Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[wonderwall]

I think in the scene Oliver was annoyed with Laurel and Ollie was being grump Ollie and she was basically like, "I'm not on your team. I don't work for you." I don't think it was a jab at felicity or dig.

Incidentally Oliver was such a bag of hypocrisy in that episode.

 

Oliver annoyed me muchly in that episode, too. Hypocrisy isn't a good look

Edited September 18, 2015 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

Here's the quote:

 

Oliver: You cannot be serious.

Laurel: I am not on your team. I don't work for you.

Oliver: Exactly. You're untrained.

Laurel: Oh. And whose fault is that?

 

It was in 3x06.

 

ETA: Whoops, Delphi beat me to it. :)

Ah!  That's the one episode that I didn't see all of.  Heavy rain does bad things to satellite.  I recorded the rerun this summer but haven't been able to bring myself to watch it.  SIgh, now I have a reason. 

[Primal Slayer]

TBH I just remember being offended by that comment for Diggle and Felicity :p Otherwise I just would've let it go tbh. Maybe it's the way it was said? I mean Laurel's right, she didn't work for him. But that insinuated that Diggle and Felicity did and that they just mindlessly follow him. I thought that was wrong. LL wanted the full perks of being a part of the team without ever really being a part of it. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. But IMO that's not ASKING for a favor. She told Felicity she needed a favor and proceeded to tell her what it was. Felicity can you do me a favor? That's asking. 

 

Diggle told her to stay behind for good reason. "she was going regardless" -- that's exactly why I don't think she knows how to be a part of the team. She does what she wants. That's not what being a part of a team is about. 

To me that is just finding ways to dislike her. It's a no win situation. She says "I don't work for you" and some people hear "I'm not your lackey like Felicity and Diggle are" It's fine to not like her, but she said nothing wrong in these situations. 

 

And like I said, Felicity said she would call Laurel back, we never saw the rest of the conversation so that "thank you" you want from Laurel to Felicity may have been there just as Felicity never had to return her call.

[apinknightmare]

To me, the "Oh. And whose fault is that?" is the worst part of that exchange, haha. She and Oliver really are absolute assholes around each other. 

[wonderwall]

To me that is just finding ways to dislike her. It's a no win situation. She says "I don't work for you" and some people hear "I'm not your lackey like Felicity and Diggle are" It's fine to not like her, but she said nothing wrong in these situations. 

 

And like I said, Felicity said she would call Laurel back, we never saw the rest of the conversation so that "thank you" you want from Laurel to Felicity may have been there just as Felicity never had to return her call.

 

Meh I feel like I've been more than fair to LL. I don't try to put her in lose lose situations. I liked her in episode 1 despite her not inviting TA to Quentin's thing. I liked her interactions w/ Ray Palmer. I liked her scenes with Nyssa. I liked her holding that shark. Laurel as a lawyer is the best version of Laurel IMO. Laurel as a fighter/vigilante? I've had a lot more trouble accepting that. 

 

I'm just saying that LL needs to learn how to be on a team because she clearly doesn't know how. Her first introduction was terrible. Hopefully in S4 better handles how LL is on a team. 

 

IMO that's a mistake to leave a please/thank you off the screen. It makes LL look bad and demanding. It's the writers fault. ;

[SmallScreenDiva]

It would've been a nice gesture but she didn't have to reach out to them, she spent most of her time dealing with Oliver and this was more about him then the team overall.

Which is why I think of it as a misstep on the writers' part. They could have used that moment to start to integrate Laurel into the team and not wait until Oliver died. Even after all this time, I still kind of see Laurel as an interloper in that lair (Season 4 might change that; we'll see). Early and better inclusion into the team dynamic would have made those scenes later with Felicity and Diggle after Oliver's "death" ring a bit more truthfully for me.

[Primal Slayer]

I think their was definitely an awkward tension in the lair when she and Oliver were in there together. But when it was her with the team sans Oliver, it didn't feel as weird to me.

