Laurel Lance: Black Canary, Black Siren.

[EmilyBettFan]

Yup. So show wise I can't see how anything she does is worthy of a costume. Especially when we had Sara who is a badass in the role and she made it a million times better.

Some people obviously haters of Felicity will say "oh she's in the atom suit. She doesn't know how to use it or should be in it." Whereas I say, she's shown over and over again how she has saved people's lives and she helped to build that damn suit. What have you been watching?" I would tell them.

Edited August 3, 2015 by EmilyBettFan

[wonderwall]

she did? I remember Laurel trying to get Lance's support and then yelling at him for drinking. I also remember Lance calling Felicity to warn her Arrow was about to be toast. I don't remember Felicity getting Lance to mobilize but it's totally possible.

If I recall correctly, I think she did? I even remember reading that she did on EOnline...

[apinknightmare]

To be fair to Laurel - she didn't just walk up and turn off the TV. She stood there and watched the report until the anchor mentioned Sara's name and her picture popped up on the screen. Completely understandable reaction IMO.

[apinknightmare]

Duplicate - please delete. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

Duplicate - please delete.

Edited August 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

Duplicate - please delete.

Edited August 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Sakura12]

As someone else said, at least they kept it consistent with Laurel's unnatural reactions to things. Her reaction to her little sister being alive was to scream, throw a glass at her head and force her to leave. All while their parents were just trying to spend some time with their not dead daughter. 

 

I think most people would happy a loved one wasn't dead, then after everything settles down be upset about how they died in the first place. 

[apinknightmare]

If I recall correctly, I think she did? I even remember reading that she did on EOnline...

 

No, I think it was Laurel who convinced him with her speech about making his daughters proud and helping save the city. Quentin called Felicity to tell her that the chief had ordered them to shoot Oliver and Ra's, but she didn't have anything to do with him getting there IIRC.

 

ETA: Wait, she did tell him the 4 locations the virus was going to be released once she and Ray figured it out - but I wouldn't really call that rallying him - I think Laurel did that, by asking him to make her and Sara proud. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

huh........ now I'm confused. And to be honest I don't really want to go back to check :p

 

But it makes sense that Laurel did that. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

huh........ now I'm confused. And to be honest I don't really want to go back to check :p

 

But it makes sense that Laurel did that. 

 

I checked - Felicity let him know where the virus was going to be released, but Laurel was the one who convinced him to help.

[wonderwall]

I checked - Felicity let him know where the virus was going to be released, but Laurel was the one who convinced him to help.

Thanks!

 

Also, did Felicity help Ray come up with the idea on how to spread the vaccine? 

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks!

 

Also, did Felicity help Ray come up with the idea on how to spread the vaccine?

I think she did. Or she just verbalized his idea.

[BkWurm1]

@bkwurm1, now you have to tell us [well, me] what you're cooking. :)

 

Nothing, sadly.  That wasn't the answer I was expecting, lol.  I was involved in a conversation about first impressions of the character and this scene elicits a lot of passion.  Then someone suggested that this could have been Laurel's first time finding out that Oliver was alive and thus she would deserve some slack on her behavior.  Naturally I listed all the many reasons I was positive that it couldn't have been the first Laurel had heard about Oliver being alive.  I mean, not only is the news commentator mentioning his return to Starling (when you know the story would have hit the news cycle the second anyone knew who he was) but Laurel doesn't act surprised or shocked or sad or confused.  Just annoyed and angry. 

 

I was on that site that shall not be named (yes, I'm very weak) and really, while I'm alone in most of my opinions of Laurel over there, even the person suggesting that maybe Laurel was supposed to have just found out didn't initially view it that way.  Anyway, it occurred to me that I might just get a definitive answer from MG.   

 

He gave me one but honestly, my first reaction is, well, he must have forgotten 'cause that couldn't possible be right.  But it's Laurel's VERY FIRST scene in the show.  I have to think he'd remember what the intent was behind it. 

