White Collar - General Discussion

[tessaray]

In my mind, Mozzie and Gina are living off-grid on the West Coast with no way to be contacted. 

Honestly though, White Collar had one of the best endings of any TV show and it would have to be a brilliant script to make it worth doing. 

[LizDC]

 

[andromeda331]

I hope it's good but I don't know.

[tessaray]

Of course I will give any reboot a chance but with some reluctance. Reboots are so iffy.  

[CheshireCat]

I just saw the news about the reboot. After Garson died, I expected that they'd scrapped the plans, so it was quite a surprise to see it pop up on my Twitter feed.

[tv echo]

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, tessaray said:

Of course I will give any reboot a chance but with some reluctance. Reboots are so iffy.  

They really are. I can count on one hand how many reboots I liked. Most are just aren't that good.

6 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

I just saw the news about the reboot. After Garson died, I expected that they'd scrapped the plans, so it was quite a surprise to see it pop up on my Twitter feed.

I expected them to do that too. I can't image the show with Garson. 

[DoctorAtomic]

A limited series set in Paris for one big sting/con would be interesting to me, and get around no Mozzie. I don't know how you'd justify Peter being there, unless he's assisting Interpol or something like that. 

I don't know if you could recapture the OG case of the week vibe, and if they're going to have a real-time lapse, I don't think it would be the right move. 

I liked the Monk movie though, so I'm always willing to revisit the golden age of the USA network. 

[sinkwriter]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:25 AM, tessaray said:

In my mind, Mozzie and Gina are living off-grid on the West Coast with no way to be contacted. 

Honestly though, White Collar had one of the best endings of any TV show and it would have to be a brilliant script to make it worth doing. 

I also like Mozzie with that brilliant hacker woman (Sally / the Vulture) he briefly spent time with in season 3 episode 7 (called "Taking Account"). They had a lot in common, plus she called him "the handsome one," which I adored. Especially because we all assumed she meant Neal, lol. As Mozzie would say, "Consider that a lesson in modesty."  😄❤️

I think watching a reboot of the series will always hurt my heart a little bit, with the loss of Willie Garson. But if they can find a way to write a great script and do it justice to him not being there, I'll definitely watch.

[fastiller]

On 6/7/2024 at 7:10 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

A limited series set in Paris for one big sting/con would be interesting to me, and get around no Mozzie. I don't know how you'd justify Peter being there, unless he's assisting Interpol or something like that. 

I don't know if you could recapture the OG case of the week vibe, and if they're going to have a real-time lapse, I don't think it would be the right move. 

I liked the Monk movie though, so I'm always willing to revisit the golden age of the USA network. 

I just finished a full series re-watch and a Paris-based limited series (4-6 eps) with one overarching sting is appealing.  Maybe Peter is now working for Interpol directly?  At some very high level, of course.  Something hinky is happening at the Louvre, where Elizabeth is some high-level muckety-muck (she's smart, so she twigs to a con-in-the-making & brings it to Neal first (natch)).  In my mind, Peter and El have three kids.  We already met Neal at the end of first series.  The next are called Carol and William - to honour Diahann Carroll (there's already a Diana in this crew) & Willie Garson.  Maybe we meet the three kids, maybe they're off at school?  Berrigan is heading up FBI White Collar.  Jones is semi-retired, seconded to some UK or EU agency.  I could probably think of more details.

[chitowngirl]

40 minutes ago, fastiller said:

I just finished a full series re-watch and a Paris-based limited series (4-6 eps) with one overarching sting is appealing.  Maybe Peter is now working for Interpol directly?  At some very high level, of course.  Something hinky is happening at the Louvre, where Elizabeth is some high-level muckety-muck (she's smart, so she twigs to a con-in-the-making & brings it to Neal first (natch)).  In my mind, Peter and El have three kids.  We already met Neal at the end of first series.  The next are called Carol and William - to honour Diahann Carroll (there's already a Diana in this crew) & Willie Garson.  Maybe we meet the three kids, maybe they're off at school?  Berrigan is heading up FBI White Collar.  Jones is semi-retired, seconded to some UK or EU agency.  I could probably think of more details.