[catrox14]

 

To me that is just finding ways to dislike her. It's a no win situation. She says "I don't work for you" and some people hear "I'm not your lackey like Felicity and Diggle are" It's fine to not like her, but she said nothing wrong in these situations.

 

For me, it reads that way because of Katie Cassidy's performance for the most part.  I'm generally left feeling like she is acting in a scene that is different than what the other actors in. I think that is why there are varying interpretations or reads on the scene or the character of Laurel.  Maybe that's purposeful to show that Laurel isn't entirely on the team and is trying to figure out how to mesh with them. But in general, to me, it comes across as the "outsider" forcing her will on Team Arrow rather than integrating organically. It's a problem with the writing but there are things IMO KC could have done as an actor to make Laurel more internally sympathetic.  YMMV

[AyChihuahua]

Re KC wanting her stuntwoman to copy Caity Lotz's moves as Sara:  Nyssa and Sara, for example, both trained with the LOA, and they fight totally differently.  Totally.  Yet two people who've never trained or fought one single day together, and who learned in entirely different situations (other than Laurel's few weeks with Nyssa, when again, Nyssa fights totally differently from Sara), should fight and move the same because they share some DNA?  It just makes no sense at all.

 

I hope the stunt people nix it.  It's nonsense.

[Primal Slayer]

She said how they fall/get up, nothing about how they fight.

"So, even just like the way she falls, she lands, and the way she looks up, and the way she kind of crouches – just small little things just to sort of tie us together and create that, I guess, sisterly bond"

Edited September 18, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Sakura12]

Falling and landing are part of martial arts training. Those are not mannerisms that are genetic. 

 

She's not going to crotch the same way or land the same way Sara does. Sara was trained to be invisible, to sneak up on an opponent and to land without making a sound. Laurel doesn't just get those moves because Sara's her sister. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[Carrie Ann]

I actually like the idea that LL and SL would share mannerisms--of course they would, they're sisters. (My sister and I take after opposite sides of our family, but people always think we look alike because we make the same faces, gestures, etc.) But, then, if anyone should study CL's mannerisms, it's Katie, not her stunt double. The girls should share mannerisms from their regular lives, because that's how they knew each other. It doesn't make a lot of sense that Laurel and Sara would share fighting styles or stances or movements when they never fought together and in fact, Laurel barely ever saw Sara in action? But whatever, I wouldn't really be opposed to the idea that they might end up performing the same moves the same way because I can fanwank that they're supposed to physically resemble each other more than they do. It's just that if you're gonna go for that there, why not do it with the rest of your character too? Who knows, maybe she has and she just didn't mention it.

[Primal Slayer]

Those are also mannerisms that can be picked up by siblings. And it depends on how/why they are falling/landing.

[catrox14]

Wait, so KC wanted her stunt double to mimic Caity's mannerisms so people would think they are the same person? That wouldn't help anyway because they have completely opposite body composition and type so no one was ever going to really confuse Laurel for Sara in the first place no matter how they moved. Well no one that wasn't actually blind.

 

I'm confused as to why anyone on the show would do that. 

[Sakura12]

Facial expressions, hand gestures, eating habits, those can be the same from having grown up together. Fighting styles should be different because they did not receive the same training. Even if Nyssa taught Because Comics a kick Sara favored, it should not and would not be performed the exact same way. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

Those are also mannerisms that can be picked up by siblings. And it depends on how/why they are falling/landing.

 

Mannerisms could be picked up if they had spent time doing shared activities like martial arts training. But Laurel and Sara spent 5 years apart. One being trained nearly daily in moving and behaving a certain way and the other not. Nor did they seem to be remotely alike when we saw them in flashbacks. I'm confused why this would even be a thing to do.

[Carrie Ann]

Wait, so KC wanted her stunt double to mimic Caity's mannerisms so people would think they are the same person? That wouldn't help anyway because they have completely opposite body composition and type so no one was ever going to really confuse Laurel for Sara in the first place no matter how they moved. Well no one that wasn't actually blind.

 

I'm confused as to why anyone on the show would do that. 

