The Best and Worst of One Life to Live

[Apprentice79]

23 minutes ago, UYI said:

I have to say, that while she and MA may not have gotten along that well (not that any of us know for sure), I've never believed that that or even necessarily how the character of Jessica during her last year or so on the show was the reason why she left. Remember, she had been on the show since she was 9 years old--all of her teen years were spent on the show. She was nearly 22 when she left. I think it's clear she wanted to move on and do something else, and in that Jeff Giles book, she talks about how hard it was to sign another contract at 18, because she was beginning to feel the desire to leave, but knew for sure that she wouldn't sign another once she was 21, and that Erika Slezak encouraged her to go out and experience other things while she was still young and had the chance to do so. Maybe what happened with Natalie and Jessica (and Mitch) was a motivating factor, but I definitely don't think it was the primary cause. And save for the two guest appearances she made on OLTL in 2008 and 2011, she really didn't act much afterwards before retiring to focus on singing, and then on her husband and son. 

Speaking of which, I have a feeling she was the one who insisted she sing Sheryl Crow here. Erin always said she was her favorite singer in interviews.

 

The character of Jessica deserved respect by the writing teams, she was marginalized in favor of Natalie.  Jessica was  to One Life to Live what Robin is to General Hospital. Legacy characters that deserved front burner stories where they drove stories.   Jessica being the only biological child of Clint and Viki made her special in my opinion and Natalie ruined that.  It was an unnecessary retcon that hurt Jessica in the long run.  I will always love Jessica for hating that degenerate Sloane, when Viki got with him.  Viki was never the same after her affair with Sloane. She was so smug and self-righteous throughout her relationship with him.  I was team Dorian and she was right in hating Sloane. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Apprentice79

[dubbel zout]

The sexual-abuse retcon damaged the character of Jessica much, much more than bringing on Natalie as her twin did. IMO, the DID crap ruined Jessica. It turned her into a victim that everyone had to tiptoe around, as well as giving her a free pass for everything her alters did. Awful, awful, awful.

[BBHN]

Not to mention it was lazy AF. And we already got so many better DID storys with Viki.

[TeeVee329]

56 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The sexual-abuse retcon damaged the character of Jessica much, much more than bringing on Natalie as her twin did. IMO, the DID crap ruined Jessica. It turned her into a victim that everyone had to tiptoe around, as well as giving her a free pass for everything her alters did. Awful, awful, awful.

100% agree.

I also hated the pattern that developed under Ron of Natalie being at least partially responsible for Jessica's splits - keeping the Jared secret, keeping the Chloe secret, etc. - that reinforced Jessica's victimhood.  And instead of letting Jessica as herself get mad at Natalie, which would have been much more interesting, it was always straight to trampy, campy D.I.D. town.  Boooooo.

[Melgaypet]

Bree Williamson apparently loved playing Tess, which, sigh. I never know how much weight to give that kind of thing - I get why Tess would be more fun to play than constant weeping or sexual assaults, and actors are allowed opinions like anyone else - but I think if RC/FV weren't interested in the Tesscapades, BW's preferences wouldn't matter, no matter how much of a favorite she might have been.

What I do know is that it's weird when an actor's preferred modes go against their own strengths as an actor. I don't know what that's about. BW was not good as Tess. She was good at playing an angry or grieving Jessica. Those scenes with Natalie after Nash died? I felt her rage. She was also good at playing Jess... I'm not sure how to describe it. It felt fake and saccharine when Jess was supposed to be overly sweet, but when she was just...being a person, I guess, she was believable.  Especially when she was the calm, cool counterpoint to fiery Natalie.

Kristen Alderson was another one. She reportedly preferred the sweet young heroine  stuff. Put aside the fact that Starr should never have been that, KA was terrible at it and her talent and/or skills devolved playing those stories. I think the ingenue role is deceptively difficult to play. Erin Torpey could do it, KA could not. She noticeably improved when Starr was written with some bite.

[dubbel zout]

I get why BW preferred Tess, and I don't think BW was bad playing her. For me the problem was why Tess existed and how Jess never truly had to answer for what Tess did. The DID overall was handled extremely poorly, and Ron went to that well far too often when he was out of ideas.

