Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[KirkB]

Honestly, I'm a little surprised pre-island Oliver didn't try to hook up with Dinah too, just so he could have the Lance Trifecta. Now how do you suppose Laurel (or Sara for that matter) would handle THAT?

[BkWurm1]

Obviously she'd see the good in Oliver and wonder why people can't just be happy for her?

[catrox14]

Oh my gods. I never noticed that CNRI.  LOL nice.

[TanyaKay]

Honestly, I'm a little surprised pre-island Oliver didn't try to hook up with Dinah too, just so he could have the Lance Trifecta. Now how do you suppose Laurel (or Sara for that matter) would handle THAT?

 

I am surprised that he has not made googly eyes at Detective Lance after the island. I mean who knows what happened with Slade and Yao Fei before he caught up with Shado and Sara. Oliver needed sex - if there were no girls, he would make do with Fryers.

 

In my head cannon, Oliver and Dinah had done it when he visited her at her place of work because he just could not resist anyone who is named Lance.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note: As per this post in the Notes from the Mods thread. We now wish to move the conversation on from the Black Canary topic. At this point it has been covered thoroughly, so until there is anything solid from the show, we want you to please move on from that topic.

Thank you.

[TanyaKay]

I wonder if Katie Cassidy

will delete her photos in the gym from her instagram account now that it is confirmed that Caity Lotz is back as Black Canary (she is there in the first episode, the second is titled Sara and the third also has something to do with Sailors and ships hence Sara connection). What if the producers were just trolling her that you will become canary one day and then they will be like ... may be season 7

Edited July 18, 2014 by stacey
Spoiler tags

[wonderwall]

If all of you could ask KC one question and a follow up question, what would they be? (don't have to worry about rudeness, or whatever. This is hypothetical)

 

For me I would ask if she would actually date a guy who fooled around her sister while he was dating her. If she says no. Which she will because what woman would ever say yes. then I would follow up with why she would want her character to end up with such a guy? I think that it would be interesting to see her answer this question and how she takes it. Would she be stumped? Or would she be smart about her answer? 

 

Again, purely hypothetical. Because i truly do wonder what KC thinks when she says Laurel is Ollie's soulmate. (I say Ollie and not Oliver on purpose)

[TanyaKay]

If all of you could ask KC one question and a follow up question, what would they be? (don't have to worry about rudeness, or whatever. This is hypothetical)

 

For me I would ask if she would actually date a guy who fooled around her sister while he was dating her. If she says no. Which she will because what woman would ever say yes. then I would follow up with why she would want her character to end up with such a guy? I think that it would be interesting to see her answer this question and how she takes it. Would she be stumped? Or would she be smart about her answer? 

 

Again, purely hypothetical. Because i truly do wonder what KC thinks when she says Laurel is Ollie's soulmate. (I say Ollie and not Oliver on purpose)

 

Great Question there.

I think she is a very poor public speaker as is evident by her many gaffes. So no matter what you are gonna ask, it will be dealt with either indignation or incoherence.

 

Case in point: last July, at CTV upfronts she said that Laurel's got this and she's gonna beat Felicity at it ( I have no idea at what she would beat Felicity because they interacted for a total of 76 seconds during the whole season). In addition, she called Felicity a comic relief character multiple times. In another con, she insulted Jared Padelecki's wife Genvieve (who played Ruby 2.0 in SPN) when she was asked which Ruby she found better (her response was did someone play that character after me and I don't care, whatever!). Another time she was asked about Felicity and she insulted the person asking that question about going and reading the comics (she should know that apart from keeping the name Oliver Queen and the fact that he was a billionaire turned vigilante who lost his fortune, everything else is different from the comics universe). Another time she was asked about her colleagues and she could not finish one sentence properly because she genuinely could not say nice things about her colleagues. She has been in the con tours through the summer she has been telling everyone that she will be Canary (he justification was that she's got the jacket now). EPs at TCA says she will just be a lawyer. Does she even know what she talks about half the time

She is a PR nightmare and I am surprised that CW PR has not reined her in. Or perhaps they let her be because her character tanked otherwise.

[BkWurm1]

I think gaffe is an accurate way to describe a lot of her answers. It seems like she's trying to be flippant or funny or just breezy and confidant, but so often it comes out sounding harsh or thoughtless or dismissive. (Or a combo of all three). It feels like her people know she comes off sounding bad since they don't allow people to record her summer con interviews.

I guess if I could ask a question to KC, it would be an explanation for why she doesn't allow the recordings. If I was to ask a question about her character, it would be "Other than the jacket route, what direction does she see Laurel going?"

Edited July 19, 2014 by BkWurm1

[TanyaKay]

I think gaffe is an accurate way to describe a lot of her answers. It seems like she's trying to be flippant or funny or just breezy and confidant, but so often it comes out sounding harsh or thoughtless or dismissive. (Or a combo of all three). It feels like her people know she comes off sounding bad since they don't allow people to record her summer con interviews.

I guess if I could ask a question to KC, it would be an explanation for why she doesn't allow the recordings. If I was to ask a question about her character, it would be "Other than the jacket route, what direction does she see Laurel going?"

 

Yes, you are right. I was trying to be kind but she is thoughtless, rude and dismissive. Honestly, the whole spiel about how the make up crew thought she looked amazing in Caity Lotz's mask and wig was bordering on extreme levels of jealousy and envy and she was not even hiding. It was cringe inducing; I was dying with second hand embarrassment.

 

Yes, her people do not allow recording but should they also try to not rein in her responses and coach her to say the right thing. That would be a better approach rather than putting the gag order on people attending the cons. She would not be able to do that at comic con because it would be an official DC/CW/WB panel with the whole cast and producers so we will get to see some more of her gems.

 

The question that I would like to ask her is why does she think that kicking ass is the only way to be a smart, strong and independent woman because she always seems to waiting for canary to happen to make her badass. Why does she think she needs leather and fishnets to be kickass, why in her opinion her civilian avatar of Laurel can't be badass enough for her. I mean we are told that she is physically capable (though she cries we cant do it Ollie at the drop of a hat) and she is this super duper lawyer which should've been wicked enough for anyone, why not for her?