 

No, she just thought it would be cool to show that Sara and Laurel move like each other because they're sisters. But for some reason, she put this on her stunt double to handle.

[AyChihuahua]

Wait, so KC wanted her stunt double to mimic Caity's mannerisms so people would think they are the same person? That wouldn't help anyway because they have completely opposite body composition and type so no one was ever going to really confuse Laurel for Sara in the first place no matter how they moved. Well no one that wasn't actually blind.

 

I'm confused as to why anyone on the show would do that. 

Just fighting mannerisms, plus jumping, etc., stuff that a stuntwoman would do.  Not like scratching her nose or something along those lines.  It makes no sense.  None. 

[Primal Slayer]

And the fighting style will be different. If Laurel falls, she wants it to be similar to Sara's as something that would be there pre-island. Though Laurel learning to fight, sharing some minor things is reasonable. It happens to siblings, parents/child at times.

[SonofaBiscuit]

Caity was a pretty awesome BC, so I do understand why KC would want to swipe her moves.  But maybe KC should have avoided that since it comes off as just another thing that Laurel stole from her sister, which is a complaint people have been making for a while now.

Edited September 18, 2015 by SonofaBiscuit

[AyChihuahua]

Everything about Arrow, esp. S3, that makes no rational sense is really pissing me off today, and this is just one more thing if they actually implement it.  No sense at all.

[Sakura12]

Caity's back as Sara. That should be the big reason why they should never make the have the same fighting style. They need to be thought of as separate and having different fighting techniques is a way to do that. Plus Laurel's only been doing this for a year, she should in no way be as fluid as Sara in her fighting style. They also have different body types and level of athleticism.

 

Falling and landing again, is something you learn in martial arts training. If Sara falls or lands it's a fall or land she's learned from practice. Laurel did not receive the same practice. 

 

My younger sister can start playing any sport and end up being better at it then the person that taught her. She got invited to a badminton tournament and she's only ever played badminton in gym class. She ended up winning the whole tournament and defeating the reining champion. When she was in 4th grade she was too good to play on that level basketball team and they moved her to play with the 6th graders where she was even better than some of them. That would not be me. Just because we're sisters doesn't mean we can do everything the other can, especially when it comes to something that is a talent or skill. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

And the fighting style will be different. If Laurel falls, she wants it to be similar to Sara's as something that would be there pre-island. Though Laurel learning to fight, sharing some minor things is reasonable. It happens to siblings, parents/child at times.

 

I understand that.  I still don't see any reason why Laurel falling and getting up should look the same as her sister falling and getting up? I mean they aren't twins. They don't even really look much alike either. I never had the impression they even liked each other or wanted to be like the other one, like at all.  So to me they would do what they could to avoid being like the other one as much as possible.

 

But hey why not. Laurel has stolen everything else in her sister's life, why not throw in body movement too! Yes that was really snarky because its annoying to have this be a thing.

 

Like just let Laurel be Laurel and Sara be Sara.  I've already suffered through the stupidity of the inorganic way Laurel became BC. I don't need the DNA too part of things. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by catrox14

[calliope1975]

I think it makes no sense that Laurel would share any kind of fighting style with Sara. Even with Nyssa training Laurel, perhaps some moves, but the way a body lands depends on the height and distribution of mass. CL and KC have completely different body types. I'd rather Sara keep her martial arts training and Laurel move towards a boxing base. I loved in Daredevil that you could absolutely tell where Matt Murdock got his base training in even with all the additional types of fighting styles that were layered on top.

 

In regular everyday land, I could see Sara and Laurel having the same types of mannerisms. I don't know that I've picked up on anything in particular CL does for Sara though that KC as Laurel could copy. But, I also wasn't looking for that either.

[Sakura12]

The only mannerism from Sara's I remember is her throwing her bo staff behind her and standing like a badass. 

 

 

Laurel does not have a bo staff, so she can not copy that move. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[Primal Slayer]

She wouldn't be doing everything Sara can. As Laurel progresses some of movements could be similar to Sara. The way they learn could be similar to one another. Sara probably moves differently depending on situation, she isn't in league mode 100% of the time.

