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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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bijoux

bijoux

Imo B-Team was a failure. They weren't shown to be a well oiled machine. I didn't see a sense of camaraderie there nor did I see any trust or faith in the team. The way they were written, it just wasn't a good team. 

Cosign. However, having the part about Oliver and Felicity being a team within the team being actually, wonderfully true smooths my feathers on the matter considerably.

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

All the things Oliver told them to do were things they could have figured out themselves. So no...they didn't need Oliver immediately taking the reins. And Felicity volunteered..I doubt anyone asked her.

That makes them look better that they DIDN'T figure it out...how, exactly?  

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Cosign. However, having the part about Oliver and Felicity being a team within the team being actually, wonderfully true smooths my feathers on the matter considerably.

 

That was my highlight in the episode. Oliver and Felicity working together as if no 5 month vacation had happened [even while having differences, oh, hey], and figuring out how to solve the train problem between the two of them. Gimme more of this, show. Forever.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

I loved Oliver and Felicity being a team within the team.Tbh they were the only team who actually looked like they gave a crap about each other,were kind to each other and got things done.I love Diggle but his team looked like incompetent brats running around in masks doing cool badass stunts but getting nothing actually done.

So Oliver and Felicity were the only bright spot in the team dynamic for me.

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Guest

Guest

Well it's just Joe..and I think that's way overblown because how dare someone have a negative opinion of Oliver.

As for Oliver..they asked for his help not his leadership.

 

Um, pretty much everyone has hated on Oliver at some point on the show. We've had three seasons of him taking crap from people. Sure, some of it is understandable given his behavior but the guy also has PTSD and had been through the worst time imaginable. You'd think some might give him a break every now and then.

 

Oh and also, yes. They asked for Oliver's help. They don't get to dictate and demand HOW he gives them that help. 

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wingster55

wingster55

They asked somewhat impulsively. They didn't consider any options...and considering the city wasn't in flames I would say they did a good job for the past 4-6 months

And yes..they can dictate what they want Oliver to do..especially since it was intended to be a one and done.

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Guest

Guest

And yes..they can dictate what they want Oliver to do..especially since it was intended to be a one and done.

 

I disagree. You ask for someone's help, someone who is pretty damn reluctant to do it anyway, you take the help you're given. It's so rude otherwise. Like sure, we interrupted you and expect you to fly/drive back to the city to help us but actually we expect you to do it this way now. Um, no.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Um, pretty much everyone has hated on Oliver at some point on the show. We've had three seasons of him taking crap from people. Sure, some of it is understandable given his behavior but the guy also has PTSD and had been through the worst time imaginable. You'd think some might give him a break every now and then.

 

Oh and also, yes. They asked for Oliver's help. They don't get to dictate and demand HOW he gives them that help. 

But they have given him breaks throughout the show. Everything just started falling apart after he came back from "the dead" and things escalated with him keeping a big secret from them (mainly Digg). No one has been able to air their frustrations with him since he's been off living the good life.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

They can dictate what they want him to do, and then the whole expanded team can go ahead and continue failing, just like they were doing.

 

I mean, I'm even more pissed at Oliver than Digg (I'm likely never to forgive what he did in S3), BUT he is the one who knows what he's doing, and they obviously know he knows what he's doing, or they wouldn't have asked him back.  

 

This is really an absurd argument, honestly.  But it's a good reminder of why I so love the ignore user option on this site.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

But they have given him breaks throughout the show. Everything just started falling apart after he came back from "the dead" and things escalated with him keeping a big secret from them (mainly Digg). No one has been able to air their frustrations with him since he's been off living the good life.

What frustrations could they have with him since he's been away? He hasn't been around to frustrate them, and anyone who had anyone to say to him did that before he left.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Guest

Guest

But they have given him breaks throughout the show. Everything just started falling apart after he came back from "the dead" and things escalated with him keeping a big secret from them (mainly Digg). No one has been able to air their frustrations with him since he's been off living the good life.

 

I can't really recall many of these breaks. I know Diggle and Felicity have always been very understanding of him until s3 and I don't even want to get started on the reasons why that stopped happening in s3.

 

And I wasn't actually talking about them airing their frustrations at him. I was talking about how they refused to accept the way he offered them help and were basically bratty assholes. I know Diggle especially has probably been left to stew on his anger for months but the way they were all so dismissive of him was out of line, IMO. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I don't get this discussion. Team Arrowless DIDN'T give either Oliver or Felicity any orders whatsoever? They didn't want his leadership, but they didn't offer any instructions at all. So Oliver and Felicity did their thing, and solved the train problem.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I don't get this discussion. Team Arrowless DIDN'T give either Oliver or Felicity any orders whatsoever? They didn't want his leadership, but they didn't offer any instructions at all. So Oliver and Felicity did their thing, and solved the train problem.

 

It's more about how they acted after they asked for Oliver's help, that's the point I was making anyway but I'm done now! Sorry, I momentarily forgot who to ignore.

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wingster55

wingster55

(edited)

The whole issue is a Laurel thing, let's be real. Diggle being upset with Oliver has been noted. Thea's (for some) been let off the hook since she basically did what Oliver said, and tried to soothe things with "he'll come around". Who's left? Well gee...it's Laurel.

