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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
in Arrow

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I guessed lawyer but I was looking for doctor or premed.  I just knew the other two were definitely not right for Shado so I convinced myself that it must have been the sister that was the doctor.

 

I too got the child question technically wrong, but yeah, the "boy" has not been confirmed.

 

Still, I got the team invite.  It wasn't the most difficult of quizzes though. 

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

I found this article from S1 again, Celina Jade talks about Shado being a lawyer. What's hysterical though is that she also talks about Shado being an only child because of China's strict birth policy.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3004646

I'm guessing that at one point in either S1 or when the character was planned she was a lawyer. However, that S2 episode goof/changed her profession in order to make the scene work. Just like in S3 Shado now has an identical twin sister that has never been mentioned before.

Basically, continuity on this show isn't worth squat.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

I got 9 (out of 12) correct, for a final score of 9-1/2 - enough for Oliver to want to recruit me to his team!...

 

Do You Know Absolutely Everything About "Arrow"?

Created byJack Stein on September 11, 2015

http://www.playbuzz.com/jackstein10/do-you-know-absolutely-everything-about-arrow?utm_source=Twitter.com&utm_medium=smff&utm_campaign=do-you-know-absolutely-everything-about-arrow

Didn't Shadow go to medical school and was a doctor?

 

ETA: never mind, should really read ALL posts before commenting!

Edited by foreverevolving
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

The pre-med this was mentioned again in S3 when Shado's twin asked Oliver how he knew her and he said Med School IIRC.

 

Yep. And it involved one of my favorite things that Oliver has ever, ever said on the show. 

Mei: "How do you know my sister?" 

Oliver: "Medical school." 

Mei: "She never mentioned any American friends. You are American, right?" 

Oliver: "I dropped out...of medical school, not America."

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)

Yep. And it involved one of my favorite things that Oliver has ever, ever said on the show. 

Mei: "How do you know my sister?" 

Oliver: "Medical school." 

Mei: "She never mentioned any American friends. You are American, right?" 

Oliver: "I dropped out...of medical school, not America."

It's a Felicity line, lol.   

Edited by BkWurm1
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kismet

kismet

I am proud that I got my invitation to the team (as I assume most of us did here), but let's just admit the quiz was flawed. It had 2 poorly written questions. The child gender one was just outright wrong, there has been no gender confirmation in the tv show. And the Shado question was a little misleading. There is some evidence that Shado was a lawyer (thanks to those who looked for it) but the show did not focus on that. Her profession off the island was barely incorporated into her story on the show. And the fact that she was pre-med was brought up in 3 different seasons.

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tarotx

tarotx

I couldn't find the Lawyer reference Last night but since I ended up watching it late cause Netflix/internet was acting up I'm going to try again today. I actually really enjoy the s1 and s2 flashbacks when they aren't dealing with the bad guys (even then when it's Slade). Fingers crossed S4 will have interesting Flashbacks :)

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manbearpig

manbearpig

I like the season two flashbacks as well. Shado, Oliver and Slade had a really fun dynamic going on, and adding Sara just really worked for me, then it all went to hell with Shado being killed off and Slade losing his goddamn mind. Wasn't so crazy about the rest of the flashbacks that season, and The Promise was just awful, pretty much thirty five minutes of things we already knew and a few good present day scenes. Sara was the lone bright spot of the second half of season two's flashbacks for me, the writers put her in some interesting situations. 

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Velocity23

Velocity23

KC interview with ComicBook (SDCC roundtable)

http://comicbook.com/2015/09/13/arrows-katie-cassidy-on-kicking-ass-working-with-team-arrow-and-/

 

 

One of the most often-repeated pieces of criticism about the return of Sara Lance in the upcoming seasons of Arrow and DC's Legends of Tomorrow is the notion that it will pull at the thread of character development for Laurel Lance, her sister and replacement as the (Black) Canary.

 

At Comic-Con International: San Diego this summer, ComicBook.com and a roundtable of reporters spoke with actress Katie Cassidy, who plays Laurel, about what Arrow's fourth season will look like for Laurel, what her connection to the Legends of Tomorrow might be and whether she's hoping for crossovers with her not-dead sister.