 

So if the intent was that Laurel for the very first time has found out that Oliver has come back from the dead, I have to give her a pass on what I do consider under just about any other circumstance as really awful behavior.  So I will do my best from here out to not hold it against Laurel.

 

What I will do it rail against the writers and directors and yes, KC, for allowing that interpretation to represent Laurel's reaction to hearing Oliver wasn't dead.  For one, they failed miserably at conveying that information since even among her passionate supporters, they didn't get that message.  What exactly did they think they were telling the audience about Laurel in that scene since had it been a normal reaction scene we would have actually seen IMO something other than instant and clear headed anger.  

 

It's not like Laurel had heard the guy she hated got off in a trial.   I could see were something like that would go right from surprising news to anger, but in this case, he was supposed to be dead.  For five years it was as true a reality to her as the sky is blue.  I can't at all identify or understand why there was absolutely no shock or surprise.  I am baffled.    

[statsgirl]

Having that as Laurel's first reaction to hearing that Oliver was alive, and the first time we see Laurel, is extremely problematic.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's part of why the audience turned against her.

 

Since there have been comparisons to Felicity turning off the lights in the lair, I want to say that I see the two situations as very different.  Oliver had been declared dead five years ago so Laurel should have processed her reactions in those years. Also, Oliver had been declared alive so it should have been a moment for happiness as opposed to sorrow (when Team Arrow thought he was dead).  It's the same as her reaction to Sara being alive -- anger instead of thankfulness and then anger at what they had done to her.  (Which I thought was bad but not bad enough to hold on to this crazy anger and resentment for 5+ years.)  There's no doubt in her mind, no hesitation, the anger at these two people is as real as if they had cheated on her yesterday and there's no mitigation for what they had gone through for 5 years.

 

But I think the biggest problem was that this is the first time we got to see Laurel.  We'd known Felicity for 2 1/2 seasons, we knew she was a kind person and the man she loved and had hung on to hope that he was still alive, she'd just found out that he was dead. In addition, her two closest friends, Diggle and Roy, had just been almost killed. Sara had recently been killed (Felicity was still trying to deal with that) and her old love had come back from the grave and tried to kill her.  Felicity was in the middle of all the tragedy and grief so even if her action was rude (state), we know that that's not who Felicity is (trait).  Laurel was five years past it and Oliver had been found alive, not proved dead.  If not black vs white, then the situations are at least light grey vs indigo.

 

But as I said, it was a mistake to make this Laurel's first scene because my first reaction was "what a bitch" since she showed no sign of caring about the other people in the room who had been watching the TV.  Maybe this is AK's idea of Laurel's positivism, that she's positive that whatever she does is right, but it turned me off her from the start..

[BkWurm1]

No, I think it was Laurel who convinced him with her speech about making his daughters proud and helping save the city. Quentin called Felicity to tell her that the chief had ordered them to shoot Oliver and Ra's, but she didn't have anything to do with him getting there IIRC.

 

ETA: Wait, she did tell him the 4 locations the virus was going to be released once she and Ray figured it out - but I wouldn't really call that rallying him - I think Laurel did that, by asking him to make her and Sara proud.

 

She went and told her dad there was trouble coming (hence, "Must be May") but she was supposed to get him to rally his officers and instead she left without any sign of his support.  Then Felicity calls and says she has locations of the viruses.  I'm a little fuzzy on the order of things but Quentin agrees to help and she must have asked if they were cool now because Quentin says something to the effect of "we'll see about that" and then goes to get his men.

 

It's all well and good that Laurel got to give a good speech but I have a hard time giving her full credit because she didn't secure anything or do any follow through. Maybe we were supposed to think she knew she'd changed his mind?  Cause I didn't get that.  

[apinknightmare]

I think Laurel's reaction was less about Oliver, and more about the mention of Sara and herself. Like I wrote above, she watched the anchorperson talk about Oliver - it wasn't until the woman mentioned Laurel's name that she turned off the TV. I mean, in addition to the fact that Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister, AND in addition to the fact that Oliver and Sara died, Laurel most likely was gossiped about. 