[Melgaypet]

Oh, I absolutely hate the DID retcon. It was both gross and impossible and, like I've said before, the worst thing to ever happen to the character of Jessica. (ETA: It tainted other characters, too. Viki, obviously. Clint, who managed not to notice his wife's alter dragging his little daughter out to bars at night. Ditto Kevin, who was, of course, very sorry.) Granted, she had already been near-ruined by being turned into Antonio's dimwitted girlfriend/unpaid nanny, but surely there were better ways to move her on from that than a nasty kiddie porn backstory and alters. That's on Higley, but Ron should have left it alone. If he absolutely had to do his own spin on DID (he didn't), he absolutely should have left it alone after the truth about Chloe and Hope came out. I mean, Viki would often go years without an alter showing up, right? Because Viki was a strong character as herself.

But, no, I don't think BW was good as Tess, or at least that she got worse every time Tess showed up. She mugged and pouted and sneered and it all felt hollow to me. Sure, you could say that maybe that was fitting for a personality fragment as opposed to an actual person, but, honestly, I think that's giving her performance too much credit. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Melgaypet

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

she got worse every time Tess showed up. She mugged and pouted and sneered and it all felt hollow to me.

I agree with this. The first few times we got Tess, BW was fine. But then Ron ran out of ideas and Tess became way too campy in a way that didn't work with why she was there in the first place.

[TeeVee329]

2 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

She [Bree Williamson] was also good at playing Jess... I'm not sure how to describe it. It felt fake and saccharine when Jess was supposed to be overly sweet, but when she was just...being a person, I guess, she was believable.  Especially when she was the calm, cool counterpoint to fiery Natalie.

I remember really liking Jess in late 2009/early 2010 because, like you said, she was calm and cool without being sugary or a pushover and did delightfully counterbalance Natalie in a number of fun scenes.

Below is a perfect example.  Jessica and Natalie show up at Clint's to check on him/have dinner with him and are HORRIFIED when they find Kim there.  And their reactions are so note-perfect, with Jessica being all, "I'm concerned about this, dad, but I'll listen to what you have to say" while Natalie is all, "You let a STRIPPER move in, what the hell?!?!".

Them showing up at the precinct to read Nora for her affair with Bo also ruled:

Edited May 25, 2017 by TeeVee329

[Melgaypet]

Jeez, Bo. Please don't equate you and Nora with that fool and Gigi. But yeah, Natalie and Jessica made a fun team. I so preferred them on the same side instead of at odds. I wish that Nora/Twins scene could have gone on longer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was it for the three of them addressing this issue. I expected them to be cool with Bo&Nora eventually - that was fine - but it happened so fast.

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, Melgaypet said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that was it for the three of them addressing this issue. I expected them to be cool with Bo&Nora eventually - that was fine - but it happened so fast.

Yeah, I don't think it ever really comes up between Natalie/Jessica and Bo/Nora again.  I was honestly surprised that this confrontation happened, though I think part of it was that they wanted Natalie and Jessica at the police station when Mitch was marched back in.

[UYI]

12 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

 

Kristen Alderson was another one. She reportedly preferred the sweet young heroine  stuff. Put aside the fact that Starr should never have been that, KA was terrible at it and her talent and/or skills devolved playing those stories. I think the ingenue role is deceptively difficult to play. Erin Torpey could do it, KA could not. She noticeably improved when Starr was written with some bite.

I could get annoyed at Starr when she was a kid--she could be a HUGE brat--and I could see her calming down a bit as she got older, but the show went WAY too far in the other direction. 

I love this scene with Starr and Asa. KA was 10 years old and keeping up with Phil Carey!

"Why would someone like me have an EVIL twin?"

Well, you DID actually have a twin, as it turned out.

[tessaray]

Aww... the clip of Asa and Starr was perfect for both characters. 

[UYI]

Max's final scene, October 27th, 2003. The Luna stuff makes me barf, of course, but otherwise I think it's a great little scene. And the wink at the end gets me every time. I'm so happy JDP is back in daytime again.

Was this their only love scene following Gabrielle's 2001 return? I think it was.

[BBHN]

Max and Gabrielle should have both left the show together shortly after this scene.

[UYI]

That scene breaks my heart. It hurts to think how much of the show featuring them may have been edited out because Frons didn't see their appeal. Whatever. 