[BkWurm1]

Yes, you are right. I was trying to be kind but she is thoughtless, rude and dismissive

 

Lol, I was trying also to be kind and say that she comes off as thoughtless, rude and dismissive since I really can't believe that she intends to come off that way.  I really am trying not to judge her for her gaffes because I personally have done the foot in mouth thing while trying to be funny or cool too many times to not sympathize.  You get caught up in answering or responding to the direct question or comment and you forget the wider implication of what you are saying.  I get to take stuff back and beg forgiveness but that's because I get called on it right away. 

 

Her people probably aren't doing her any service in not being more outspoken in how she can come off, but they might be more interested in keeping their jobs than risking irritating the source of the paycheck.  No recordings seems to me damage control but if I'm wrong, then that's what I'd like to be told, what other reason would there be for forbidding it when lots of bigger stars have no issue with it at all. 

 

All that said, I cringed a thousand times when she decided Diggle out of everyone should look after her dog since what, he was the servant?  Sigh.    And the mask thing too, yeah, that seemed like the hair and make up people telling the "star" what she wants to hear. 

[Sakura12]

Cassidy does realize that it was more than just looking fit that made Sara/CL a believable Black Canary right? That was a bonus, along with her being able to do some of her own stunts. Sara was likeable, respectful and nice to others, was actually shown to be caring (like taking in an orphan because she promised a guy she met for 5 minutes she would) and not just told she was nice. We were actually told nothing about Sara besides she betrayed her sister to sleep with Oliver, everything else we learned as we got to know her and the actress that played her showed vulnerability while also being a badass. The characters and writers are always telling us how awesome and compassionate Laurel was and that was rarely shown on screen. 

 

Looking fit is good and all, but it's not what makes the Black Canary a hero. She needs to make Laurel likable first and foremost. So she needs to stop focusing on how may push ups she can do and how good she looks in the Canary costume and work on the character of Laurel. After that the rest will follow. 

[icandigit]

Some of her responses to the questions I've heard about made it seem like she hasn't really thought the character through. Which seems weird for an actress. If she did, maybe she could advocate better for her character with the eps and at the cons, instead of I was promised black canary. I kinda wonder if some of her bad performances in the 2nd season were some weird tactic to get what she wants. This whole thing with her and this show just comes off as strange. Hopefully things will improve.

Edited July 20, 2014 by icandigit

[statsgirl]

 

Some of her responses to the questions I've heard about made it seem like she hasn't really thought the character through. Which seems weird for an actress. I

I think what her characterization of Laurel, her comments on the show and her replies to questions have in common is a lack of empathy, a lack of the ability to put herself in someone else's shoes.  She tends to play a single note for Laurel in her scenes rather than nuance, she talks about comics! when asked questions about Laurel's future rather than thinking what she herself would like for the character, she works best with actors like PB who spend lots of time planning their scenes and getting into character, and her dismissal of the Australian questioner with "read the comics" was pretty bad.  When asked about Laurel's relationship with Sara, she talks about how she can understand them because of her own relationship with her sisters.   It seems like she has a hard time putting herself in someone else's shoes and adjusting to changing circumstances.

 

 

All that said, I cringed a thousand times when she decided Diggle out of everyone should look after her dog since what, he was the servant?  Sigh.

I could kinda  understand that, that Diggle is the ex-military protection guy so if he looked after her dog, no hard would come to the dog.  (It does minimize who Diggle is as a character though (see above re empathy).  What had me cringing was her story of Manu Bennett trying out Slade things and asking the make-up people what they thought and the impression that she found it wrong and distasteful.  He seems like an extroverted guy so his way of getting his character would be different than hers.  It also struck me the wrong way because Bennett was doing a much better job with his character than she was doing with hers so don't judge.

Edited July 20, 2014 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

Her answers seem to reflect her acting choices. For all she talks about creating backstories for the Lance family, I'm gonna say that is Blackthorne's doing.  I will maintain until it's disproven that she shows up, reads her lines and that's it.

[mstaken]

Some of her responses to the questions I've heard about made it seem like she hasn't really thought the character through. Which seems weird for an actress.

 

I definitely know what you're saying, but for me an even bigger problem is that it feels like the *writers* haven't thought the character through. At all.  Seriously, throughout the entire series Laurel has, IMO, ranged from totally undefined to really inconsistently defined. I'm not sure even the best actresses out there---and lord knows I wouldn't put Katie Cassidy in this category---could do much with this terrible role. It's true that certain actresses can make equally blah and even inconsistent roles at least a little bit more likable and sympathetic than KC has, but I put most of the blame on the writers for creating such a fast-forward-worthy mess :) 

[catrox14]

I'm of the opinion that they wanted to make her a complicated character who both loved and hated Oliver, was a defender of justice and confused by love, maybe not perfect but not the worst either which is why I think it was back and forth. That takes a really strong actor who can emote and and give us more beyond the page as to why Laurel would be so back and forth. More angst underneath, more internal stuff. But IMHO, Cassidy couldn't pull it off. Then with Rickards showing  up to steal the show unexpectedly, they started throwing everything out there for something to stick. Mileage varies widely I know:)

[statsgirl]

The writers haven't really thought any character through. CL said that she and SA had to create a backstory for Sara and Oliver on the island to have their interactions make sense.  Diggle has a family now because DR and the actress playing Lyla created that chemistry with each other, and Felicity was nothing but a two scene, one episode character till EBR made her who she is.  I can't imagine what Susanna Thompson thought when she got her scripts.

 

I think part of the problem is that they had a plan for Laurel but when they saw the episodes on screen, they realized it wasn't going to work.

 

One of the reasons Laurel seems like she's ping-ponging so much is because KC plays only one note at a time.  If she played Laurel conflicted, angry at Oliver but still drawn towards him and mad at herself that she is, the story would have made more sense.

 

ETA:  or what catrox14 said.

Edited July 20, 2014 by statsgirl

[slayer2]

With all the different Sams out there including Lucifer, oddly enough, JP never portrayed an alternate version of Sam during s3 which was the only season Cassidy played Ruby. JP was all Sam all the time in s3. I thought KC did a really good job flipping in an instant from Ruby to Lilith in one scene that lasted about 10 minutes. But overall Ruby was not a layered character like Sam or Dean or even Bela during s3, but in spite of that Cassidy gave her some personality. I would have liked to see her bring half the personality she had with Ruby to Laurel.

Building a good character is not just a function of the writing. It's a collaboration between the actor, the writers and the director, but when you have shifting storylines for the same character, the actor needs to, IMO, do what they can to make that character either likeable or hateable or at minimum watchable because of something internal they bring to the forefront.

