Everybody Loves Raymond - General Discussion

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, Homily said:

I think what this is referencing is the flashback episode where we first meet Robert's ex wife.  It starts in the present and they see her in a restaurant then Ray tells Amy the story of how Joanne (her dancer name was Cinnamon) and Robert end up divorcing.  What's particularly funny is they show why Marie becomes a first class meddler - and show Debra still oblivious to what awaits her after moving across the street from Marie!

Yes that's the episode. And when you say Debra, do you mean Peppermint?

[sd dude]

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Hate Robert (as the less favored sibling, his beef should be with Marie - not Ray!), but what's the Cinnamon episode?

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I think what this is referencing is the flashback episode where we first meet Robert's ex wife. 

I'm sure you are correct that that is the episode that was being referenced, but it's funny when I first saw the Cinnamon mention, what came to mind was the earlier episode when Ray was going to go on the live TV sports show and couldn't pronounce the word "cinnamum"

Regarding Marie, she was almost too annoying for words, but she did have a few shining moments.  One was the aforementioned "Cinnamon" episode, where she is the only one who has the backbone to stand up for Robert and acknowledges that her son is too good for Joanne.  Another was the one where she burns Robert's lucky interview suit in order to sabotage his chance at getting a job with the FBI.  When she sends the fax during the interview, I'd like to strangle her just as much as Robert wants to, but later it is revealed that she is reacting to her extreme fear of him being harmed on the job (which I presume goes beyond the risk of being gored in the ass by a bull).  I found it hard to hate her in that moment.

On the other hand, one of Marie's most painful buttinsky moments also makes for one of my favorite episodes that I can't not watch every time I see it on the schedule.  I'm referring to "Let's Fix Robert", where she gathers together both of his exes, Stefania and Amy, along with his partner Judy, to point out his faults.  The one scene of all the women sitting on the couch skewering him while he cowers in the adjacent chair cannot be viewed too many times.

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The Ray stuff that made me laugh the most was the fly episode and when he tried to lift Debra up on top of refrigerator .   The last one I have seen a million times and I still crack up.

Those are two of my favorite bits as well that never fail to amuse me.  The other one that always kills me is when Robert first moves into his own apartment and Ray keeps visiting to check out the pretty women.

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

Didn't like Frank either....the one where he painted Ray and Debra's house, he was being a total asshole.

Ray was literally the only likable person in this episode.  Debra passive aggressively agrees to have Frank paint the house because she was mad Ray hadn't done it when she wanted him to - can you imagine how she would have acted if Ray had wanted Marie to do some redecorating in the house because Debra didn't do it fast enough for him? Then Frank starts painting the house a different color, and again Debra backs Frank up instead of Ray.  It totally discounts any arguments she has where she insists Ray should always take her side around his parents.

But I do love the ending where Marie gets sprayed with paint and then Frank says "needs another coat."

[Homily]

11 minutes ago, deaja said:

  Debra passive aggressively agrees to have Frank paint the house because she was mad Ray hadn't done it when she wanted him to

I know they have to do it to set up the episode but this always bugs me.  Debra would NEVER have expected Ray to contract someone to paint the house and she certainly wouldn't have expected him to actually paint it himself.  Debra controls the budget and the household decisions, she would have gotten some quotes and gotten a painter in to do it probably without even mentioning it to Ray!

Edited July 9, 2019 by Homily

[Snow Apple]

52 minutes ago, Homily said:

Debra controls the budget and the household decisions, she would have gotten some quotes and gotten a painter in to do it probably without even mentioning it to Ray!

Yeah, Ray won't even notice the new paint job.

Why would it even cross Debra's mind that Ray would do anything around the house? All he's interested in are sports, sex, and his mother's food. It seems she just want to pick fights with Ray because that's the only time he notices her except for sex.

[Homily]

6 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

Why would it even cross Debra's mind that Ray would do anything around the house?

She has tried to get him involved and I guess this was one of those times when she figured "the man" should be the one calling the shots.  Debra, Debra, Debra....

[readster]

22 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Yeah, Ray won't even notice the new paint job.

Why would it even cross Debra's mind that Ray would do anything around the house? All he's interested in are sports, sex, and his mother's food. It seems she just want to pick fights with Ray because that's the only time he notices her except for sex.

