S05.E07: O Come, All Ye Thankful

[Trini]

22 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Also, what happened to the built in to the suit defibrillator that Cisco used to have installed?  It's not like this is the first time he's been shocked in the field.  

I thought about that too, but then remembered that this new suit is from the future and not made by Cisco.

 

24 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

What was the wand from?  I knew it wasn't WW but I still haven't figured out where it was from.

Cisco made it to be used against Weather Wizard in 1.15; then he made it again and Barry used it against WW in 2.09.

[steelyis]

On 11/28/2018 at 7:22 AM, adora721 said:

Did you notice the weird eye acting? Like he went full overacting with the raging, squinting eyes in his final scene in the episode. It was so first year acting student version of a villain acting.

 

And it was amazing! I sat there after his fist clenching, eye-twitching, raspy growling "I'll get you, Gadget!" declaration and I just marveled at the sheer glory of his overacting. It was smell the fart level acting and I'm not too ashamed to admit I loved every second of it.

It was transcendent!

 

Oh, Nora, I want to care about your problems, but I don't care about your problems.

[sarthaz]

On 11/28/2018 at 11:28 AM, Brinny said:

I literally cannot seriously watch Chris Klein in anything since seeing this: 

(Major trigger warning if you get secondhand embarrassment. It’s quite cringey.)

Also, was there a reason this episode didn’t air prior to Thanksgiving?

I literally cannot seriously watch Chris Klein in anything since seeing him "act" for the first time 20 years ago. I don't understand how the man has a career.

[Commando Cody]

Gracie, sitting in the principals office - holding the rabbit, made me think of little Parker, from Leverage - walking away as the house blew up. 

I wanted Nora to return to the future, pretty much the moment she arrived. They aren't doing anything with her character that has caused me to change my mind. I don't think she would exist in the future if she went back to it. She changed too much of the time line by her arrival.  I think she can exist now because she has been taken out of her own time. She now exists in the current time line. The chances of her parents conceiving her at the right moment now, is pretty much zilch, but I guess that's up to the TV writers. 

I will be happy when Sherloque, or whatever the spelling is, goes. I don't like this incarnation. I think it's the accent. 

[immortalfrieza]

On 11/27/2018 at 8:23 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

I don't understand why Barry didn't just take the staff from Joss ?  He can move superfast, she can't because she has no meta powers.

On 11/27/2018 at 8:56 PM, tennisgurl said:

 I am confused about why exactly Barry didnt just grab the staff from Joss? He has super speed, right?

That is one of those things the viewer just has to learn to ignore if they want to enjoy this show at all. For most of the run of this show Barry could beat anyone short of another speedster in literally less than a second if he used his powers remotely intelligently and at the levels he's been demonstrated to be capable of. I mean, last season he moved fast enough that he was able to make a nuclear explosion look like it wasn't even moving while running around Central City to have lengthy (through speeding them up too granted) conversations with almost all of Team Flash and STILL be able to cancel out of the explosion over what to the viewers looked like just under an hour.  The fact that Barry can't deal with any situation he encounters effortlessly makes no sense and hasn't since pretty much the show's second year, you just got to let it go in the end.

 

Quote

Their logic is fault from the start of course, as being all "metas destroyed this and they all need to die!" considering not only is Cicada a meta, but a team with several metas stopped more people from getting hurt. 

What's sad is the logic of Cicada and the doctor makes plenty of sense, it's just the twisted way they go about it that makes it wrong. Metas caused every catastrophe that Central City has ever faced, let's break it down:

• The world destroying black hole. 
• Zoom's reign of terror then nearly destroying all reality.
• Savitar own brand of chaos thanks to Barry screwing with time.
• The Enlightenment and the subsequent fallout from that.
• Thanks to Thrawne's time travel shenanigans with this timeline even the creation of Metas to begin with.
• Not to mention all the miscellaneous Metas running around killing people, stealing things, and committing other crimes, and like Weather Witch there's even the odd second rate Meta who isn't even one of the Big Bads yet is powerful enough to destroy Central City and attempts to do so.