 

And hey, there it is being brought up again, right in front of her coworkers. I would've turned off the TV too, instead of standing there watching someone on television talk about something very personal and private in front of people I worked with, especially when said thing was hurtful and humiliating. If they were that curious, they could've found the news another way, like, say, when they weren't at work. 

Edited August 3, 2015 by apinknightmare

[apinknightmare]

Laurel goes and they have the talk, and she chastises him about drinking again. She tells him that he can disappear into the bottle, or do something that would make his daughters proud and help save the city. I'm pretty sure it's this that makes him decide to help, because the next we see of Quentin is a 10-second shot of him talking to Felicity and jotting down the locations where the virus will be released. She asks him something - maybe if he's back on their side, IDK - and he says, "I don't know, we'll see about that." Then he goes and gets his guys. Seems like he was just waiting for the locations? It's hard to rally people when you don't know where they're supposed to go to help.

[Angel12d]

Laurel turning off the TV didn't bother me at all. I admit I didn't connect that she turned it off because she didn't want to hear Sara's name, although that seems really obvious now. Duh. But at the time it came across more that she didn't want to hear about Oliver. But that wasn't a problem for me. My problem came later when she was so wishy washy about her feelings. First she hated him, then she wanted to be his friend, then she hated him again. Like, make up your damn mind. I would have preferred it if she consistently disliked him basically the whole season (she had enough reason to), all the while liking the Hood at the same time. That dichotomy would have worked for me. Alas, here we are.

[tangerine95]

Laurel turning off the TV didn't bother me at all. I admit I didn't connect that she turned it off because she didn't want to hear Sara's name, although that seems really obvious now. Duh. But at the time it came across more that she didn't want to hear about Oliver. But that wasn't a problem for me. My problem came later when she was so wishy washy about her feelings. First she hated him, then she wanted to be his friend, then she hated him again. Like, make up your damn mind. I would have preferred it if she consistently disliked him basically the whole season (she had enough reason to), all the while liking the Hood at the same time. That dichotomy would have worked for me. Alas, here we are.

That was my problem too.They had her hate him at first then for no reason go and tells him he can talk to her if he wants too or something like that and he acts like a jerk and refuses.Then in the second episode she  totally lost me with the way she acted when she saw him at the courtroom.It looked like she was mad at him for rejecting her not for what he did.And then to make it worse he goes to her with ice cream and she just lets him in.It made no sense.

[dtissagirl]

I just rewatched the scene for science.

What I got was Laurel being mortified that the news anchor was saying her name. What they changed from the original script was that instead of turning the tv off at "Sara LANCE", she does it at "Sara Lance, survived by her sister Laurel --" CLICK. Her name spoken on TV connected to a trashy gossip story? Yeah, I probably would have done the same.

Then everyone turns to look at Laurel, and she looks, I don't know, defying anyone to say anything? I'm not sure what to think there, it's too quick a beat.

I do agree that, as the very first scene to establish the main lady character and Love Interest ~per destiny~? This is a TERRIBLE one. Especially since at this point we're five minutes into the pilot, and I'm already sympathizing with Oliver -- and Laurel is presented as his *adversary*. My allegiance was with him already at that point.

[AyChihuahua]

It's all well and good that Laurel got to give a good speech but I have a hard time giving her full credit because she didn't secure anything or do any follow through. Maybe we were supposed to think she knew she'd changed his mind?  Cause I didn't get that.

It really wasn't a good speech. It was mostly about drinking, then a little about making his daughters (including the dead one?) proud. It was weird. And also, Quentin's 180 from his last 180, back to helping Oliver after working for his death and really hatefully lording Roy's death over him was bizarre. He didn't just help Oliver with the city-saving crap (please let SC not be in danger, at least not publicly-known danger, yet again in S4), he actually called Felicity specifically to save Oliver. They made him really over-the-top hateful to Oliver for pretty much no reason, so switching back away from that was jarring, to say the least.