[drtslim]

I'd really like to see their story in order from the beginning.  I've looked for playlists on youtube but haven't found any with clips that go back beyond 1989.

[BBHN]

Here's as good a place to start as any...

[UYI]

23 hours ago, drtslim said:

I'd really like to see their story in order from the beginning.  I've looked for playlists on youtube but haven't found any with clips that go back beyond 1989.

There are some from 1987 and 1988, but the quality varies depending on the uploader.

[BBHN]

Tina and Cord's first wedding, which was surprisingly drama free.

Edited August 19, 2017 by BBHN

[UYI]

They were planning a big wedding, but Maria and Clint were both opposed, so they ending up eloping to get it over with already. 

[Caracoa1]

Does anyone remember the storyline in 1991 of Jane and Doug Ebert!  I believe she was a battered wife trying to escape her husband...Jane was played by a beautiful actress named Catherine Christianson

[Melgaypet]

2 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

Does anyone remember the storyline in 1991 of Jane and Doug Ebert!  I believe she was a battered wife trying to escape her husband...Jane was played by a beautiful actress named Catherine Christianson

I don't remember that at all, no. They must have been short-term. You got me curious, so I went looking and found a clip of this Doug person holding Viki and Megan hostage:

 

I couldn't find an image of this actress - who is listed on IMDb as Catherine Ann Christionsen, apparently there's another, slightly more well-known Catherine Christiansen - but I did find this: HOLY CRAP

[boes]

4 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

I don't remember that at all, no. They must have been short-term. You got me curious, so I went looking and found a clip of this Doug person holding Viki and Megan hostage:

 

 

I couldn't find an image of this actress - who is listed on IMDb as Catherine Ann Christionsen, apparently there's another, slightly more well-known Catherine Christiansen - but I did find this: HOLY CRAP

She only got one year??  Either she hired a toddler or even the judge didn't like her husband.

[Caracoa1]

She also played Dr Amy Stone on All My Children back in 1986.  I thought she was a wonderful actress but can't seem to recall how her storyline ended on One Life To Live back in 1991.

[UYI]

On 10/7/2017 at 1:56 PM, Melgaypet said:

I don't remember that at all, no. They must have been short-term. You got me curious, so I went looking and found a clip of this Doug person holding Viki and Megan hostage:

 

 

I couldn't find an image of this actress - who is listed on IMDb as Catherine Ann Christionsen, apparently there's another, slightly more well-known Catherine Christiansen - but I did find this: HOLY CRAP

That was when Michael Malone first started writing the show, in 1991, and tried to do a short-term story about domestic violence...starring characters no one had ever seen before; the story was wrapped up so fast, the 30th anniversary OLTL book from 1998 doesn't even mention them at all. Jane apparently worked with Luna at Wanda's Diner (Luna was a waitress before she got her Luna's Loveline radio show), and Luna noticed bruises on Jane and was concerned. I believe their last name was Eber, though, not Ebert. 

[jsbt]

Good times with cursing:

[UYI]

Nora and Tea fight behind bars after being held in contempt in court. Hey, Tea--you're being awfully quiet and evasive when Nora asks how you would know what it's like to be a mother. Anvils for days!

[UYI]

Adding this version of the 1984-1991 opening here because of the very beginning shot. If you know me, you'll know why I love it so much. ;)

[Mr.Lanny]

So I came to this show super late. I caught bits and pieces as a kid while my mom left the tv on for General Hospital. Didn't really bother to go back until back in 2012-2013 when Todd/Blair/Starr/Tea/McBain all went to GH for a bit. Gravitated towards Todd for "some reason". Went back and watched his storyline from the 93 Marty rape through the Tale of Two Todds. Really feel like his storyline was pretty much done after he feigned DID. He betrayed everyone once again and needed to go. It was kind of jarring seeing him return and being a bit of a computer wiz in the 2000's and tbh I didn't like the writing much then. There were a few good moments. When he had the wedding from Hell with Blair, but that's it. Didn't like Victor/Todd too much. Felt like they just wanted the character to be around so they could revisit all his old stories again with Marty and Powell and multiple rape trials.

