Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[Sakura12]

This season it looks like they are going to go back to their original plan with Laurel and make her Black Canary. Which does bring up the question of why? They have a great Black Canary in Sara, she's already an established fighter and we got most her origin story out of the way, now she can leave and come back when ever she is needed. To not take away from Oliver's hero journey. When she does come back they can use that time to fill in some of her missing origin with the LOA to introduce Ra's al Ghul, so she has a purpose. 

 

I know people hated Sara getting all the screen time, but it was one season and now it's pretty much done. Laurel can't possibly be a hero to match Sara or Oliver in one season, so it's multiple seasons of watching her after having already supposedly seen the start of her journey since the 1st episode of Season One. We've already been watching her and it hasn't been enjoyable, why would I want more of that?

 

If I don't like lima beans, changing the color of them isn't going to make me like it. 

[Password]

They used the flashbacks to show Sara in a better light than Laurel, I guess because they wanted the audience to forgive Sara. But was it necessary? If they hadn't hooked Oliver and Sara up again, I'd say no. I wasn't holding the past against Sara when she returned.

Up until Sara and Oliver getting together again I thought Sara WAS the penitent sister. Her actions showed me she loved her family and was ashamed of her past, not just LoA but hurting Laurel. Because of how she acted and held herself together I forgave her for her youthful hurting of Laurel because she learnt (I thought she did) and cared about her family to the death.

I would've cheered more for Sara if she decided not to get together with Oliver and try to fix what was broken between her and Laurel. But then they decided to bring up the past again and put Sara on my ish list. I wish they hadn't.

I'm really sad for Laurel. And KC. Laurel's character is fairly delusional about her relationship now and then with Oliver. Someone slap that woman because sense is not something she has concerning Oliver Queen. I would adore if they actually addressed how little Laurel knows Oliver. Like someone, Diggle, point it out for goodness sake. If she hasn't worked it out by herself she needs a reality check.

[ban1o]

Wait was Sara really supposed to be a villain? Wow. I can't believe they would change entire storylines because of fan response. Her being a villain would have been cool. 

Edited August 10, 2014 by ban1o

[Sakura12]

Sara being a villain was changed before the second season started, so it wasn't from fan response. They told Caity after she was hired that she was playing the Black Canary. 

 

Originally before they cast the part, Sara was going to be Ravenger. 

 

However, now I wish they had kept her villain, it would've been interesting for Oliver, Quentin and Laurel to have to deal with, kept her from hooking up with Oliver, kept me from seeing a much better option for Black Canary, and probably changed the whole Slade is obsessed with Shado storyline. Since Sara would've been working with him, what happened with them on the island would've been different. Something like they both thought Oliver left them to die (we'd find out later there was another reason, or to fuel his manpain and darkness he did leave them) then whatever happened to them afterwards turned them against him. 

 

I still would probably hate Laurel becoming the BC but I would've never seen a better version first. That just hurt Laurel's character even more.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

ETA - wait, Sara was supposed to be a villain? I didn't know that. If that's the case, then what happened later really was a retcon

Short answer is no, that's not the case, long answer taken to the Sara thread.

ETA: Never mind, @Sakura12 already explained the situation.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[statsgirl]

What puzzles me is that while they've used flashbacks to show that she was completely deluded about her relationship with Oliver, they gave her such silly lines as "I know you like my own name" and "I know you in your bones." And this after 2 seasons where she didn't really know anything about him and had very little contact with him in S2. And she still doesn't know about his love child. It makes me wonder if the writers are deliberately making her think she knows him only to have the rug pulled out from under her at some point, or if they just don't realize (or don't care) how the flashbacks and most of their present day interactions contradict this idea of them knowing each other so well. I don't recall ever watching a show where this was such a problem tbh.

Whenever the question of "Do the writers hate Laurel?" comes up, the back-and-forthing between love/hate and Oliver/Tommy doesn't much bother me, but giving her scenes, both in flashbacks and in the present, that she hasn't a clue about Oliver, and then having her say "I know you like I know my own name" and Oliver's "no one knows me as well as you do" and "you were the only one who saw the real me", really makes me wonder.

 

I would've cheered more for Sara if she decided not to get together with Oliver and try to fix what was broken between her and Laurel.

