Here's Your Tinfoil Hat; What's Your Conspiracy Theory?

[Trick Question]

Here's an interesting thing I read on another website (so naturally, big grain of salt) and it may not be a real 'conspiracy,' but it kinda of fits into this topic.  Apparently tribes have been known to throw challenges on a semi-regular basis in order to get a certain person eliminated, and the reason we're never shown most of these on the show is that usually the trick works.  The ones that make air are the ones that blow up in the throwers' faces --- i.e. Drew this week.  This is done since the producers naturally want to get over the competitive aspect of Survivor and don't want a bunch of future tribes openly throwing the games.

[loki567]

I could believe it, but I think there are multiple times where a winner has come from a throwing tribe and the editors didn't hide the fix. They might hide the winner's involvement or make sure to get a confessional of, "I don't think we should throw," from them. Hell, they even showed the time in CI where Ozzy got his tribe to throw a challenge and his narrative that season was the Ultimate Competitor. 

 

Can anybody think of any examples where they might have hid a thrown challenge? 

[choclatechip45]

 

Can anybody think of any examples where they might have hid a thrown challenge?

I've heard a lot of speculation that Hayden threw the Immunity Challenge in Episode 2 of the original Blood vs Water. Apparently, Hayden and Kat had hand signals if they were not doing well in their tribes and thought they would be eliminated and Kat threw a signal to Hayden before the challenge started. I doubt Hayden would of told his tribe that, but he could of mentioned it in a confessional.

Edited October 17, 2014 by choclatechip45

[jsm1125]

I'm probably stretching here, but I believe that Tracy from the original Fans vs. Favorites season thought that her swapped tribe (consisting of Chet, Erik, Ami, Ozzy, Amanda, and Cirie) threw at least one of the immunity challenges to get rid of her. This wasn't seen on the show, but she had implied as much in post-show interviews. I've always wondered about that.

Edited October 17, 2014 by jsm1125

[henripootel]

Can anybody think of any examples where they might have hid a thrown challenge?

Quite certain I know of one.  During the season Rob Mariano won, his team seemed hell-bent on getting him the million.  I remember one of his alliance mates named Grant winning an individual immunity challenge and as he did so, actually apologizing to Rob.  Like he'd done something disloyal, but It was an athletic challenge and while Rob was a fair-to-middling normal guy, Grant had recently been a wide receiver for USC.  

 

I think it was the next immunity challenge (or soon there after) was one with a big staircase which you had to run up and down repeatedly.   Grant made an early mistake and was quickly like 2 or 3 laps back.  How this played out was made difficult to tell due to editing, but I watched carefully and several times, and here's what seemed to happen.  Grant made up lost time like nothing and was soon right behind Rob (who was out front) and should have easily passed him by midway.  But he didn't.  Rob started to struggle and (to his credit) really hung his guts out there to keep going.  But as Rob slowed down, Grant slowed down.  Grant looked tired but Rob was basically crawling by the end, but Grant never caught up so Rob won.

 

Now this wasn't someone throwing a challenge in order to boot somebody, but I still think it counts.  It didn't really change anything (Rob had an immunity idol and a strong alliance, so was in no actual danger) but it was edited to make it not clear what happened.  I don't even know if Rob knew what'd happened, but it played well into the narrative that Rob really deserved to win a million dollars (after many tries) rather than that he was greatly aided by a team of hand-picked helpers.  I mean seriously, they seemed to be having trouble finding film of Rob's Zombies talking about anything other than competing for second place.

Edited October 18, 2014 by henripootel

[Jersey Guy 87]

I think there's a difference between throwing an individual immunity challenge (when you believe you're safe) versus throwing a tribal challenge which forces you to then vote out someone from your tribe.  Richard Hatch famously threw the final immunity challenge in his first season and won.  Strategically, it was the right move (he knew Rudy couldn't outlast Kelly and that Kelly would take him to the finals.  He considered Rudy a bigger threat in the final tribal council and knew he would lose Rudy's vote if he voted him out).  Others have basically bailed on individual immunities when they knew they couldn't win or there was some incentive they felt worthwhile (usually food, of course) for dropping out.  I'm sure that people who feel they are safe from being eliminated don't always give it their all in individual challenges.