[statsgirl]

What I got was Laurel being mortified that the news anchor was saying her name. What they changed from the original script was that instead of turning the tv off at "Sara LANCE", she does it at "Sara Lance, survived by her sister Laurel --" CLICK. Her name spoken on TV connected to a trashy gossip story? Yeah, I probably would have done the same.

I agree, it must have been mortifying for her, and it's not surprising she wanted the TV off when she became gossip fodder.  But it takes a number of viewings to get that out of the scene.

 

Add that at no point did she show any excitement or joy that Oliver had survived, and it's no wonder many in the audience were turned off of Laurel (Laura Hurley for one) and thought she was a card-carrying member of Narcissists R Us.  I'm not a fan of KC's acting but the show hobbled her from the beginning..

[Chaser]

http://laurawritesabout.tumblr.com/post/125879683081/devils-advocate-2-danny-brickwell-setting-up

 

Laura Hurley playing Devil's Advocate and arguing the pros of Laurels arc (including a positive spin on Diggle staying behind).

 

It's a total gem.

[catrox14]

Who the heck was Danny Brickwell? I seriously don't remember

[wonderwall]

THe amount of passive aggressive shade in that is wonderful :')

[Chaser]

Best Quote Ever:

 

"Oliver probably couldn’t have even fit through that window, and the buckles on Laurel’s suit clearly render her aerodynamically ideal for flying through the air like a bird."

 

I finally understand the buckles. 

[Morrigan2575]

Who the heck was Danny Brickwell? I seriously don't remember

Brick, played by Vinnie Jones. He was the main villain for 310-312. He took over the Glades and the mayor let him or something.

[Menrva]

Best Quote Ever:

 

"Oliver probably couldn’t have even fit through that window, and the buckles on Laurel’s suit clearly render her aerodynamically ideal for flying through the air like a bird."

 

I finally understand the buckles. 

Maybe the buckles alter reality and allow one to suspend their disbelief with ease? Or the buckles hold together flimsy plotlines and lame excuses for character development? 

[Chaser]

Some are talking about why they voted for Laurel for least favorite character. I will put my reasoning here.

 

She serves no point on the show. There is no reason for her to be there. If she was an enjoyable character, maybe I could overlook it. If I enjoyed Katie Cassidy, I could probably forgive it. But that's a negative on both accounts. Instead people who serve an actual purpose on the show are sidelined or killed off to try a re-do. But every re-do just reminds me how needless this character has truly become. 

 

At the end of the day it's not KC or the writing that kills the character for me, it's the fact that she doesn't fit.  

[wonderwall]

Some are talking about why they voted for Laurel for least favorite character. I will put my reasoning here.

 

She serves no point on the show. There is no reason for her to be there. If she was an enjoyable character, maybe I could overlook it. If I enjoyed Katie Cassidy, I could probably forgive it. But that's a negative on both accounts. Instead people who serve an actual purpose on the show are sidelined or killed off to try a re-do. But every re-do just reminds me how needless this character has truly become. 

 

At the end of the day it's not KC or the writing that kills the character for me, it's the fact that she doesn't fit.  

I guess this is my reasoning for putting her as least liked character:

 

It's been said before and I'll say it again, I honestly think that if KCs character wasn't named 'Laurel Lance' she would've been written off the show a long time ago. I see no other reason for her to be on the show because like you said, she serves no purpose to it *shrugs*, ceteris paribus take Laurel out of the show and not much changes except maybe Tommy would've been alive, Quentin would've found out about Sara ASAP and wouldn't have spiralled, his relationship with Oliver wouldn't have been fractured therefore Roy probably wouldn't have had to leave..... Basically everyone would've been better off. 

 

I think the only few good things Laurel did was figure out Sebastian Blood was a douchenozzle, helped beat Brick, and supported Sara when she doubted herself. That's it? I think? 

 

Thinking about it more, she was actually a better person in season 1 and a bit more giving considering she worked for CNRI. 