I think she would have been doing it if Laurel hadn't started throwing barware and blaming for everything that went wrong in Laurel's life. At some point, you have to let other people live with the consequences of their own actions.

 

I wonder if everyone in the family trying to appease Laurel as she was growing up wasn't what turned her into what she is today.

 

I know people hated Sara getting all the screen time, but it was one season and now it's pretty much done.

I know it's scary to hope in case it doesn't happen but I think the EPs are going to try to get her into the show as much as possible.

She's already scheduled for 6 episodes and more if they can manage it.  If Barrowman hadn't been coming on as a regular, I think she would have.

Edited August 11, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sakura12]

When did it change to 6, it was 5 last I heard? Sara's not in episode 3, Caity's been on vacation in Florida all week. So they already have 2 down. I think Sara is just going to be used to introduce Ra's al Ghul, then they'll kill her so Laurel can take over (because apparently it's easy to become a vigilante)

Edited August 11, 2014 by stacey

[ban1o]

When did it change to 6, it was 5 last I heard? Sara's not in episode 3, Caity's been on vacation in Florida all week. So they already have 2 down. I think Sara is just going to be used to introduce Ra's al Ghul, then they'll kill her so Laurel can take over (because apparently it's easy to become a vigilante)

They confirmed 6 and maybe more if she was available. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by stacey

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's remember, this is the Laurel topic. Discussion of Sara can head to her topic, and Spoilers should go in the Spoiler topic. Thank you!

[Sakura12]

I keep watching other actors discuss their work and I can't keep putting the blame on the writers for the reason that Laurel doesn't work as a character. Because from their interviews they do seem to have a vision for the character it's Cassidy that doesn't seem to be performing what they want. The drug/alcohol abuse storyline was supposed to make us feel for Laurel's struggles and I know not a lot time was spent on it, but what time was spent it I got nothing from Cassidy acting that made me want to care about Laurel's problems. To me it appears she just read the lines on the script. For a supposed "method" actor she didn't put anything raw or real into her performance. 

 

One actress talked about how the writers make the foundation for the character, it's the actors job to build from that, create and birth that character into being. Make that character appear to be a real person. 

 

That's the main issue with Cassidy. Laurel doesn't feel like a real person, she didn't make Laurel part of the Arrow universe. She could disappear from the show and it wouldn't make one bit of difference. From her interviews she doesn't appear to know all that much about her character or care to learn or grow the character. All she's been doing to prepare for a role she's been playing for 2 seasons is work out more, which is not the part of her character that needs to be fixed, since an already fit stunt double will be doing all the action scenes anyway.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Sakura12

[slayer2]

I think many people in the Olicity camp have transferred their hate for Laurel onto Katie Cassidy and once that happens, it's very hard to shake. It reminds me a lot of what happened to Lori Holden in the Walking Dead fandom. She constantly received hate tweets as well as death threats because people couldn't separate between her and the character she was playing.

I agree with this one wholeheartedly. Re:some folks in general about KC and Laurel. An inordinate amount of hate for someone that you've never met can be stressful for everyone involved especially the actor. No one deserves this much vitriol over a TV show IMO (unless you're Ron Carlivati of course ;)) or you're writing terribly racist dreck that degrades a cultural group(looking at your Plec). Some of the things said about her like 'she should know how to play an alcoholic because her dad is one'. Like really? Wtf.

I can understand frustration towards a character but sometimes you get to these fan events and people can't understand the difference between what's real and fake and it's scary, man. Scary for me, I can only imagine for the actors.

Edited because I know the difference between your and *you're and should type like it.

Edited August 11, 2014 by slayer2

[Velocity23]

For me the KC hate is a combination of strong dislike of the Laurel character/the failed attempts by the writers to make her more likable which also caused other storylines to be pushed back. KCs latest public appearances (where she managed to annoy Sara and Felicity/Olicity fans when talking about those characters and on the other hand have no clue about her own character.) And KC is the one who actually has to get fans to like her and root for her. Its not gonna happen that way. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by Velocity23

[wonderwall]

@Velocity23 is kind of right. I used to like KC, I enjoyed her stint in Supernatural. But I stopped appreciating her and started to become more apathetic when she basically said if Oliver and Felicity would happen it would be a fling. It's tough to root for someone who demeans a whole aspect of a show in order to prop one that they're a part of. Sorry, I appreciate a certain level professionalism and KC (IMO) hasn't met that standard ever since she started Arrow. And it's been continually getting worse with each interview as she says the same superficial things about her character. 