 

Throwing a tribal immunity, though, seems to never work out.  You put yourself down numbers for no good reason.

[henripootel]

Throwing a tribal immunity, though, seems to never work out.  You put yourself down numbers for no good reason.

I think you have to be careful of the narrative the producers put out.  For instance, on Russell Hantz's last season, there was talk about his team throwing the very first challenge in order to boot his ass out ASAP, and they did in fact lose that challenge and boot him.  This was (IMO) the entirely sensible thing to do, not the least of reasons in that it infuriated Jeff, but also because Hantz had shown himself to be disruptive to his tribe even when he had no specific goal in mind other than creating chaos.

 

It was not, however, clear (subject to memory here) that they actually did throw the challenge or even had to, as they subsequently lost several other challenges.  In those, the sides were kept 'equal' for the challenge and it was never clear that Russell was some sort of challenge-monster that they'd be fools to part with.  This didn't stop Jeffy from going on and on (and on) about how this act was pretty much the reason the tribe floundered and did poorly overall.  This wasn't even remotely true.  They lost plenty of challenges all by themselves, which is why they went into the merge weak, not because of this one challenge which they may or may not have intentionally shanked.

 

This leaves us with a biased (and dare I say self-serving) impression of the game.  I think they show such things if it fits the narrative they'd developed, else they just ignore it.  In this case, they'd brought back the Great Player Hantz and he went out first, so it could only have been a result of base trickery.  My guess is that there have been many other such incidents but the producers just ignored them because it didn't fit their story lines.  So we think this rarely happens, and when it does happen, it's a disaster.

Edited October 21, 2014 by henripootel

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

I'm having difficulty finding a way that this season's tribe swap could have been rigged unless there was something marked on the buffs' wrappers or something else (not so) subtle that couldn't be revealed because of all the non-disclosure clauses in everyone's contracts.  However, I'm finding the way the new tribes ended up with one almost exclusively blood and one almost exclusively water to be suspiciously convenient and related to the season's BvW theme.  Is anyone else finding it suspicious?

[Nashville]

I'm having difficulty finding a way that this season's tribe swap could have been rigged unless there was something marked on the buffs' wrappers or something else (not so) subtle that couldn't be revealed because of all the non-disclosure clauses in everyone's contracts.  However, I'm finding the way the new tribes ended up with one almost exclusively blood and one almost exclusively water to be suspiciously convenient and related to the season's BvW theme.  Is anyone else finding it suspicious?

Not really. We're talking an even equal division of five whole couples and four remainders. An "ideal" split (i.e., one where all groupings are evenly divided) would have resulted in each tribe having two whole couples, two remainders, and one person who is half of a split couple. The resultant draw was only two people off that ideal (one of Blue's couples getting swapped with Yellow's two remainders), which could easily be accounted for by the random factor.

[NutMeg]

I don't find it surpicious but would have preferred if they all had to pick from the same bag. Potential of no/limited changes is more interesting to me than potential for half goes here, half goes there.  

[henripootel]

Is anyone else finding it suspicious?

Always, but I agree with Nashville the numbers are too small to be sure of anything.  I will say that I'm surprised at how little the whole Blood v Water thing adds.  Jeff keeps wanting these decisions of Team vs. Loved One to be wrenching, and they're kinda not.  Even the chick who just got booted said having her dad around was at best a mixed blessing.  Way to bleed out the drama of Family Visit day, which used to be genuinely touching.  They exchanged a bit of honest emotion for, near as I can tell, pretty much nothing.

 

As to how they could have fixed this without us knowing - I'm not sure scouring for clues in what we see on tv will yield anything.  Plenty of times people have seen things that raised eyebrows (one season, Jeffy seemed to be using two bags of buffs, which would mean your new tribe depended on which bag he held out for you ) but my guess is that it's simply be too easy to hide chicanery here.  Editing could hide plenty, reshoots if necessary, and they could always streamline the process and simply have Jeff say 'teams were chosen randomly' (which could mean anything, hence, nothing).  But just because it'd be easy for producers to hide their fingerprints doesn't mean we shouldn't sift for them, of course, nor does absence of evidence = evidence of absence. 