 

How's it feel to be at the first one of these big events where you can talk really openly about being Black Canary?

It's great and amazing. I'm like "Finally! I can say it!"

It's completely fulfilling. This character, this job, this world, this series has been a dream come true and I really wanted to do action and living in this genre, so I couldn't be happier.

Are you working out every minute of every day?

Every minute of every day? No! No, no. I've been working out a lot and really, really hard, but I think it's cool because it makes it that much more realistic and believable. It also feels good to be in good shape and to know that I could kick anybody's ass! [Laughs]

So do you do your own stunts?

I try and do as much as I possibly can. There are obviously...there's insurance involved sometimes, where I shouldn't be jumping off rooftops, which is fine by me, but as far as physically in the fighting, I do as much as I can or as much as they let me. I've been in martial arts training and stuff like that, and training with the [weapons].

Is it a relief to finally be a part of all aspects of the show?

Yes! You have no idea. It was a long time coming, but again I think it was the right thing to do. I think the writers wrote really well for me and it was more believable. As an actor, it was amazing because I wasn't in Season Two the Black Canary overnight. I had to go through hardship and it made it that much more believable and realistic and I was just doing what they were writing and it was that much more helpful for when I finally became Black Canary. It was more legitimate, if that makes sense.

What can you tell us about Laurel's arc this season, and where she's starting in the premiere?

You'll definitely see Laurel a lot more polished, and good at being a quote-unquote superhero. Obviously last season, she was a fighter, she's always been a fighter, but it was a lot more heart. This season, I think it's not just heart; she actually has been training and working on that aspect of herself, the going out at night. It's also been a big role to take on, along with Felicity and Diggle, to take Oliver's position, I think. Whether or not they're capable of doing that, you'll have to watch Season Four, but I definitely think Laurel will play a big part on influencing the creation of Legends.

Are you able to tell us anything about Laurel's awareness of Sara?

No! I can't tell you that! But I think that if Sara got to see Laurel right now, I think that she would be proud of her for all the hard work she's put in. I also think that she would be worried probably, because she loves her sister and doesn't want her sister to get hurt, but I think she would definitely be proud. I know I am!

Are you going to miss the bonding scenes you had between Laurel and Nyssa last season?

Absolutely! Katrina's awesome and I love working with her. I'm hoping she'll come back. It's still television, anything can happen. As of right now, [working with Merlyn] is what's happening, but I have a feeling there will be more to the story.

So you're having a lot of crossover with Legends, then?

I hope so. That would be awesome.
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Even though this Nerdist interview with MG was primarily about his new Jonas Quantum comic series, he had a few things to say about Arrow...

 

MARC GUGGENHEIM TAKES US INSIDE THE COMIC WORLD OF JONAS QUANTUM
POSTED BY KYLE ANDERSON ON SEPTEMBER 14, 2015
http://nerdist.com/marc-guggenheim-takes-us-inside-the-comic-world-of-jonas-quantum/

N: With TV, especially a show like Arrow which has so many characters, was it fun to just have a couple of characters? Basically issue one of Jonas is just a two-hander at times. Was it fun to just write bantery dialogue through the whole thing?

MG: Very much so. One of the things I love doing is writing bantery dialogue. It’s not something I really get a chance to do because Arrow is not a very banter-heavy show. Every now and again we’ll add another character for Felicity to banter with, but Oliver is certainly not that verbose. It’s very nice to take myself off the leash in that regard because I’ve always enjoyed writing sort of back-and-forth. There’s a lot of that in this series.
*  *  *
N: Just one last question — the obligatory Arrow question before I let you go: How has the season been so far? You broke the internet with the trailer last week, but how has it been from your end? How has your experienced been filming it?