[AyChihuahua]

I remember when Sara was running from Oliver after Felicity figured out the unknown woman was following Laurel, not Oliver.  She was parkouring over rooftops (looking awesome doing it, btw) and jumped from a height, rolled, crouched, and looked up.  I bet that's the kind of thing KC wants the stuntwoman to copy.  And you know what, Laurel has NEVER SEEN SARA DO THAT.  The only time she's ever seen her fight that I can remember is against Helena, and then she saw her carry a kid out of a burning building.  So from that she has some kind of twinzies muscle memory?  NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

Edited September 18, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[catrox14]

She wouldn't be doing everything Sara can. As Laurel progresses some of movements could be similar to Sara. The way they learn could be similar to one another. Sara probably moves differently depending on situation, she isn't in league mode 100% of the time.

 

I think she'd change what she does in a fight but IMO she's not going to change the manner if that makes sense.  She can change tactics and adjust if someone adjusts to her but the way she moves is likely going to fall back to the sense memory she's spent 5 years learning and practicing on a nearly daily basis. I mean I'm not sure she could change it readily if she wanted too.

Edited September 18, 2015 by catrox14

[apinknightmare]

I think it's possible that Sara and Laurel could have similar fighting styles for some moves, considering Nyssa taught them both at some point. So, really they'd both have LoA-like fighting styles. It doesn't really make sense that they'd have any other similar moves at this point since the've never fought together, Laurel hadn't seen enough of Sara fighting to mimic her, and Sara never trained her.

[AyChihuahua]

I think it's possible that Sara and Laurel could have similar fighting styles for some moves, considering Nyssa taught them both at some point. So, really they'd both have LoA-like fighting styles. It doesn't really make sense that they'd have any other similar moves at this point since the've never fought together, Laurel hadn't seen enough of Sara fighting to mimic her, and Sara never trained her.

I can't even buy that, beyond some very basic moves.  There are probably some standard LOA moves that Nyssa taught her, but she didn't have time to teach her much beyond that.  Plus, the LOA doesn't have a totally standard fighting style.  RAG was sword-fighting, Nyssa was archery and bow-fighting (similar to Oliver), Sara was Wing Chun (which she recommended to Felicity for "smaller people, like us," aka not Nyssa or arguably Laurel) and a bo staff.  That Al Owal guy had a different style and dissed archery.  It's just a crazy thing for KC to suggest.

[apinknightmare]

I can't even buy that, beyond some very basic moves.  There are probably some standard LOA moves that Nyssa taught her, but she didn't have time to teach her much beyond that.  

 

 

Right, I just meant basic moves, considering that Nyssa must have taught at least one move to both Laurel and Sara. 

[AyChihuahua]

Right, I just meant basic moves, considering that Nyssa must have taught at least one move to both Laurel and Sara. 

If she does like a roundhouse kick the same, fine.  I wouldn't even notice.  But KC specifically said jumping and crouching.  ("So, even just like the way she falls, she lands, and the way she looks up, and the way she kind of crouches – just small little things just to sort of tie us together and create that, I guess, sisterly bond.")  That is all Caity.  We haven't ever seen Nyssa do that to be able to teach Laurel. 

[apinknightmare]

I skipped over that part of the article, so yeah. No, they wouldn't do that the same. 

[yellowfred]

To me, Laurel picking up more of Sara's fighting style would be disappointing.  I feel like one of the few things they did right with Laurel's taking over as Black Canary was the fact that she had a completely different fighting style than Sara (i.e. using the nightstick instead of the bo staff, having more of a boxing base).  To pull a comparison from Marvel, I think it helps to keep Laurel as more of a Peggy Carter type fighter, while Sara's more of a Melinda May.  

 

In fairness, I should mention that I just re-watched "Al Sah-Him" and hearing Nyssa describe spending time with Laurel as the first time she's ever been happy in her life has me in a less than generous mood when it comes to Laurel copying stuff from Sara.