[henripootel]

Tony was shown as an outstanding player -- I totally believe that btw -- but who won only thanks to one of the dumbest moves in Survivor history.

I think Tony excelled in one capacity only (possibly the most important one) - he sucked up relentlessly to the producers.  His over-the-top THs, his completely ridiculous 'spy hut' - all 'producer gold'.  And Tony got paid for it, most obviously with the Super HII which requires no strategy to play, and the non-announcement by Jeffy about how long it's good for (which seems to have saved Tony's bacon when it was most likely cooked).  

 

And about that 'dumbest move in Survivor history' - either Wu did something that he knew perfectly well was game suicide when he had absolutely no reason to do so or ... Wu was incentivized to do something he knew to be absolutely stupid.  Who would be in a position to offer such an inducement?  I'm now making book on Wu getting a return invite for a future season, and his edit being all about 'redeeming himself' for his 'stupid move'.  This is one of those things that makes no sense at all unless you consider 'producer manipulation', then it makes a great deal of sense.

[kikaha]

Henry, you think that Wu would have beaten Kass... won the million dollars... his name in the books as sole survivor s28... but instead chose 2nd place and 90% less money, for the incentive of a return invite? 

[kikaha]

btw, Spencer  thought Tony played an outstanding game -- and Natalie, in her pre-season interview, said the player she is most like is not Parvati, but Tony. 

[henripootel]

Henry, you think that Wu would have beaten Kass... won the million dollars... his name in the books as sole survivor s28... but instead chose 2nd place and 90% less money, for the incentive of a return invite?

How sure could he be that he was gonna win?  Did they do some straw poll at the reunion on this?  Not sure I believe those things but it'd be interesting to know.  If Wu thought he was gonna lose to Tony or Kass, then he didn't give up anything, and he may have gained something valuable.  That, of course, remains to be seen.

btw, Spencer  thought Tony played an outstanding game

He surely did - he gave the producers pretty much everything they could want, including a likable winner.  But when push came to shove, I think Tony was in peril so production put their thumb on the scale.  Don't get me wrong - Tony won so he 'deserved' to win, but I've long suspected that courting the producers is a necessary component of a good game strategy.  I wasn't completely sure until Tony the Cop - now I'm sure. 

[kikaha]

Pretty sure the straw vote at the reunion showed Woo beating Kass, by a lot.  Jeff called it the million-dollar mistake.   

[henripootel]

Pretty sure the straw vote at the reunion showed Woo beating Kass, by a lot.  Jeff called it the million-dollar mistake.

Well, if the after-season straw poll is right (a very big if) then it looks like Woo, if he did do a deal, didn't do a very good one.  Really don't see them building a whole season around Woo like they did for BRob or Cochran.  

 

And Jeffy also said Rob and Russell were 'two of the best players ever' when they were collectively 0-5.  Jeffy says a lot of things.

Edited February 4, 2015 by henripootel

[Trick Question]

Woo vs. Kass would've been quite a final tribal council.  On the one hand, you have someone who was quite well-liked but everyone thought he was an airhead and nobody respected his game.  On the other hand, you have someone who inarguably had a better sense of what was happening in the game and made some good moves to further herself, yet she was wholly disliked by virtually everyone.  I think Woo still wins --- I can't see the majority of voters holding their nose to give Kass a million dollars.

 

I also doubt the 'Woo went to F2 with Tony to ensure a return visit' theory since why wouldn't Woo think he'd be a good candidate to be invited back anyway?  If anything, being a past winner would raise his profile and chances at another invite.

[henripootel]

I also doubt the 'Woo went to F2 with Tony to ensure a return visit' theory since why wouldn't Woo think he'd be a good candidate to be invited back anyway?

I'm not totally sold on it either but truth be told but I found Woo boring as toast, and I got the impression that the editors did too.  I mean he got an okay edit and decent screen time but I can hardly remember a single thing he did (aside from 'find' a clue in someone's pants).  And who knows what Woo thought of Woo's chances of a return invite but not many people get them, so a guaranteed return might be worth something.  Full disclosure: I have nothing solid (from a leak or whatnot) that any of this is true but hey, tinfoil hat.

