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Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

Lisin

By Lisin
in Characters of Arrow

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

The designers need an intervention.

 

Arsensal/BC. Complicated and bulky for their frames.

 

Speedy. Thick, lace up in the front makes her look like a rag doll.

 

Green Arrow. Looking a little turtle-y, esp on the shoulders.

 

Diggle. DIGGLE.

 

They are doing EBR a favor by not getting her a costume at this point.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Carrie Ann

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Ceylon5

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Actually I don't mind Speedy's costume, personally. But yes to everything else. Arsenal's costume was far too bulky and it overpowered poor Roy. And word to the turtle-ing of the new GA costume. And I loathe the BC costume and the Digneto helmet about equally.

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Pyramid

Pyramid

 

 

Someone simply asked how comfortable the costume was, and Katie’s response was extremely detailed. “It’s actually really comfortable. [Our costume designer was fantastic.] She actually let me have a little bit of input. I just have to say I was really happy I was not fully exposed. I was like, okay I’m not going to be running around in…a boustier. And I saw Caity when she was wearing it and she was freezing all the time […] They let me incorporate the motorcycle gloves, fingerless gloves, and you know, there’s a fishnet. And then a bodysuit underneath and the top of it is sort of like a fishnet. So, they let me put little touches here and there. And I also had a lot to do with the makeup because it’s interesting we had…like six different tests for what the Black Canary was going to look like when I was the Black Canary. And I was suited up in costume […] Everything looks so masculine in the mask because everybody has blacked out eyes and my suit is so masculine and I was like, it just looked very intense with you know, the suit being masculine, then the face and the black […] And I was like can we make this just a little bit more girly, sexy, and not so harsh? And they actually, at first, that was like their least favorite look and then Mark Guggenheim, our makeup artist, and Greg Berlanti pleaded their case and they were like ‘She looks better this way’.”

Speaking of Katie’s Black Canary makeup, she revealed that the dark lipstick was her choice as well, and the color is MAC Vino, which I’ll now be purchasing as soon as possible. She also explained, “It’s actually a whole process and I’m very specific and love minor details. My bottom eyelashes, I don’t know if it even translates, but I’m really into fashion and I just love it. I take my bottom eyelashes and make them, do you remember Twiggy? So, I separate them with a tweezer. It takes like twenty minutes just for the bottom lashes. So, I literary sit there and like tweeze them together so kind of like have that more dramatic effect. But I think it looks cool and it’s funky. Spice things up a bit.”

^^Word salad^^

 

And as an aside, maybe if she spent as much time on LL's motivations, story line, and let's face it her own acting, as she does on lippy, her version of BC/LL might be better received.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Sara's cleavage while impractical is not leaving her fingerprints all over everything like LL's fingerless gloves will. 

 

I still think Sara had the best mask, the added texture gave it more of a mask feel. I don't know why the rest of them didn't get that same type of mask. Their's make them look like ninja turtles and Laurel's is way too big, I don't get the point of her wearing a mask if she's going to cut so much away from the eyes. 

 

The flowing hair and wigs are impractical for both of them. I never leave my hair down to work out, I can't imagine trying to fight someone on a daily basis with my hair in front of my face. 

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HighwayFlower

HighwayFlower

(edited)

KC has a long face that does not seem very suited to a masked look. The long straight blond wig didn't help.

CL has a rounder face and I think a mask worked for her.

I do think KC looks better now that she ditched the wig, but I still don't like her look.

Edited by HighwayFlower
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Delphi

Delphi

The mask actually looks kind of similar to the one Dinah wore in the comics when she was first starting out. So I can kind of handwave that away.

In regards to the hair however, I don't mind that is not pulled back or hidden under a wig. Heroines have been rocking long hair for years and it's not hard for me too suspend my disbelief. What would be even better for me is if they incorporated someone actually grabbing Laurel by her hair and in turn have her face the challenge and come out victorious. They used this method with Faith on Angel and I thought it was realistic and neat.

I still can't get with the costume though. Black Canary has had tons of costumes through the years and they chose not to draw on any of them for inspiration. It's like they picked up a book about Dinah and all they took away from it were "fishnets". I've seen better cosplays than that travesty. (No, seriously http://www.deviantart.com/art/Black-Canary-New-52-Birds-of-Prey-375749241 )

I also like Roy's costumes but think it could most definitely be streamlined. But his isn't nearly as bad.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Getting rid of the wig was a good first step, although impractical for identity concealment. The white blonde wig and white face makeup contrasted with the black mask and black lipstick was just too harsh of a contrast for me. To me it always looked almost clownish, or like some sort of Halloween getup.

As far as the rest of it goes, I just don't like the look of it. It's just too busy - it has too much going on. I always just want to tear it apart and start all over again. Sara's corseted costume was, yes, likely less practical, but I just liked the overall look of it better. (Although I did notice as the season went on, her cleavage started becoming more and more emphasized - I wish they hadn't done that.)