All this, and the number of Metas that have been actually helpful or even just not evil could be counted on barely more than 1 hand. Sure, it's a group of Metas that stopped these other Metas from causing this damage or helped reduce it, but that wouldn't be necessary if there weren't Metas to begin with. It's a perfectly logical conclusion to make that the world would be better off without Metas after what has happened. The problem is how Cicada goes about it, deciding to just murder any random Meta he notices, something that he could spend the rest of his life trying to do and never come anywhere close to eradicating all Metas.  Any sane person or at least anyone who realistically actually wanted to accomplish that goal would try to work out a way to depower Metas across the globe so that they are human again, restoring the world to what it should be. However, lip service aside getting rid of all Metas isn't what Cicada actually wants to do, he just wants to vent his rage towards Metas for what they did to Grace and his own self loathing by murdering as many Metas as he can because he can, regardless of what he says.

On a side note, who wants to bet Grace got turned into a Meta at the Enlightenment? She's even in a coma just like Barry was for months when he got his powers.

[Trini]

31 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

On a side note, who wants to bet Grace got turned into a Meta at the Enlightenment? She's even in a coma just like Barry was for months when he got his powers.

I think there's a good chance of that happening.

[slayer2]

I see Chris Klein's acting hasn't improved. My god but he's terrible. Loved, loved loved everything and everyone else. Iris was so cute as the weather hologram and the fact that Harrison is awesome in every incarnation makes me so happy. Also and as always, Cisco and Harry for the win. I love this combo so damn much, etc etc it's nice to see Killer Frost again, and it seems very little to no Ralph which made me happy. Oh Chris Klein, oh awful Chris Klein. I agree with whomever said Barry's new costume sucks. It's the mask that bothers me, boy does he look like a pinhead now, I kept yelling, "Take that thing off" everytime he was on screen.

 

Y'all if you haven't seen Chris Klein fuck up Kristin Kreuk's chance at badassery in Legend of Chun-Li, let me gift you with something...

Merry Christmas 

He's always been terrible, but he seems to be simply getting worse. Those last few lines this episode made me long for the Thinker, hell I'd even take the Emo Savitar over this dude, nevermind Savitar was pretty brill .

Edited December 3, 2018 by slayer2

[legaleagle53]

21 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

That is one of those things the viewer just has to learn to ignore if they want to enjoy this show at all. For most of the run of this show Barry could beat anyone short of another speedster in literally less than a second if he used his powers remotely intelligently and at the levels he's been demonstrated to be capable of. I mean, last season he moved fast enough that he was able to make a nuclear explosion look like it wasn't even moving while running around Central City to have lengthy (through speeding them up too granted) conversations with almost all of Team Flash and STILL be able to cancel out of the explosion over what to the viewers looked like just under an hour.  The fact that Barry can't deal with any situation he encounters effortlessly makes no sense and hasn't since pretty much the show's second year, you just got to let it go in the end.

 

What's sad is the logic of Cicada and the doctor makes plenty of sense, it's just the twisted way they go about it that makes it wrong. Metas caused every catastrophe that Central City has ever faced, let's break it down:

• The world destroying black hole. 
• Zoom's reign of terror then nearly destroying all reality.
• Savitar own brand of chaos thanks to Barry screwing with time.
• The Enlightenment and the subsequent fallout from that.
• Thanks to Thrawne's time travel shenanigans with this timeline even the creation of Metas to begin with.
• Not to mention all the miscellaneous Metas running around killing people, stealing things, and committing other crimes, and like Weather Witch there's even the odd second rate Meta who isn't even one of the Big Bads yet is powerful enough to destroy Central City and attempts to do so.