MG: I’m not objective, obviously, but I’ve been really, really pleased with this year. We finished the first three years like a trilogy. This year, it feels the same and new at the same time. The newness has just been really invigorating, I think for everybody. The show really has an incredible scope this year. We’re all having a lot of fun writing the new, lighter tone. I think the actors are enjoying the dynamics. I think we’re doing a much better job than we have in the past of balancing all of our characters. We have a large ensemble, and I feel like everyone in each episode has their moment to shine, which is something that we’ve always wanted to get to. That’s always just a big challenge. I think we’re coming out of the gate really strong, and I really, really hope that everyone watches it and enjoys it. I think they will. I’m very optimistic about what people will think of the new season.

Edited by tv echo
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looptab

looptab

I know GreenArrowTv is not on this forum's favorite's list - nor mine, I just like to go and lurk in the "enemy's lines"- but what I found interesting is that they invited Laurel Brown to their season 3 roundtable, and that was..weird. Not that they invited her, but mostly what she said.

So she is now in my 'Don't actually trust her' list, along with that other gal whose name I can't recall who tweeted that was happiness and hope all around-or something similar-after seeing 'The Fallen'.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I know GreenArrowTv is not on this forum's favorite's list - nor mine, I just like to go and lurk in the "enemy's lines"- but what I found interesting is that they invited Laurel Brown to their season 3 roundtable, and that was..weird. Not that they invited her, but mostly what she said.

So she is now in my 'Don't actually trust her' list, along with that other gal whose name I can't recall who tweeted that was happiness and hope all around-or something similar-after seeing 'The Fallen'.

 

That's strange... She's usually positive about the show. what did she say?

 

ETA: Yeahhhhhhhhh, okay I read it.... I'm putting her on my 'don't trust' list now too :p Just everyone on that roundtable don't seem to like Arrow anymore lol I'll be interested to see if they change their tune in S4. 

Edited by wonderwall
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Sakura12

Sakura12

To be fair, most people didn't enjoy season 3 of Arrow. It was a depressing, disappointing mess. People probably want to hope it can come back and be like it was before but are approaching it with more wariness because of last season. 

 

I know the ratings were higher, but I don't think anyone would rate season 3 as their favorite season. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

I mean I agree with some of what she said... Disagreed with others. But in the end, she just doesn't sound like she has any more enthusiasm for the show which is why I don't trust her opinion anymore, I guess. 

 

I mean over here, at least I know people tend to criticize because we /care/ about the characters, but it just sounds like she doesn't anymore. 

 

Just to give you a hint on how that roundtable went, they had a whole section on Olicity... lol 

 

But the whole roundtable was extremely harsh on Felicity. Didn't recognize 'Palmer Island' being a thing and Felicity being cast aside just to make him and others happen. Didn't acknowledge her motivations. One guy essentially said Felicity's character was removed just to make her feelings for Oliver happen....... Which I think is completely false considering she felt more like herself when she didn't have to prop up Palmer and other...... characters.

Edited by wonderwall
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

The fact that people who didn't have much to say about the show otherwise but dedicated whole paragraphs (like, walls of text) to talking about Olicity made me LOL.

I do agree with whoever said that they work best when they're not being angsty or lovelorn for plot (paraphrasing here). That's why I always liked them. Their disagreements were natural and quickly resolved. Go back to that, please.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

I do agree with whoever said that they work best when they're not being angsty or lovelorn for plot (paraphrasing here). That's why I always liked them. Their disagreements were natural and quickly resolved. Go back to that, please.

 

I think Laurel Brown said that. She said that Olicity was a double edged sword and that they're best when they're acting natural. Which I agree with. She also said she's interested in seeing how they tackle their relationship. I'm actually interested in hearing her thoughts on S4 now. 

 

I think of one of the few things I disagreed w/ LB is that she said Laurel becoming a superhero when training w/ Nyssa was more believable. Imo when she started training w/ Nyssa I thought it was a good sign until she was able to go against 3 LoA members at hte same time. Nyssa is amazing. But she's not a miracle worker. 

