ross liked being in a relationship. If it hadn't been Emily it would have been someone else. It was a TV show. Of course they were going to drag out the drama.  I would hope in real life if the groom said the wrong name at the altar the bride would at the very least stop things and talk about it with the groom. Especially if the person's name he said was sitting right there and was an ex.

 

[peacheslatour]

28 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Ross liked being in a relationship. If it hadn't been Emily it would have been someone else. It was a TV show. Of course they were going to drag out the drama.  I would hope in real life if the groom said the wrong name at the altar the bride would at the very least stop things and talk about it with the groom. Especially if the person's name he said was sitting right there and was an ex.

 

And had specifically not been invited by the bride.

[Guest]

Just now, peacheslatour said:

And had specifically not been invited by the bride.

Had Rachel specifically not been invited? I didn't think Emily had any issues with Rachel up to that point. The "don't ever see Rachel again" bit came after the wedding and name slip-up. I thought Rachel was invited, and spent a great deal of time trying to decide if she should go or not.

Edited September 18, 2023 by tracyscott76

[peacheslatour]

20 minutes ago, tracyscott76 said:

Had Rachel specifically not been invited? I didn't think Emily had any issues with Rachel up to that point. The "don't ever see Rachel again" bit came after the wedding and name slip-up. I thought Rachel was invited, and spent a great deal of time trying to decide if she should go or not.

Emily just thought it would be awkward for Ross to have her there. I would have thought Rachel would have had the good manners not to attend, especially in gym attire. It was just a mess and it pisses me off way more than it should.

[Spartan Girl]

Love bombing isn’t exclusive to just abusers. It can be anyone that has the tendency to go too far too fast in relationships and go overboard on romantic gestures—people like Ross and Ted Mosby. Everyone might be guilty of it once in their lives, especially if it’s used in the hopes of fixing a broken relationship. But that’s not a good way to win someone over, especially if you don’t want to address the very sources of the problems. Such as the case with Ross and Emily.

It really speaks volumes that nobody thinks anything of Ross expecting Emily to move away from her friends and family for him, but when she expects a similar sacrifice from him, she’s suddenly the villain.

[sistermagpie]

Ross also seemed to go into a panic at the idea of losing something and failing again--like when he didn't want to divorce Rachel after they drunkenly married in Vegas. 

After his mistake, he probably should have sat down and really thought about why he said Rachel's name and what it said about him that he was thinking of taking Rachel on his honeymoon after what he'd done to Emily. Instead it seems like he probably just focused on making it better and not losing Emily.

I don't think he was being manipulative--it wasn't like when he was peeing around Rachel's desk at work (basically), but I feel like his priority was not messing this up rather than really knowing Emily was going to make him happy forever, however happy she made him before that.

[Spartan Girl]

47 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't think he was being manipulative--it wasn't like when he was peeing around Rachel's desk at work (basically), but I feel like his priority was not messing this up rather than really knowing Emily was going to make him happy forever, however happy she made him before that

Oh no, he wasn’t really manipulative in that case. But it would have been better to give Emily space rather than bombard her with romantic gifts and pump her relatives for information after his honeymoon fuckup. Like you said, he should taken time to reflect on himself and why he said Rachel’s name and gave her the plane ticket.

Ross, at best, was just someone who didn’t want to be alone. Carol broke his heart and messed with his head, but while that explains his insecure, asinine behavior, it doesn’t excuse it. And he never did anything to confront his issues or change the way he behaved in relationships. When your divorce lawyer advises therapy, it might be time to listen.