Edited by wingster55
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I love (almost all of) this part from the above WIRED article - however, I don't agree with the reviewer's choice of episodes that you can and cannot skip:

Best Character to Follow: This is going to be a strange pick because Stephen Amell is a mega-hunk, like chiseled from the finest marble in the world C-U-T. And as Oliver Queen, he’s carved out a brooding, affecting performance from what could’ve been man candy with a sleeveless hooded vest. But the best character to follow on the show is one who didn’t exist in the comics, Emily Bett Rickards’ Felicity Smoak. As the goofy IT girl, she starts out as the tech whiz who assists Oliver with some clandestine tasks related to his vigilante side gig. But once she’s brought into the fold, her loss of innocence and subsequent steeling makes her a great audience surrogate with just the right sense of humor. Without Felicity, there’s no way Berlanti would’ve spun off The Flash and the upcoming Legends of Tomorrow with the tones they have. There are some undoubtedly weak moments for her character—times when she’s a damsel in distress or too blatantly hangs on Oliver’s every word waiting for her chance to be with him—but she’s also the show’s one shining original creation, and one that makes Arrow very worthwhile.
Edited by tv echo
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Password

Password

I don't get this discussion. Team Arrowless DIDN'T give either Oliver or Felicity any orders whatsoever? They didn't want his leadership, but they didn't offer any instructions at all. So Oliver and Felicity did their thing, and solved the train problem.

Wow you know Felicity and Oliver really did solve everything.

Hahahaha hahahaha.

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wingster55

wingster55

(edited)

I love (almost all of) this part from the above WIRED article - however, I don't agree with the reviewer's choice of episodes that you can and cannot skip:

She's not original. I'm not sure if you bolded it for that or not.

Also I don't agree that she's the reason that the universe expanded.

Edited by wingster55
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

This entire article is worth reading, but I can only quote portions of it...

 

The Man Behind the Heroes: Mark Pedowitz Breaks the CW Out of its Niche
(This story first appeared in the October 13, 2015 issue of Variety.)
OCTOBER 14, 2015 | 10:00AM PT    Maureen Ryan
http://variety.com/2015/tv/features/mark-pedowitz-the-cw-the-flash-arrow-1201617084/

Since the 2011-12 season, the network has grown viewership by 27% among all viewers, and 13% in the 18-49 demographic....

*  *  *

But as fans of those series will attest, the genre element is irrelevant if the characters, their quests and their relationships don’t justify the audience’s investment. Loyal viewers haven’t spent more than 200 hours watching “Supernatural” because they’re curious about various methods of werewolf eradication.
 

“We always try to find the balance between what’s the big idea, what’s the hook that will get people to show up and watch the show, and what will keep them coming back,” says Gaye Hirsch, senior vice president of scripted development. For the CW, a show’s hook must be welded to emotionally rich relationships and ongoing conflicts that evolve every week.
 

“It’s not just who is Oliver fighting in Act 5, it’s ‘Why is he fighting that person? What are the emotional stakes?’ ” says Wendy Mericle, an executive producer of “Arrow,” which stars Stephen Amell as crime-fighter Oliver Queen.
*  *  *
“One of the great challenges I faced was there was a core audience there — a really strong female audience,” he says. “As you try to grow your network and slowly shift your brand, you have to keep sight of the fact that you don’t want to lose them.”
 

The shift began with “Arrow,” which combined action, heroic feats and the kind of smart relationship drama that Greg Berlanti, who developed the show with fellow exec producers Marc Guggenheim and Andrew Kreisberg, had displayed on the WB’s well-regarded “Everwood.”
*  *  *
“We’re allowed to go dark, surprisingly, on a network and on a show that can have a younger demographic,” Mericle says. “There are families who watch ‘Arrow.’ and we’re allowed to explore those issues without being prohibited. It’s testimony to the universe’s ability sustain that, and also to the network’s support.”

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

The article also says: "she’s also the show’s one shining original creation." Where does that leave a character like Diggle?

I didn't read the article, and no one here wrote it, so I suppose that's an issue you should take up with the author.

Edited by apinknightmare
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Princess Vanellope

Princess Vanellope

(edited)

I think what they're trying to say, and what tptb, as well as several cast members have said REPEATEDLY is thank god Felicity Smoak was written in. And thank god EBR caught the eye of the network execs. Here's the thing: Arrow would absolutely not have made it if not for bringing some levity to the show. Sorry, but the anti-chemistry of Laurel and Oliver, as well as the general doom and gloom of the show was noticed by critics. If you look at reviews from the first bit of season 1, the overall feeling wasn't exactly that the show was an overwhelming success. Steven and David have both said publicly how grateful they are that Emily showed up. So the likelihood that Flash or LoT would have been given a chance is higher because of Felicity. She made Arrow better. The EPs say so, the cast says so, the media says so. It may just be opinion, but it does seem to be an awfully popular one now doesn't it?

Edited by Princess Vanellope
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wingster55

wingster55

They would have found other ways to bring in levity. 