Sounds like we have our outline for the script!!

[sinkwriter]

I could get on board with Peter going to Paris.  :)

I also think there might be a case made somehow for Neal coming back to NYC. I know there's the Pink Panthers 'danger' if he were ever to come back... but (for example) if something has happened to Mozzie, I would think nothing would stop Neal from coming back. That might be a way of honoring Mozzie as a character as well.

Whatever happens, I'm very curious what they have planned. Especially because the articles / interviews I've read from Matt, Tim and Tiffani all seem very positive. They've said the plan for the new series honors the characters (especially Mozzie) and the show overall. I think Tiffani said the script she read even made her cry, she was so moved? 

No matter what, I hope the writing is smart. As Peter says, "you know how I like 'smart'."  😄😉

[chaifan]

I just finished a rewatch of the full series.  I had forgotten that Season 6 was a short one.  Does anyone know why?  Was it going to be cancelled and they bargained for a half-season to wrap it up? 

Overall, I think the show holds up pretty well.  Other than the outdated cell phones, it could be a current show.

A few questions... first, what happened to all the money from the Uboat treasure?  Mozzie said he squirreled away Neil's share, and I know some was confiscated after Peter re-caught Neil, but I can't see Mozzie stashing it all in one place or otherwise making it easy for the Feds to get all of it.  But after that, they were both back to being broke, right?

Final episode:  First, I'm not quite sure I get Neil's motivation for playing dead.  He would be completely free per his contract.  Is it that he feared retribution by the Pink Panthers, that they could harm him by going after Moz, Peter & El?  If that's the case, I think they should have made it a bit more clear.

I don't quite understand why Mozzie is sitting on $14 million and still playing card games on the street.  And I don't understand why Neil would be so detailed on planning his death but leave the key for Peter to find in his personal effects and leave all that stuff in the shipping container.  Sure, he might leave some of his paintings, but to leave the dummy, the bullets, pictures of the fake EMT & doctor (he never would have had those in the first place), the how to fake your own death via pufferfish vision board...  Nope, so not Neil Caffrey style.  It would have made more sense for Neil to have set a timer for the container to burn, but there were enough remains to give Peter a clue that Neil is still alive.

I'm glad they're doing a reboot, I'm looking forward to that.  I'll miss Mozzie.  I wish he took his $14 million and bought a winery somewhere, and then had a freak winemaking accident that led to his death.  Or maybe he started a foundation for foster kids, and had a heart attack playing with kids on the playground.  I just want his death to be doing something he loved.  I hope they keep it in NYC.  Paris would be fun, but it would be a stretch to get everyone there and have it make sense. 

 

[CheshireCat]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:19 PM, chaifan said:

I just finished a rewatch of the full series.  I had forgotten that Season 6 was a short one.  Does anyone know why?  Was it going to be cancelled and they bargained for a half-season to wrap it up? 

If memory serves, the plan was to cancel it after S5 and it was given the 6 episodes to wrap up Neal's kidnapping story because the fans pushed for it. 

On 7/5/2024 at 11:19 PM, chaifan said:

Final episode:  First, I'm not quite sure I get Neil's motivation for playing dead.  He would be completely free per his contract.  Is it that he feared retribution by the Pink Panthers, that they could harm him by going after Moz, Peter & El?  If that's the case, I think they should have made it a bit more clear.

I think it was both. In E3 (I believe) there's a conversation between Neal and Keller during which Keller says to him that the Pink Panthers go after the families/loved ones if they're betrayed. 

I also think he was afraid that the government would yet again move back on their promise/contract or find yet another reason to go back on it. I believe this was the third time that he was promised freedom and then it didn't happen. So, my take was that he took the opportunity and thought better safe than sorry.