[Sakura12]

Do Not compare Because Comics to Peggy Carter. 

 

hearing Nyssa describe spending time with Laurel as the first time she's ever been happy in her life has me in a less than generous mood when it comes to Laurel copying stuff from Sara.

 

I'm glad I didn't hear that, it would've made me rage quit all over again. 

Edited September 18, 2015 by Sakura12

[catrox14]

Wait, what? Nyssa said that about Laurel? I thought she was saying that to Laurel about Sara??

[AyChihuahua]

In fairness, I should mention that I just re-watched "Al Sah-Him" and hearing Nyssa describe spending time with Laurel as the first time she's ever been happy in her life has me in a less than generous mood when it comes to Laurel copying stuff from Sara.

She seriously said that?  If yes I'm even happier I skipped 10-22.

[kismet]

I think there are a couple discussions at play -

 

Mannerisms - SL & LL would likely have similar mannerisms since they are sisters & were raised together for 20+ years. KC & CL have no similar mannerisms as they are not related & did not grow up together to the best of my knowledge. So unless they work on mimicking & spending time with each other to hone mannerisms, they will not just come. From my memory, I don't recall ever seeing either have mannerisms that remind me of the other. They also didn't spend a lot of time shooting scenes together, so it was likely hard for them to pick the mannerisms up. SA & WH on the other hand have had more scenes together over the last 3 years, so they sometimes do have mimicking mannerisms. It also has to be something the actors invest in doing - and I don't believe that KC or CL seemed all that invested in making the physicality of their sibling relationship more believable.

 

Fighting Styles - If they had trained together under the same school at the same time, then they might have similar fighting styles. But that is not the case here. They trained under completely different circumstances, different ages & for different lengths. They will have some similarities in some moves because they each were trained under Nyssa, but its not going to be a lot. On top of that, SL & LL have completely different physiques, so to be an excellent fighter you have to hone the fighting style that best uses your body type. I can't see that happening with these two. They need to find the fighting style that best suits KC's body type & training history.

 

Thoughts on KC's thoughts - I think it is unwise for KC to suggest to her stunt double to mimic CL, unless KC also begins to mimic CL natural ease in the suit. Otherwise the portrayals do not match up. A lot of what takes me out of KC as BC is that she does not appear natural when she is BC, so the transitions between stunt double & her are harder because you can tell the lack of comfort (hopefully that will change). CL on the other hand never had problem looking comfortable when she was the Canary. Every movement was seamless & fluid from her walk to her fighting moves. KC looks like a model trying to act like a street-fighter when she is in her BC get-up. From her walk to her poses & her moves, it is still stilted. KC should perhaps take her own advice and try to mimic CL's movements when she was just casually hanging out as Canary. I know TPTB said there was no learning curve for BC in s4; but I hope that didn't translate to KC's summer training. There is still a learning curve for KC as an onscreen street-fighter, I hope she recognized that and worked on it this summer. Its more than just working out, its finding the natural comfort and ease that CL, SA & DR have when they hit the streets & hang in the lair.

[yellowfred]

Just to clarify, I think she was mainly talking about being away from her father, but it still rankled.

 

 

Do Not compare Because Comics to Peggy Carter. 

 

Yeah, sorry about that.

[apinknightmare]

She was also getting milkshakes and fries on the reg. Who wouldn't be happy?

[statsgirl]

In fairness, I should mention that I just re-watched "Al Sah-Him" and hearing Nyssa describe spending time with Laurel as the first time she's ever been happy in her life has me in a less than generous mood when it comes to Laurel copying stuff from Sara.

The writing really does sabotage the character of Laurel, doesn't it?

atSomething that I noticed while rewatching Al Sah-Him, now that I know how the season ends.... I thought KC did a good job with Laurel in the quieter moments, like when she asks Diggle a question (What's that?) as they're all sitting around telling each other that Oliver is truly gone from them.  That is a Laurel I could really accept being on the Team. It's when she's Standing! Up! To! Someone! or being all about Laurel's big heart and how she fights for people that I think KC goes overboard in emphasizing what a good and strong person Laurel is that it feels like something from a stage melodrama than acting for TV.