Sorry but I refuse to give credit for two shows being developed to ONE actress who isn't a regular on either. Especially since said person hasn't impacted the ratings in a positive way. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

They would have found other ways to bring in levity.

Sorry but I refuse to give credit for two shows being developed to ONE actress who isn't a regular on either. Especially since said person hasn't impacted the ratings in a positive way.

No one is really asking you to... Some people feel like Felicity had a lot to do with the success of the show, others don't. Let's all just agree to disagree and move on. No point in arguing about it because there is no right or wrong answer and no one can give concrete proof to their claims.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

(edited)

I can't speak for others, but personally Felicity is who has kept me watching the show and tuning into The Flash when she's there. I've never been a fan of dark storytelling/characters--that's why I can't stand the Nolan Batman movies--so while I liked what I saw on Arrow at the beginning of S1, I doubt I would have stayed through S2 and especially S3 without the lightness of that Felicity brings. I hear/see a lot of like-minded comments to that end, so I don't see the problem if some in the media say it too. It's true that people watch for different reasons but I'm not going to crap all over someone giving Felicity credit for stating something that I certainly know to be true in my own case. *shrug*

Edited by NumberCruncher
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

No one is really asking you to... Some people feel like Felicity had a lot to do with the success of the show, others don't. Let's all just agree to disagree and move on. No point in arguing about it because there is no right or wrong answer and no one can give concrete proof to their claims.

We should ask Cisco to look into a universe in which Felicity was not introduced on Arrow.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I watched Arrow up through the initial Helena arc, but when it was clear she wasn't going to be sticking around, I bailed. At that point there weren't any hints that Felicity was going to be more than just an occasional guest appearance, and I couldn't stand any of the regular characters, who were all dark, whiny, bitchy, or lecture-y. I hated the idea that L/O was the destined romance (I thought he had better chemistry with Helena).

I only started watching again in season 2, after hearing about the great Team Arrow dynamics and the hints that maybe Olicity would be a thing. Both factors were the result of Felicity becoming a regular, so yeah, I'm definitely one of the people that got back into the show (and stayed) because of her.

Edited by lemotomato
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Guest

Guest

THE DARKEST TIMELINE.

 

It makes me happy when I see other people that watched Community too. Evil Troy and Evil Abed!

 

 

I want to kiss you. 

 

Can we all wear matching goatee stick ons? 

 

 

If Felicity died we could start wearing stick-on goatees and make a plan to get back to the good prime timeline where she's alive. ;P

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Nothing spoilery...

 

'Arrow’ Co-Showrunner Wendy Mericle Explains Why People Still Want To Live In Star City
BY: ASHLEY BURNS AND CHLOE SCHILDHAUSE 10.14.15
http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/10/arrow-season-four-wendy-mericle-star-city/

“One of the things I’ve been constantly surprised by on the show is the amount of story,” Mericle explains. “We always start from the comic books, but we also diverge from them. I don’t come from a comic book background. I come from a more straightforward TV background. When we first started breaking stories on Arrow we would move through story really quickly. I remember in the beginning feeling surprised by it but also concerned that we would run out of stories to tell, which is something that is constantly in the back of your mind. That just never happened on this show. In fact, we had so much stuff that we had tabled and never got to. I remember season one we had a digital comic book series that we did with DC. It was a lot of work, but it was also rewarding because we got to put into story form and visual form all this really rich material that we did not have time to get to in the 43-minutes a week that we have. And we did 23 episodes, which is more than I’ve ever done on any TV series and we still don’t have enough space for the stories we want to tell. It’s kind of amazing.”
*  *  *
“Obviously Oliver is the lead,” Mericle says, “but fans really love Diggle and they obviously love Felicity, and the Black Canary has a huge following. When we want to pivot off and have episodes center around what would normally, on any other show, be considered secondary characters, it doesn’t feel that way to write them and I don’t think it feels that way to watch them. People really want to know. One of the big things that fans have been saying on Twitter and at Comic-Con and pretty much since Season Four was announced was they want more stories like Dig and Felicity. What’s really exciting about that is we’ve just barely scratched the surface with both of them, and that’s been one of the fun things with breaking and writing season four is we have so much story to tell and when you start to dig beneath and go past Oliver, there’s so much more to still explore.”
*  *  *
“[Oliver] is based in reality,” Rickards says. “He doesn’t have a super power, although he is a superhero. He’s a very skilled human being and I think that he’s gone through hardships and this idea that you can come out stronger on the other side. He’s clearly a little damaged [laughs], but I mean, that’s what his job is and he’s fighting his demons and helping take care of his city and, he hopes, the world. But having gone through such turmoil and hardships and coming out on top and finding his humanity again is something we can relate to on a smaller scale.”
*  *  *
“He’s very studious and he’s very dedicated to this story as a whole,” Rickards adds. “He understands the unique mind of what happened, and what happened in one episode with this person, this character, and he knows everything very well. He’s very meticulous like that. I think that clarity on the story as a whole, not just season one and not just season two, but being able to see the arc of his character go through is why he’s so good at playing Oliver Queen and why he’s such a great actor.”
Edited by tv echo
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