All this, and the number of Metas that have been actually helpful or even just not evil could be counted on barely more than 1 hand. Sure, it's a group of Metas that stopped these other Metas from causing this damage or helped reduce it, but that wouldn't be necessary if there weren't Metas to begin with. It's a perfectly logical conclusion to make that the world would be better off without Metas after what has happened. The problem is how Cicada goes about it, deciding to just murder any random Meta he notices, something that he could spend the rest of his life trying to do and never come anywhere close to eradicating all Metas.  Any sane person or at least anyone who realistically actually wanted to accomplish that goal would try to work out a way to depower Metas across the globe so that they are human again, restoring the world to what it should be. However, lip service aside getting rid of all Metas isn't what Cicada actually wants to do, he just wants to vent his rage towards Metas for what they did to Grace and his own self loathing by murdering as many Metas as he can because he can, regardless of what he says.

I'm beginning to see why Legends of Tomorrow has metas and religion banned in 2023 and metas being hunted down, imprisoned, and tortured in concentration camps by ARGUS by 2042!

[Al Herkimer]

I think the opening scene of this episode was one of their best yet... Caitlin and Barry sharing some friendship time, with both actors making use of the chemistry between them to hint that there might be something more there.  until the ball and time-travelling chain show up to spoil the mood, that is.  The plot did a decent job of making Cicada sympathetic, even as we see the bitterness of Iris mocking her aunt's generosity of spirit by using her for to get a cheap laugh from Barry's friends.  The deftness with which the lead actress portrayed the shift in personality from Caitlin to new fan-favorite Killer Frost in the last part of the story was amazing as usual.  Next episode should be interesting.  Hard to see how Nora hasn't changed her own timeline in a big way, though.

[Trini]

Candice Patton is the Lead Actress.

But I agree with you that Caitlin could be more to Barry one day. Maybe in the future she might finally be trusted enough to babysit Nora, so Barry can have a date night with the past, present, and future love of his life, Iris.  :)

[BeautifulFlower]

11 hours ago, Al Herkimer said:

I think the opening scene of this episode was one of their best yet... Caitlin and Barry sharing some friendship time, with both actors making use of the chemistry between them to hint that there might be something more there.  until the ball and time-travelling chain show up to spoil the mood, that is.  The plot did a decent job of making Cicada sympathetic, even as we see the bitterness of Iris mocking her aunt's generosity of spirit by using her for to get a cheap laugh from Barry's friends.  The deftness with which the lead actress portrayed the shift in personality from Caitlin to new fan-favorite Killer Frost in the last part of the story was amazing as usual.  Next episode should be interesting.  Hard to see how Nora hasn't changed her own timeline in a big way, though.

Lol, that Barry and Cait scene was mostly Barry talking about his family.

 

Quote

until the ball and time-travelling chain show up to spoil the mood, that is.

Wow, insulting Nora and Iris. How mature of you. How can they spoil a mood? Is that not Iris house?

 

Anyway, you're clearly a bitter SB shipper. Yes, I said bitter as anyone could tell by your choice of words. Get over it. Barry loves Iris. They're together on every earth, multiple timelines, and different realities.

[Starry]

3 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Lol, that Barry and Cait scene was mostly Barry talking about his family.

Barry wanted to make Thanksgiving special for the West-Allen family. It was adorable. And so was his big smile when the most important women in his life came back home.

Time to make use of the ignore button. Supporting a crack ship is one thing. Maliciously degrading an actress and making up stuff about a character and a couple because you're mad your fave is not in the spotlight goes beyond a difference of opinion. 

[Trini]

Getting in a few re-watch thoughts before the next episode:

Man, they love reminding everyone that Ronnie is dead!

It was great that Iris got to talk about her feelings and fears about Barry's close calls. Now they just need to have Iris and Barry have a conversation about it. Also great wordless acting by Candice in the scenes where Barry almost died. I guess they're waiting until they're closer to the Crisis, but they really do need to address how Barry will deal with his disappearance in the future.