Actors like Thompson, Blackthorne, Holland, Amell, Ackles, Padalecki, and Cassidy during her Ruby days, despite at times questionable writing with terrible lines to be said, manage to engage me and make FEEL something for or about the character be it anger, sadness, sympathy, empathy, what have you, so even when they utter some of the tripe that is written for them, I can ignore the bad line(unless that line flat out destroys continuity and canon, I'm looking at you SPN) and focus on the what the actor is really doing with said line. And sadly, I just do not get that from Cassidy with her portrayal of Laurel.

I think season 3 will be an improvement all around. It sounds like the writers have finally found a way to incorporate everyone without stepping on character's toes.

[TanyaKay]

 

All that said, I cringed a thousand times when she decided Diggle out of everyone should look after her dog since what, he was the servant?  Sigh.    And the mask thing too, yeah, that seemed like the hair and make up people telling the "star" what she wants to hear. 

 

I kinda filtered out that David Ramsey bit because it was downright disgraceful.

You having a foot in mouth disease is okay but a person whose job is to be in public eye and she has been at it since she was 16, this kind of negligence is criminal. You don't have to be warm and fuzzy and funny because not everyone is that Jimmy Fallon and Ellen kinda person who becomes your best friend in 90 seconds but at least be courteous and professional.

 

I don't think the hair and make up people told her anything, she was just making it up. After all they are not her employees but employees of CW or whatever production house that hired them. I think they take their revenge by giving her clumpy mascara look in every episode. This is my theory and I am gonna stick to it :)

[slayer2]

Hey Bkwrm I felt Laurel propped Felicity all through the season (2) as Felicity and Olicity got all the huge beats and Laurel seemed very much a character that was placed to juxtapose the growing relationship between Felicity and Oliver.

Particularly the finale where Laurel was woefully used and mainly existed as a way to underscore the new found love Oliver had for Felicity and as a red herring for Slade.

Laurel even had an occasion this season where Felicity had to tell Oliver to handle her so they could get back to business.

As settled and defined a role as Felicity was creating in Oliver's life, Laurel was written just the opposite. For Felicity to go up Laurel had to go down and that's what they did, diminished her role to that of a recurring character so that Felicity could step in as lead.

That is how I see Laurel propping Felicity this season. Everything Laurel did seemed a plot contrivance to either fortify Ollie's relationship with Felicity or to fortify Ollie's relationship with Sara and by extension Team Arrow. So that was my feeling as a new viewer on the propping and what I felt was entirely random, sporadic writing for a character they clearly only wanted to use as a plot device for season 2.

[wonderwall]

IDK @slayer2, I think that there's a difference between actively using a character to prop up another, and just failing to write a character properly and incorporate them into the plot. I think Laurel falls into the latter category and in no way does that have to do with Felicity because Felicity was on her own separate journey throughout the season. Did the failure of writing Laurel help prop Felicity? I guess you could say that it made her more popular because people just didn't like Laurel, but I'm 100% certain that this was not a conscious effort by the writers and EPs. 

[BkWurm1]

Over on page 21 of the Relationship thread (second post from the bottom of the page) a very in depth review of every interaction Laurel and Felicity have ever had is posted.  I used it to try and bring them to my mind when I was trying to think of anytime Laurel was used to make Felicity specifically look better.  Apart from the time Laurel was "drunk" (poisoned but we assumed drunk) and she told Oliver to fire Felicity and hire her instead, I didn't pick up on anything and technically, everybody looked better than Laurel when she was drunk and spouting nonsense, not specifically Felicity.  

 

I think we have different meanings for prop up.  The way I'm used to interpreting it is when one character does or says things that directly support or make another look good.  Sometimes it is as simple as saying "Oh, you and male lead are so made for each other!"  Other times it's when a direct contrast can be drawn, like when one refuses to listen even though it's out of character and the other has all the time in the world. 

 

I think Laurel's character was brought low, but not with the intention of making Felicity look good in  comparison, but in an attempt (a misguided one IMO) to build Laurel back up.  The whole give her an island moment.  I don't think it was an effective arc due to lots of reasons but I don't think Felicity was one of them.  Laurel and Felicity just didn't interact enough in the whole season for me to ever think one was written a specific way due to the other or vice versa. 

Laurel even had an occasion this season where Felicity had to tell Oliver to handle her so they could get back to business.

 

 Were you thinking of this? 

 

S02E04 – At some work party, Felicity is talking to Oliver when Blood and Laurel interrupt them.  Laurel greets Oliver, but everyone ignores Felicity like she doesn’t exist, so she leaves.  A little while later, Felicity sees Laurel talking to Oliver and suddenly realises something about the “woman in the mask”, so she interrupts them:
Felicity: Um, excuse me, Oliver, may I talk to you for a second?  It’s urgent.
Oliver: Yeah.
Felicity (to Laurel): You can have him back in a minute.
Laurel gives her one of her little up-and-down Looks.
Oliver (to Laurel):  Excuse us.
She leaves.

 

 

The only other interaction they had together was the not drunk rant, the dismissal in the Arrow Cave, the complaint about THEM going, and then a couple scenes they shared but didn't interact.

 

I guess I can see how someone could view this above scene as Felicity indicating Laurel was taking up Oliver while there was important Arrow business a foot but that's not how I viewed it before.   

 

I think that Felicity got better writing than Laurel in the first half of the season while Laurel faded to the background but then the mid section and the early back half, Felicity was hardly there, getting no more than a line or two in an episode. A lot more attention was being focused on Laurel during that time (though I still don't think the writing was that strong) but I never saw Laurel as being the reason Felicity and Diggle basically vanished.  The writers just had too many plates to juggle effectively IMO. 

 

I think Laurel was used to prop up Sara and Oliver when they had Sara reveal Laurel got her grounded and kept her from going to a part when she knew Sara had a crush on Oliver.  And I think they used Laurel to prop up both Sara and Oliver with that absurd "your so beautiful and full of life" speech.  I think they used Quentin to prop up Laurel with he gushed over her planting a BLINKING bug/hacker device in Blood's office. 

 

I think Oliver propped up Laurel when he claimed any of the times that Laurel knew him better than anyone (after the show spent the season showing how little she did know Oliver)  I think Felicity propped up Barry by being all starry eyed over him (he's cute, but not that cute - still the new show must be pimped!)  Oh well. 