[Menrva]

I really am unhappy about Laurel being the one to bring Sara back, if that is the case. Because if it is, then it's about making Laurel feel better. Not about righting a wrong. Sara's resurrection then serves to assuage Laurel's guilt, and it really has nothing to do with Sara - it's all about Laurel and her feelings. I really hope that Sara is brought back without Laurel's knowledge and that then Laurel has to do her best to help her sister return to this world. I could tolerate that. 

 

I wish KC would stop insisting that LL is a strong, brave woman who Really Cares and Kicks Ass. That's not what I see. That's never been what I've seen. And it doesn't seem like it's likely to change. Plus, there are plenty of brave women out there, in the show and out here in the real world who don't need to put on their dead sister's jacket and hit bad guys with sticks to make a difference. I know I'm going to sound totally sanctimonious here, but since I'm grouchy and I don't care, Malala Yousafzai is my idea of a strong, brave woman who is trying to make the world a better place. And that's more powerful to me than cardio, salmon ladders and fingerless gloves.

[Primal Slayer]

I see her as a strong brave woman. She wears her sisters jacket as a homage to her. She was already strong and brave before that though. She lost her sister and her boyfriend, her family broke up, father became an alcoholic and what does she do? She makes something out of her life and fights (well fought) for the poor. She wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty, put her life on the line. She is learning to kick ass out on the battlefield but she was kicking ass long before that int he courtroom.

[Menrva]

She makes something out of her life and fights (well fought) for the poor. She wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty, put her life on the line. She is learning to kick ass out on the battlefield but she was kicking ass long before that int he courtroom.

See, this is what I could get behind. I was really disappointed that they abandoned the CNRI story and brought Laurel into the DA's office. Her becoming disillusioned with the law would be so much more believable for me if she were still representing the poor and disenfranchised. Because there, she was seeing first hand how bad things were and when the courts failed her and her clients, her desire to do more for them would channel more naturally into fighting bad guys as a vigilante. Right now, to me Laurel just looks like someone who wants to hang out with the cool kids and has some anger management issues. She's not a team player and she's too undisciplined. But that's me.

[lemotomato]

She wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty, put her life on the line. She is learning to kick ass out on the battlefield but she was kicking ass long before that int he courtroom.

I may not remember because I haven't watched season 1 in a while, but did we ever see her win a court case on her own? I mean, without The Hood beating up people and forcing confessions and procuring evidence for her?

[AyChihuahua]

I may not remember because I haven't watched season 1 in a while, but did we ever see her win a court case on her own? I mean, without The Hood beating up people and forcing confessions and procuring evidence for her?

Nope. He also sometimes just did a total end-run around the law, as in 1.01, when he flat out returned all the money to the people from whom it was "stolen." Then Laurel told her client, who'd gotten his/her money back NOT through the legal system, to keep his/her mouth shut about it. Which, btw, is a crime, since the "stealing" was through legal shenanigans v. outright theft. If she were a real lawyer she would have been disbarred approximately 1000 times. Adam Donner could not have short-circuited that. (Actually, she probably would have been suspended from the practice of law for her first offense. There are a lot of boozer/druggie lawyers.)

[Primal Slayer]

See, this is what I could get behind. I was really disappointed that they abandoned the CNRI story and brought Laurel into the DA's office. Her becoming disillusioned with the law would be so much more believable for me if she were still representing the poor and disenfranchised. Because there, she was seeing first hand how bad things were and when the courts failed her and her clients, her desire to do more for them would channel more naturally into fighting bad guys as a vigilante. Right now, to me Laurel just looks like someone who wants to hang out with the cool kids and has some anger management issues. She's not a team player and she's too undisciplined. But that's me.

I would like to see a return of CNRI, it was a better fit then DA. But of course everyone has to have high profile jobs. 