 

While I don't actively hate on KC, I do understand why people don't like her (don't condone the hating though)

[willpwr]

My dislike of KC/Laurel has nothing to do with Olicity and everything to do with KC herself, from her public appearances to the way she portrays her character and takes me out of a show I otherwise enjoy watching. I don't hate her, I can't hate someone I don't know but I'm entitled to my opinion and don't have to like them just because.

 

As far as fan wars are concerned, every group has it's members that take things too far and that includes some of KC's fans and the way they insult Sara (fake Black Canary, slut, she should die for Laurel to take her place, etc), SA (he should be fired for what he said at Comic Con, never mind that he was professional and didn't insult anyone), Diggle, Felicity, etc but especially the two ladies that have "stolen" KC's roles by simply doing a better portrayal than her. It's like there's a conspiracy where the universe is out to get KC and steal things from her that should just be handed to her instead of her doing her research, trying to elevate what she's given and basically earning better storylines by showing she understands her character, etc. I'm not going to judge KC for what her fans say and I don't judge the others for what their fans say either.

 

I look at the rest of the cast in their appearances and they seem to be having the time of their lives and constantly praise each other. It's just such a huge contrast.

[poetgirl925]

I agree that a lot of the hate towards KC is unreasonable. I don't care much about her one way or another since Arrow is my first contact with her as an actress (and unfortunately I'm not impressed and will likely never bother to watch her in anything else.) I've tried to be a voice of reason a couple of times when I've seen something about her online that I thought was unreasonable, but I'm pretty sure no one will change their minds, and I'm not being paid to run around online and defend her. So, I'll say something maybe once or twice - I did the same thing when I saw someone being horrible about SA - just to kind of point out that there's a line between the characters and actors. Personally, I find stans who defend everything just as absolutely bizarre as the haters - the ones who tweet actors constantly or act like they're part of their PR team. I see people say she's bitchy, but they can't know that (obviously.) But her defenders don't know either, so it's all opinion. And that opinion comes from her personal appearances, so she has some responsibility there in how she's coming across to the larger fan base.

The thing is, I'm sure KC is not the only person who has ever had this problem, especially in a genre fandom. I'll go with Kristen Kreuk as an example. I had no use for Lana but I found Kreuk to be charming in her interviews and appearances. Maybe she still had a lot of haters, I don't know. She probably did. Roy is another example - CH's personality that comes across in appearances somehow makes Roy more bearable to me. I know as an actor that hate can be scary, but if you're an actor in the Internet age, it comes with the job and she has to either ignore it or find the best way to deal with it. I'm assuming KC has PR people. Isn't managing her online image part of their job? I watch her interviews hoping for some insight into Laurel and what she thinks of her character and usually come away thinking I wasted my time. Sometimes her answers come off in such a way that she looks ... bitter, maybe? Bitter can be interpreted as bitchy. Maybe she even has a right to that feeling since this is probably not the role she initially envisioned, but you have to be careful if you're in the spotlight. I don't want to see 'bitter' from an actor - I want to see them talk about their character, or you know, just be entertaining. So is KC a fan of her character's story? It's hard to tell with her sometimes, and I consider myself an average fan with no love or hate agenda either way. I have no idea if her con appearances would make a difference because there's her 'no video' rule, but I definitely think she could do better in some of her interviews and personal appearances that I have seen. I also think her PR team would do better to coach her instead of banning video of her appearances. Just as a fan of the show in general, it's mildly irritating that she's the only one who nixes video recordings, especially if it's a joint panel. If it's just her then I suppose it's her prerogative but I don't think it's really helping matters.

Edited August 11, 2014 by poetgirl925

[TanyaKay]

Honestly, I fail to understand why KC's people do not stop her from attending all these cons, its not like she is desperate for money or anything! She is doing dis service to her fans and her character of Laurel by appearing in those cons and shooting off about her character when she has no clue what she is doing. It is just sad.