 

I have real concerns that the show will have Felicity prop up Laurel in season 3, perhaps talking about how nice and sweet and kind ect, ect Laurel is when I as a viewer just don't believe that Felicity would actually have been around Laurel enough to know this right or wrong.  They already had her do it a bit in the first season with her "Gorgeous Laurel" comment when she said she knew who Laurel was.  It worked because Felicity has filter issues but it is a practice that IMO does not serve story telling very well, it's a bad short cut.  A tell not show kind of thing. 

 

Like when out of the blue on Smallville they had characters listing off qualities and traits Lois had never displayed (She's like a pit bull on a pant leg, once she starts digging, she never stops - not only had we seen her stop digging ALL THE TIME , most of the time she wasn't even curious enough to start - very frustrating)  

 

Anyway, hopefully Laurel in the next season can break the cycle of being isolated in her own story apart from the rest of the bunch.  What I wouldn't give if they instituted a mandatory team lunch meeting at least once a month. 

[Ceylon5]

Adding to wonderwall and BkWurm1's comments, I think the first test for propping is this:  if Laurel had been left out of the story entirely (e.g. if she'd been written out at the end of season 1), would it have affected Felicity's story at all (or vice versa)?  The answer is clearly no, because Laurel and Felicity had practically nothing to do with each other all season and their story arcs were completely separate and independent of each other.  Either one of them not being there would have affected Oliver's story (which is a different issue), but not each other's.

 

Undoubtedly Laurel's story was badly written, but this can't be blamed on some other character that her character had nothing to do with.  That is a problem within itself.  Showing Laurel in a bad light was most definitely not needed (nor intended, I'm sure) to make Oliver and Felicity's relationship work (if anything, it would have a negative affect on their relationship by casting a negative light on Oliver by association); I never saw anything that Laurel did as having anything to do with Felicity at all.  Laurel's character may have become a plot contrivance, but that's the fault of the writers, who don't know what to do with her to make her work properly in the overall plot. Her and Oliver clearly don't work as a couple, so fitting her in elsewhere and making her relevant has become a bit of a Sisyphean task that they're failing at.

 

Also, the fact that one person's screen-time increases while another's decreases isn't propping; it's a simple matter of logistics. Felicity is part of Oliver's main storyline, so it's easier to write her into scenes; Laurel has her own independent storyline, which means that the writers have to take time away from Oliver's storyline at times to tell her story.  This gives her less time on screen, but she gets more personal character development.  The fact that the development they did was poorly executed cannot be blamed on any other character.  I don't think anything they did with Laurel this season propped up any other character.  On the contrary, what they did with her actually brought down not only her character, but Oliver's and Sara's as well.  Possibly her parents too.  Is that called anti-propping?  I think it would be fallacious reasoning to say that because she didn't also bring Felicity down that somehow she propped her up by not anti-propping her along with everyone else.  And that was a sentence I never thought I'd write!

[Password]

During the first 9 or 10 episodes of season 2, it seemed rather that the writers and EPs had decided to go in a different direction with the characters and the story by using more of Felicity. Then it seemed abruptly ended during the Lance arc, through Suicide Squad and BoP.

I certainly hope it doesn't happen in season 3 because I'm interested to see how Laurel and Felicity will interact. (Mostly I want to see Dig throw shade).

I agree with @BkWurm1 that it seemed more like Felicity propped others for various reasons. The writers need to make Laurel relevant to the main story that includes Oliver because I often felt she was polarised by her storyline. But at the same time I don't want her in the Arrow cave.

Not much to ask right? Right.

[SonofaBiscuit]

As settled and defined a role as Felicity was creating in Oliver's life, Laurel was written just the opposite. For Felicity to go up Laurel had to go down and that's what they did, diminished her role to that of a recurring character so that Felicity could step in as lead.

 

 

Like BkWurm1, I saw this more as the EPs tearing Laurel down as part of her "island" than propping.  I'm pretty sure that the EPs even confirmed in several interviews that this is what they were doing...I remember that they kept saying things were going to get much worse before they got better.  I don't have any sources on that and don't plan on finding the interviews, but that's just how I interpreted Laurel's storyline, anyways.  I never saw Felicity as propping Laurel because the two pretty much never interacted, and their storylines were completely independent of each other.  I feel like Laurel could have been completely removed from the show (and she practically was in the first half), and nothing would have changed between Felicity and Oliver, because their storyline was more about setting Felicity up as a partner and love interest.

Edited July 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[icandigit]

What they did with Laurel in the final episodes really makes me think someone on the writing staff secretly hates this character.Or maybe they couldn't find a reason for her to be in the story besides kidnapping. It seems like they should have let her give Oliver the info about Blood and then maybe had her working in her own sphere(government office or something) and then the kidnapping. But then I'm one the few people that cringed through the Sara/Laurel scenes. All that stuff with team arrow and oliver just came off kinda forced and weird to me too.

[SonofaBiscuit]

What they did with Laurel in the final episodes really makes me think someone on the writing staff secretly hates this character.Or maybe they couldn't find a reason for her to be in the story besides kidnapping. It seems like they should have let her give Oliver the info about Blood and then maybe had her working in her own sphere(government office or something) and then the kidnapping. But then I'm one the few people that cringed through the Sara/Laurel scenes. All that stuff with team arrow and oliver just came off kinda forced and weird to me too.

 

Yes, several times throughout the season, I said (to myself, of course) "Oh Laurel, the writers hate you."  There's such a weird disconnect between how she is written and how the EPs believe the character is being presented.  She's supposed to be strong, but she's damseled all of the time; she knows Oliver like she knows her own name, but he was a serial cheater who fathered a child with some other girl (this made me wonder...hmm...maybe you don't know your own name---maybe you were adopted or something); she's supposedly smart, but she doesn't lock her doors or check the peephole before inviting strangers in; the law should be sacred to her, but she goes around blackmailing people and shoots a guy in the back several times, etc.  So I have to wonder, is this intentional or what?

Edited July 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[catrox14]

IMO they tore down Laurel because they wanted to rebuild her into something else completely and that story is completely separate and apart from Felicity to this point in the story.  And they didn't tear down Laurel to build up Felicity because Felicity didn't need building up because her character progressed organically throughout the show. The only thing they share in their Venn diagram of Starling City is Oliver and those relationships are separate and have no crossover meaning at this point. I just don't really understand the argument on any level that Felicity impacts Laurel in any meaningful way unless it's purely because Felicity is a potential threat to Laurel's relationship with Oliver which we don't really even know what that means at this point.