You raise a good point. There are many times during season 1-5 where it seems that Deb did things on purpose. They pretty much forced Ray to be just oblivious to everything and by the end of the series, he can't even notice if his own daughter got a haircut. 

[ByTor]

On 6/29/2019 at 12:51 AM, VCRTracking said:

The best moment is Frank saying "Marie you said he was black!" and Ray, Debra and Robert's horrified reaction and when Marie assures the father "I think it's wonderful that anyone can be a janitor now".

I loved Marie saying "I don't say "black", I say "African American"."  Marie was no bigot and she was quite open minded, just the way she expressed it was a little off.  Like when she said "I have no problem with the gay people" LOL

On 7/6/2019 at 9:08 AM, zillabreeze said:

Maybe an UO, but I strongly dislike the Frank character.

I hated him at 1st.  He grew on me after a while, but I could never say I liked the character.

On 7/9/2019 at 1:14 PM, Homily said:

Debra, Debra, Debra....

To this day when someone complains to me & I think they're wrong, I say "Oh Debra, you know what your problem is?"

[ByTor]

Actually "The gay people" reminds me of something else funny that Marie said...that time she asked Raymond if he smoked "the pot" LOL

[sd dude]

"Boob Job" aired on TV Land last night and I got a vibe from it which for some reason I never felt before.

When Debra is prancing around the living room with her faux implants, the way her BIL and FIL are staring and gawking at her chest is actually more than a bit creepy and skeevy.  Yeah, it's just a silly sitcom but how could Debra as a character feel comfortable around her in-laws if they so blatantly objectify her and ogle her body parts.

And this is certainly not the only example of the same behavior. "P. T. & A.", where Debra dresses slutty to show her disdain for the other PTA parents, has Robert and Frank exhibit the same exact behavior.

And Robert has made comments of questionable appropriateness.  I think it was "Let's Fix Robert", where Debra scolds him that he's never going to find the perfect woman, no one's perfect, and he responds to her in front of Ray, "You are.  You're perfect."  If it were a different kind of show, it would not be a stretch to propose that Robert is secretly, or not so secretly, in love with Debra, and very envious of Ray for being with her; not just for having a successful long-term relationship with an attractive wife, but for having that relationship with Debra. Then, too, there are multiple examples of Robert complimenting Debra's appearance right in front of Amy and not granting his own girlfriend/wife the same consideration.  Maybe in a way, Robert is his father's son.  Ray sure as heck is his mother's son.

The weirdest part is that I can't figure out why I never had this particular icky reaction before, after all the years and all the multiple viewings I've done of these episodes.  Perhaps it was the juxtaposition of the episode "Dancing with Debra" which aired just before "Boob Job" last night.  In the former, Ray becomes jealous of all the fun Robert and Debra are having going out at night swing dancing together without him.  When he shares about that with the two of them, they treat him like he is a moron to feel that way, and how inconceivable that there could ever be any kind of romantic connection between his wife and his brother.  Based on some of the antics I mention above (and how could I forget Debra declaring Robert the handsomest Barone in "Who's Handsome"), I don't blame Ray at all for feeling jealous, insecure, and slightly suspicious in that situation.

I guess all of this reflects more on the lack of character consistency and continuity that generally pervades sitcoms.  Even the best of them will put whatever they need to in an episode to get the required laughs out of the situation, and regularly ignore prior events and characterization.  Even Frank is inconsistent.  He objectifies his own daughter-in-law on multiple occasions, but in "Debra at the Lodge", he protects and defends her against his lodge brothers who are ogling her and making rude comments behind her back.  I suppose the moral of the story is, if someone is going to sexually harass you, it should be family.

[jalady]

LOL sd dude.  I firmly believe Robert is more than a little in love with Debra and, in conjunction with Marie's favoritism, it's why he positively takes unparalleled GLEE when Ray is in the doghouse with her.  To me it's almost psychotic the way he looks forward to any situation where Debra is mad at Ray.  I won't even get into how ridiculous I think it is that they repeatedly openly fight in front of his family - usually in their own house.  I'd toss them out.  Quickly.

Edited July 12, 2019 by jalady

[Snow Apple]

In the early years, I never got the impression Robert felt anything for Debra except brotherly which makes the sudden lust for her so creepy.

 I think it's because the character of Debra changed too. All of a sudden, we're supposed to think she's this hot mama amongst all the other frumpy suburban house fraus. That wasn't early Debra.