Anyways recently in the last year I started venturing beyond that and I have to say I gravitated towards the late 80's. The show was gold then. I finally got why Max Holden was such a big deal, because I hated his guts in pretty much every early 2000's storyline with Todd. Might have become my favorite character. Thought his romance with Megan was really well done. Haven't yet gotten to much of the the Jake/Megan storyline (aside from already watching her death scene, which is one of if not the best SOAP deaths I've seen). But Max and Megan was crazy fun. Totally see why it ended though. Max and Gabrielle was white hot. I haven't watched too much Luna yet either so who knows. Everyone during that era was great though and they all had really distinct characters with nuances that were well thought out. Like how Megan would be this soft caring person when she was with Max or Vicki or anybody she was growing close to but would become "Ms the the revolves around me" soap actress whenever she was in public. 

I still have a ton to watch. Just wanted to say that I recently binged this thread and loved the videos and insight you all have had. It's really helped me get more of an understanding of the characters and where to see the storylines heading. If anyone has any good pointers, I'm all ears. Thinking I need to check out some of the Eterna storyline.

[UYI]

18 hours ago, Mr.Lanny said:

 

Anyways recently in the last year I started venturing beyond that and I have to say I gravitated towards the late 80's. The show was gold then. I finally got why Max Holden was such a big deal, because I hated his guts in pretty much every early 2000's storyline with Todd. Might have become my favorite character.

I adored him from the beginning. James DePaiva had an obvious charisma and was a chemistry magnet, whether with potential love interests or in friendships (I loved his surrogate mother-son relationship with Renee). And while I hate that he was written off, I have always loved his final scene from 2003 (well, his wink to the audience--the Luna blather not so much). 

 

And of course, when he came back for Asa's funeral in 2007, I was just thrilled. I only wish he could have returned one last time in 2011-2012, when the show left ABC.

...And then, after years of wishing for JDP's return to daytime, I finally get it last year on GH, except now he's playing a horrible letch, and I know everyone on the GH forum holds me responsible because I wanted it for so long. Be careful what you wish for, indeed. 

[tessaray]

I watched OLTL off and on from pretty darn close to the beginning but I didn't see every Todd era (jobs, real life before Youtube, etc.). His relationships with Vicki and Starr were what redeemed him in my eyes. It was fascinating to watch a truly reprehensible character build a real life, create real connections and it was just like Todd when he screwed it up again and again.  Even with Todd faking the DID, he and Vicki were so much alike in how they survived their Victor Lord legacy. (My HEA was the end of the PP version. GH?  La, la, la, I can't hear you.)

ARGH!!!  I don't miss OLTL daily anymore but all it takes is a post or two... :-(    

[jsbt]

The great Ellen Holly, now 87 - OLTL's long-lost black female lead, Carla Gray - speaks to the Television Academy. Many more parts at the link, but here's one:

[UYI]

God Bless her. I know she struggled/was devastated with her dismissal from the show for decades (and she may have been even sadder about Lillian Hayman's, honestly). I hope she has some peace in her life now. She deserves it. 

[danderson400]

the funniest moment at least to me was when Tina accidently said Cords name during her wedding to Max. I thought it was funny.

[John Carter]

My favorite male characters are Max Holden Bucanhan cause he had so much swag and cool and had shades of grey. RJ so under utilized but when he was look so intense. Victor and Todd Lord so compleing and Flawed. David Vickers Bucanhan so funny  always keep  me interested.Rex Bolsom Bucanhan love to be in his corner  despite  him self. John Mcvain dark but lovable.

[danderson400]

I remember Gabrielle leaving Michael at the altar when i was a child. Of course i rememebr Tina interrupting a wedding once, and the bride was played by the girl that was on Desperate Housewives. 

[Prairie Rose]

When OLTL was having its creative renaissance in the early and mid-90s, I was in middle school and then high school. At that age, it's especially easy to overlook performers in the "thankless" roles. Later on, you watch the episodes again and realize that they were the glue. I am referring to Bob Krimmer as Rev. Andrew Carpenter. He had to put up with so much - from his father's adulterous relationship with Viki to church gossip and especially Marty's shenanigans - but handled it all with class and grace. He was a good husband to Cassie (their wedding and honeymoon scenes were very tender and romantic), and even after everything Marty had put him through, Andrew never doubted that she had been raped and along with Cassie was there to help her out every step of the way. Bob Krimmer should have been Emmy nominated for his work, but he made it all look so easy that it was probably easy to overlook him in favor of flashier actors.