 

IMO Laurel and Felicity have so little interaction that I don't think either one was the prop for the other.

Edited July 21, 2014 by catrox14

[slayer2]

What they did with Laurel in the final episodes really makes me think someone on the writing staff secretly hates this character.Or maybe they couldn't find a reason for her to be in the story besides kidnapping. It seems like they should have let her give Oliver the info about Blood and then maybe had her working in her own sphere(government office or something) and then the kidnapping. But then I'm one the few people that cringed through the Sara/Laurel scenes. All that stuff with team arrow and oliver just came off kinda forced and weird to me too.

I almost have no doubt in my mind that someone seriously hates her character, they just go way too far in terms of the dumb shit they make her say or do, it's like the person writing isn't reading all the scripts she was in, prior to writing her.

 

Bkwrm we might have differing views about propping, tis' possible. The moment I was referring to with Felicity telling Ollie to see to Laurel was the poisoned drink thing when Laurel appeared drunk, that to me was propping of Felicity because Oliver looked like he didn't really want to deal with it, Felicity basically told him to and once he got up there he handed her off to someone else to take care off and went back to Arrow business. To me that was like saying "Here comes this stupid character again who is taking away from the truly important female lead and the duties she/they have therein", and Team Arrow's behaviour seemed to support that. 

 

As well the finale when the only reason Laurel existed was mainly to underscore Oliver's love for Felicity was MASSIVE propping IMO. Haha you thought he loved this girl, jokes! This is the true love of his life his equal in every way and Laurel is the helpless victim that he barely could bother to rescue until it factored into his plan to destroy Slade. Once he found out Laurel was kidnapped he basically shrugged, but when Felicity was kidnapped (even though it went alongside his plans) he looked like he'd just swallowed his heart.

 

Also, when Laurel gave him the information and offered to help and he basically told her to fuck off. It only served to underscore how close Team Arrow was and how she would never be a part of it, it certainly wasn't a scene to underscore Lauriver closeness or Laurel's willingness to help. It was basically saying "We don't need you, GTFO" then she gets kidnapped and he can't even bother to rescue her until the real love of his life is in danger. *sigh

 

To use a Smallville reference as you so aptly did, it reminds me of when Lana was made to look even dumber than usual when Clark kept lying to her and him and Chloe were busy saving the world and ultimately had to tell "stupid Lana" to fuck off whilst they were working when in truth no one can be truly useful when they don't have all the facts. Lana was often thrown in as an unwitting obstacle to their goals because she didn't know who Clark was and too often got in the way because of it. I feel the same for Laurel and it bothers me. Of course I'm in the camp that he should have told everyone he loved straight away when Slade started targeting them and his 'pwecious secweth' obsession was retarded but hey, who listens to me.

 

As a Laurel fan I can't see how any of this would make a fan of Felicity worry about her future in season three. Even from what we've heard in the news (spoiler tags in case news articles are spoilers 

Laurel will be working with Team Arrow through her office alone whilst Oliver and hunky Brandon Routh (another superhero or villain) fight over Felicity. They mentioned something about Laurel getting a love interest but didn't say anything specific. Sara is coming back for at least 3 episodes and CL can be seen wearing the Black Canary costume.

 

 

As a Laurel fan all of these things don't breed much hope, but I try to stay positive about it because it seems like they're going for a more balanced approach to the show. I just want to watch all these characters (with the exception of Thea) fully fleshed out without propping or diminishing one another. I'd like to see Laurel on screen in a way that's powerful, self-possessed and strong like she was in season 1. 

 

I want the Laurel that wanted to help people and did everything she could to do so, the Laurel that reassured Tommy with smiles and pizza when he was cut-off, the Laurel that worked with the Arrow to stop the cities criminals. I want THAT Laurel back, I don't want to see her as the butt of Team Arrow's jokes or just another thing they have to worry about like *eyeroll "Here comes Laurel again". Why should she look drunk and stupid just to wipe out her as a potential love interest for Ollie and pave the way for Sara and/or Felicity. There are other ways to do that, people move on and grow apart, there's no reason Laurel has to look like an incompetent lush to Felicity's competent savvy "perfect" everything. There's room for everybody on this canvas (even Thea). /END RANT

 

It's just frustrating for me as one of the few people who love this character, I want to see my favourites do well and if not well then like Faith on Buffy I want to see logical, chronological and measured reasons for why they aren't doing well, not just see them used as a plot device (which they've been used for a million times over.) *sigh

Edited July 21, 2014 by slayer2

[SonofaBiscuit]

Why should she look drunk and stupid just to wipe out her as a potential love interest for Ollie and pave the way for Sara and/or Felicity. There are other ways to do that, people move on and grow apart, there's no reason Laurel has to look like an incompetent lush to Felicity's competent savvy "perfect" everything. There's room for everybody on this canvas (even Thea).

 

 

I guess that I interpreted Laurel's journey differently.  To me, Laurel being an alcoholic and a drug abuser had nothing to do with Felicity/Sara whatsoever and everything to do with the EPs deciding that alcohol and drug addiction were going to be Laurel's "island."  The drugs and alcohol were meant to tear Laurel down until she hit rock bottom, and then she would emerge a stronger person, ready to take on the Black Canary role in season three.  Here's a TVLine interview where they discuss this:

http://tvline.com/2014/01/14/arrow-season-2-spoilers-oliver-versus-slade-laurel-felicity-diggle/

 

Per Andrew Kreisburg:

 

These next four episodes are also, in a way, a big Laurel chapter because we really get to see Laurel’s drug use come back to bite her. She hits rock bottom and Katie Cassidy is just delivering the most amazing performance.

 

 

Also from the same interview:

 

TVLINE | That’s good to hear, because one of my questions was how you planned to make Laurel relevant to this next wave of storytelling, beyond possibly dating Sebastian.

You know, it’s been somewhat hard, I think, for Katie and us to hear some of the criticisms of her character because we don’t do anything without thinking about it. And one of the great things about having as much success as we had in Season 1 was the freedom to allow things to unfold the way that they should. We’ve always had a fantastic plan for Laurel’s character, and I know that there’s impatience out there in the world to see her “strap on the fish nets” [as Black Canary] but everything we’re doing is all about leading up to that in a the way that we feel keeps it the most realistic and grounded. To take somebody who is a public interest lawyer and turned her into a super hero… you have to go through the paces. So this season we’ve really been putting her through her paces. We always think of these things as chapters, and these next four episodes are really about Laurel. She’s taking center stage as she begins to suspect that Sebastian is not exactly who he seems.