[ByTor]

I always felt it was like "Patricia Heaton had plastic surgery, let's make Debra HAWT"

[zillabreeze]

22 minutes ago, ByTor said:

I always felt it was like "Patricia Heaton had plastic surgery, let's make Debra HAWT"

I just finished the whole series for the first time.  Without checking, it seems like there may have been a big writer turnover somewhere in the middle.

The whole "mood" seemed to change on several levels.  Not in a good way.   Kind of like when Palladino left Gilmore Girls.

[PennyPlain]

I don't think the writers changed -  they may have added more writers but the core group that were there when the show started were still there when it ended.  I think basically what happened is the show lost its sweetness and (with the exception of Amy) all the characters became defined by their worst characteristics.  Someone upthread commented that the show got funnier as the years moved on - and I think that's true - but the characters certainly stopped being as likable.  

[zillabreeze]

17 minutes ago, PennyPlain said:

I think basically what happened is the show lost its sweetness and (with the exception of Amy) all the characters became defined by their worst characteristics.  Someone upthread commented that the show got funnier as the years moved on - and I think that's true - but the characters certainly stopped being as likable.  

I thought the show was a decent giggle in the early days even with the "sweetness". 

The only reason I gave it a recent go was because I was searching for a little break in "mean/angry" TeeVee, interwebs and news.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good cast of asshole reality characters.  A little brain bleach was in order to cleanse my palate.😁

[PennyPlain]

8 minutes ago, zillabreeze said:

I thought the show was a decent giggle in the early days even with the "sweetness". 

Absolutely agree!  I liked the earlier seasons when Marie still had a soft side and Ray actually wanted to be around his wife and kids!

[Homily]

On 7/12/2019 at 7:09 PM, PennyPlain said:

Absolutely agree!  I liked the earlier seasons when Marie still had a soft side and Ray actually wanted to be around his wife and kids!

To be fair Ray may have spent a lot of time trying to avoid being around his family but due to the structure of the show he still ended up being around a lot!  What he did do though when he was around was scheme for sex and golf and avoid doing anything that might be construed as helpful to Debra!

[PennyPlain]

The channel I get ELR on is running the (IMO) best years right now - just saw the episode where Ray overhears Debra's parents talking about going for marriage counselling.  Love this whole episode but Debra's speech to Ray "If my parents burned down an orphanage on Christmas Eve they still wouldn't be as bad as your parents" just kills me no matter how many times I see it.  Hate Patty Heaton's politics but she is a wonderful actress!

Edited September 9, 2019 by PennyPlain

[Homily]

2 hours ago, PennyPlain said:

Debra's speech to Ray "If my parents burned down an orphanage on Christmas Eve they still wouldn't be as bad as your parents" just kills me no matter how many times I see it. 

I love Ray when Debra is asking him where he slept the night before "at your parents" hits head; "in the car" hits head.  Turns out he slept on the sled.  😄

[VCRTracking]

Frank has so many good lines but my favorite will always be "I could have had my chance with Claudia." Second would be "Even though she was not what you would call a classic beauty, I could see what Ray saw in her."

[Homily]

I am getting such a kick out of the recent adverts for the Patty Heaton  show on the Food Channel.  I can just imagine what Marie would have to say about Debra hosting a cooking show!  "I don't like that, Debra."

[ByTor]

My mother told me she likes the new sitcom Heaton is doing.  I think she's a doctor in it?

[Snow Apple]

2 hours ago, Homily said:

I am getting such a kick out of the recent adverts for the Patty Heaton  show on the Food Channel.  I can just imagine what Marie would have to say about Debra hosting a cooking show!  "I don't like that, Debra."

Marie would insist on being a guest star to show viewers "how to cook correctly" or "how to fix your.....uh.....whatever that is."

[Homily]

1 minute ago, Snow Apple said:

Marie would insist on being a guest star to show viewers "how to cook correctly" or "how to fix your.....uh.....whatever that is."

"Debra dear you can remove all your food because I've made some things" 😀

[Homily]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

My mother told me she likes the new sitcom Heaton is doing.  I think she's a doctor in it?

Yes, I caught the pilot episode and it wasn't too bad.  Room for improvement for sure though!  If the powers that be let them find their way it might turn out to be pretty good.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ByTor said:

My mother told me she likes the new sitcom Heaton is doing.  I think she's a doctor in it?