 

Regardless, this poll was about 'least liked' not 'worst'. And in the end, I liked Laurel the least because unlike Ray or DJ, Laurel's here to stay and it doesn't feel like the writers are going to start trying to fix her character. 

Edited August 9, 2015 by wonderwall

[tangerine95]

I still don't get why keep her only for the name.Tommy Merlyn was the Dark Archer in the comics but in the show it's Malcolm.BC could have easily been Sara Lance instead of Laurel Lance.She had everything but the name.I think she's still there because of contracts and promises that were made before the pilot was shot.

 

 

[pootlus]

It makes zero sense to me too - they'd be better off spending KC's salary on stunts/sfx.

[statsgirl]

At the end of the day it's not KC or the writing that kills the character for me, it's the fact that she doesn't fit.  

Laurel is the only character on the show who is governed 100% by her comic book destiny.  Every other character has either been created for the show (Diggle, Felicity, Moira, Walter, Sara) or adapted from the comics and changed to fit what the show is (Thea, Roy, Tommy, Slade etc.)  Even Oliver has been changed from the light-hearted archer of the comics to fit the darkness of his time away.

 

But Laurel just gets her comic book destiny, and no matter what happens to her, there will always be a course correction to that.  She couldn't even be Manhunter, which would make more sense given that she's a lawyer.  It pretty much ensures that she'll never completely fit into the show.

[steeledwithakiss]

It's been said before and I'll say it again, I honestly think that if KCs character wasn't named 'Laurel Lance' she would've been written off the show a long time ago. I see no other reason for her to be on the show because like you said, she serves no purpose to it *shrugs*, ceteris paribus take Laurel out of the show and not much changes except maybe Tommy would've been alive, Quentin would've found out about Sara ASAP and wouldn't have spiralled, his relationship with Oliver wouldn't have been fractured therefore Roy probably wouldn't have had to leave..... Basically everyone would've been better off. 

 

I think the only few good things Laurel did was figure out Sebastian Blood was a douchenozzle, helped beat Brick, and supported Sara when she doubted herself. That's it? I think? 

 

Thinking about it more, she was actually a better person in season 1 and a bit more giving considering she worked for CNRI. 

Thea, Roy and Sin were on it first so they could have kept on digging. And Quentin could have been Sara's cheerleader.

[kismet]

Laurel is the only character on the show who is governed 100% by her comic book destiny.  Every other character has either been created for the show (Diggle, Felicity, Moira, Walter, Sara) or adapted from the comics and changed to fit what the show is (Thea, Roy, Tommy, Slade etc.)  Even Oliver has been changed from the light-hearted archer of the comics to fit the darkness of his time away.

 

But Laurel just gets her comic book destiny, and no matter what happens to her, there will always be a course correction to that.  She couldn't even be Manhunter, which would make more sense given that she's a lawyer.  It pretty much ensures that she'll never completely fit into the show.

In some ways though I feel like she may be the character that never really reaches her comic book destiny. Remember MG said, not everyone would. There is just something about how they have executed her character from s1 that reeks of potential but lacks actual fulfillment. No matter what they throw at her character to help her reach that potential or obtain that destiny... its never enough. She is always "found wanting".

 

S1 she failed at being LI. S2 she failed at being the second lead. Her addiction arc was both good & bad, but it never seemed like something people tuned in for. If you removed it from the Arrow narrative, I'm not sure general people would notice it missing or ask about it. S3 she failed to garner interest even after she got her mask & her stunt double. People were still talking about SL as the Canary, more so than LL as BC. The comparisons were never favorable to LL. Yes, OQ finally acknowledge her as part of a crime-fighting team. But he was handing those comments out like Oprah handing out cars. Frankly, I think if the Fern had survived it would have been designated a hero as well, right after Sally.

 

At some point, you have to wonder if everything is given to the character to help fulfill its potential and yet destiny still fails to show up... when do you call it? How many more rounds of shocks & treatments can you do before you have to accept the reality of the situation? LL/BC may just be that character that just doesn't make it... and if that is the case then the writers/TPTB need to do something whenever their contracts allow them to move on. It might be sad & painful, but sometimes that's just the truth & reality.