 

 

So I guess that Laurel had to look drunk and stupid because she was supposed to be drunk since she was being "put through her paces."

Edited July 21, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[icandigit]

Yeah. That finale was brutal.I'll never understand why they didn't use her public service position and have her helping the from that stand point. The city was on fire, seems like a all hands on deck situation.Seems like the DA would have called her into work. She could have been the one to find her body(didn't she die) and hold down the fort. Her kidnapping was inevitable given the circumstances but, they could of given her a better role in the finale.

[Sakura12]

Laurel's drinking/drug problem being her "island" was poorly executed and acted. They barely showed her suffering and no long lasting effects came of her problem. Everything was all cured and solved for her by the end of the season including the unearned jacket hand off. While they continue to show us Oliver and Sara's suffering is far from over. Sara lost her soul back to the devil she almost killed herself to get away from and Oliver may have won the battle against Slade but it cost him his mother. What did Laurel lose? Not one thing. She got everything back. That wasn't an island, it was a selfish pity party that afterwards turned out even better than before for her. 

 

If they wanted that to be her island, then show a disheveled Laurel trying to score drugs on the streets, show her passed out in a gutter, show her actually being arrested and Quentin bailing her out of the drunk tank. Show me that she actually had a serious problem. What I saw was Laurel looking and acting exactly the same as she always did. Her being poisoned by the bad guy had nothing to do with her "island" problem, that actually part of Sara's suffering of her family being in danger because of the life she led. Plus that was barely a problem after the fact, like everything that happens to Laurel. Shoots a guy, she's fine. Has a drinking problem, 2 days spent in an off-screen rehab, all better, enough to sit in bars all the time without even looking like she wants a drink. Lost her job, blackmail's the DA to get it back, DA gets killed so no consequences will effect her. Little sister goes back to the life of killer, smiles like a loon because she can now take her awesome life of being a super hero. 

 

There seems to be a huge disconnect between what the writers think they are doing for Laurel and what is being portrayed on screen. So either the writers hate Laurel or it's the acting. 

[dtissagirl]

I admit that I found it hilarious because I live to mock, but also -- when Nyssa tranq'ed Laurel, it actually took me right out of the story. It felt like the writers had no idea what to do with Laurel until it was time for her to get kidnapped by Slade's minion, so, you know, if she's unconscious, they don't have to worry about writing her.

 

I don't think Laurel was put down to prop anyone else up, because IMO character propping has to be intentional in the writing. I definitely saw Laurel being used to prop Sara/Oliver when she was giving them relationship advice, but I never saw them intentionally using Laurel to prop either Felicity or Team Arrow. But then again, I wasn't comparing Laurel's storyline to the other characters. Now that I'm looking at it from that standpoint, she falls short while everyone else evolved.

 

What I did think was intentional was that Laurel got replaced by Felicity as Oliver's love interest, and by Sara as the Canary. I completely get why it happened in the love interest stance, we've been over it in several threads now -- lack of chemistry, awful backstory, etc. But I'm honestly still not sure exactly why they thought it was a good idea to take the journey to become BC from Laurel in S2. And not only that, but instead of giving Sara the journey, they made her a full-fledged already journey'ed Canary. Stripping Laurel of LI took her from Oliver's orbit, sure, but stripping her of the hero journey ended up taking away much of her narrative relevance.

[Starfish35]

I'm honestly still not sure exactly why they thought it was a good idea to take the journey to become BC from Laurel in S2.

I've wondered this often myself. The only thing I can think is that....well, they said one time that they're not good at patience. I don't remember how they worded it, but basically it was something like "why wait for that? Let's do it now." And so I think (and this is just a theory) they decided they really wanted Black Canary now, but they knew that they couldn't just dump Laurel into the role overnight. So instead of being patient and developing Laurel to the point of Black Canary over a couple of seasons, we got a season of Sara who can be Black Canary now while Laurel takes the slow road (episode wise). They just didn't think through all the ramifications of that choice, like, what happens if Sara becomes more popular, and, what do we do with Laurel in the meantime? :/

Edited July 21, 2014 by Starfish35

[slayer2]

 

I admit that I found it hilarious because I live to mock, but also -- when Nyssa tranq'ed Laurel, it actually took me right out of the story. It felt like the writers had no idea what to do with Laurel until it was time for her to get kidnapped by Slade's minion, so, you know, if she's unconscious, they don't have to worry about writing her.

This! They really couldn't figure out what to do with her so they just knocked her out. Can we call this the Xander syndrome? As I recall it happened to him quite a lot on Buffy in and around big battles.

 

To me, giving the BC story to CL (whom I love BTW) was the equivalent of bringing Lois Lane onto Smallville in Season 4. What ever was the point of that? Pointless and impossible when you already have Lana as a love interests and Chloe on the waiting list. Same thing with Laurel, it seemed they were gong a triangle route with Laurel/Oliver/Felicity then Sara came on and they both got shoved out of the way and Ollie ended up looking icky again because he was back to boinking the other sister. Why do this? It's like someone told them to make preparations to write Laurel out but then they didn't end up doing it. What on earth could they possibly be thinking? Shooting themselves in the foot is a gross understatement. I can only hope they've got it sorted for season 3, and I was feeling sort of confident about that until you posted the interview about them "always having a plan for Laurel". How can this be their plan? The show hurts my brain sometimes, not Smallville pain but pain enough.

Edited July 21, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

I think they've set Laurel up to go three possible ways: she can become BC, she can go dark, and she can become Manhunter/some other DC heroine. I think they've set her up for any one of those roads, only they haven't figured out which one she's going to take yet (seriously, what was with the "once you let the darkness inside" blackmail speech? She was already in recovery at that point). I think that's why sometimes her writing is so inconsistent - they're keeping too many paths open for her and having her act certain ways so they can say, "See? We intended for her to go here!" when she finally goes down one of them.

Edited July 21, 2014 by apinknightmare

[slayer2]

They really need to pick one or she's going to end up like some terrible kung-fun Lana/superLana hybrid. I'm not opposed to BC, dark or Manhunter, is there a Dark version of Black Canary like that opposite Spiderman guy? I just want to see her do something and do it consistently, they seemed to have a clear path for her in season 1, she had heart AND purpose. Why did they fuck that up? They could even have sent her through her paces with Tommy and still made her BC, it doesn't have to be the incarnation where she's with Ollie. They could still have a romance with Oliver and Felicity while Laurel is an integral part of Team Arrow on the Government side. In fact if she wasn't directly in his orbit and he was seeing someone else it would give her time to train for Canary. It can't be this hard to write for a character, it just can't be. 