Edited February 8, 2015 by henripootel

[henripootel]

And who knows what Woo thought of Woo's chances of a return invite but not many people get them, so a guaranteed return might be worth something.

Not for nothing but Woo got back on.  My tinfoil hat is vibrating.

[choclatechip45]

I don't buy the Woo theory. Tony would have been tv gold for a second chances season if he lost. Imagine tony, kass, spencer and Tasha all on the season?

[henripootel]

I don't buy the Woo theory. Tony would have been tv gold for a second chances season if he lost. Imagine tony, kass, spencer and Tasha all on the season?

Oh, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Tony either.  He, at least, was somewhat amusing, albeit a relentless producer suck-up.

[choclatechip45]

Oh, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Tony either. He, at least, was somewhat amusing, albeit a relentless producer suck-up.

I don't think so either. I just think if you would want to ensure Woo or Tony loosing for them to come back it would be Tony not Woo

[henripootel]

I don't think so either. I just think if you would want to ensure Woo or Tony loosing for them to come back it would be Tony not Woo

True, but I think the producers would rate a satisfying end to a current season way ahead of a maybe-satisfying return invite.  Tony the cop made a much more attractive winner - he was likable, hustled a lot, and his silly antics played right into what the producers think of as 'big players'.  No coincidence that, Tony played to them shamelessly.  Woo was ... there, mostly.  Nice enough guy but the producers seem to want winners to be 'worthy' of it in a very particular way and Tony fit that bill, even if he did (IMO) require a bit of intervention to complete the narrative.  

[choclatechip45]

True, but I think the producers would rate a satisfying end to a current season way ahead of a maybe-satisfying return invite. Tony the cop made a much more attractive winner - he was likable, hustled a lot, and his silly antics played right into what the producers think of as 'big players'. No coincidence that, Tony played to them shamelessly. Woo was ... there, mostly. Nice enough guy but the producers seem to want winners to be 'worthy' of it in a very particular way and Tony fit that bill, even if he did (IMO) require a bit of intervention to complete the narrative.

I can see that. According to Monica's Rhap interview they approached her around South Pacific for a fan voted season so this is an idea they've had for awhile. I would imagine having Kass, Spencer and tony for a second chances idea would have been more attractive.

[KimberStormer]

They could easily have edited Woo up to a very satisfying win if he'd won.  I'm sure of it.  He's not a boring guy.

[Daisy]

i think my biggest conspiracy theory was when Jeff did not announce this was not the last time to use the Idol. and what irritated me about it was that no one (not even Ross, Rob C(RHAP/Know It Alls), Dalton Ross) called him on it. (or if they did I totally don't remember). It just irked me because that was something that was always said and for it not to be said, it was like, seriously, dude?

(I also have a big pout-on for Micronesia not being a Final 3). I honestly think these things should be announced sooner not like SURPRISE! (but i firmly believe Cirie wins that season if she is anywhere close to the finals so... some resentment there)

[henripootel]

what irritated me about it was that no one (not even Ross, Rob C(RHAP/Know It Alls), Dalton Ross) called him on it. (or if they did I totally don't remember).

I think what Jeff 'explained' is that 'he didn't want to interfere', and if he made the usual announcement, it would have upset Tony's strategy (of lying by saying the super-HII was still usable).

 

What those guys failed to call Probst on is that this is utter horse shit.  By failing to act, Probst kept Tony in the game.  To be fair, these guys all have jobs they like, and 'Rob Used to Have a Podcast' sounds less interesting.

[choclatechip45]

i think my biggest conspiracy theory was when Jeff did not announce this was not the last time to use the Idol. and what irritated me about it was that no one (not even Ross, Rob C(RHAP/Know It Alls), Dalton Ross) called him on it. (or if they did I totally don't remember). It just irked me because that was something that was always said and for it not to be said, it was like, seriously, dude?

(I also have a big pout-on for Micronesia not being a Final 3). I honestly think these things should be announced sooner not like SURPRISE! (but i firmly believe Cirie wins that season if she is anywhere close to the finals so... some resentment there)

The whole Cirie thing really made me loose interest in Survivor for awhile because she is my favorite player of all time. I think the producers really screwed that one up I've always said that Cirie would have been the most popular winner they had up to that point and would have brought a ton of positive PR to the show.