Edited August 8, 2015 by kismet

[EmilyBettFan]

I just re watched Sara. I never understood how Laurel even found out where to go in the Queen C./Palmer Industries building when Oliver was fighting Lacroix. It makes no sense because Oliver jumped from high up to go into another level of the building because he was following Lacroix.

[statsgirl]

At some point, you have to wonder if everything is given to the character to help fulfill its potential and yet destiny still fails to show up... when do you call it?

I think it's a case of being in love with a comic book character and her potential, and not actually liking her enough to write her well.

 

At this point, I think that the EPs have decided that Laurel is now, to paraphrase Winnicott, a "good enough" vigilante and they're going to keep her around.  The question for me though is how she's going to fit onto Team Arrow.  I think Thea, like Roy, will fit on easily enough in a sidekick role but Laurel the leading lady in her own life and if she's around, i don't see her being willing to take a secondary position behind Oliver, Diggle and Felicity.

[Chaser]

I think the only way Laurel would leave the show is if Katie Cassidy decided too. I only see that happening if she was offered something bigger. She may not be getting the screen time or the media buzz, but she is billed as the female lead. I can't see her wanting to give that up. Now if she lost that billing and she is offered something else, then yeah I think she would jump on it in a heartbeat. 

 

Has anyone actually ever seen a switch in billing like that? I have when someone leaves or a character goes to recurring, but I don't think I have when both parties are still regulars. 

 

I'm anticipating Laurel playing the Roy-role. A background player in Team Arrow. I think she is going to maintain the screen time she had in S3, but the meat of her story with be Lance (Sara/Quentin). Thea I see having more of a role in the Team given she is family to Oliver and fits in the side-kick slot. I also get the impression Diggle is looking out for Thea. Did DR say something like that? It's in the back of my mind. 

[tangerine95]

I think it's a case of being in love with a comic book character and her potential, and not actually liking her enough to write her well.

 

At this point, I think that the EPs have decided that Laurel is now, to paraphrase Winnicott, a "good enough" vigilante and they're going to keep her around.  The question for me though is how she's going to fit onto Team Arrow.  I think Thea, like Roy, will fit on easily enough in a sidekick role but Laurel the leading lady in her own life and if she's around, i don't see her being willing to take a secondary position behind Oliver, Diggle and Felicity.

I don't even think they like Laurel,IMO it has more to do with liking KC and wanting to give her a least something of what was promised to her when she was cast.Giving her the LI role was shown could not work at all so they went with BC.Now that that was shown to make people who aren't her fans either indiferent or angry,we'll see what they do next.They seem to be giving her superficial stuff like a bike in season 4 and the canary cry to mask the fact that they have no idea what to do with her.

I always though the BC was too big a character to fit in a origin story about GA.Even Sara who I loved,took over the show in season 2.We saw how they had to kill Oliver for 3 eps so they could give Laurel room to suit up. That's not a sign of a character fitting well in the story.

She'll have her story with Sara to set up the spinoff and she'll get fight scenes.I have no idea what will happen in the second half of the season when Sara is gone though.

[tv echo]

Has anyone actually ever seen a switch in billing like that? I have when someone leaves or a character goes to recurring, but I don't think I have when both parties are still regulars. 

Even though it's not in the romantic context, on The Walking Dead, Norman Reedus has moved to second billing in the credits, even though he started out the show in the secondary tier of 'also starring' credits.  Part of that was due to the show killing off some main characters, but he also jumped past some actors who were in the main cast from the beginning.

[Morrigan2575]

Even though it's not in the romantic context, on The Walking Dead, Norman Reedus has moved to second billing in the credits, even though he started out the show in the secondary tier of 'also starring' credits.  Part of that was due to the show killing off some main characters, but he also jumped past some actors who were in the main cast from the beginning.