It's called Carol's Second Act and it is on Thursday nights.  So far, it's cute enough.

[VCRTracking]

One of my favorite Ray moments is when he goes with Robert to meet Amy parents to tell them what a good husband Robert would be and he sees them putting together a jigsaw puzzle of Jesus and he jokes "Hey, isn't he the guy who sells tie-dyed shirts at the beach?"

Edited October 16, 2019 by VCRTracking

[Vixenstud]

On 10/9/2019 at 12:28 PM, Homily said:

I am getting such a kick out of the recent adverts for the Patty Heaton  show on the Food Channel. 

Is she coming back with Patricia Heaton Parties?  Loved that show, or is she doing something new?

[Homily]

4 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

Is she coming back with Patricia Heaton Parties?  Loved that show, or is she doing something new?

I'm not sure if it's new episodes or if they're replaying the old shows.  The advert certainly makes it look like they are new episodes of the Parties show - but with the Food Channel you never know!

Edited October 16, 2019 by Homily

[PennyPlain]

On 10/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, Homily said:

I'm not sure if it's new episodes or if they're replaying the old shows.  The advert certainly makes it look like they are new episodes of the Parties show - but with the Food Channel you never know!

I taped them because I thought they were new but turns out they were just new to that channel.  As far as I can tell they're replaying the same two seasons that have already aired and there are no new episodes upcoming.

[Homily]

Just saw the episode where Ray and Robert golf to see who gets Marie - not a favourite of mine but I just noticed a moment I hadn't registered before.  Robert and Ray are leaving Marie's house after her guilt trip doesn't work and Robert, in responding to Marie, somehow manages to scooch down to her level to talk to her face to face.  Very funny sight gag and very agile on his part 😁.

[VCRTracking]

I love this joke from "The Sitter". Ray and Debra get a new babysitter, Lisa a teenage girl which allows them to get out of the house. Debra, however feels insecure because the kids love Lisa so much so she tells Ray she wants to fire her.

DEBRA: You know, I don't think I'm gonna have Lisa sit for us anymore.

RAY: What? No! Listen, I never think of her, ever.

DEBRA: Uck. No, idiot.

[qtpye]

On 3/24/2019 at 9:12 AM, readster said:

I had no problem with Hank and Pat, in fact I think they fit the mold perfectly on the type of parents that Amie would have. However, My Lord! What were the writers thinking with Peter? I remember reading notes when they originally cast Paul Reubens as Peter. The notes were: "Peter is a man-child who never really grew out of comics, but is a caring brother and is invested in his comic book store."  What lead to a guy going out of business, trying to sabotage his sister's wedding because he was angry that she was "having a life" is beyond me. Plus, Chris Elliot just didn't play the part right. Him almost having a relationship with Peggy? Oh no, that actually made sense. 

On 3/20/2019 at 11:29 PM, readster said:

I felt the best episodes were from seasons 3-6, it was in season 7 that it started going down  hill. Don't even get me started on the disaster that was Amy's family and especially when Chris Elliot replaced Paul Rebuns as her brother. 

Chris Elliot is horrible in everything he does and he always plays the same type of idiot in every role. Loved Hank and Pat

[VCRTracking]

I don't hate Chris Elliot or Peter but I get why people do. I just much preferred Paul Reuben's version. He's much more like who comic book store owners are in real life. Basically like Jack Black in High Fidelity but with comics. That sense of superior knowledge and authority over neophytes. It's way funnier and interesting to me. Elliot just played him like what the general public thinks a comic book fan is like, pathetic and weird.

Anyway, my golden era of the show is probably '98 to 2002.

[jalady]

The scene in the series finale when Debra breaks down after the nurse tells her Ray isn't waking up brings tears to my eyes every. single. time.  Unusual for me with respect to this show.  Then, back to normal:

Debra: Nobody tell Ray.

Frank: Or his mother!

LOLOL!!

[Homily]

8 minutes ago, jalady said:

The scene in the series finale when Debra breaks down after the nurse tells her Ray isn't waking up brings tears to my eyes every. single. time. 