[BigRedCheese]

 

i think my biggest conspiracy theory was when Jeff did not announce this was not the last time to use the Idol. and what irritated me about it was that no one (not even Ross, Rob C(RHAP/Know It Alls), Dalton Ross) called him on it.

 

Dalton did bring it up, Jeff suddenly had a bad memory and couldn't remember if anything was said about it or not.

[Daisy]

The whole Cirie thing really made me loose interest in Survivor for awhile because she is my favorite player of all time. I think the producers really screwed that one up I've always said that Cirie would have been the most popular winner they had up to that point and would have brought a ton of positive PR to the show.

 

 

I hear you. I love Cirie, and quite frankly I don't know/buy if this "had" to happen to make the Jury make sense or whatever they made it out to be but it seriously messed up her game. I cried when she dropped her ball because I knew there was no way Amanda or Parvarti were going to take her to the finals. I think we were robbed of a really great Final Speech by Cirie. (and I also think a lot of what Cirie did in that season gets lumped to Parvarti). double bah. 

 

Dalton did bring it up, Jeff suddenly had a bad memory and couldn't remember if anything was said about it or not.

 

 

oh then my apologies to Dalton (thanks for that FYI). It just really irritated the snot out of me because HIIs have been around since Season 11, and Jeff never, ever not said it until that game - or since. bah. 

[choclatechip45]

 

I hear you. I love Cirie, and quite frankly I don't know/buy if this "had" to happen to make the Jury make sense or whatever they made it out to be but it seriously messed up her game. I cried when she dropped her ball because I knew there was no way Amanda or Parvarti were going to take her to the finals. I think we were robbed of a really great Final Speech by Cirie. (and I also think a lot of what Cirie did in that season gets lumped to Parvarti). double bah.

Whenever I rewatch Micronesia I'm always surpirsed Parvati always gets credit for Cirie's move. Pretty much the reason why I don't buy into the Parvati hype.

[kikaha]

i think my biggest conspiracy theory was when Jeff did not announce this was not the last time to use the Idol. and what irritated me about it was that no one (not even Ross, Rob C(RHAP/Know It Alls), Dalton Ross) called him on it. (or if they did I totally don't remember). It just irked me because that was something that was always said and for it not to be said, it was like, seriously, dude?

 

 

Are you sure Jeff always said that, every single season?  I agree he has said it before.  Curious to know if in fact Jeff made this announcement in every other season with HIIs. 

 

I know that in some seasons, contestants could use the HII at F4.  Terry did, e.g., in Panama.  In Cook Islands Yul offered the HII to Becky at F4: it would have guaranteed her a place in F3.  So whatever Jeff said or didn't say, what Tony was claiming had been done before.  On top of which, it had been announced that this idol had special powers known only to the person who found it.  I thought it was clever of Tony to use that to bluff his way further. 

 

It's a mistake to believe that because something has done before on Survivor, it always will be done.  The producers have changed dozens of things, without letting anyone know ahead of time.  They add new twists, it seems like every other season.  That breaks no rules. 

 

Also, nothing stopped the other players from asking Jeff if Tony was right.  Spence is both smart and a superfan.  If he takes another player at his word -- especially Tony -- I think that's his problem.  Not Jeff's.  Same with Kass. 

 

 

I think what Jeff 'explained' is that 'he didn't want to interfere', and if he made the usual announcement, it would have upset Tony's strategy

 

Can you refer me to the article where Jeff said that? 

[BigRedCheese]

Here's a link to Dalton bringing it up, Jeff didn't seem to remember not saying it, but felt it was still clear to everyone.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2014/05/15/survivor-cagayan-jeff-probst-finale-changes

[Oholibamah]

I haven't really given it that much thought (and am thus open to be convinced otherwise) but A) Tony made the Idol's expiration part of his strategy, so production is presumably expected to not reveal that proactively and B) Jeff only alludes to Idols when everybody in the game knows they exist and they've become a topic of discussion at Tribal Council. Because this was a "special" Idol with "hidden powers" I could potentially buy the expiration going unannounced, but I don't remember what was discussed at Tribal when.