[KirkB]

I don't think Cassidy NEEDS to read the comics (especially since the EP's are doing their own variation of the characters and stories anyway) to adequately portray Laurel but if she's not going to she needs to stop telling other people to. And as for Laurel's faults as a character, I think they are equal parts the writing/directing and Cassidy's acting. After all, a good enough actor can make gold out of crap writing and lousy directing. If two seasons in now you are getting the exact same complaints about the exact same things with a character, something is very wrong.

Edited August 11, 2014 by KirkB

[TanyaKay]

I don't think Cassidy NEEDS to read the comics (especially since the EP's are doing their own variation of the characters and stories anyway) to adequately portray Laurel but if she's not going to she needs to stop telling other people to. And as for Laurel's faults as a character, I think they are equal parts the writing/directing and Cassidy's acting. After all, a good enough actor can make gold out of crap writing and lousy directing. If two seasons in now you are getting the exact same complaints about the exact same things with a character, something is very wrong.

 

I think she tells people to read comics because someone told her that in GA comics, Dinah Laurel Lance is not only the black canary but also the romantic leading lady, she wants everyone to read those comics and believe in that cannon, otherwise there is no need for her to tell everyone to 'go read comics' because frankly, it makes her look stupid.

[statsgirl]

The problem is that the show has got other actors like Manu Bennett and Emily Bett Rickards saying that they that didn't know the comics but when they got hired for their roles, they went out and read everything they could so they would be able to be better in their roles. EBR even has a bookshelf made just for the Green Arrow comics.

 

It doesn't make KC look good in contrast.

[AnyoneButYou]

Maybe EBR is like some of us and is a fan of the show, so she wanted to start reading the comics? I started reading the comics when I started getting into the show, so I would think it would be natural for an actual actor on the show to want to read the comics. Or, perhaps she wanted to be able to give informed answers if anyone ever asks her questions about the comics when she is at conventions or giving interviews instead of making people feel bad for not knowing the answers themselves.

 

I don't think she started reading the comics for personal character motivation, but just because she wanted to get to know the Green Arrow comics. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Sakura12]

Most actors read the comics if they are going to be part of a comic book show/movie, probably just to get the feel for the universe they are going to be a part of. They don't have to take away anything from it but that. CL said she read Black Canary comics but still wanted to bring her take on the character. The issue with KC is, she's telling people to read the comics when she hasn't and her character is nothing like the comic counterpart. When she should've actually thought of an answer about the character she is playing. Not doing that shows me she doesn't care that much and is just in it for the paycheck which comes across in her performance.

 

Even if an actor is in a shitty movie or has horribly written part (they agreed to do it and are getting paid) they should always give it their all if only to enhance their skills. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Sakura12

[wingster55]

It's fine if she reads them to understand the universe or enjoyment.

But to help her acting (if she's actually said that's the reason)? I call foul there. 

 

 

issue with KC is, she's telling people to read the comics

 

When? In SDCC with Geoff, that was clearly a joke and a good one if it wasn't delivered shyly. 

Much ado about nothing, that moment was

Edited August 12, 2014 by wingster55

[AnyoneButYou]

I don't recall her ever saying she was reading the comics to help her acting - just that she had a collection of Green Arrow comics that she had started reading to help her get to know the GA universe, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Sakura12]

When? In SDCC with Geoff, that was clearly a joke and a good one if it wasn't delivered shyly.

 

She told a fan to "read the comics" at one of her con appearances too, instead of answering their question about Laurel. 

 

The one at SDCC was just a complete embarrassment for the entire panel especially being said to the CCO of DC. It seems to be her stock answer in lieu of talking about the actual character she's playing. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by Sakura12

[TanyaKay]

It's fine if she reads them to understand the universe or enjoyment.

But to help her acting (if she's actually said that's the reason)? I call foul there. 

 

 

When? In SDCC with Geoff, that was clearly a joke and a good one if it wasn't delivered shyly. 

Much ado about nothing, that moment was

 

Oh it was not just in SDCC, she has said that multiple times in smaller cons, in fact she even insulted a fan in Australia when the girl asked her about what future holds for Laurel. Her response was that didn't she know what happened in comics, didn't she know that Laurel got the leather jacket at the end of season 2 finale. The girl was quite embarrassed and sat down when she was told twice that she should've read the comics before asking such a stupid question. As Katie banned video recording of her sessions, there was no video recording but the girl posted it on tumblr but was bullied by KC fans so she even deleted that. However it stays online because many people reblogged it.