And beyond that, with Sara's costume, I thought they did a good job of invoking the comics BC while not putting her in actual fishnets. Laurel's costume, not so much. The nods are there, but you have to really look for them. It seems like they were going for Not Sara more than Black Canary.

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kismet

kismet

Granted I think LL looks better without the wig, but I also think that was a really awful wig! SL looked good with her wig. I think I would have preferred they kept a wig for LL & just get a better wig. Maybe their wig budget ran out :(

 

As for fighting with long hair, I think its absolutely impractical. However, its been happening in every entertainment medium since they have been writing female warriors. So I don't necessarily expect ARROW to all the sudden become practical in the hair dept. Laura Hurley wrote a defense of the wig (its in the article section) that I actually thought was well written. The wig does provide id concealment & in a fight it could provide a level of protection. If an attacker pulled or cut the wig, the person's own hair would not be damaged. The attacker could pull the wig & the person could still get away. If the attacker pulls the person's own hair it is much harder to get away. If you're gonna have long hair in the field, perhaps a wig makes more sense than just long hair.

 

Personally, I loved the wigs in ALIAS, I thought they made for fun fight scenes. With all of KC's love of fashion, I don't understand why she didn't perhaps ask for more wigs. Maybe this BC could have multiple blond hairdos to rock. But the wig is probably not the weakest link of this outfit. At the end of the day, its a fashion choice. The buckles & the fingerless gloves are just a travesty. They threaten to expose & incriminate LL. For a DA, that is just stupidity.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Sara didn't really even need to hide her fingerprints because Sara Lance was legally declared dead. I don't know if they ever made it official of her not being dead anymore. 

 

Laurel's a DA, she should know to be more careful and want to wear gloves that cover her fingers to not leave her prints on crime scenes. If the SCP were any good at their jobs, finding out her identity would be the easy. 

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lexicon

lexicon

They just posted pics of Hawkman and Hawkgirl in costume, and they look really amazingly good. How can they get that right and then get Laurel's and Diggle's costumes so so wrong?

 

It's all about playing with the shiny new toys now.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

They seriously need to bring in Gail to write an episode. They should bring her on as a consultant in general for their female charecters.

As far as the fingerless gloves, while they shouldn't be fingerless, they look good BUT they shouldve created lace gloves that cover her fingers which would've been the best of both worlds.

Sara in general looked better in her Canary get up then in her civilian mode which is almost the opposite for Laurel. They really shouldn't have given Sara the outfit she had and waited to give it to Laurel. It was clearly more inspired by the comics. They shouldve given her something that was a hybrid of Canary/LoA.

I for one am able to root for Laurel, I enjoy her even though the writers treat her as an afterthought every chance they get. There was no need to turn her into a pill popping drunk just to give her, her "island". Not all heroes need islands, but everything that happened once Oliver/Sara were "dead" should have been considered her island if she needed one. It broke her family apart, it caused her to go to law school, then everything that happened in s1 could've given her enough motivation to suit up.

I liked Laurel working at CNRY better than being a DA, but they have to give everyone these big titles.

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Trini

Trini

And as an aside, maybe if she spent as much time on LL's motivations, story line, and let's face it her own acting, as she does on lippy, her version of BC/LL might be better received.

 

::skims through thread::

I doubt that.

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kismet

kismet

They just posted pics of Hawkman and Hawkgirl in costume, and they look really amazingly good. How can they get that right and then get Laurel's and Diggle's costumes so so wrong?

Those costumes are AMAZING!! But I don't think its fair to compare them to LL. Its a completely different show with a different budget. LL's outfit was the 2nd one they had to make for the BC. And in s3, they had other costumes that they had to budget for like the revised Arrow costume (Cisco's modifications not the turtle one) & all the LoA stuff. On top of that most of their budget was probably sucked up in making the ATOM suit, a cost the LoT does not have to bear. LoT budget dept real owes ARROW a big thank you present for that one.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Those costumes are AMAZING!! But I don't think its fair to compare them to LL. Its a completely different show with a different budget. LL's outfit was the 2nd one they had to make for the BC. And in s3, they had other costumes that they had to budget for like the revised Arrow costume (Cisco's modifications not the turtle one) & all the LoA stuff. On top of that most of their budget was probably sucked up in making the ATOM suit, a cost the LoT does not have to bear. LoT budget dept real owes ARROW a big thank you present for that one.

I get what you're saying, but I'm sorry - I don't agree that Laurel's terrible costume was the result of budget cuts, especially considering Roy's and Diggle's. I do think they were influenced too much by trying to differentiate it from Sara's (and by KC's fashionista sensibilities), and also the designer seemed to be going though a buckles phase (Roy's costume was also buckle-laden). But as Delphi pointed out, Black Canary has had a lot of costumes over the years. Why not take more inspiration from that?