[fastiller]

On 7/5/2024 at 11:19 PM, chaifan said:

I'm glad they're doing a reboot, I'm looking forward to that.  I'll miss Mozzie.  I wish he took his $14 million and bought a winery somewhere, and then had a freak winemaking accident that led to his death.  Or maybe he started a foundation for foster kids, and had a heart attack playing with kids on the playground.  I just want his death to be doing something he loved.  I hope they keep it in NYC.  Paris would be fun, but it would be a stretch to get everyone there and have it make sense. 

 

Even though I was able to stretch for a Paris-based series, I've come around to having the reboot be NYC-based.  During S6 (I think; could've been S5) they did an episode in Fort Totten in Queens; I live very near the Fort and have spent a ton of time at/near it.  I passed it the other day and it had me thinking how well the show used the NYC locations, even (especially?) those outside of Manhattan.  Though I was often confounded at how fast they could get from FBI offices in Manhattan to the Burke house in Brooklyn and then back to Manhattan to June's house all in one day (would love it if commuting could be that fast!).  Anyway, the City really came thru very nicely in the show.  Elementary & Person of Interest did a similar thing w/ NYC.

[andromeda331]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:04 PM, CheshireCat said:

I also think he was afraid that the government would yet again move back on their promise/contract or find yet another reason to go back on it. I believe this was the third time that he was promised freedom and then it didn't happen. So, my take was that he took the opportunity and thought better safe than sorry.

I can see why he would think that but I still hate him faking his death. I wanted to see him walking away free. Ending there while we wonder what he would do now that he was free? Stay with Peter? Travel the world? Be tempted by another con. 

[CheshireCat]

On 7/10/2024 at 2:02 PM, andromeda331 said:

I can see why he would think that but I still hate him faking his death. I wanted to see him walking away free. Ending there while we wonder what he would do now that he was free? Stay with Peter? Travel the world? Be tempted by another con. 

I think in a way, he walked away freer than had he not faked his death. Yes, it would have been satisfying and rewarding to see the FBI release him from his anklet and recognize that his debt had been paid. At the same time, he'd always have been Neal Caffrey and his past would have followed him wherever he went. 

I think he might have been afraid that it could define him and that he would have difficulties not letting it define him. Kind of like drug addicts. After getting sober they're more at risk of using again if they go back to their old life. 

By faking his death, he had a chance to start over, leave it all behind and reinvent himself. 

That aside, I remember having been disappointed that he had gone to Paris rather than London. But it makes sense that he wouldn't have. Still, I really liked them together and think he would have deserved to be with her. 

[Sarah 103]

On 6/7/2024 at 7:10 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

A limited series set in Paris for one big sting/con would be interesting to me, and get around no Mozzie. I don't know how you'd justify Peter being there, unless he's assisting Interpol or something like that. 

If a case involves an object stolen from the U.S or money involved in a crime/criminal activity enters the U.S banking system, then the FBI has jurisdiction and can get involved. It would not be that difficult to come up with a reason to justify Peter being involved in a case that is set in Paris. 

Also, assuming the series is set in the present day, baby Neal would now be 10 years old, which means old enough to be an actual person/character who can have a real impact on the plot or be a fun subplot as opposed to a plot device. (Ben in the later seasons of Friends as opposed to baby Ben in the early seasons of Friends or Fredrick in Fraiser as opposed to Fredrick in Cheers). 

 

Edited July 16 by Sarah 103

[chaifan]

I think my biggest problem with Neil faking is death is that he had less than 2 years left on his "sentence".  Yes, I know, the FBI had gone back on their word a few times, but he had 4 years left on his sentence at the beginning of the show.  It would be nearly impossible to extend his sentence after the fact, to bind him to the FBI or keep him under the tracking anklet.  Yes, he'd be on probation for a while, but those terms are generally pretty loose.

One quibble I had in the first 2 seasons was that every time Peter and Neil had a case and it looked like the bad guy was going to go free, Peter would say something like "if we don't get this guy you're going back to prison".  No, that's not how that type of arrangement would work.  Neil can't be held to a 100% success rate, and they also said several times Peter's "catch" rate was higher with Neil, but still not 100%. 