Of course, once writers like Malone/Griffith and producers like Gottleib/Bedsow-Horgan were no longer around, no one knew what to do with Andrew and the character eventually fell by the wayside. Both actor and character deserved better. 

[jsbt]

A decent sprinkling of fascinating eps from spring-summer 1992 are on YT - fairly early Gottlieb/Malone, back when they were still fully committed to Grace Phillips' Sarah Buchanan and Mia Korf's Blair.

 

They're pretty interesting stuff, and give some of us who weren't watching then a better sense of the timeframe on several storylines: NuSarah's pill addiction (and apparent crush on her shrink) came not long after her return from the dead and is already wrapped up by April or May, and now they've moved onto her and Bo reunited just in time for her to become the prime suspect in the Carlo Hesser murder case. Cain and Tina are getting a bit too intimate too fast for me after the recent demise of the love of her life in November(?). The reveal about Blair and Addie is slowly parceled out, and in early May Blair tells Max everything about who she is and where she came from while Elaine Princi's excellent Dorian tells Cassie harrowing stories about her childhood. I loved Kassie DePaiva's Blair and always will, but it's still unconscionable what OLTL pulled after Mia Korf quit to go back to the stage - I can't remember the last time any soap in America had as much of a commitment to an AAPI lead before or after Blair in '92, including any of the few Asian-American characters onscreen today. She is a central, incredibly important player in story, bouncing between Max, Asa and her vendetta against Dorian and for my money she is great. Simmering in early eps is Lee Ann feeling trapped in the Buchanan clan, spending more and more time with Jason Webb to Viki's consternation, and the slow disintegration of Asa and Renee as he becomes more infatuated with Blair.

Also present: The incredibly earnest and annoying "Maggie Vega" character, a Latino police officer they'd apparently intended to pair with Andrew (and you can tell in these episodes) until they failed to secure their planned hire (allegedly, Saundra Santiago post-Miami Vice and pre-GL) and Bob Krimmer turned out to have more chemistry with Laura Bonarrigo. Sloan Carpenter has only just arrived. And LaTanya Richardson, Mrs. Samuel L. Jackson herself, appears as the original Rodi who figures into the Hank Gannon/Sheila Price/Troy Nichols triangle. I have a lot of fondness for Terry Alexander (Troy) from his role in Day of the Dead, but he cannot compete with Hank. Hank comes on very strong and very broad in these episodes in a way that would not fly today - he is often a brash asshole, and they only take him down a few pegs in some of the subsequent eps here. The writing for Troy - pushing him as a stodgy, white-collar man who can't relate to Sheila or Hank's interests - feels a little too convenient and broad as well in that classic Malone way, in that I don't remember the Troy in episodes from '90?/'91 seeming too much like a stuffed shirt even if I also didn't find him too interesting. That said, Nathan Purdee does have great chemistry with Valarie Pettiford, who is the only Sheila I ever liked and I like her more the more I see her as an adult. You can see why Purdee quit Y&R for OLTL initially. I remember Gottlieb in an interview making much of their hiring Black writers for this story and saying they wanted to show two different types of Black modern men, for whatever that is worth. Either way, whatever peaks or valleys it has it doesn't feel like the "Black story" is an afterthought in these episodes.

I still like Grace Phillips a lot as Sarah, but that may be my anti-Jensen Buchanan bias. Either way, she clashed with Linda Gottlieb and was out not too long after all this big push. Either the BTS issues or unpopularity were strong enough that I believe she took most of the summer or fall off and then returned just in time to die within one or two episodes. (Nora had already been introduced a couple months before and begun sparking with Bo.) I'd love to hear more takes from those who've seen the eps, or those were there and remember more.

Edited January 28, 2023 by jsbt

[Melgaypet]

That first video: Mia Korf was really, really good. I especially liked when she stopped herself from crying, reminding herself that she was editor-in-chief of The Intruder (at what, 20-21 years old? Ah, soaps!). Maybe Max was justified in being so mad, but I wasn't on his side and I've realized I have very little patience for Max Holden hissyfits.