Not that we ever will, but I'd like to see what some of the other proposed designs were.

Edited by Starfish35
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Smoaking Reporter

Smoaking Reporter

I for one am able to root for Laurel, I enjoy her even though the writers treat her as an afterthought every chance they get. There was no need to turn her into a pill popping drunk just to give her, her "island". Not all heroes need islands, but everything that happened once Oliver/Sara were "dead" should have been considered her island if she needed one. It broke her family apart, it caused her to go to law school, then everything that happened in s1 could've given her enough motivation to suit up.

I liked Laurel working at CNRY better than being a DA, but they have to give everyone these big titles.

Same. I enjoy the Laurel character a lot and I'm excited about them exploring her difficulty with balancing her two careers. I just hope they show more of her being an ADA than they did in S3. What I loved about her work at CNRI was the fact that we were able to see LL interact with her clients. We saw how passionate she was about her job and about helping/caring for people. It brought out a softer, more relatable side to her. Hate that they got rid of CNRI & sent her to the DA's office where we really don't see her do that type of work anymore.

In S2 I saw the first character I fell in love with on Arrow become irrelevant to the story. Her addiction arc wasn't needed. She definitely should have suited up in S2. To me her "island" was everything that happened with Sara/Oliver/Gambit & Tommy's death.

She's supposed to have a pivotal BC moment in 4x01. Here's to hoping it's not the bike because they already spoiled that.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

No. They gave everything else to Sara. Granted she had the motorcycle first too.

If it was Lady Shiva or Batgirl we would have had casting info by now.

It's pretty much the bike.

Even though I should remember since i just rewatched s2 like 2 months ago but i think the only time we saw Sara on a motorcycle was with Oliver driving?

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Well, she definitely had her own bike - she left on it in Seeing Red. As for ever seeing her riding it alone, I don't remember. I seem to recall Laurel stalking Arrow/Canary outside of STAR Labs, and I feel like maybe they were on different bikes at that point? But they might have been riding together. I can't remember what ep that's in to check.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Basically, Laurel is getting Sara's hand-me-downs.

 

The only thing they could do is make Laurel a meta human and give her a real Cry. I don't see that happening and I would cry BS on Laurel just happening to get a power just like the artifical device she has. She isn't a computer you can program.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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catrox14

catrox14

KC has a long face that does not seem very suited to a masked look. The long straight blond wig didn't help.

CL has a rounder face and I think a mask worked for her.

I do think KC looks better now that she ditched the wig, but I still don't like her look.

 

I would think they could design a mask that would suit her face. Maybe something catlike would work with her face?  Seriously. If she's trying hide her identity her big spidery eyes are pretty identifiable IMO.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Basically, Laurel is getting Sara's hand-me-downs.

The only thing they could do is make Laurel a meta human and give her a real Cry. I don't see that happening and I would cry BS on Laurel just happening to get a power just like the artifical device she has. She isn't a computer you can program.

Oh yeah, they screwed her over by giving Sara majority of Black Canarys gadets/weapons/stories. I don't even know what they were thinking cause they couldn't have been thinking long-term.

I think it would work if there were another particle accelerater and the Canary Cry device influenced her meta gene but i dont ever see it happening.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I don't necessarily care if they make her a metahuman or whether she sticks with the neck device, but I hope that her fighting skills are developed to the point where she doesn't have to use the cry very often. I think it looks utterly ridiculous in action - and that's not a knock on KC at all. I don't think there's anyone who could do it and not look ridiculous. 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I think she looked good while performing it lol. But for a device that was supposedly made 10x more powerful, it didn't perform as it should have. It should be knocking people out. But i dont think they will rely on it that much since she only used it twice even though it should've been used in Nanda Parbat. Plus BC only uses it when her hands can't do the necessary damage.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

They let me incorporate the motorcycle gloves, fingerless gloves,

 

 

 

Yeah, the way MG mentioned it during Comic Con, I'm guessing the motorcycle is the "iconic moment" they're teasing, too.

I've done posts on what I thought they were basing the fingerless gloves on and in the comics they certainly do look like boxing hand guards/wraps but KC says she was allowed to bring in motorcycle gloves.  Ok.  Here's the thing, last season she did NOT drive a motorcycle so once again, the gloves served zero practical purpose. 

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kismet

kismet

I get what you're saying, but I'm sorry - I don't agree that Laurel's terrible costume was the result of budget cuts, especially considering Roy's and Diggle's. I do think they were influenced too much by trying to differentiate it from Sara's (and by KC's fashionista sensibilities), and also the designer seemed to be going though a buckles phase (Roy's costume was also buckle-laden). But as Delphi pointed out, Black Canary has had a lot of costumes over the years. Why not take more inspiration from that?