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looptab

looptab

Yeah, I was mostly disappointed because she seemed very detached, and I don't know if that was because of the context, or she just exaggerate when writing her own articles to appease that portion of the fandom who brings her more clicks. Anyway, my problem here is, how can I trust your opinion on something, when you say one thing one day and the opposite the other? IDK. At least those other guys are coherent in their dislikes. Some of their arguments were fair, and even the things I disagreed upon made at least sense. Instead she just goes and say "Arrow must be first about the Arrow, and then other characters, so I really disliked 'Left Behind', cause he wasn't there". And I'm like, "Are you serious?!"

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kismet

kismet

I enjoyed the roundtable. A lot of the stuff that was discussed or said there was also said here in many different ways. Of course there was some stuff that I disagreed with, but overall I thought that each viewer gave an accurate perspective of their feelings on the show. A lot of their points felt in line with my own thoughts on the series. I was actually surprised when I was agreeing with some of the reviewers.

 

Season 3 was a rough season for the characters, as we have all said. Some of the harsh criticisms were warranted. But I do like that it seemed the reviewers made the caveats that it was not the character but the script & plot they were forced to to do that they did not like. Laurel Brown liking Ray Palmer's story was a shocker, but perhaps I blocked that out from her previous works. Other than that she seemed on point with what she usually writes. I don't know the other reviewers as well so I can't say if they were true to their usual writings.

 

Honestly, the roundtable was to discuss what worked & what didn't from s3. I don't think the reviewers have all lost their energy or interest in the show. I think they are just indirectly or directly expressing the fatigue from a not so good ARROW season. I enjoyed the writer (can't remember who) but he said that the ideas of s3 were good/decent, but the execution was bad. I think that could be the meta statement of s3. So many ideas were like yeah that might be cool, but then everything & everyone had to be pretzeled to make it happen. Characters & story arcs flip-flopped, people acted OOC. Plot became the driving force and that can be problematic.

 

There were some amazing points in s3, but overall the season was just not amazing. There are very few takeaway moments that I want them to bring to s4. The ratings were the highest because I think fans are invested in seeing where the story & the characters go. I don't think it means they approve of the season. The roundtable was harsh, but sometimes reality is harsh. Before I can put anyone on a "do not trust" list I think I have to see what they say in part 2 which is about s4.  It will be interesting to see where they all want s4 to go - that will give a better indicator of their interest level & desires about ARROW.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

For the most part the round table wasn't so terrible. Matt, the main Ksite reviewer still hates Felicity so I just ignored him for the most part. The only thing I felt the need to comment on (which I then did) was the continued assertion by Derek that Felicity was written as to only care about Oliver and was fine with risking the city. That I had to provide a counter point to.

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kismet

kismet

For the most part the round table wasn't so terrible. Matt, the main Ksite reviewer still hates Felicity so I just ignored him for the most part. The only thing I felt the need to comment on (which I then did) was the continued assertion by Derek that Felicity was written as to only care about Oliver and was fine with risking the city. That I had to provide a counter point to.

Yeah, he needs to let that go. He was the one that really hated the season finale, so I think its just part of bigger pile of hate. The only way I could think that people might have thought FS abandoned the city, is perhaps if they thought she needed to be there to help RP. I can't believe I am saying this, but I think RP was actually capable of handling that portion of the job on his own. But those scenes were so jammed that I'm not sure that message came through that at that point saving the city was a 1 person/1 computer job. FS essentially was without a job. I blame a lot of the misinterpretation of that scene on an overstuffed episode with forced editing at times. RP & FS also talk really quickly & not always clearly, so it's hard to always understand them if you're not used to their rapid fire rhythm. 

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Guest

Guest

To be fair, s3 was bad for every character concerned. I just think it's unfair when people focus only on Felicity and Olicity. It's like they're blind to the rest of the seasons' faults. 

 

All that being said, if the roundtable is on GATV, yes it's going to be biased. That's just fact at this point.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

The fandom life, it's a forever loop of confusing correlation with causation. I hate Character X, so it's obviously their fault that the season sucked. Because I hate them. DUH.

LOL I'd expect that from regular fans, but for people who run those websites and earn a living off of making recaps/reviews, I'd expect them to know better. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

LOL I'd expect that from regular fans, but for people who run those websites and earn a living off of making recaps/reviews, I'd expect them to know better. 