I was surprised to be on Lee Ann's side. I do love Viki and Clint and co, but I can see they and Llanfair could be very stifling and why she (who doesn't really want to be married to Kevin in the first place, not that that wasn't her own choice) pushes back. Fear not, I still hate Jason Webb. Shut up, Ponytail.

Doesn't Lee Ann think her baby is Max's? Hey, Holden, you're a grown ass man with a 6 year old, start sleeping with ladies no younger than 25, you look like a creep. I know, I know, It Was a Different Time™

[jsbt]

I like Jason Webb a lot myself. I thought they dropped the ball with him later on. I remember they reintroduced the social consciousness of the show quickly with him and Sheila in August and September(?) of '91 by having Jason shown working in the loading dock at the Banner where Kevin had to apprentice for his parents, and Jason the troublemaker convinces Kevin and I think Lee Ann to go joyriding with him. Not long after that there is a subplot where the monied ladies of Llanview object to Sheila starring in the local charity musical or whatever because she's Black - there is a beautiful scene with Valarie Pettiford and John Loprieno dueting together, and I believe Luna and KW's amazing Tina (who I will admit sometimes edges out Andrea Evans for me, because she melds Andrea's persona with the more conscious '90s so well) get involved. Slight material to pad out a slow period, but I thought it was sweet stuff. (The end credits here don't show Gottlieb or Malone, but I think that's simply because it's very early in the transitional period over August and September - I remember Gottlieb saying she cast Mark Brettschneider as Jason Webb, who's already credited).

I'm pretty sure Lee Ann knew Duke was Kevin's by the '92 eps but don't quote me (I also haven't seen the first couple of these eps in a month or two). I did find it very weird that they pushed hard on playing Yasmine Bleeth who read so young with both Maxes (Nicholas Walker and JdP) before and after the big creative switch in 1991. There were and probably still are a handful of Gottlieb/Malone eps from fall '91 online with Nicholas Walker still in the role of Max and still hot and heavy for Lee Ann. It's very weird. I'm not sure what his exit was like or how long there was in between his exit and JdP returning. I do know Lee Ann was still hung up on Max for a bit longer, with teen Kevin pursuing her and complaining about having to compete with the older man.

Not long after Gottlieb took over though, they had Lee Ann starting to move to Kevin and quickly brought in Luna and then Blair for Max, playing the long game with Max and Luna, so clearly they knew they'd be pulling away from Max and Lee Ann sooner than later. I thought it was a bad mistake not bringing a recast Lee Ann in in the 2000s to make trouble with Kevin, Kelly and an appropriately-aged Duke as opposed to over-SORASing and killing him.

They do a great job illustrating the haves and have nots with Lee Ann and the Buchanans, around the same time Viki first meets Sloan and is later tempted herself. I need to rewatch the material from late '91 where a fire burns Llanfair to a crisp, giving Gottlieb the excuse to remodel it; there was some wonderful Viki and Clint material during that, and it makes you wonder what the Clint/Viki/Sloan triangle would've looked like as originally planned, where allegedly Clint was to be the ultimate victor and Sloan would've presumably died earlier. This did not happen due to Clint Ritchie's tractor accident (and, I suspect, his well-known alcoholism which Linda Gottlieb cracked down on).

Edited January 29, 2023 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

Jason Webb I really only know as a name.  He was another of Dorian's younger men, yes?  And then Todd blew him up on a yacht or something?

[Melgaypet]

45 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Jason Webb I really only know as a name.  He was another of Dorian's younger men, yes?  And then Todd blew him up on a yacht or something?

Yes to the first question, no to the second. It was Guy Armitage who Todd (accidentally, sort-of) blew up on a boat. Jason left town with Lee Ann or followed her soon after. On his motorcycle, probably. For years I wrongly thought he was River's biological father, so I blamed all of River's suckassedness on him, heh. I just really never liked Jason and his stupid ponytail.

[TeeVee329]

6 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Yes to the first question, no to the second. It was Guy Armitage who Todd (accidentally, sort-of) blew up on a boat.

Ah okay I did some Googling and I think I got Jason confused with Suede Pruitt, who 1) is also basically just a name to me, 2) was also involved with Marty, as was Jason, and 3) was killed by Todd, but not in a boat explosion.