EBR never said that reading comics helped her character, in fact she repeatedly said that it is both a blessing and a curse that there is no back story to her character. The blessing is that she can play it whichever way she and the directors and writers decided for it to go and the curse is that she does not have the rich history that other DC characters have - to go back for references. EBR also mentioned that she has started reading not only Green Arrow comics but also Teen Titans and Batman comics to familiarize herself with DC universe and this is how every professional would behave.

No matter how big a fan you are, Katie's multiple public faux pax makes it impossible for the fans of the show to root for Laurel Lance. I don't think Katie even cares that much. She gets paid a lot of money for minimal work and that is always glorious.

[statsgirl]

It's fine if she reads them to understand the universe or enjoyment.

But to help her acting (if she's actually said that's the reason)? I call foul there. 

She didn't say it was to help her acting.  She became a fan of the comics after getting the job on the show, and it carried on from there.

 

When she got the audition script for Felicity, she got really excited because she thought "she's so smart" and really wanted the role after reading the Hamlet reference.  By coincidence, she was going to go to a performance of Taming of the Shrew that night. Does knowing Shakespeare help her with her role since Felicity is also familiar with him? Doubtful.  Maybe it just shows that she's an actress who reaches out past the limitations of the script she's given.  Or maybe it's that, like SA, she gets really excited about the show and wants to know everything she can about it.

 

In contrast:

 

No matter how big a fan you are, Katie's multiple public faux pax makes it impossible for the fans of the show to root for Laurel Lance. I don't think Katie even cares that much. She gets paid a lot of money for minimal work and that is always glorious.

I get the feeling that KC cares more about fashion than the show.  Even if that's not true, the impression that she's going to get the BC mask and Oliver as a love interest handed to her without her having to do any work is a turn-off. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Stop. Now.

 

Conversation about about what actors who are NOT Katie Cassidy does not belong here.

 

Stop talking about what KC says about the comics. We get it. We're going nowhere with the conversation.

 

Future posts that don't follow these guidelines will be deleted without explanation.

 

 

[Luckylyn]

It occurs to me that the big misstep of the writers is that they decided the writing for Laurel would be inspired by Rachel Dawes of Nolan's Batman instead of the Black Canary herself.  Rachel Dawes was not the right fit to become the Black Canary.

[Starfish35]

Have they actually admitted that? I know I've mockingly called Laurel Rachel Dawes-lite, but I didn't know they'd actually said Laurel was based on Rachel. If that's true, that's....wow. Smart move guys. Base your female lead on an original character from a Batman movie rather than the actual comic book character she was supposed to be based on.

All I'd seen was that MG said they told him he could make one character a lawyer (because of his legal background), and he chose Laurel. Which is not any better, I suppose, as a reason. To me it just says they didn't really think through the setup for Laurel's character and what would make sense for a character based on her comic book counterpart. It seems like she was just created as the love interest, with some vague idea that she would someday be BC, but no real plan on how they were going to get her there.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

 I don't think they've ever said Laurel was based on Rachel Dawes.  I know MG mentioned that he was the one that decided to make Laurel a lawyer because he used to be a lawyer.  However, given how much of Batman Begins and TDK Trilogy this show ripped off, it seems obvious that they were trying to make Laurel the Rachel Dawes character.  

 

I recently made posts in the Bitterness thread about how much Arrow S1 ripped off Batman Begins...it's surreal

[wonderwall]

Felicity has been described as the heart and core of the show... Do you think (maybe way way way in the future) that Laurel could ever take Felicity's place? Not in the team, but as the core of the show? 

 

I was thinking of different scenarios, and I think the only way this could happen was if team Arrow disbanded for whatever reasons (Digg's kid, Felicity's death maybe. oh god please not the latter, and what's left is Oliver, Laurel, Roy, and Thea. Even then,  I can't imagine Laurel being the core of the show as she would always be in Felicity's shadow...

[statsgirl]

The heart of the show has to be a character who is likable for who he/she is (unlike Oliver who is often not likable), who is optimistic and who sees the best in people, put other people ahead of himself/herself, is generally likable and is someone who is a touchstone for the best and who keeps other characters pushing to be better.