 

My counterargument is they only hate one character. I HATE FOUR. Four characters they spent a ginormous amount of storyline on. So by simple causation, S3 sucked way more for me than it sucked for them. FOUR CHARACTERS.

 

Five if I count DJ Douchebag out of my respect for @quarks.

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kismet

kismet

Felicity & Olicity were the sacrificial lambs lead to slaughter in s3 to make the writer's hopes & dreams about making a Batman story & a spinoff happen. It was wish fulfillment at the sacrifice of all of their characters. Felicity & Olicity were on the front lines because the writers chose to elevate & make them so prominent at very memorable points.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

The problem with S3 isn't just that it was stupid and boring and nonsensical, it's that it caused real harm to nearly all the characters.  If the characters had been acting like themselves but were stuck in dumb/weird plots, I would have blown it off and still enjoyed their interactions.  For example, I didn't care for the overarching plots of a couple seasons of Fringe, but I never stopped loving the characters, because even when they were stuck in nonsensical situations they were still recognizably themselves and rootable.  S3 of Arrow did long-lasting and severe damage to my love for nearly every major character.  I am hoping that S4 will be a real comeback, but I have an extremely good memory, and no matter what happens in the future the majority of the damage done to the characters will not go away.  If S4 isn't a real comeback, I'll just fade away as a viewer, like I did with Supernatural. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

None of Team Arrow should've been able to last long with the LoA, but they could've done that fight so much better! Have Laurel face them, get beat to a corner and use her Canary Cry to gain the advantage. 

Well yeah... Other than Diggle, Roy and Laurel shouldn't have stood a chance. And IDK how an LoA member didn't get to Felicity (maybe LL, JD, MM, Tatsu, RH were keeping them all occupied? Idk). Regardless, I was just talking about what Laurel Brown said in the round table regarding her believability as a superhero and how that only happened after Nyssa. It was still shoddy after Nyssa because of her fight with the LoA. I honestly can't believe LL would be able to fend 3 of them off at the same time after only 2-3 weeks of training w/ Nyssa. 

 

I like your idea better. Wish they did that instead. Unfortunately, I honestly feel like the writers don't really care for LL enough to actually think about how to make her arc more believable. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

To be fair, s3 was bad for every character concerned. I just think it's unfair when people focus only on Felicity and Olicity. It's like they're blind to the rest of the seasons' faults. 

 

All that being said, if the roundtable is on GATV, yes it's going to be biased. That's just fact at this point.

I did appreciate that the article is labeled "Opinion" and they make no pretense of not coming with opinions.  They do, lol, pretend they are offering well rounded opinions,  

Opinions are our own, and we try to have multiple folks participating so it doesn’t look one-sided.

 

And then bring in only one person not working for his sites, lol. 

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Guest

Guest

I did appreciate that the article is labeled "Opinion" and they make no pretense of not coming with opinions.  They do, lol, pretend they are offering well rounded opinions,  

 

Exactly. That's why I'm not really annoyed about it because it is just their opinion. It's not representative of everyone's feelings about s3. But if they continue to say that they're unbiased then that site does need to present a more well rounded viewpoint. Instead it looks like they just looked for people who thought the same way as them. Eh. Whatever. I really don't hold that site in high esteem anyway. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

LMAO They should've brought in Ryan McGee or Mo Ryan or Alan Sepinwall. That woudl've been an interesting roundtable

 

I'm trying to imagine actual respected and accomplished pro-critics participating in a glorified fansite's roundtable.

 

Nope. Can't picture it.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

Well, none of those people were hot on S3 either, and while I wouldn't say any of them "blamed" Felicity/Olicity per se, they did all have complaints about them. Mo and Ryan strayed into the "too much crying, not enough funny stuff" camp with Felicity, for example, and I know Ryan was at least temporarily off the O/F ship. The difference is that they (and critics of that level) tend to blame writing when things go south, versus just jumping to the idea that a character/relationship they used to like is suddenly inherently terrible and must be responsible for the failure of the whole season. On the other side, because I've followed their criticism for awhile, I know that none of them have been on-board with Laurel or Roy, since the beginning. They always noted that they couldn't really engage with those characters (Thea too, to a lesser extent). But they understood that the show would eventually have to do something to make them work, because they understand the realities of television as a business. My impression is that none of them were particularly impressed with the way the show tried to accomplish that this season either. They just seem to take a more holistic view of shows, and what is working and not working and why. I tend to ignore any "critics" of the show who don't do that, in any direction. Like, there are some Olicity-positive writers who are equally myopic about the show, and I have no interest in that either.