Not that we ever will, but I'd like to see what some of the other proposed designs were.

Frankly, I just trying to rationalize why the costume came out the way it did. When all else fails, I generally like to blame budgetary restraints (its impartial). And at least I can rest better knowing that people weren't legit thinking this is the best option we got when given ample time & money. But honestly, it probably was a cluster of bad decisions.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

I've done posts on what I thought they were basing the fingerless gloves on and in the comics they certainly do look like boxing hand guards/wraps but KC says she was allowed to bring in motorcycle gloves. Ok. Here's the thing, last season she did NOT drive a motorcycle so once again, the gloves served zero practical purpose.

Marc did say they have a scene where she rides a motorcycle last season but it was cut from the script.

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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

The mask actually looks kind of similar to the one Dinah wore in the comics when she was first starting out. So I can kind of handwave that away.

In regards to the hair however, I don't mind that is not pulled back or hidden under a wig. Heroines have been rocking long hair for years and it's not hard for me too suspend my disbelief. What would be even better for me is if they incorporated someone actually grabbing Laurel by her hair and in turn have her face the challenge and come out victorious. They used this method with Faith on Angel and I thought it was realistic and neat.

I still can't get with the costume though. Black Canary has had tons of costumes through the years and they chose not to draw on any of them for inspiration. It's like they picked up a book about Dinah and all they took away from it were "fishnets". I've seen better cosplays than that travesty. (No, seriously http://www.deviantart.com/art/Black-Canary-New-52-Birds-of-Prey-375749241 )

I also like Roy's costumes but think it could most definitely be streamlined. But his isn't nearly as bad.

She has an even better one imo.

http://pre06.deviantart.net/611a/th/pre/i/2013/359/e/0/team_7___black_canary___new_52___dc_comics_by_whitelemon-d6zduag.jpg

 

This one is pretty nice too:

http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/dc_character_cosplay_goof_off_by_phoenixforce85-d8kmnu9.jpg

 

I sort of like this drawing

http://www.tencentticker.com/projectrooftop/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Paul-Milligan.jpg

 

This one may be even better

http://orig14.deviantart.net/8f53/f/2010/079/e/d/black_canary_redesign_by_stolenthunder.png

 

They just posted pics of Hawkman and Hawkgirl in costume, and they look really amazingly good. How can they get that right and then get Laurel's and Diggle's costumes so so wrong?

 

Did any of the designers who worked on Arrow before moved to the Flash or LoT? or does the entire team works for all shows?

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Delphi

Delphi

(edited)
I liked that one better too :) . I posted that one for fishnets example. One of a million ways to do it.

I believe Coleen Atwood does the pilots (except legends) then they hire different designers for the shows. Maya on Arrow then others for the others.

Edited by Delphi
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Marc did say they have a scene where she rides a motorcycle last season but it was cut from the script.

But she had the costume and the gloves the very first time she went out and there was no motorcycle. 

 

I believe Coleen Atwood does the pilots (except legends) then they hire different designers for the shows. Maya on Arrow then others for the others.

 

Yeah, the Oscar winning Coleen Atwood she did the original Arrow costume, the Flash costume and they also got her for Supergirl's outfit too.  When they approached her to do the third costume, she said only if it's for a woman this time (which worked for Supergirl, lol) but it makes me think they really should have tried to get her for Laurel's costume.  I have such issues with the buckled cat suit look.  Maybe coming in after Sara's costume nobody could have done it great (since everything that made sense on the old costume was deemed off limits it seems the second time around).    

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Delphi

Delphi

(edited)

The guy that designs the costumes for Maya is actually very talented, I can't recall if he designed black canary but I don't think he did. If he did I'm sure his plan was good and then got diluted in the process.

Edited by Delphi
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

I find the fingerless gloves particularly irritating, because (1) she's an ADA, meaning her prints are almost certainly in a database, AND she more than anyone knows the danger of leaving prints (although really, you'd have to be pretty dumb not to know that) and (2) the whole outfit is so terrible that each individual terrible element is even more annoying. I'm giving both her and Sara a pass on the wig/flowing hair, because it's an iconic thing, and if I didn't hate Buffy fighting with flowing hair and miniskirts, I can't hate the BCs doing it the same way. And Sara's bustier was utterly ridiculous. But Laurel has the unflattering mask that doesn't remotely hide her identity, the overdone eye makeup, the ridiculous lipstick, the buckles, my god the buckles, and I think she said the turtleneck thing is a bodysuit, which means she has to unsnap it to pee. Seriously, think how long it takes her to undo enough of that ridiculous costume just to pee.

I do appreciate that she's not showing cleavage while fighting, but maybe a crewneck would be better, because if she forgets to put on the mock turtleneck bodysuit before the wig/makeup/mask, they're all going to be ruined by the turtleneck drag.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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