 

I could have seen Tommy as the heart of the show.  I can see Thea or Sara or Diggle or Quentin take that role because they have some of those characteristics in them.  But that character is not Laurel and it's never been her.  Even a major tragedy, like Sara or Quentin dying, isn't going to make her become like that.  Five years on an island being tortured?  Maybe.

[NumberCruncher]

I don't know...if the writing for Laurel ends up being fantastic and Katie really sells it, I can envision a scenario where that could happen.  I just don't have enough faith that the writers can pull that off.  I think Oliver is the heart and core of the show, TBH.  I would call Felicity the moral voice of the show.  I don't think they have really defined what Laurel is yet though it seems like they're setting her up this season to represent justice.

[wonderwall]

@NumberCruncher, While I really do love Oliver (though this may be an unpopular opinion on this board), I wouldn't consider him to be the heart of the show. Why? Because to me, the heart of the show is someone who keeps bringing you back and makes you want to watch more. Oliver himself didn't do that for me and I ended up quitting halfway through. Felicity's the one who brought me back, so I consider her the heart of the show. Also because from what I've seen, most people look forward to seeing her on screen (likewise with Digg). It's no secret that Felicity gave Arrow a new feel to it and a better balance between dark and light. So yeah, for me Felicity = heart + moral compass, Digg = silent confidante + wise partner, Oliver = leader + arrow persona

 

@statsgirl, if Laurel was tortured for 5 years, it wouldn't necessarily make her more likable, just a character who's easier to sympathize with. I can't really see that happening though :/ And if it does, it would most definitely take away from Oliver's story, not to mention it would just be a recycled plot point used with Sara and Oliver. There would be nothing new to deal with if Laurel went through what Oliver and Sara did. It'd just be boring to me as a viewer. 

Edited August 13, 2014 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

wonderwall, with the island reference, I meant that something huge would be needed to change Laurel.into the type of person who could be the heart of a show.  Losing Sara and her parents divorcing didn't do it (she was still self-centred and blamed other people for her problems), and losing Tommy didn't do it either.

 

His five years away changed Oliver from a selfish douche to a killer, and with that he is now able to become a better person, someone he probably would never have been had his life continued the way it was going.  It would take that kind of dynamite to change Laurel and make her to take responsibility for her own actions, put other people ahead of herself, and to be able to look at things being grey rather than black and white.

 

While she did realize that it was her actions that put Tommy into the position where he died, she was still blaming other people for her life and still resenting it when they didn't put her first and acting superior. You don't get to be the heart of a show by suggesting Oliver should fire Felicity and give Laurel her job, or by dismissing Diggle and Felicity in their own workplace.

[Velocity23]

I love this post that goes into detail why Oliver never chose to tell Laurel the truth. 

http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/94365801618/what-if-oliver-told-laurel-the-truth

[wingster55]

I always viewed Oliver not telling Laurel as a way to keep her out of danger. Knowing the secret might put them in danger in Oliver's mind..which is why he never told Thea, Moira, was never planning on telling Tommy.

[apinknightmare]

I always viewed Oliver not telling Laurel as a way to keep her out of danger. Knowing the secret might put them in danger in Oliver's mind..which is why he never told Thea, Moira, was never planning on telling Tommy.

 

I would probably buy this if she hadn't been kidnapped/had her home broken into eleventy billion times. In this instance, telling her would have made her safer.

Edited August 14, 2014 by apinknightmare

[poetgirl925]

Honestly, I don't think Oliver keeping Laurel in the dark had anything to do with keeping her safe. The show can say that's the reason, but like everything else with Laurel/Oliver, there's a very serious show vs. tell problem. As soon as Slade rolled into town and showed up at Oliver's house, he should have started telling people Slade was bad news. He knew that Slade was privy to the details of his past relationship with Laurel and he still couldn't be bothered to tell her.

[apinknightmare]

Honestly, I don't think Oliver keeping Laurel in the dark had anything to do with keeping her safe. The show can say that's the reason, but like everything else with Laurel/Oliver, there's a very serious show vs. tell problem. As soon as Slade rolled into town and showed up at Oliver's house, he should have started telling people Slade was bad news. He knew that Slade was privy to the details of his past relationship with Laurel and he still couldn't be bothered to tell her.