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tv echo

tv echo

For the most part the round table wasn't so terrible. Matt, the main Ksite reviewer still hates Felicity so I just ignored him for the most part. The only thing I felt the need to comment on (which I then did) was the continued assertion by Derek that Felicity was written as to only care about Oliver and was fine with risking the city. That I had to provide a counter point to.

Even if I agreed with this assertion (which I don't), I wonder if he was equally harsh about Barry being written as to only care about his mother and was fine with risking the universe.

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kismet

kismet

(edited)

That's a pretty decent list. ARROW is in good company. I'm not sure I agree with all the rankings, I might have numbered the shows a little differently, some were higher than I thought they should be an vice versa. But there are very few shows that I would knock off the list. All seemed to deserve a spot. There were a lot of groundbreaking shows in that list. In many ways, I feel like ARROW might have made the list because it was groundbreaking in how it told a comicbook hero's journey. It set the bar high and reopened a genre to be told on the smallscreen again in an interesting & authentic way.

 

@Velocity23 - Thanks for posting! I now feel better about some of my TV obsessions, since a lot of my all-time & current favorites were on that list.

Edited by kismet
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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

To some extent, no matter one's emotional reactions to various characters, etc., the show was just objectively nonsensical in S3.  I mean, a mayor of a major American city handed a whole section of the city over to a crime lord because he had city councillors' home addresses.  Total nonsense.  Oliver left one working parachute literally feet away from RAG when his whole plan was to kill RAG in a plane crash.  Idiotic.  Oliver lived through two major stab wounds and a fall from a significant height onto a rocky ledge because of penicillin tea.  Ridiculous.  Another superhero couldn't take a few hours out of his day to help save 500,000-ish people from a lethal virus because he had to have a "pointed conversation" with a villain, with no indication whatsoever that that conversation had to happen right now, rather than after he helped save half-a-million people from being murdered.  Insane.  It was a bad season of tv.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

JustAboutWrite is doing a month-long #CountdownToArrow series - some articles so far...

 

#CountdownToArrow #1 - A Great Big Kickoff Post
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/09/countdowntoarrow-1-great-big-kickoff.html

 

#CountdownToArrow: Ten Best Felicity Smoak Moments
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/09/best-felicity.html

 

#CountdownToArrow: 5 Times Diggle Was the Wisest Person in the Room
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/09/countdowntoarrow-5-times-diggle-was.html

 

#CountdownToArrow: In Memoriam (Gone, But Not Forgotten)
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2015/09/countdowntoarrow-in-memoriam-gone-but.html

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

In a recent Variety interview, DC Entertainment boss, Diane Nelson, had this to say in regard to DC's separation of its superhero movies from its superhero TV shows:

“We’re so talent driven,” Nelson said during the Q&A with Variety co-editor-in-chief Andrew Wallenstein. The focus on a single universe of characters with connected storylines “could end up handcuffing our creators into trying to work with the same storyline or force them to hold back characters or introduce certain characters. Ultimately it hinders the ability for someone like (showrunner) Bruno Heller to come in and create ‘Gotham.’ “

 

I find this ironic, considering what they've done with the connected TV universe of DC superheroes (Arrow, Flash, LoT) - the forced introduction of Ray into Arrow last season, the awkward cameos of Oliver and Barry in each other's show at the end of last season, even the awkward timing of O&F's appearance on Vixen, and who knows what's coming next season with the ramp-up to LoT's launch. It's also contradictory to the fact(?) that they prevented the TV shows from using certain DC characters because of the movies.

Edited by tv echo
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