[jsbt]

4 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

For years I wrongly thought he was River's biological father, so I blamed all of River's suckassedness on him, heh. I just really never liked Jason and his stupid ponytail.

I can't recall if River's father was ever named. I do know Jason was in love with River's mother, who died of the weird virus floating around the hospital in '94. He kept striking out in love and then left town IIRC. River was another very poorly served character, lol.

They never fully pulled the trigger on Jason and Marty (or Kevin and Marty or Andrew and Marty, for that matter) and should've. But I also liked him and Dorian, pre-Joey. Speaking of: I think I've mentioned this before, but the soap mags from the period have the show claiming they originally considered pairing Dorian with Chris McKenna's Joey pre-Fillion. Chris McKenna is my favorite Joey (and is a very hot daddy today), but he was maybe 14-16 at the time of that being considered and looked younger. Obviously the network said no way. I think they were hoping McKenna would mature real fast, which is why they very awkwardly tested him with a visibly older Reiko Aylesworth (Rebecca) in '93 or '94 before letting him go.

4 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Ah okay I did some Googling and I think I got Jason confused with Suede Pruitt, who 1) is also basically just a name to me, 2) was also involved with Marty, as was Jason, and 3) was killed by Todd, but not in a boat explosion.

Suede Pruitt is a whole other situation, lol. It is beyond me why the show put Marty with him vs. the many other eligible men I just mentioned. He had a very convoluted Southern gothic backstory with Luna, but while that worked for Michael Malone sometimes Suede just did not for me.

Edited January 30, 2023 by jsbt

[marypat57]

Wasn’t Jason Webb the nephew of Wanda Webb Wolek?  He had some kind of learning disability, and never learned how to read well.

 

[jsbt]

2 hours ago, marypat57 said:

Wasn’t Jason Webb the nephew of Wanda Webb Wolek?  He had some kind of learning disability, and never learned how to read well.

Yep and yep. Lee Ann taught him to read.

[TeeVee329]

4 hours ago, jsbt said:

Suede Pruitt is a whole other situation, lol. It is beyond me why the show put Marty with him vs. the many other eligible men I just mentioned. He had a very convoluted Southern gothic backstory with Luna, but while that worked for Michael Malone sometimes Suede just did not for me.

What a name, Suede Pruitt.  I'm surprised there wasn't some kind of retcon where Suede slipped on a banana peel and poor, innocent Todd didn't kill him after all.

[Melgaypet]

14 hours ago, jsbt said:

He had a very convoluted Southern gothic backstory with Luna, but while that worked for Michael Malone sometimes Suede just did not for me.

Oh, god, I think some of this is vaguely coming back to me. He had been in prison for killing his wife who was Luna's doppleganger, except of course he was innocent because Virtuous Poor Person, and she helped clear his name? And he was a musician?

Then they put him with Marty, one of several Virtuous Poor People they put her with to try to tame her capability as a human wrecking ball. Like Jason and Andrew (okay, so I guess Andrew wasn't poor, but he was virtuous). They even had Billy Douglass be her friend and trying to talk her out of trouble, when by rights he should never have spoken to her again.

What I mostly remember about Suede is his curly dark mullet and that he had a chin like a butt.

[jsbt]

20 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Then they put him with Marty, one of several Virtuous Poor People they put her with to try to tame her capability as a human wrecking ball. Like Jason and Andrew (okay, so I guess Andrew wasn't poor, but he was virtuous). They even had Billy Douglass be her friend and trying to talk her out of trouble, when by rights he should never have spoken to her again.

What I mostly remember about Suede is his curly dark mullet and that he had a chin like a butt.

The Andrew/Marty thing, which was an undercurrent that ran over many years and stories long after the Billy Douglas mess, was less about virtue and more about sexual heat and sin IMO. It's been awhile since I've seen a lot of it so I can't be 100% but it seems like Marty was Andrew's ultimate temptation in those days, in a less uncomplicated way than his torch for Megan. I remember they teased an affair with Marty when he was married to Cassie, but didn't go for it.

Jason and Marty were just good together too IMO, and it wasn't about virtue either. Suede OTOH was ridiculous, though the writing for them got very, uh, impassioned.