 

This is especially idiotic since we find out in the finale that during their last fight on the island, Slade specifically lists all the people he's going to take away from Oliver, AND LAUREL WAS ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE. God, he's such a moron. The whole concept of keeping secrets to keep people safe is so stupid since, hey...this person's coming for you but I'm not going to give you a clue so you won't be on your guard/suspicious/on the lookout, and when he's around you'll have no idea, okay? LOVE YOU, MEAN IT, BYE.

 

Like, how many times has Laurel been a target? Granted, it's not always due to her association with Arrow, but...anyway. Whatever the show tries to sell, I think he didn't tell her for self-preservation reasons. She had such a crush on Arrow in the first season, I can understand him keeping it a secret because he wanted Laurel to love HIM. The second season, she turned on him so quickly, I don't blame him for not revealing himself, especially when Laurel was in the midst of her addiction. Do I think for a second that any of Oliver's reasons had anything to do with Laurel's safety? Nah. Not one bit.

Edited August 14, 2014 by apinknightmare

[writersblock51]

If Oliver truly wanted Laurel to be safe, he could have done a number of things differently - even if none of them meant telling her the truth.  Bottom line, she's a grown, independent and intelligent woman  (on paper, at least) - he could suggest things but it's her choice to live her life the way she wants to.

 

I think the Tumblr post that @Velocity23 posted nails it - Oliver was never sure that Laurel could accept the truth about him, before the island or after.  He's been lying to her as long as he's known her.

 

Edited August 14, 2014 by writersblock51

[poetgirl925]

He really set her up to be kidnapped again in the finale. And yes, I figure her Arrow vendetta/substance abuse issues had a lot to do with him not telling her. Stealing Dad's pain meds doesn't exactly scream trustworthy. If he felt he could trust her, there's no reason she couldn't have been the one to dose Slade with the cure. The fact that she had no role in the finale except DiD says a lot, actually, about her overall importance in the Arrow world.

Edited August 14, 2014 by poetgirl925

[statsgirl]

From the post:

 

So, Oliver couldn’t trust Laurel? No, it’s not quite that simple. Something was always missing with Laurel. Not trust necessarily, but acceptance. I think there’s always been a part of Oliver that feared if Laurel could accept the darkest parts of him. Even when they were together, before the boat, Laurel was constantly pushing Oliver to be better, to change. Was she right? Of course! However, Laurel wanted that change on her time table, not Oliver’s. Laurel’s “pushing” did play a part in Oliver deciding to go on a three week boat trip. Sara was not her fault. The boat trip was Oliver running away. Sara was Oliver setting a nuclear bomb to his life. Still, if something wasn’t missing with Laurel, he never would’ve boarded that boat. That’s not a reflection on Laurel. That’s simply a reflection on the love they shared. It was real, but was it enough? Oliver’s actions certainly point to no.

I think that trust is separate from acceptance but it's also tied into it.  Oliver couldn't be completely honest with Laurel even pre-island, but could anyone?  Is there anyone for whom Laurel had an unconditional positive regard, for whom Laurel was, as Dr. Phil likes to say, 'a soft place to fall'?  Not Lance, who she was still angry at for drinking, not Dinah who she blamed for splitting up her family and who she wanted to hurt in Salvation, certainly not Sara who she blamed for ruining her life. 

 

When Oliver was wounded he needed someone who would do what he needed them to do without fighting or sabotaging him.  I can't see that in Laurel.

 

 

Tommy said if Laurel knew who Oliver was, if she knew he was The Arrow, she’d want to be with Oliver immediately.

That's the problem, that she would want to be with Oliver because he was The Arrow, the Vigilante, the one who she thought saved the city.  But it wouldn't be real. Superheros have their flaws and annoying things they do (even TV stars get bad breath) so if she wanted to be with the Vigilante, she wouldn't necessarily want to be with the person who the Vigilante was.

 

 

Running from his relationship with Laurel put Oliver on that boat. It started his hero’s journey.

That's kind of funny, but it's also true.  It took running from Laurel to become who he could be.

 

When Felicity asks how Oliver knows her name, he replies "Because  you know my name."  Move that to a metaphor, and did Laurel ever know his name?  Did she know Tommy's until he was dying for her?