He moved to 2nd billing after all the other 2nd billing characters/actors were killed off.  In fact it became a running joke that if you moved to 2nd billing you were getting killed off.  Previous second billed characters Shane, Lori, Andrea...many worried that Daryl was next when NR got moved into the 2nd billed slot.

 

Moving actors up in the list after characters/actors leave is normal.  I don't think I've ever known a show to move/demote/promote an actor from their billing spot while they're still on the show.  That's not to say that BTS stuff doesn't go on (losing/gaining percs or haven't contracts renegotiated) but appearance is a big thing in Hollywood.  So even if an actor was promoted/demoted/gained/lost percs BTS we'd never really know about it...at least until the E Hollywood Story comes out.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

In S1 of TWD, Stephen Yeun and Chandler Riggs were in the first tier of opening credits, while Norman Reedus was in the secondary tier of credits.  But NR has jumped past SY and CR to become second billed in the first tier of opening credits.  (SY's and CR's characters are still alive on the show.)  So if you remove all the actors whose characters were killed off, SY should be second billed while CR should be third billed.

Edited August 10, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

In S1 of TWD, Stephen Yeun and Chandler Riggs were in the first tier of opening credits, while Norman Reedus was in the secondary tier of credits.  But NR has jumped past SY and CR to become second billed in the first tier of opening credits.  (SY's and CR's characters are still alive on the show.)  So if you remove all the actors whose characters were killed off, SY should be second billed while CR should be third billed.

You're right. In S1 NR was a guest star, he wasn't even a series regular. 

Edited August 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

I don't think I've ever known a show to move/demote/promote an actor from their billing spot while they're still on the show. 

 

Didn't this happen with Elisha Cuthbert/Kim on 24 after she was reduced from regular to recurring in the 4th and later seasons? I seem to recall some fan joy/jumping about it, but then again, I never got into 24 so I could be wrong. 

 

I also can't remember how Stargate handled the billing for Richard Dean Anderson in later seasons. My vague recollection is that Richard Dean Anderson got a few "Special Appearance by," in the Stargate spinoffs, but was that also true for Stargate SG-1?

[Morrigan2575]

After he left the show in S9 (I think S8 was RDAs last season) he was listed as Special Guest Star whenever he made an appearance on SG1.

 

Kim wasn't in S4 that I recall, I think she only makes an appearance in a couple of episodes of S5 when CTU is on lockdown.  I always thought the actress was fired/released from her contract after S3 and only brought back for a couple of episodes each year as a guest star.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

After he left the show in S9 (I think S8 was RDAs last season) he was listed as Special Guest Star whenever he made an appearance on SG1

 

Thanks!

[kismet]

There is part of me that wonders if Arrow will eventually move to alphabetical credits, with the exception of Barrowman who will probably get the coveted with/and special billing at the end as I think its in his contract. To be honest, I often wondered about this in s3 when I saw Cassidy up so high but her screentime/story so minimal. But then I never really bothered to watch the entire credits to see if they moved in that direction. Casual viewing of credits already seem alphabetical. A restructuring to alphabetical order will not draw attention to one actor but could be spinned as a a more team approach to the story telling.

[apinknightmare]

And, even in alphabetical credits, she'd still be #2, so...win for her.

 

Unless I'm forgetting someone who would go before her. 

[kismet]

And, even in alphabetical credits, she'd still be #2, so...win for her.

 

Unless I'm forgetting someone who would go before her. 

But it would still be a semi-demotion that they restructured the credits.

 

Paul Blackthorne could go above her. Emily has a double name so technically she could go ahead if Bett is really part of her last name & not her middle name.

Edited August 10, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

But it would still be a semi-demotion that they restructured the credits.

 

Paul Blackthorne could go above her. Emily has a double name so technically she could go ahead if Bett is really part of her last name & not her middle name.

 

I forgot about Paul Blackthorne, oops! I knew I was forgetting someone.

 

For some reason I recall seeing "Emily-Bett Rickards" in some old yearbook photo someone posted of her, but I could be wrong about that. I don't think the Bett is part of her last name.