As was noted, players can ask for clarification on game rules at any time. If they did and were turned down, then... Yikes. But for my sanity I will pretend they did.

Regardless, I doubt Tony was actually in any danger that episode, anyway.

[henripootel]

Can you refer me to the article where Jeff said that?

I honestly can't but I have a clear memory of reading it in print from Jeffy.  Sorry.

Regardless, I doubt Tony was actually in any danger that episode, anyway.

If memory serves, he absolutely was.  If we believe the narrative we were shown (a VERY big 'if'), Spenser was essentially in charge of who got voted out next, wondered aloud why Jeffy never said anything about Tony's super-HII expiring.  So he decided to not vote against Tony because it'd be a waste (since the super HII could be played after you just got voted out).  This even though (again subject to memory) he was pretty hot on Tony going out.  I seem to remember Spenser also saying that he didn't ask for a clarification even though he could have, which I'm not so sure I believe but hey, tinfoil hat. 

Tony made the Idol's expiration part of his strategy, so production is presumably expected to not reveal that proactively

Okay, so what-say that I make it part of my strategy that 'Jeff told me secretly that I get a head start at any immunity challenge I want'.  Should production stand by mutely while I take my head start?  They have done similar things in the past (given an advantage) so it's not wholly unbelievable that they could have given me one, and it's now part of my 'strategy' to win.  Should Jeff 'stay out of it' and let me do this?  

The producers have changed dozens of things, without letting anyone know ahead of time.  They add new twists, it seems like every other season.  That breaks no rules.

It breaks no rules because there are no rules, only what the producers say, which they can change even right in the middle of a challenge.  That's not tinfoil hat stuff, that is, I believe, in the agreement players sign.  In this case, Jeff 'changed a rule' that had an effect on gameplay (Spencer changed who he got voted out), and which benefitted one player and one player only, Tony the cop.  If there is no level playing field then there is no 'game' in the strictest sense, just what the producers want.  Just sayin'. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by henripootel

[kikaha]

henri, exactly what rule did Jeff change?

[henripootel]

henri, exactly what rule did Jeff change?

Sorry, I was using word a bit loosely.  The rulebook they give players specifically states that the producers can change any part or procedure at will, without limit.  Jeff merely exposed the fact that the 'rules' (in small quotation marks, indicating a non-standard use of the word) aren't really rules at all, not for production anyway.

 

He changed a procedure knowing full well (I'd think) that Spencer would read into this lapse, and did.  Surely behind Spencer's logic in this was something like this: 'Well, Jeff didn't say the super-HII expires at the same time as HIIs do, and he always says something, and there's no way he'd omit this just to benefit one player at the expense of others, so...'  Spencer was likely framing his reasoning from a 'level playing field' notion which is clearly incorrect.  

[kikaha]

HIIs have been used at F4 before.  So when Tony claimed he could use his special idol then, he wasn't requiring any change in past Survivor procedure.

 

Is it 100% a fact that, before S28, Jeff always announced the last time an HII could be used?  Answering that will mean someone goes through every season with idols, and checks. 

 

btw, here's what Spence said about Tony's ruse: "I did know that there was no way producers would make an idol that guarantees you a spot at final Tribal Council, but I thought it was possible that there would be one that would guarantee you a spot in the Final 3 if it was a Final 2. So he definitely duped me with that. There's no other way to describe it."
 

[henripootel]

Is it 100% a fact that, before S28, Jeff always announced the last time an HII could be used?

I honestly don't know.  I've been perusing some of the old seasons on Amazon and he was pretty chatty about them in the past.  This was also discussed when the season aired and IIRC there was some consensus that nobody could remember him leaving this out before.  