There were actually a lot of good West-Allen family moments here. (Could have been more if JLM was around.) The trip to the prison was a West-Allen family outing! Nice scenes with Barry and Nora; Jessica Parker Kennedy broke my heart! But also glad that she got to express her feelings. Lots of good heart-to-hearts. Although Nora asking Barry to stop being the Flash seemed... unrealistic? Obviously that wasn't going to happen, and I don't know that that is what Nora really wants or what she really expected him to do.

 

On 11/27/2018 at 9:23 PM, miasth said:

Nora expresses her wish to save Barry and he was not even fazed by it.  So I guess he no longer concerned about her changing the timeline.  I suppose that has been implied since it has been said she has changed things, yet no one has suggested she leave.

They really need to address this, but ... they're not. *sigh*

And yeah, Weather Witch being able to escape from two speedsters twice was super dumb. It would help several things if they put more thought into the villains of the week.

So when are we getting "Run Nora, run"??

So Killer Frost is here for random comic relief now? I guess.

I really liked the backstory for Cicada, but the lightswitch turn from grieving foster parent to metahuman serial killer was a little silly.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 12:58 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, that doctor is totally worse than Orlin, right? She's not just provoking him, but she's encouraging him to be that person and is aiding in his criminal activities. I mean, Orlin is obviously fairly bad, but we now see where his motivation lies. With the doctor, we know she hates metas but not why and we have seen her actively participate in helping Cicada. 

On 11/28/2018 at 11:32 PM, DearEvette said:

That doctor is soo shady.  Why, though?  What's in it for her? Why is she compromising her ethics for him?

Now this I find intriguing. Obviously, nobody is happy about metahuman criminals running amuck in the city, but this doctor (credited as Dr. Ambres) knows what Cicada is doing and is enabling him. Are they planning that she's a bigger part of this story? Will they expand on her motivations? This is the first time that a major villain has had an ally, but it's not like a minion/henchwoman/sidekick.

If they wanted to, they could even delve into anti-metahuman sentiment in the city, but I don't think the writers are that ambitious.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Trini

[dkb]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:56 PM, tennisgurl said:

I actually think that the doctor is just as much of the villain as Cicada is, if not more. She seemed to put the "it was all the metas fault" idea into his head in the first place, and now she is aiding and abetting his murder spree. Cicada seems to have cracked a bit after his niece was put into a coma and he was injured, whats her excuse? Did putting people back together after meta fights drive her to hate them all? Their logic is fault from the start of course, as being all "metas destroyed this and they all need to die!" considering not only is Cicada a meta, but a team with several metas stopped more people from getting hurt. 

 

On 11/28/2018 at 4:16 AM, thuganomics85 said:

It was at least a bit interesting seeing that it was the doctor that planted the anti-meta stance in him.  She might be more dangerous than she is letting on, at the moment.

 

On 11/28/2018 at 12:58 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, that doctor is totally worse than Orlin, right? She's not just provoking him, but she's encouraging him to be that person and is aiding in his criminal activities. I mean, Orlin is obviously fairly bad, but we now see where his motivation lies. With the doctor, we know she hates metas but not why and we have seen her actively participate in helping Cicada. 

 

On 11/28/2018 at 11:32 PM, DearEvette said:

That doctor is soo shady.  Why, though?  What's in it for her? Why is she compromising her ethics for him?

 

On 12/4/2018 at 2:30 PM, Trini said:

Now this I find intriguing. Obviously, nobody is happy about metahuman criminals running amuck in the city, but this doctor (credited as Dr. Ambres) knows what Cicada is doing and is enabling him. Are they planning that she's a bigger part of this story? Will they expand on her motivations? This is the first time that a major villain has had an ally, but it's not like a minion/henchwoman/sidekick.

If they wanted to, they could even delve into anti-metahuman sentiment in the city, but I don't think the writers are that ambitious.

 

I think that is what they are going for; Cicada is just the tool that the Doctor is using to promote her hatred for meta's. In my mind, she is a villain too.

That would be more interesting then just Cicada alone. I guess she just got really tired of operating on all the victims of meta attacks like she said.