S03.E10: A Higher Law

[thewhiteowl]

Bull represents a priest who knows but cannot reveal the identity of a driver involved in a fatal hit-and-run accident.

[DrScottie]

Once they mentioned Jacob just got into Harvard and how easy it was to get the van, it was fairly obvious that he did it.

[SamBeckett]

Although it was way too obvious, it was also very real-life. You have a safe, but then you have the combination written down and out in the open.

If my house ever got broken into, the thief would find a sheet of paper next to my computer with all my passcodes.

But back to the show—the poor secondary characters — those on Bull’s staff — are lucky if they get 2 to 3 lines per episode.

Another thing — shouldn’t the police have run across (pun not intended) the log for checking out the van? But I guess because they found Father Andy — despite being a priest in what seemed to be a small town — driving the van while drunk they did NO investigation!?! I realize the log wouldn’t have cleared him. My only point is that once again the police on this show never seem to do a thorough investigation.

I’m also surprised the recent scandal the Church is in didn’t come up, at least in passing. And Chunk never actually said he was ostracized for being gay, although that was what he was talking about, right? I wonder why they soft-pedaled that?

[HurricaneVal]

Unfortunately, the Harvard kid's guilt was telegraphed so clearly in that one scene in the church office that it made the rest of the show kind of boring.  Until the red herring of the Monsignor being so willing to throw his priest under the bus came around, and for a while I thought maybe the Monsignor was the guilty party, but that was just an opportunity to let Bull pull a holier-than-thou moment over on the Monsignor as a stand-in for the entire church.  I found Benny's response to that to be entirely out of character--as a devout Catholic, with special ties to that specific Monsignor, I think he'd be just a wee bit conflicted instead of standing at Bull's shoulder like his pit bull nodding "yeah, yeah, me too!"

This one seemed a bit off to me.  Usually the casting office does a better job with the "case of the week" actors.  The Monsignor and the priest came straight from Central Casting, and the Harvard kid was awful.  The mystery girlfriend was amazing though, her scene where she was talking with Danni about how the Harvard kid had just dropped her like a hot potato was incredible.  She displayed such a depth of hurt betrayal while her words were trying to toss it off as casual.  Nicely done.  Do more, young actress....

[rhys]

I dunno. The van looked pretty old to have a nav system in it.

Plus it's been a bunch of decades since I was a  catholic but just cuz fr Andy approached the driver rather than the driver approaching fr Andy seems spurious. It's not like fr Andy said: "hey, confess." He just walked outside to see what was going on.

[LuvMyShows]

4 hours ago, rhys said:

Plus it's been a bunch of decades since I was a  catholic but just cuz fr Andy approached the driver rather than the driver approaching fr Andy seems spurious. It's not like fr Andy said: "hey, confess." He just walked outside to see what was going on.

That's exactly what I thought.  In fact, I was so curious that I Googled this exemption thing they had been talking about, but I couldn't find anything about it at all.

Also, I found it very odd when Bull said that he just can't get his butt up for Sunday morning service, that the priest said "You know you're going to hell" rather than something like "That's OK, we have services at other times" or "That's OK, what matters most is in your heart.  The rest may come in time if you stay open to the spirit."

[rhys]

32 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

That's exactly what I thought.  In fact, I was so curious that I Googled this exemption thing they had been talking about, but I couldn't find anything about it at all.

Also, I found it very odd when Bull said that he just can't get his butt up for Sunday morning service, that the priest said "You know you're going to hell" rather than something like "That's OK, we have services at other times" or "That's OK, what matters most is in your heart.  The rest may come in time if you stay open to the spirit."

What about Saturday night mass, dude?!

[DrScottie]

5 hours ago, rhys said:

Plus it's been a bunch of decades since I was a  catholic but just cuz fr Andy approached the driver rather than the driver approaching fr Andy seems spurious. It's not like fr Andy said: "hey, confess." He just walked outside to see what was going on.

. Father Andy clearly thought it was a protected confession and presumably the Catholic Church would too.  

40 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

That's exactly what I thought.  In fact, I was so curious that I Googled this exemption thing they had been talking about, but I couldn't find anything about it at all.

I tried to find it too and couldn't find anything on it either. Was that made up for the show for dramatic effect? 