Edited July 21, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

They really need to pick one or she's going to end up like some terrible kung-fun Lana/superLana hybrid. I'm not opposed to BC, dark or Manhunter, is there a Dark version of Black Canary like that opposite Spiderman guy? I just want to see her do something and do it consistently, they seemed to have a clear path for her in season 1, why did they fuck that up, they could even have sent her through her paces with Tommy and still made her BC, it doesn't have to be the incarnation where she's with Ollie. It can't be this hard to write for a character, it just can't be.

 

I think they changed her path because the general consensus was that a large part of the audience didn't like her. So now she's all over the place while the writers try to find something that 'sticks'. Bringing Sara in was the absolute worst thing they could've done to her though. Ugh.

[slayer2]

Agreed, they made it a million times worse, and everybody in that triangle came out looking stupid as fuck.

[Sakura12]

Whatever "darkness" Laurel thinks she has, Sara is 10x darker (if a Russian mobster calls you scary, that says a lot). A canary was symbol of warning to save miners and Sara's actual dark history make her better suited to go by Black Canary. 

 

However with them not being able to commit to their plan it look like they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They are keeping Sara fans happy by having her show up in the BC outfit while stringing Laurel fans along with promises that she'll BC. Are they waiting for us to hate both characters then making Laurel BC? 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Sakura12

[SonofaBiscuit]

I actually think that Laurel is written pretty consistently but the EPs present her as something she definitely is not.  Laurel is written as manipulative (we find out she snatched Oliver up before Sara could and she blackmailed multiple people), she is a constant victim (always kidnapped, wondering why everyone leaves her), she doesn't accept responsibility for the things that happen to her (blaming the Arrow for Tommy getting killed, being outraged when she lost her job because of her drug usage), she's generally just mean (throwing an exploding glass at her dinner party, being awful to her dad when he tried to get her help for her alcohol/drug issues, not being very happy to find her sister alive), etc.  So, Laurel doesn't seem very nice to me, but she is consistently awful.

   

[slayer2]

I'm not blaming her at all for the tantrum at dinner, I would throw one too if my sister and ex-boyfriend were fucking AGAIN. In fact I did throw one in a similar situation. The entire dinner party was awkward and weird and a stupid idea and the triangle was tiresome IMO. They should have at least waited a full year before sharing Oliver around like a box of macarons. He's not that hot especially if this is the universe that Superman lives in. C'mon sisters, get off that ride, it's tired.

Edited July 21, 2014 by slayer2

[apinknightmare]

I'm not blaming her at all for the tantrum at dinner, I would throw one too if my sister and ex-boyfriend were fucking AGAIN. In fact I did throw one in a similar situation. The entire dinner party was awkward and weird and a stupid idea and the triangle was tiresome IMO. They should have at least waited a full year before sharing Oliver around like a box of macarons. He's not that hot especially if this is the universe that Superman lives in. C'mon sisters, get off that ride, it's tired.

 

That whole episode was a mess. Everyone was so OOC - you cannot tell me that Oliver and Sara, who hurt Laurel so badly in the past would've ever gone to that dinner together. Sara NEVER would've asked, and Oliver NEVER would've gone. Yeah, Oliver's a selfish a-hole at times, but even he isn't that stupid. It was all contrived so that "Emmy-worthy" (LOL) scene could take place in the hallway. And it's sad, because there were so many other believable ways they could've gotten there. This show kills me sometimes.

 

Oliver needs to detangle himself from the Lance sisters romantically. And they need to stop going back to that, damn.

[Starfish35]

Getting mad I could understand if that's all it was. Bringing Oliver to the dinner was stupid and I'm not going to pretend it wasn't (this is all part of the problem with the writers' need to have everything revolve around Oliver). But she had to humiliate Quentin on top of that, and there was no call for that.

On top of that, I already had zero patience with someone who, upon finding out her long lost sister is still alive, throws a glass of wine at her instead of hugging her for all she's worth.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Starfish35

[slayer2]

That whole episode was a mess. Everyone was so OOC - you cannot tell me that Oliver and Sara, who hurt Laurel so badly in the past would've ever gone to that dinner together. Sara NEVER would've asked, and Oliver NEVER would've gone. Yeah, Oliver's a selfish a-hole at times, but even he isn't that stupid. It was all contrived so that "Emmy-worthy" (LOL) scene could take place in the hallway. And it's sad, because there were so many other believable ways they could've gotten there. This show kills me sometimes.

 

Oliver needs to detangle himself from the Lance sisters romantically. And they need to stop going back to that, damn.

He can't be that good in bed. Tommy seems like he'd be better, more attentive. I can already picture Felicity giving Oliver pointers in the future.

IMO Laurel deserves to get laid by someone who isn't Oliver, Oliver's friend or having anything to do with Oliver or the Arrow. 

[Starfish35]

From the Spoilers thread:

So far, the only thing Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy has managed to have chemistry with is that magical jacket that her sister passed on to her.

A lot of people said that she had chemistry with Colin Donell's Tommy but I disagree, it was all Colin who was excellent in every scene that he did and had an outstanding chemistry with everyone he interacted with on the show, be it Cassidy, Amell, Willah Holland or Barrowman (still bitter that they made Willah his sister because I totally shipped Tommy & Thea). Cassidy was just as boring at her end in those scenes as she was with everyone else. I don't think any chemistry test would do wonders where Cassidy is concerned.

Actually, while I'm probably one of the last people to ever defend Laurel or Katie Cassidy, I actually disagree somewhat. It's definitely a "mileage may vary" situation, but, ironically, I thought KC had some of her best scenes of the season with Caity Lotz, when she wasn't hurling glasses that is. KC most of the time tends to come across to me as very stiff and artificial (such as her scene with Thea at Moira's funeral) but I thought her scenes with CL had a natural quality that really worked (even when the dialogue wasn't making much sense -the "pretty name" thing). I was shocked that I ended up liking Birds of Prey as much as I did, being the Laurel hater that I am. ;) If KC always had scenes with CL, I could see myself thawing toward her quite a bit.