[writersblock51]

He not only set her up to be kidnapped, he didn't alert Sara or Quentin about it either.  Before he left Felicity at the mansion, he knew that she and he had a plan.  And he trusted that she could follow through and stay as safe/not dead as possible.

 

The contrast between how Oliver treated Laurel and Felicity is glaring.

If Laurel doesn't hit him with bitterness at some point about it, I cry foul.

[apinknightmare]

He not only set her up to be kidnapped, he didn't alert Sara or Quentin about it either.  Before he left Felicity at the mansion, he knew that she and he had a plan.  And he trusted that she could follow through and stay as safe/not dead as possible.

 

The contrast between how Oliver treated Laurel and Felicity is glaring.

If Laurel doesn't hit him with bitterness at some point about it, I cry foul.

 

Yeah, he endangered the lives of nearly everyone he cares about - he wouldn't have even had to tell them he was the Arrow, just that he knew Slade from the island. Yes, that would be admitting that he wasn't alone, but why is that such a big deal?

 

I would love it if Laurel blew up at him. I still have this faint hope that the "I know you like I know my own name," crap they keep selling is a set up for her really having her eyes opened to just how much she doesn't know him. Sadly, I think they'll just fast-track to being BFFs and "business partners" or whatever.

Edited August 14, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wingster55]

I would probably buy this if she hadn't been kidnapped/had her home broken into eleventy billion times. In this instance, telling her would have made her safer.

 

Not according to Oliver. Thea was put in danger in the s2 premiere, was kidnapped by Slade, saw Slade kill Moira and was made aware of the Island connection then as well. Does Oliver tell her? Nope. Doesn't even consider it.

Stupid, yes but consistent with Oliver's thinking..one could argue he doesn't tell the people he truly loves. 

[TanyaKay]

I would probably buy this if she hadn't been kidnapped/had her home broken into eleventy billion times. In this instance, telling her would have made her safer.

 

I snorted my tea all over my iPad at 'eleventy billion times'.

That apartment is jinxed.

If I were Laurel, I would run away from that place but then we all know she is not the smartest cookie in the jar.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

one could argue he doesn't tell the people he truly loves.

 

Or one could argue Oliver doesn't tell people he thinks can't handle it which is consistent with how Oliver has treated Laurel (and Thea) since he returned to Starling City.  It's stupid, but Oliver doesn't always make sense.

[TanyaKay]

He really set her up to be kidnapped again in the finale. And yes, I figure her Arrow vendetta/substance abuse issues had a lot to do with him not telling her. Stealing Dad's pain meds doesn't exactly scream trustworthy. If he felt he could trust her, there's no reason she couldn't have been the one to dose Slade with the cure. The fact that she had no role in the finale except DiD says a lot, actually, about her overall importance in the Arrow world.

 

I totally agree, in fact most of her role was in the last three episodes was forced to make her relevant, otherwise, she was not really needed to tell a story.

 

That whole dialogue about knowing him like her name and someone's bones, she was handed over the finding out about Sebastian's predated press release, usually all this online snooping is Felicity's job but they gave it to Laurel so that she can give that speech and to enforce her entry in the Arrow lair.

After that she deliberately ignored Oliver's advice and followed him to that under ground bunker and then became a DiD again when she needed all that cajoling to shoot an arrow into a pile of rubble. I mean it was not like she had to shoot in someone's eye!  

 

Once she got to the precinct, she played the DiD twice, first when Nyssa shot her with a dart and later when she was picked up by Slade's goons. In the end, there was a maniacal laughter and handing over the magical jacket. She had absolutely nothing to do with the plot or any of the storylines.

 

She was there because they had to use her, she had nothing to do with the story.

[apinknightmare]

Not according to Oliver. Thea was put in danger in the s2 premiere, was kidnapped by Slade, saw Slade kill Moira and was made aware of the Island connection then as well. Does Oliver tell her? Nope. Doesn't even consider it.

Stupid, yes but consistent with Oliver's thinking..one could argue he doesn't tell the people he truly loves. 

 

We could also argue whether Oliver truly loves Laurel considering he told Slade to do what he had to when he told Oliver he was going to kill Laurel, lmao. The one inarguable fact here is that Oliver is an emotional (and sometimes intellectual) moron.

 

(For the record, I do think Oliver loves and cares for Laurel - just not romantically anymore)

Edited August 14, 2014 by apinknightmare