I did know that there was no way producers would make an idol that guarantees you a spot at final Tribal Council

I also don't recall whether or not Spencer gave a definitive answer on why he didn't just ask.  If production was being above-boards on the rules, a two minute conversation would've cleared this right up.  I'm not too sure I consider post-game Spencer a reliable source anyway - his AMA on Reddit (which he did with Tony) seemed to have a very conciliatory tone, specifically about anything potentially controversial.  For instance, I think Spencer implied that Woo (to the best of his knowledge) didn't do something stupid when he took Tony to FTC, Tony actually talked Woo into it.  So Tony didn't win because he was the beneficiary of 'the stupidest move in Survivor history' (in Woo's words), Tony was actually a master manipulator.   Uh ... maybe.  Or maybe the game is over and Spencer finds no reason to piss off production by skiing off piste.  

[KimberStormer]

Yul's idol got him into F3.  One reason it was total baloney.

[henripootel]

Yul's idol got him into F3.  One reason it was total baloney.

Wasn't this back when the HII could be used after the votes were read?  A horrible twist that, requiring no strategy at all to use.  I missed most of the early seasons but I assume everybody who had such an idol a) announced it immediately, b) didn't use it, and c) coasted into the finals.  

Edited June 3, 2015 by henripootel

[kikaha]

henri, yes, Yul could use his idol after the vote.  And so could Tony.  Which made Tony's fib even more believable, to Spence and Kass, both real smart players.  . 

[henripootel]

henri, yes, Yul could use his idol after the vote.  And so could Tony.  Which made Tony's fib even more believable, to Spence and Kass, both real smart players.

I think Tony's 'Tyler Perry' HII came with the added instruction that he was forbidden from giving it away, meaning a block of granite gifted with the idol would also reach the finals.  I really hope Jeffy stops reading Tyler Perry's tweets. 

 

I agree that Spencer in particular is pretty smart, way too smart to have not asked for clarification about Tony's idol and when it expired.  No doubt he was told that this was yet another feature of the TP HII - the rules which govern it were known only to the one who has it.  Which guarantees that an especially stupid block of granite with the idol would coast into the finals.  I know I'm being reticent here but this was not my favorite 'twist' of all time.

[ProfCrash]

They changed the idol rules after Yul used it to protect his entire alliance. While it seems like an obvious strategy now, Yul was the first to use the idol in that fashion and the idol had been in play with similar rules for a few seasons at that point. I don't think the Producers saw that type of play with it and were surprised when Yul used it so perfectly.

 

Tony;s idol was Yul's idol with a few protections on it. He couldn't share it and it had to be used by the fifth to last tribal. I do think that it is BS that Jeff did not answer Spenser's question on whether Tony could play his idol past final five tribal council. It is a valid rules question and one that should have been answered. I get that Survivor wants to allow the big play and would consider Tony's bluff a part of that but the big play is only valid if everyone knows the rules of the game. Tony knew the rules and was trying to circumvent them. Spenser didn't.

 

At the very least there needs to be a basic rule that all special abilities have to be used by X tribal council. If there is a special ability that can be used past that tribal council it will be announced.

[kikaha]

I do think that it is BS that Jeff did not answer Spenser's question on whether Tony could play his idol past final five tribal council. It is a valid rules question and one that should have been answered.

 

 

Spence asked Jeff about this?  I completely missed that.  I thought Spence did NOT ask Jeff. 

[Jersey Guy 87]

I think Tony's 'Tyler Perry' HII came with the added instruction that he was forbidden from giving it away, meaning a block of granite gifted with the idol would also reach the finals.  I really hope Jeffy stops reading Tyler Perry's tweets. 

 

I agree that Spencer in particular is pretty smart, way too smart to have not asked for clarification about Tony's idol and when it expired.  No doubt he was told that this was yet another feature of the TP HII - the rules which govern it were known only to the one who has it.  Which guarantees that an especially stupid block of granite with the idol would coast into the finals.  I know I'm being reticent here but this was not my favorite 'twist' of all time.

 

Somehow, I think Dan would have misplayed it.

[ProfCrash]

I remember Spenser asking at Tribal if the idol could be used and Jeff didn't provide an answer. I could be misremembering.

[kikaha]

Prof C: I'm OK with Jeff not announcing last use for that idol.  I'm not OK if someone asked and he didn't answer.  Until you brought this up, I was 100% sure that never happened. 

 

Anyone know for sure? 

[fishcakes]

Spencer didn't ask Jeff about it. He had a confessional where he specifically said that he didn't ask Jeff but that he should have.