Now the jacket passing scene...honestly I was just too infuriated by all the implications of the scene to be unbiased about the actors' chemistry.

I also think KC generally speaking works well with Paul Blackthorne, but not always. Their scene at the end of Broken Dolls, for example, I did not think worked at all, but I think that was more a matter of other issues - I thought her breakdown over Tommy came too quick storywise to be earned, and I just cannot with KC and crying scenes. But, as I said, YMMV.

The point being - theoretically, I think it might be possible to cast

a love interest for Laurel that KC has chemistry with. They would have to commit to it though, and not have Laurel going back and forth between new guy and Oliver like she did with Tommy - that would sabotage the whole thing.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Starfish35

[statsgirl]

Yeah. That finale was brutal.I'll never understand why they didn't use her public service position and have her helping the from that stand point. The city was on fire, seems like a all hands on deck situation.Seems like the DA would have called her into work. She could have been the one to find her body(didn't she die) and hold down the fort. Her kidnapping was inevitable given the circumstances but, they could of given her a better role in the finale.

There are first responders, and there are back-up people.  As a junior attorney,there is really nothing Laurel could have done to help the situation.  Quentin and his police force were out there fighting with Oliver, Sara and Nyssa and when they brought some criminals back in she could prosecute them but anything Laurel could have done would have slowed down the action. Suppose she did find Kate's body -- she was already dead, and not even a paramedic could have helped. If they had shown us that scene, I would have been complaining that Laurel was using up screentime that would have better gone to another character.

 

Getting kidnapped was necessary so that Slade could recreated the island scenario.

 

I've wondered this often myself. The only thing I can think is that....well, they said one time that they're not good at patience. I don't remember how they worded it, but basically it was something like "why wait for that? Let's do it now." And so I think (and this is just a theory) they decided they really wanted Black Canary now, but they knew that they couldn't just dump Laurel into the role overnight. So instead of being patient and developing Laurel to the point of Black Canary over a couple of seasons, we got a season of Sara who can be Black Canary now while Laurel takes the slow road (episode wise). They just didn't think through all the ramifications of that choice, like, what happens if Sara becomes more popular, and, what do we do with Laurel in the meantime? :/

I agree that few people would have bought Laurel as BC in season 2.  What they should have done is have Tommy's death as her island and start supporting the Arrow then.

 

Maybe they thought that bringing in Sara as the Canary would buy them some time, but they completely underestimated how much CL owned that role, and how very much harder it is to think of Laurel as the BC now.

 

I actually think that Laurel is written pretty consistently but the EPs present her as something she definitely is not.  Laurel is written as manipulative (we find out she snatched Oliver up before Sara could and she blackmailed multiple people), she is a constant victim (always kidnapped, wondering why everyone leaves her), she doesn't accept responsibility for the things that happen to her (blaming the Arrow for Tommy getting killed, being outraged when she lost her job because of her drug usage), she's generally just mean (throwing an exploding glass at her dinner party, being awful to her dad when he tried to get her help for her alcohol/drug issues, not being very happy to find her sister alive), etc.  So, Laurel doesn't seem very nice to me, but she is consistently awful.

Yes.  Laurel is very consistently and with nuance written as someone who doesn't mind sliding down the slippery slope of morals (even Diggle has a higher moral standard and he doesn't mind hurting his enemies) and who will first blame someone else when things go wrong.  The scene where she gives Sara relationship advice about Oliver is the only time I've found her written really out of character, but shortly afterwards she's treating Diggle and Felicity like servants so she's back in her groove again.

 

When they tell us in interviews how great she is and how caring, it feels like gas-lighting.  I think if they let her go dark or turn into Manhunter, it would do wonders for the character.

 

And please, give her a love interest who isn't Oliver.  I don't know if it was Colin Donnell himself or the fact that KC didn't try so hard with Tommy, but those were some of her best scenes.

Edited July 21, 2014 by statsgirl

[TanyaKay]

From the Spoilers thread:

Actually, while I'm probably one of the last people to ever defend Laurel or Katie Cassidy, I actually disagree somewhat. It's definitely a "mileage may vary" situation, but, ironically, I thought KC had some of her best scenes of the season with Caity Lotz, when she wasn't hurling glasses that is. KC most of the time tends to come across to me as very stiff and artificial (such as her scene with Thea at Moira's funeral) but I thought her scenes with CL had a natural quality that really worked (even when the dialogue wasn't making much sense -the "pretty name" thing). I was shocked that I ended up liking Birds of Prey as much as I did, being the Laurel hater that I am. ;) If KC always had scenes with CL, I could see myself thawing toward her quite a bit.

Now the jacket passing scene...honestly I was just too infuriated by all the implications of the scene to be unbiased about the actors' chemistry.

I also think KC generally speaking works well with Paul Blackthorne, but not always. Their scene at the end of Broken Dolls, for example, I did not think worked at all, but I think that was more a matter of other issues - I thought her breakdown over Tommy came too quick storywise to be earned, and I just cannot with KC and crying scenes. But, as I said, YMMV.

The point being - theoretically, I think it might be possible to cast

a love interest for Laurel that KC has chemistry with. They would have to commit to it though, and not have Laurel going back and forth between new guy and Oliver like she did with Tommy - that would sabotage the whole thing.

 

Well honestly, the minute Laurel decided to hand out love advice to Oliver and Sara in episode 15, I tuned out every conversation she has had with Sara and I think I FFwd through BoP because I just could not take Laurel reaching out to the bottle in the middle of a hostage situation and not recognizing her dimpled chin sister.

 

I am doing a first season rewatch and I think her scenes with her father were just as terrible as with anyone else. In every scene, she came out bratty and dismissive and those were her acting choices - even with the same dialogues, she could have come out as someone who is earnestly trying to argue with her dad even though she loves and respects him, but no, she was rude and dismissive.

Edited July 21, 2014 by TanyaKay

[Starfish35]

I can't claim to be the originator of this idea (I think someone here suggested it first), but lately I've been thinking about McKenna Hall, and how she is what the character of Laurel should have been (without the part about being shipped out of town of course). What do you all think? What if they'd dropped the toxic backstory and the dull lawyer bit and just had Laurel as a cop on the force who was chasing the Arrow? How do you think that would have worked?

(I actually liked McKenna a lot. Although I knew she and Oliver wouldn't last, I wouldn't have minded her staying longer.)

Edited July 21, 2014 by Starfish35