Same here.  I love the finale.  It hits all the right notes for me but that scene and then later when they are in bed together and Debra is listing all the ordinary things she needs to do the next day and you know she's thinking how in the blink of an eye it could all have been gone, wow.  Very powerful - and then moments later Marie is crawling into bed with them and Debra is saying "I knew this would happen one day." 😄

[Homily]

I was just watching the Thanksgiving episode from the first season.  I love the way they have Ray sitting down on the little chair at the children's table!  So cute.  And one of the strength of ELR.  They really didn't show the Barones as being well-to-do.  They were certainly comfortable financially but they didn't have a big house and the furniture and "fixings" were in proportion to what you'd expect them to have.  Especially in the early years.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by Homily

[ByTor]

IMO the Thanksgiving episodes were the best!

[VCRTracking]

On 11/18/2019 at 5:44 AM, jalady said:

The scene in the series finale when Debra breaks down after the nurse tells her Ray isn't waking up brings tears to my eyes every. single. time.  Unusual for me with respect to this show.  Then, back to normal:

Debra: Nobody tell Ray.

Frank: Or his mother!

LOLOL!!

Also, when it looks like Ray isn't waking up from surgery Robert wants to donate blood and tries to get into the surgery and calls out to him "Raymond! Raymond!".

Edited November 20, 2019 by VCRTracking

[catlover79]

This will never NOT be funny:

[Homily]

8 hours ago, catlover79 said:

This will never NOT be funny:

I love this episode and just caught it the other day.  Typical for the channel that airs it near me though they took out several lines and with this episode especially every line, every scene, was comedy gold. At least they left in Robert standing in the doorway!

Edited November 22, 2019 by Homily

[Vixenstud]

TVLand just finished showing Season 9, which included the Finale.

For me, it was Debra’s ‘Robert?!’ when Ray didn’t wake up that gets me, along with Robert crying out for Raymond.

Anyhoo….saw for the first time The Faux Pas and could not stop cringing!  OMG from Ray to Marie and Frank to surprisingly Debra’s comments, no wonder they won’t be seeing that kid again.

Count me in to the loathing of Hank and Pat, Georgia Engel (RIP) had the most annoying voice!

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Vixenstud said:

Anyhoo….saw for the first time The Faux Pas and could not stop cringing!  OMG from Ray to Marie and Frank to surprisingly Debra’s comments, no wonder they won’t be seeing that kid again.

I love Debra referring to Frank & Marie as "The Flying Faux Pas" LOL

[Homily]

The Faux Pas has grown on me.  It was definitely on my "can't rewatch this one" list for awhile but I saw it again with my husband, who always seems to like best the episodes I like least (go figure!!) and it really is very well written.  Cringeworthy for sure but very well done.  Especially poor Amy at the end!

Edited November 22, 2019 by Homily

[ByTor]

Funny that The Faux Pas is being brought up.  Last night when I was picking up dinner there was a guy who was leaving who had the huge ring with a boatload of keys on it.  I thought of this episode when the custodian left his keys behind 🙂 

[sd dude]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 11:03 PM, catlover79 said:

This will never NOT be funny

I can't say I'm 100% sure based on that image.  So let me take a stab at it:

Is that Robert's Lucky Suit episode?

BTW, there is some cute physical comedy in an episode and I haven't seen the scene in a very long time.  At this point I don't remember which episode it is in, so I'll let the experts tell me:

Debra is lying in bed with her back to Ray.  Ray reaches out to touch her and she says, "No".  He keeps trying to put his hand on her and each time she says "No" in perfect time to match his movements without opening her eyes or turning to look at him.  Episode please?

[catlover79]

2 hours ago, sd dude said:

I can't say I'm 100% sure based on that image.  So let me take a stab at it:

Is that Robert's Lucky Suit episode?

Yes!!!!

[ByTor]

24 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

2 hours ago, sd dude said:

I can't say I'm 100% sure based on that image.  So let me take a stab at it:

Is that Robert's Lucky Suit episode?

Yes!!!!

Yay, I guessed right!

[PennyPlain]

3 hours ago, sd dude said:

Debra is lying in bed with her back to Ray.  Ray reaches out to touch her and she says, "No".  He keeps trying to put his hand on her and each time she says "No" in perfect time to match his movements without opening her eyes or turning to look at him.  Episode please?

I know the exact scene you mean and I'm pretty sure it's from the first season.  For some reason I keep thinking it the IQ test one - after Robert tells Ray and Debra that Ray was actually the one with the higher IQ and Debra does not handle it well.  But I could be totally wrong!