I may not remember because I haven't watched season 1 in a while, but did we ever see her win a court case on her own? I mean, without The Hood beating up people and forcing confessions and procuring evidence for her?

Don't think so which isn't surprising on this show. 

Nope. He also sometimes just did a total end-run around the law, as in 1.01, when he flat out returned all the money to the people from whom it was "stolen." Then Laurel told her client, who'd gotten his/her money back NOT through the legal system, to keep his/her mouth shut about it. Which, btw, is a crime, since the "stealing" was through legal shenanigans v. outright theft. If she were a real lawyer she would have been disbarred approximately 1000 times. Adam Donner could not have short-circuited that. (Actually, she probably would have been suspended from the practice of law for her first offense. There are a lot of boozer/druggie lawyers.)

It surprised me when I learned that MG was a lawyer but he doesn't try to write the role more realistically. 

[yellowfred]

I was really disappointed that they abandoned the CNRI story and brought Laurel into the DA's office. Her becoming disillusioned with the law would be so much more believable for me if she were still representing the poor and disenfranchised. Because there, she was seeing first hand how bad things were and when the courts failed her and her clients, her desire to do more for them would channel more naturally into fighting bad guys as a vigilante. 

 

Totally agreed.  It almost pains me to say this, because I'm a huge Sara fan (in case you haven't guessed that), but I sometimes wish that they'd stuck with CNRI as Laurel's path to becoming the Canary.  I think if she'd really been starting out the vigilantism from the vantage of wanting to help people and finding working within the law to be insufficient, I would have found her arc to be a lot more satisfying.  

 

 

I really am unhappy about Laurel being the one to bring Sara back, if that is the case. Because if it is, then it's about making Laurel feel better. Not about righting a wrong. Sara's resurrection then serves to assuage Laurel's guilt, and it really has nothing to do with Sara - it's all about Laurel and her feelings. I really hope that Sara is brought back without Laurel's knowledge and that then Laurel has to do her best to help her sister return to this world. I could tolerate that. 

 

See, I'm of two minds when it comes to Sara being resurrected.  On the one hand, I'm really happy that she's going to be back and hopefully mostly herself.  I've always felt they made a pretty big mistake in killing her off, so I'm really glad that they're correcting it.  At the same time, though, within the show, I can't imagine the decision to bring Sara back being a smart one, considering she's been dead for almost a year.  I feel like the writers positioning Laurel as the driving force behind bringing Sara back is their way of saying "See, Laurel really loves her sister and wishes she were alive (and totally never wanted to steal her life at all)," but I worry that it'll end up feeling more like "Laurel makes rash decisions without thinking of the consequences, because that's just a thing she does now" and I'm not particularly excited for that.

 

 

It surprised me when I learned that MG was a lawyer but he doesn't try to write the role more realistically. 

 

Every time I remember that fact, it makes me sad all over again.

[Primal Slayer]

I'm also in the camp that doesn't want Laurel to bring Sara back. No way it would make sense for me.

[kismet]

Laurel bringing Sara back for self-absorbed, perhaps selfish reasons completely fits her general MO & her character in the series. The problem lies in that is contradicts what the TPTB/writers/KC want us to feel about LL & the BC as a person and heroine. According to TPTB & KC, LL is supposed to be this kick-ass, selfless person that puts others needs ahead of her own. LL is supposed to be caring and always trying to save the world. The problem is that the writers have failed to write or keep this a consistent characterization or motivation. LL hasn't been selfless or trying to save the world since s1. The majority of her plot, arc and characterization in s2 & 3 were all driven by self-absorbed or selfish motives. It's usually always all about Laurel to some extent.

 

TPTB promise us one LL, the writers write another LL, KC interprets her own version of LL, and then the audience gets this murky supposed heroine who appears self-absorbed, not a team-player and completely unlike what we innately feel or have been told her should be. Add to that the fact that they gave so much of the BC qualities to SL, there is no way LL was ever gonna seem like she was not stealing her sister's identity. It's a dog chasing its tail at this point when it comes to LL/BC.

Edited September 19, 2015 by kismet