12 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

This one seemed a bit off to me.  Usually the casting office does a better job with the "case of the week" actors.  The Monsignor and the priest came straight from Central Casting, and the Harvard kid was awful.  The mystery girlfriend was amazing though, her scene where she was talking with Danni about how the Harvard kid had just dropped her like a hot potato was incredible.  She displayed such a depth of hurt betrayal while her words were trying to toss it off as casual.  Nicely done.  Do more, young actress....

I agree. She did a great job. In case you were curious, that was Cameisha Cotton. 

[JessDVD]

See, if maybe the other kids there also introduced themselves, and not just Harvardkid, there might have been a SMIDGEN of mystery about who it actually was... And shouldn't it have taken about ten seconds of police work to do some checking on where everyone who normally drove the van was at that time?

I'm a religious person (not Catholic though) and I totally understand the whole what thou confesseth, thy priest will not divulgeth, but I really, really don't understand including crimes in that. I'm trying to catch up on Blue Bloods (Catholic all over there) and I just watched a late s7 ep last week where a priest had a parishioner confess he'd committed a crime and wouldn't be useful to the cops. This one was a *little* better in that the priest was willing to take the fall for not giving up the kid, sort of a "take me instead" move. 

The "you know you're going to hell" line was kind of weird... I mean, every religion pretty much believes that but most people who aren't Puritan preachers from the 1700s soften that sentiment a bit when speaking to an unbeliever. I assume it was to allow Bull the "already reserved a suite there" line.

[Dowel Jones]

Is it only the Catholic religion that regards confession as sacrosanct?  That would seem to open an entire can of worms if everyone suddenly started claiming the right of confessional immunity, so to speak.

[Netfoot]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:56 AM, DrScottie said:

it was fairly obvious that he did it.

To make it more obvious they would have had to poke you in the eye with a sharp stick!

5 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

That would seem to open an entire can of worms if everyone suddenly started claiming the right of confessional immunity, so to speak.

Or claiming the right to be judged only under Sharia law, for instance?

[Sarah 103]

On 12/12/2018 at 11:22 AM, Dowel Jones said:

Is it only the Catholic religion that regards confession as sacrosanct?  That would seem to open an entire can of worms if everyone suddenly started claiming the right of confessional immunity, so to speak.

Confessional immunity (to use your term) isn't something that anyone can claim. Someone who confesses to a priest can still be tried and convicted for any crime that they committed. The teenager wasn't claiming that he couldn't be held legally accountable because he confessed to a priest. If confessional immunity exists, it seems similar to doctor/patient confidentiality or attorney/client privilege. The issue was that the priest could not divulge what he knew.   

[Dowel Jones]

I was thinking of the person hearing the confession, not the confessor.  Can someone of any religion claim that privilege and not divulge what was said to them?

[j5cochran]

Per Wikipedia's article on Priest-penitent Privilege:

Quote

According to former U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice, Warren Burger, "The clergy privilege is rooted in the imperative need for confidence and trust. The... privilege recognizes the human need to disclose to a spiritual counselor, in total and absolute confidence, what are believed to be flawed acts or thoughts and to receive consolations and guidance in return."

A pastor has a duty to hold in confidence any information obtained during a counseling session. A pastor who violates this trust might be on the losing end of a suit for an invasion of privacy or defamation.

Quote

It is essential to the free exercise of a religion, that its ordinances should be administered—that its ceremonies as well as its essentials should be protected. Secrecy is of the essence of penance. The sinner will not confess, nor will the priest receive his confession, if the veil of secrecy is removed: To decide that the minister shall promulgate what he receives in confession, is to declare that there shall be no penance...

The First Amendment is largely cited as the jurisprudential basis. The earliest and most influential case acknowledging the priest–penitent privilege was People v. Phillips (1813), where the Court of General Sessions of the City of New York refused to compel a priest to testify. The Court opined:A few years after Phillips was decided, People v. Smith distinguished the case on the grounds that the defendant had approached the minister as a "friend or adviser," not in his capacity as a professional or spiritual advisor. As with most privileges, a debate still exists about the circumstances under which the priest–penitent privilege applies. The capacity in which the clergyman is acting at the time of the communication is relevant in many jurisdictions.

It varies by state as to who qualifies as clergy and what kinds of communications fall under the privilege.

 

(I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on television.  However, I've found Wikipedia as a good starting point for research on topics that are not political or inflammatory.)