7 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Also, assuming the series is set in the present day, baby Neal would now be 10 years old

OK, what did I miss???  Neil has a kid out there?  With who?  Sarah? Alex? 

[Sarah 103]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

OK, what did I miss???  Neil has a kid out there?  With who?  Sarah? Alex? 

At the end of the series, Peter and Elizabeth have a son they name Neal. Baby Neal is Neal Burke. 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

At the end of the series, Peter and Elizabeth have a son they name Neal. Baby Neal is Neal Burke. 

Oh, that's right.  And they named him Neal because they thought Neal was dead.  Thank you for the reminder. 

[CheshireCat]

20 hours ago, chaifan said:

I think my biggest problem with Neil faking is death is that he had less than 2 years left on his "sentence".  Yes, I know, the FBI had gone back on their word a few times, but he had 4 years left on his sentence at the beginning of the show.  

At the end of season 3, Neal fled the country, though, before the committee had made a decision to release him. I don't think the show ever clued us in on what that would have meant with regards to a prison term but it would've been his third strike (first was the initial arrest, second was his prison break). When added to what he was suspected of having done, I don't know how kind a prosecutor or judge would've been. Didn't Peter also mention something about how he'd convinced someone to get Neal his deal back? 

I think the show also left it up in the air just how much the FBI knew about the stolen treasure. I don't think they knew it was Neal, however, there probably were quite a few clues so that it wouldn't have been too hard to find out. 

He also committed a couple of crimes after that weren't sanctioned by the FBI. I'm not sure in how much trouble he could have gotten in for those. 

[chaifan]

@CheshireCat In the beginning of Season 4, Peter and Neal concocted some plan to capture the Big Guy on the island that was actually someone on the Most Wanted list.  The deal being Neal helps with that and he gets to come back to his old deal.  If I remember right, they were also able to spin it to look like that was the plan from the beginning, so from the FBI perspective, his "fleeing" was legit.

The stolen treasure - they had nothing solid to pin it on Neal.  That's why they were waiting for some of it (something on the partial ledger they recovered) to turn up for sale.  Peter "knew" Neal and Mozzie had it, but couldn't prove it.  I can't remember how they lost it (had to give it back to the FBI), but I think they only lost Mozzie's half.

This was generally a well written show, but there are plot holes that I guess we just have to hand waive away to make things work.

oooh, I just had a thought...  what if all this time, Sarah had Neal's 1/2 of the treasure, and that's where things pick up 10 years down the line?

[andromeda331]

On 7/17/2024 at 8:00 AM, chaifan said:

@CheshireCat In the beginning of Season 4, Peter and Neal concocted some plan to capture the Big Guy on the island that was actually someone on the Most Wanted list.  The deal being Neal helps with that and he gets to come back to his old deal.  If I remember right, they were also able to spin it to look like that was the plan from the beginning, so from the FBI perspective, his "fleeing" was legit.

The stolen treasure - they had nothing solid to pin it on Neal.  That's why they were waiting for some of it (something on the partial ledger they recovered) to turn up for sale.  Peter "knew" Neal and Mozzie had it, but couldn't prove it.  I can't remember how they lost it (had to give it back to the FBI), but I think they only lost Mozzie's half.

This was generally a well written show, but there are plot holes that I guess we just have to hand waive away to make things work.

oooh, I just had a thought...  what if all this time, Sarah had Neal's 1/2 of the treasure, and that's where things pick up 10 years down the line?

Keller kidnapped Elizabeth to force Neal to give up the treasure. Elizabeth rescues herself at the same time Diana and Jones find her. The treasure was put on the military or something trucks Keller knocks out Neal to take the treasure. Neal kicks stuff off the truck to get Keller to stop the truck and then they fight. Peter shows up and arrests Keller. Keller later confesses that he was the only one who stole the treasure to give it to the Russians. To save his own butt from the Russians who wanted him dead until that moment and to stick it to Neal. I assume the treasure went back to Russia since most it belonged to them. I love Elizabeth saving herself. And Satchmo for helping out by biting the kidnapper.